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Geek Culture / Do "serious" video game players really have fun?

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Lonnehart
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 09:02 Edited at: 18th Nov 2009 09:03
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Inspired by this TV Tropes page.

TV Tropes: Stop Having Fun Guys

I take it these are the people I meet in the WoW game who tell me my priest points setup is TOTALLY WRONG, I don't have the exact gear for my level, I'm not playing him the way he's supposed to be played, I'm not supposed to be a solo player as a priest, etc...

Or when playing a single player game the guy watching me tells me I'm not playing it the "proper" way, even though the game is the type where you can do whatever you want within the limits of the game world.

Do these people really have fun playing the game, or have they gotten so immersed in it that the game is like another life to them? It's got me pretty curious now. I consider myself a "casual" player since I don't devote more than 2 hours a day to play games and all I want to do is have fun. I hope everyone in this forum plays games to have fun as well.

And please... no flames or insults or stuff like that. I say this because something tells me it could become that kind of thread.

In the beginning there was nothing. There'll be nothing in the end...
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Aertic
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 09:18 Edited at: 18th Nov 2009 09:18
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I only play public or Quake/Warsow for fun, but when I'm in a mix, it's more like shouting at the team, ACROSS THE FLIPPING COUNTRY(I play with norwegians and swedish people, and sometimes english/british :3)

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Thraxas
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 09:20
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I agree with you in that I enjoy playing the games I want to play them. I also found with WoW I would be ridiculed because of my 'build'. I'd get kicked out of groups because my gear wasn't good enough etc. BUT yes they are enjoying playing the game they want to play it.

My fiancée's brother is one of these WoW elitists and he LOVES playing the game.


It's like the people who get enjoyment from getting all the achievements/trophies in a game. I don't play games to get the achievements (I only have 1 game for which I have the full gamerscore) but people who do are having fun so it's all good.

And while I don't play for achievements, my "Demon on Wheels" from Trials HD (The Player has completed all Extreme tracks) is one I worked hard to get, and am quite proud of. Those tracks were HARD.
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Van B
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 10:09
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I can testify to that Thraxas, that game just gets insane later on.

I just don't play WoW, I did, I have a level 35 hunter, but now that the quirky missions are all out of the way, it just seems kinda pointless. I don't even care about guilds and stuff, I'd rather solo a quest than follow someone around it. I only ever join groups where I'm the most powerful character and it's usually just for grinding and helping out. It's like people start out WoW and enjoy the game, then their character get's to a point where it's detrimental to not have the right gear. At which point the game looses half it's charm. I enjoyed WoW while it was localized, I had a little area to grind in and help noobs, I'd actually enjoy exploring it - now I have to run around the Barrens and places like that - it's just bloody tedious. Those big expansive deserts in WoW ruin the game, nobody wants to tredge through all that openness, it just feels like filler to me.

People should be allowed to play the game that they paid and maybe still pay for, anyway they see fit. If I want to wander around aimlessly, then that's perfectly fine - I might be going for an 'hours spent wandering pointlessly' award, I often wander around pointlessly in real life - so in an RPG, that should be an option. But WoW is so far removed from actual RPG's once you get to the halfway stage - the minute you can't wear something that just looks cool, because it drags your character down, well I'll go play something less communist.

In Fallout3 I wear the hat of the people, a home made ghoul mask, and some Chinese stealth armor. It probably offers little real damage protection, but I have increased small gun skills, ghouls ignore me, and when I duck I go invisible. I'm getting to play the game I paid for, the way I want to play it - and sadly that's probably because it's not an online game. When you have uber-geeks pointing and laughing at your WoW character, well you have to ask yourself if WoW is a game you truly enjoy, or just a habit.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 13:13
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@Lonnehart

Don't worry. You're just showing yourself to be a bit more rounded then these hardcore gamer fools. They take it very seriously, because it's all they are good at. To them you're a rookie in their domain. Take them into the real world and ask them to talk to a girl, and they'll crumble like a really crumbly apple crumble.

So the answer is yes, they are having fun, but they are losers, so who cares?

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Peter H
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 13:32
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I wish there was a middle ground between fallout 3 and WoW... fallout 3 is awesome, but there is nobody to show off your awesome character to.

WoW is loads of fun for the first 15 levels (maybe even the first 25). After that it just gets more and more boring until you get to 80... oh wait, it doesn't get better, you just grind for equipment. or for equipment to give to your guildies. oh and raids are probably the most boring thing i ever participated in... wait around for 1 or 2 hours for everyone to FINALLY be ready, then run in and mob the... mobs... do death. There is no sense of accomplishment. Hence why i usually soloed stuff.

