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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] A.D.D. & Programming: Who's a victim?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 22:48
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I'm bored, so I thought I'd try and start an interesting topic for us all to discuss.

Recently I've realized that part of my inability to ever finish a coding project or even learn more about programming is attributed to my A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder). I'm not quite as bad as some people, but when it comes to trying to remain focused on a project or learning, my brain likes to wander. It's really quite frustrating at times.

I also recently discovered that listening to music while programming seems to help me remain focused. Why this is true, I have absolutely no idea, but I'm willing to accept it. The only problem then is that with my earphones in, I usually can't hear my family talking to me, which sometimes ends up in arguments and misunderstandings. So now I keep the volume low and don't wedge my earphones in as far as I do when I'm listening to music in the car.


Also, somewhat un-related to this thread but definitely worth mentioning is losing ambition to finish a project. I know this has been discussed in at least two other threads the last couple of years, but it's something I think a lot of us encounter on a disturbingly regular basis (at least I do). I have also attributed this to my A.D.D., because I really only ever lose ambition when I find something else I'd like to do. For example, one time I was working on building a castle from scratch with boxes in DarkBASIC, but I got sidetracked with learning how to light map my levels, and then that somehow led to me learning how to create textures for games, which led to making my first somewhat complete game "Coins Galore" for NaGaCreMo '09, and that led to...



...see what I mean? I just seem to get easily sidetracked a lot of times while working on a project!

So, the main point of this thread was to ask if anybody else thinks that A.D.D. my lead to losing ambition to finish a project. For me, the answer is "yes!", but for you it could be quite different.

I'm going to take some steps to sort all of this out. From now on, I'm always going to finish the story of a game first before I do any of the coding. Once I have that done, I'll work on the technical things and get the skeleton of the program to function. Then it's on to the graphics and such. What steps do you take to finish a project?

C#? Yes, please!
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Monk
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:06 Edited at: 25th Nov 2009 23:08
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I find I start stuff that's too ambitious, thus I often encounter bits I don't understand, and therefore spend aaages figuring it all out =)

It'll all come together one day

I find that if I listen to music, I tend to daydream and start singing along, none of which is conducive to work! And also, pc games are a bad distraction, and birthdays, parties, cake... you get my problem

Its not a bad problem as such, I have a lot of fun, I just get nothing done

Maybe I just need to exercise some will power...

Edit: I do find that stuff is more likely to be done if its right in front of me as a constant reminder.
This worked with post-it notes until I started ignoring them, but now I try to shift stuff around my desk so that the important stuff catches my eye, and then its got a better chance of being done

Monk

My blog thing =)
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Dextro
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:23
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I have the same problem, but I found that nicotine does the trick.
I won't tell you to start smoking, you might be a minor, but the logic behind it, is that stimulants help the ADD brain to focus better. A natural alternative to caffeine/nicotine/any other stimulant, are vitamins from the B complex.
The synthesis of the B complex can be accelerated by taurine, although the combination of caffeine and taurine is not quite good (lots of oxidation, free radicals, etc).
Instead of consuming energy drinks all day (which, unfortunately I LOVE), you can just take some complex B vits (either orally of injected), with some pills of gingseng (which you can find in any GNC).
You must only be careful not to exceed yourself on those, since the complex B is known to be hard on the liver.
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Lonnehart
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:38
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I don't know if this is on the same lines as A.D.D., but every time I do something I find interesting I fall asleep. So if I want to focus on something I have to be really bored with it, but then there's no motivation for doing something boring. O_O

In the beginning there was nothing. There'll be nothing in the end...
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:41
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I think what causes my A.D.D. is that I get easily frustrated when I can't figure something out. Sometimes when I'm writing a simple program (usually a test of sorts for game ideas), I'll encounter a problem and just not want to deal with it. So I'll start doing something else until I feel ready to tackle it, and then I'll find out it was just a mis-typed variable. All of that time wasted!

I've just got to learn to persevere, no matter what!

Another thing that will help I think is to cut down on when I have my internets going. A lot of times, even when I'm trying to study programming, I'll end up on facebook and quickly forget what I was doing. It's another reason why I want to get books on C# and XNA, so that I can study the language without having to have my browser open.

