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Geek Culture / Software for object oriented design

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 10:11
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I am contemplating a new project which is the result of two previous projects which were both similar, but both failed because of lack of media. My new ideas will hopefully dispel this problem.

I want to make extensive designs of my game and figuring everything out before I even start coding. Does any body know of a software package that is good for flow charts and stuff like that, but also has areas for you to add notes and drawings in, so you can effectively keep your design in one package?

Mnemonix
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 12:14
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You see this? It's a brilliant thing called paper. It does exactly what you want.

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Fallout
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 12:21
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That above may seem really sarcastic, but I personally agree. I don't have any suggestions for you, because I've always found brainstorming and designing on paper is by far the best way. Then a word processor and drawing package is all I need to pull it all together into one design document. Let us know if you find anything cool though.

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Van B
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 12:31
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Excel. It's the single most useful application ever. You can organize and compartmentalize your data, statistics, plot lines, storyboards, etc etc etc. Plus it's full of math functions, drawing functions, flow charts, and it has VBA behind it. I use it for a lot, everything from organising types to working out the order I need to put game levels in, based on difficulty, lives taken, etc etc.

There is no other single package that can do all this, it can do practically everything you'd need. I even use it to make printouts for sketching character concepts - I take a basic human template, get it setup with information fields you need, statistics if you like - then print out loads, and you can just fill these sheets in and sketch out a character design. It provided the sort of toolset easily, that professionals would be proud of.

So, if you want to get organized with any project, get Excel. Ohh, and running it on a laptop instead of your work PC is just peachy - it's such an efficient way to work.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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BearCDP
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 16:40
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Seconded for Excel/spreadsheets in general. Though Excel definitely takes the cake.

If you want a UML program, StarUML is pretty good for being free.
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David R
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 17:18
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Visio

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Grandma
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 18:37 Edited at: 28th Oct 2009 18:38
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I lie on the bed and sketch different designs and ideas on paper.
Keeping myself away from the computer helps me focus a lot better.
So I would vote for pencil and paper.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 20:21
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I also vote for pencil and paper. Even though I've never attempted to program it, I sketched a level or two for a Mario fan game that I wanted to make (original, no?). I was evil...the level would have been impossible to complete!

Hmm...maybe I'll do that just for grins.

But yeah. Pencil and paper are the two most powerful objects that mankind invented. Use them cautiously.

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd, Oct 28th 2009
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n008
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 20:37
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I always write everything on paper and then type it up for the sole purpose of being able to hit Ctrl-F and find what I need quickly.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 21:11
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I'm going away for a few days tomorrow, and I was out today and I bought a big A4 notebook that has color coded sections. I figured doing it on paper away from any PC for a few days would be the best way to do it(no distractions from el internet ).

Thanks for the suggestions offered. I had considered excel for doing flow charts and other kinds of related diagrams.

Mnemonix
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Mistrel
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 21:13 Edited at: 28th Oct 2009 21:16
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I like Argo UML:
http://argouml.tigris.org

It's a UML diagramming tool though which is similar to flow charts.

Flow charts are really only pertinent to procedural programming. For OO design you want UML class, activity, and sequence diagrams.

Quote: "There is no other single package that can do all this"


Excel for diagrams? You do know that there are specialty packages for this.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 21:45
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Yea when i said flow charts I meant UML style class diagrams, I just call them all flow charts because when I learnt them thats what I was taught

Mnemonix
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 22:37
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I second Visio.


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demons breath
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 03:41
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I back up paper. It's easy to install, use, and if it all goes wrong, you can set fire to it. How good's that?

"The fools may crash down upon us in thunderous waves, but we shall Jeku slap them back from whence they came"
-BiggAdd Oct 28th 2009
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 10:48
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For diagrams yes Mistrel, but for all the other aspects your left with using more than one package. Excel is an excellent all rounder, and personally I prefer just shifting cells about and formatting to using Visio. Visio can make diagrams, but can it do everything that Excel can, can it do a fraction of what Excel can?

No.


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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 17:33
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Excel and Visio are totally incomparable. Microsoft Word can do a lot of things Excel can't do, doesn't mean you should use Word for making spreadsheets. And the same is said for Excel. Visio was made for diagramming and outlining object-oriented concepts, among other things. It doesn't do spreadsheets, but Excel wasn't meant for UML design either.


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Van B
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 18:33
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Flow charts, diagrams etc are only part of the issue. If you add in the extra necessities of a thorough game design it falls short. Excel provides a neat and combined solution for any aspect - it might not be ideal for diagrams, but it makes up for that in other areas. The main benefit in Excel though IMO is that it's quick and easy to organise things, to do lists, pretty much any type of data you need. For example, if you wanted to break your diagram down into psuedo code, functions etc, then that's just easier to do in a spreadsheet than anything else.


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 18:45
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Really... to each their own. When I'm laying out a project, I tend to use a pen and paper approach. As things start to come together, I start organizing better in Excel. I don't have Visio (and can't be bothered to learn yet another package) so if I NEED diagrams/flowcharts, I usually use AutoCAD (since I'm rediculously fast with it).
This is what works best for me. If some others tried this same method, they would probably call me crazy. If I tried their method, I'd call them the same.


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 19:08
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I always preferred the "kamikaze programmer" approach... meh.

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crispex
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 04:35
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Microsoft Visio. I use it for presentations all the time. Many people don't know about Visio simply because it's really for professional office use and is rather expensive. However, it really pays off. Excel is decent, but I find Excel to work more in the statistics and tracking area.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 1st Nov 2009 19:18
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For OO design, I too would say Visio. It has tons of add-on packages for building all sorts of designs, not just UML diagrams. For instance, we used it to build rooms and layout bodies and evidence; i was a forensics major.

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optical r
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Posted: 1st Nov 2009 21:57
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I would have to agree that Visio is the best for structuring program flow - I'm' mainly referring to sequence diagrams here. However, it can be a little unintuitive in places I feel, but scalable for different areas of UML design


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ionstream
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Posted: 1st Nov 2009 23:10
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Pen and paper is only good in the very beginning of a project. Later on not so much, unless your project is very small and you like constantly scratching out and rewriting things. If it's slightly larger, Visio.

I'm pretty interested in how you guys get spreadsheets to help you organize your project, would you mind going over the process?

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David R
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Posted: 1st Nov 2009 23:31
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I'm guessing that the Excel users are purely DBP coders / not using OOP. Or at least, I can't imagine Excel being very good at all for more complex program flow

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 01:21
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Also Visio will export the objects to C# classes and function stubs, which has been useful before.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 05:29
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Quote: "I'm guessing that the Excel users are purely DBP coders / not using OOP. Or at least, I can't imagine Excel being very good at all for more complex program flow"


You'd be surprised what I've seen some guys do with Excel. It's more powerful than you think.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 20:40
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I wrote a 3d renderer in excel


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thenerd
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2009 22:01
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I say a good ol' piece of graph paper.


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David R
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 00:12
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Quote: "I wrote a 3d renderer in excel"


Have you seen the one covered on gamasutra? That was impressive!

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Yearcut
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 13:42
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Paper - The Best

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