ANYWAY, i got to level 68 or so before i finally realized that it wasn't going to get any better. It really is a waste of time perpetuated by the lie that other people actually care how good your character/equipment are...

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 13:37
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I have friends who are WoW fans...we mock them for it. They even have their own clan - they're kind of obsessed, but it seems they have 'fun' so to speak...but then I don't know I found WoW really boring, yet addictive (luckily it was only the 10-day trial, so I didn't need rehab to stop playing) so maybe stuff like WoW becomes an obsession and well, obsessions are a sure way to develop a form of OCD.

But hey - if there's a "proper" way to play a game, I say screw it! I'll do it my way. I'll level up exactly as I want - even if I'm a mage I'll add points to my strength.

Quote: "Take them into the real world and ask them to talk to a girl, and they'll crumble like a really crumbly apple crumble."



Yeah...except one of my WoW geek friends had 4...I say that again FOUR girls in his room last night - just to watch a movie and he's now on his 5th girlfriend since being at University...I say it again FIFTH! The man's a geekish love-machine. It must be his accent.

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Peter H
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 13:42
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Quote: "Yeah...except one of my WoW geek friends had 4...I say that again FOUR girls in his room last night - just to watch a movie and he's now on his 5th girlfriend since being at University...I say it again FIFTH! The man's a geekish love-machine. It must be his accent."

Yeah it's definitely not a stereotype that applies to everyone...

but that doesn't make WoW any less of a pointless waste of time lol. I agree that it's definitely somewhat addictive, but it's not THAT addictive. People still have a choice, and most of the time it's not that they can't stop, it's just that they've chosen to spend their time on WoW.

Which means that if someone suddenly finds it boring (as many have lol) it's not that hard to stop.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 14:20 Edited at: 18th Nov 2009 14:20
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Nope - another one to break the stereotype:

Mila Kunis (Voice of Meg Griffin) has admitted to loving and playing WoW...she stopped using voice chat because people were recognising her.




Quote: "but that doesn't make WoW any less of a pointless waste of time lol. I agree that it's definitely somewhat addictive, but it's not THAT addictive. People still have a choice, and most of the time it's not that they can't stop, it's just that they've chosen to spend their time on WoW."


That is true - though I suppose it might be a semi-social thing to chill out to, like visiting a chat room or a message board like this one...except you go on quests. I can't really seeing it fulfulling my enjoyment as a gamer, then again I've only played MMORPGs with the purpose of playing a game - so I don't talk to people, I don't get involved with friends - I just follow the quests, which becomes quite boring. Though I like the idea of a mid-point of Fallout 3 (or Oblivion) and WoW because Fallout 3 and Oblvion both are quite open and non-linear much like an MMORPG, but it there's plenty to the games to make them entertaining enough to play for hours on end and still offer new things.

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Keo C
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 16:49
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Quote: "but that doesn't make WoW any less of a pointless waste of time "


Which could probably be applied to gaming in general, unless you have a job as a play tester or something.


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zeroSlave
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 17:28
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Quote: "(Voice of Meg Griffin)"
Quote: ""Thats what we call a manatee, or in nautical terms,...a sea cow""




I think a lot of it also has to do with the challenge and the anticipation of the eventual success of completing something or even simply becoming better at it.

I can remember attempting to beat the Evil Wall and Baigan in FF2 and having to replay the battles countless times (and even leaving and leveling up to stand a chance!) Not really fun, and more frustrating than anything, but I knew that when they were defeated, the sense of accomplishment and the rewards provided(e.g. Gold, XP, story progression, etc.) would be enough payment to justify my repeated failures. And in the end I had a lot more fun discussing plots and story progression with friends that also played it.

I believe the same goes for many things. When I was learning to play various musical instruments, I was very frustrated and wanted to give up many times. But after many years of perseverance, the sense of accomplishment is a good feeling and I have a lot of fun making music with friends.

All in all, I find that the fun from life in general comes from the accomplishments earned rather than the challenges themselves.

There's something in this room that makes you can't speak well.
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 18:37
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I would guess that the people with a life, who play WoW, don't take it that seriously. They may well be leveling up left right and centre, and have bleeding eyes from late nights WoWing, but they probably don't get on their high horse when noobs come on with the wrong armour plated thong.

Again, I'm generalising, but that'd be my guess! If you are the sort of hardcore gamer who is obnoxious to inexperienced players, you're probably going to have similar traits in real life, and therefore you're probably a muppet.