C#? Yes, please!
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Sigh
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:42 Edited at: 25th Nov 2009 23:43
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Honestly, I think ADD is just an excuse people come up with (both from the medical establishment, to sell drugs, and individuals, to have an excuse why they can't pay attention).

I would say I have ADD, but can't because, well, see my opinion above. I just have too many things going on at once - CPU design, game design, woodworking, drawing, writing, studying history & politics...and the list goes on.

I do notice that I can concentrate better if I have music though.

Keep your Hope & Change to yourself, I choose Liberty! Stop by for a chat! [IXE]Nateholio on irc.maxgaming.net:6667 #GarageGames
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MSon
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:44
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i've always had problems with my concentration ever since i was a young kid, it use to get me in trubble all the time, as for when im programming i find that after a while i just tend to stair at the screen after forgetting what i was doing.

i dont condone it, but when i was about 18 i use to smoke a lot of **** and found it left me fixated at what i was doing, i could stay at the computer for hours and hours at a time without noticing it, then i'de look up and i'd notice i had typed a few hundred lines of code without testing it, as i said, i dont condone it, but i did some of my best programming whalst in that state.

I cant listen to music or anything like that whilst programming as i just get distracted too easily.

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Lonnehart
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:44
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Everyone has something that helps them concentrate. For me, it would be coffee... several cups of it. Too bad I'm out of coffee right now.

In the beginning there was nothing. There'll be nothing in the end...
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:49 Edited at: 25th Nov 2009 23:51
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I can see why you would say that, Sigh. I think a lot of people do use it as an excuse, but I also think that for others it's quite the opposite. I fall in that category, because I love the idea of programming. I just can't stay focused for more than twenty minutes at a time or so, unless I'm making huge progress in the project.

EDIT:

Lonnehart, I am the same way with coffee (hence my new name!). It can help me focus, but not always. When it does help though, I feel great.

C#? Yes, please!
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:52
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I can identify with a lot of the problems you attribute to your ADD. I too easily become sidetracked when working on something or reading etc., losing ambition when working on something because another project seems more interesting (which has led to some bouncing back and forth between different projects). I have not, however, been diagnosed with ADD, and have never had trouble learning or concentrating if I really set my mind to it, and if the subject is at least somewhat interesting to me. Nonetheless I just went ahead and took some test on psychcentral.com, and the result was kind of interesting:

Quote: "You scored a total of 40 (of 100, I assume)


You appear to suffer from mild attention and concentration difficulties according to your responses to this self-report questionnaire. You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment. However, you may want to look into seeking further consultation with a trained mental health professional if you are experiencing any difficulties in daily functioning due to these difficulties or if you'd like a more in-depth answer."


I wont attach great importance to this pseudo-diagnose, but perhaps I can use it as an excuse later on when I find stuff boring

(Ps. I would never fake a disorder just for the sake of it, though!)

"If making games is a hobby for you then it's not about the tools you use to make the game, but the games you produce with the tools you have." - Jeku
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MSon
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 23:52
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Turn off the TV\Music and Every thinng, get a fresh coffie maker and set it up next to your PC, and i garrantee you will get much further in your programming

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Sigh
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:00
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ADD may not be an "excuse" per se, but when you look at everything we have to do in modern times, it's a bit obvious. You can have many things going on at once, kinda an information "overload". Case in point, I have 23 programs open right now on my laptop, 9 on my desktop, and another 7 on my big laptop. Almost all of those on the computers are for working on various projects.

Keep your Hope & Change to yourself, I choose Liberty! Stop by for a chat! [IXE]Nateholio on irc.maxgaming.net:6667 #GarageGames
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MSon
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:01 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 00:02
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Quote: "Results of your
Attention Deficit Disorder Quiz
You scored a total of 65

You appear to be suffering from a moderate amount of attention and concentration difficulties according to your responses to this self-report questionnaire. You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment. However, it would be advisable and likely beneficial for you to seek further diagnosis from a trained mental health professional soon to rule out a possible attention disorder."


It says i need to talk to a trained mental health professional

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:03
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Quote: "It says i need to talk to a mental health worker"


Who doesn't these days?