And btw, Meg Griffin is FIT! That's a real surprise.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 18:39
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I don't think "hardcore" gamers have fun, it's like a drug to them.
I've recently started playing Oblivion again and I'm really enjoying taking it at a slower pace and shaping my character. I'm only just getting over the obsession with opening every container in the world just to see if there's a repair hammer in there.
I don't like online games because the other people rarely play the game the way I want to. For example I used to play an online 30's gangster-themed text game called Bootleggers, and while it was only text I still wanted to enter into the spirit of the setting and gave my character a mobster profile pic and even talked like I was a mobster.
Then you get people who have pictures of 50 cent or fantasy characters and names like nUmBa1_KiLLa which just ruins it for me.

I keep getting kicked out of Operation Flashpoint because I don't have a headset!

I don't like trophies; you shouldn't be rewarded for playing a game, the game should be it's own reward or what's the point in playing it?

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 19:02
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Wow is a grind fest for the top level and max loot, but I think the developers are starting to get better at solo experiences, or even controlled group quests. Their latest expansion shows it. The expanisive emptiness is gone, and quests are fun to complete. Not because you have to, but because you want to know what happens next. One example is that you actually get to play through scenarios from Warcraft III, which are fun to see as a foot soldiers point of view, not to mention seeing what happens after the cutscene ends in WIII.

Though in the end it still isn't for the casual player unfortunately. Heck, sometimes the only way to get into the high level groups is to 'link' you gear and your achievement to prove you've ran it before..I mean, wtf?? Luckily I'm in a guild with all my friends from here in the city.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 19:40
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I wish there was a straight medieval game (probably is but I haven't heard of one) all the magic and lizard people are a massive turn off for me. It seems lazy that they don't research actual history, I'm convinced this is because America doesn't have a medieval history so they aren't as interested in it. I'm just speculating here, don't type nasty things at me.

Quote: "Though in the end it still isn't for the casual player unfortunately"

That's what puts me off these games, I'll play for a week solid and get into it, then have a break and when I come back my character is really far behind or has been killed!
At least with Oblivion I can go at my own speed. It's kind of impossible to aim an RPG at casual gamers though, seeing as you gain points by doing stuff.

I don't play online games, how many people can be in the same place at once in WOW? Are we at the stage where you could have massive armies of players fighting in one huge battle?

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 19:44
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Quote: "I wish there was a straight medieval game"


Mount and Blade is the only one that springs to mind. But that centres on combat, and not much on role playing. Still highly recommended! In fact, I may install it again tonight and see if it miraculously runs on Windows 7.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 20:04
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@Fallout
isn't that an indie game? I think I've heard of it, looked pretty cool but I didn't think it was finished.

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 20:34 Edited at: 18th Nov 2009 20:36
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Yep. It's an Indie game. It has a slight feel of being incomplete, but it's been released as a complete game, and there are no glaring holes. It's dirt cheap too - £8 on DVD from Play.com. Some people claim the longevity isn't there, and after a while the gameplay becomes samey, but personally I got my £8 worth, and then some. Very cool combat. You never get tired of galloping full speed past someone on foot and hacking them down with a well timed sword swing.

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crispex
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 21:33
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Sorry, but I cannot stand WoW. It's the biggest waste of 15gb, not to mention the people at Blizzard are a bunch of idiots and don't care about the player they just care about the money.

I also hate how WoW players think they came up with all the funny sayings and memes online these days. Everyone knows they are only credited for the creation of the stupid "Leeroy Jenkins" character that stopped being funny after the first 3 days.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
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Keo C
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 21:53
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Quote: "Sorry, but I cannot stand WoW. It's the biggest waste of 15gb, not to mention the people at Blizzard are a bunch of idiots and don't care about the player they just care about the money."


We all know how Blizzard is always trying to force their crappy games like Starcraft and Diablo series on us.


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JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 22:10
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crispex: Not a very well thought out statment considering Blizzard is one of the most successful game company's in the industry. Let alone they've yet to release a game that didn't become a huge hit.

Don't like WoW, whatever, their games are still good whether you want to admit it or not.

Like I said before, they are improving the way people can play WoW, which is good for casual players. You have to remember they practically defined what a MMO is suppose to be like when they first released it.

OBese87: One of their battle grounds is 40players vs 40 players. Quite fun actually, well if you high leveled at least. Anything below lvl 80 and your hit with dang twinks...blah.


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Keo C
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 22:13
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Quote: "OBese87: One of their battle grounds is 40players vs 40 players. Quite fun actually, well if you high leveled at least. Anything below lvl 80 and your hit with dang twinks...blah."


A few patches ago, Blizzard killed the twinks being able to destroy people.