C#? Yes, please!
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:08
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Quote: "Results of your
Attention Deficit Disorder Quiz

You scored a total of 22

You have answered this self-report questionnaire in such a way as to suggest that you do not likely currently suffer from an attention deficit disorder. You should not take this as a diagnosis or recommendation for treatment in any way, though. "


But... but... I get distracted! Ritalin plzKthxbai

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MSon
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:16
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i dont trust that site, i picked a different quiz, and scored even worse

Quote: "Results of your
Autism / Asperger's Screening Quiz
You scored a total of 32

Based upon your responses to this autism screening measure, it appears that you may be suffering from an autism spectrum disorder, or Asperger's disorder. People who score similarly often qualify for a diagnosis of autism or Asperger's.

People with an autism spectrum disorder often suffer from severe and sustained impairment in social interaction and the development of restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, and activities. The disturbance must cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment. However, if would be advisable and likely beneficial for you to seek further diagnosis from a trained mental health professional soon to rule out a possible anxiety disorder."


Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Lonnehart
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:26 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 00:27
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Quote: "
Results of your
Attention Deficit Disorder Quiz

You scored a total of 79

It is highly likely that you are presently suffering from adult attention deficit disorder, according to your responses on this self-report questionnaire. You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment. However, it would be advisable and likely beneficial for you to seek further diagnosis from a trained mental health professional immediately.
"


Y-yeah... I really houldn't trust a quiz like this. After all, it's not really a diagnostic tool, right? RIGHT???

In the beginning there was nothing. There'll be nothing in the end...
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Dextro
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:30
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Quote: "Honestly, I think ADD is just an excuse people come up with (both from the medical establishment, to sell drugs, and individuals, to have an excuse why they can't pay attention).

I would say I have ADD, but can't because, well, see my opinion above. I just have too many things going on at once - CPU design, game design, woodworking, drawing, writing, studying history & politics...and the list goes on.

I do notice that I can concentrate better if I have music though.
"


Well, if it's not being diagnosed using the adequate tools (EEG, observation from a professional, etc) and a multiaxial diagnosis, then it's certainly not adequate to diagnose ADD/ADHD.
However, people must take into consideration that since this is a neurological problem, it is possible to prove it's existence using physical examinations.
I agree ADD/ADHD is being over diagnosed. I work in the field (Medicine and just recently got my degree in Psychology), and the problem is that it's being diagnosed on people that do not present physical evidence (EEG), but a lot of people that should be diagnosed and treated, are not.
Basically, ADD/ADHD is becoming a way for crappy parents with poor values to explain the mishaps of their children, instead of the real deal of what ADD/ADHD is and how it affects people (not just "not finishing anything" or "doing badly at school", but the whole sphere (social, professional and emotional)).
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demons breath
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:39 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 00:46
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Quote: "Results of your
Attention Deficit Disorder Quiz
You scored a total of 74

It is highly likely that you are presently suffering from adult attention deficit disorder, according to your responses on this self-report questionnaire. You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment. However, it would be advisable and likely beneficial for you to seek further diagnosis from a trained mental health professional immediately."


Yes, it does have the immediately in bold.

I think it's a load of rubbish though. Some people genuinely do have it (the drummer in my old band had ADHD, OCD and Tourettes - he could be a little odd at times), but a lot of people get diagnosed because their parents are worried the kids aren't concentrating enough in school and suchlike when in reality it's laziness, or general lack of focus. I'm not saying that I don't think ADHD exists at all, it's just in the majority of cases (in my personal experience) it seems like an excuse... One of my best mates was diagnosed with it, but to be honest he was just a lazy chap... (not the first word which sprang to my head)

EDIT: On the other hand I tried another one
Quote: "Results of your
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder Screening


You scored a total of 18

Based upon your responses to this screening measure, you are most likely suffering from an obsessive-compulsive disorder. You can view symptoms and treatment options for this disorder. This is not a diagnosis, or a recommendation for treatment. However, it would be advisable and likely beneficial for you to seek a professional diagnosis from a trained mental health professional in your community immediately."

Unless I'm just suffering from a lot of things, I think the tests are easily thrown by little things.