WoW is actually quite good for people who are casual gamers now. You merely level to max level (in this case, 80) and play for 3-4 hours a week.


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lazerus
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Posted: 18th Nov 2009 22:19
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Quote: "'hours spent wandering pointlessly' award'"


I do that, alot.

WoW (10 day trial), runescape(lvl 83, about 6yrs ago) and the like used to be my love, still are really, but i dont need another addiction right now.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Sigh
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Honestly...I don't think so, unless you consider spending your life behind a computer screen fun.

Most of the hardcore Wow players I know at work, and there are many, aren't exactly the most sociable people. Same goes for the people that play games all day and night. Games are fun, but I'd rather be out working on my property cutting down a tree, tending my vegetables, etc.

WoW was interesting until about lvl 60, when I was able to see all the areas, after that it was just a grind - either for gear or XP *me falls asleep just thinking about it*

Keep your Hope & Change to yourself, I choose Liberty! Stop by for a chat! [IXE]Nateholio on irc.maxgaming.net:6667 #GarageGames
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 03:44 Edited at: 19th Nov 2009 03:46
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Quote: "Do "serious" video game players really have fun?"

Only when we are winning!

Quote: "Mila Kunis (Voice of Meg Griffin) has admitted to loving and playing WoW...she stopped using voice chat because people were recognising her. "

Wasn't that the whole point of becoming famous? (unless she's all about the money) She is cute enough that I have to forgive her though.

I never liked WoW.
-         -

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demons breath
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 03:50
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Quote: "Wasn't that the whole point of becoming famous? (unless she's all about the money)"

Because as we all know, the only two reasons to go into a creative job are fame and money.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 04:03 Edited at: 19th Nov 2009 04:04
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Quote: "And btw, Meg Griffin is FIT! That's a real surprise."


I know, that was my reaction...and well, watch Forgetting Sarah Marshall...the main character in that is a pretty unappealing guy - an inbetweener and they get together...to any inbetweeners, it's one of those movies to make you jealous, yet hopeful.

Still...last week when at a friends leaving party, I realised that we had a Meg Griffin in our group...seriously...she even looks like her. Odd...not Mila Kunis sadly.

Quote: "They may well be leveling up left right and centre, and have bleeding eyes from late nights WoWing, but they probably don't get on their high horse when noobs come on with the wrong armour plated thong."


That is true...even if I can't get the image of armour plated thongs out of my head...thank you, thank you very much. At least it's not WoW geeks in...well anyway!

I'm glad I've not played enough MMORPGs to meet the sort and I've probably not met the stereotype in the real world...then again it's possible that I have, just that I've noticed "hardcore" tattooed to their forehead and was wise enough to avoid finding out their specialism, whether it be anime, computers, games, fan-fiction or Star Trek. Except maybe the fan fiction guy...I wanted to strangle him and I'm a pacifist (to a degree).

I think we can generally agree that hardcore fan-boys are generally a bad thing in all geek walks of life.

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Peter H
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 04:26
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I do have to give props to WoW for not being nearly as hardcore as Everquest...

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 10:57
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Quote: "That is true...even if I can't get the image of armour plated thongs out of my head...thank you, thank you very much. At least it's not WoW geeks in...well anyway!"


Sep: You've never seen WoW cosplayers have yah? Oh the things they wear! *Eyes shutter*


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Aertic
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 17:32
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If anyone wants I can testify about my lifetime/diary of playing Counter-Strike competitively.
(YES... MORE COUNTER-STRIKE NONSENSE THAT WE DON'T REQUIRE).

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 20:14
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Quote: "Do "serious" video game players really have fun?"

Fun is subjective. If someone is really serious about something, gaming included, they likely find a purpose and fulfillment in it. Fun isn't serious.


Download the game!
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 20:27
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[quote Oh the things they wear! *Eyes shutter*[/quote]

Please, no, there's children aboard for goodness sakes.

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zeroSlave
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 20:47 Edited at: 19th Nov 2009 20:58
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Quote: "Oh the things they wear! *Eyes shutter*"





I agree!
...
Would be awesome to wear around town. Should be a Mega64 vid.

There's something in this room that makes you can't speak well.

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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Nov 2009 21:38
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That picture says it all. Put me out of my misery.

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Dia
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I played wow for a couple of years. We had a fairly big guild and were doing all of the raid instances, but to be honest, wow got dumbed down (A LOT) so that pretty much everyone was able to experience all of the end game content, rather than just those who worked at it.

Speaking of 'worked at it' wow eventually just became too much like a second job, that I had to pay FOR instead of being paid to do
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