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Deathcow
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:41
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Have you ever heard the saying “tidy desk leads to a tidy mind”. If that is the case I have ADD as I have allot of crap around my desk which does not help me when I’m working on any projects. If I clean my desk believe it or not I get allot more done. So the solution to your problem maybe allot simpler that you think.

DC

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:45
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Quote: "Have you ever heard the saying “tidy desk leads to a tidy mind”. If that is the case I have ADD as I have allot of crap around my desk which does not help me when I’m working on any projects. If I clean my desk believe it or not I get allot more done. So the solution to your problem maybe allot simpler that you think."


True. I don't have a desk of my own though, my laptop is currently sitting on my (messy) dining table. Perhaps that's not helping either...

C#? Yes, please!
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 00:52 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 00:53
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Okay, test results from that site should be taken with a grain of salt, it would appear. According to some other tests I have a depression, I'm manio-depressive, I have OCD and ADD, and probably more to boot, but I got bored with the tests (oh my, the ADD thing must be true then ).

A lot of people seem to think of ADD as merely and excuse, and to some extent they may be right. This might be the case with more disorders, and not just ADD. Many people today seem to be hypochondriacs, and see illness and disease everywhere. Some people do really suffer, and I mean suffer, from disorders like ADD, but others might take the term more lightly and label themselves as having a disorder, when in reality they're just somewhat easily distracted, or obsessive to a certain, but in no way harmful, degree (in the case of OCD).

"If making games is a hobby for you then it's not about the tools you use to make the game, but the games you produce with the tools you have." - Jeku
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MSon
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 01:15
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I took the big test they do, But i'd hardley agree with some of these.

Quote: "You have 8 serious concerns that we've identified. Generally such concerns should be checked out with a mental health professional as soon as you can. You can find a mental health professional within your local community through your insurance provider or through an online therapist directory. Get help immediately if these concerns are overwhelming or you feel your health or safety is at risk.
General Coping
Anxiety
Phobias
Self-Esteem
Smoking
Technology Issues
Obsessions & Compulsions
Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

You have 8 milder concerns that we've identified. Such concerns may be a part of an ordinary person's usual up's and down's in life. However, if any of these issues cause you worry or concern, please consult with your physician or a mental health professional for further information
Life Events
Depression
Eating Disorders
Schizophrenia
Dissociation
Mania & Bipolar Disorder
Relationship Issues
Borderline Traits"


I must be one very sick guy

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 02:01
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I've not been professionally diagnosed with A.D.D., honestly. My dad was though (but it's not severe), so it's a pretty safe bet that I do have a bit of it. I suspect it because of my lack of focus at times, as I've stated in my first post. I've never really "suffered" from it though.


Something that really, really helped me last year was NaGaCreMo (interNational Game Creation Month). I think it should become an annual event on the forums, as it definitely motivates people to complete a project. The original person who started it (zenassem was his name) seems to have disappeared, but that doesn't mean we can't still hold the event. The original thread can be found here.

Unfortunately, none of TGC's products seems to work on my laptop, so if we do hold NaGaCreMo again, I won't be able to participate (unless I suddenly become an expert on programming in C# and XNA). Still, I think we should definitely consider doing it again.

Who's with me?

C#? Yes, please!
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demons breath
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 02:23 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 02:25
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I'm definitely up for the NaGaCreMo idea if it crops up again.

And a lot of people get distracted easily, it doesn't necessarily mean you have ADD - I have a terrible concentration span but I don't think it's anything near that... Any of these things (ADHD, OCD etc.) are only really problems when it starts to have a severe impact on your life. It's like saying that I have OCD just because I do things like put people's DVDs/CDs/games in alphabetical order and have little rules about doing things. It has very little effect on my life, so even though there are slight similarities in my behaviour and that of someone with OCD I know it's nowhere near comparable to people I've known who, for example, regularly turned up 2 hours late to anything because they couldn't leave their flat unless it was spotless.


EDIT: And this is also an interesting idea http://drwolffe.blogspot.com/2009/04/adhd-is-adhd-inherited.html It suggests an idea why, if your dad had ADD, you might share some similar traits...

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 03:57
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Interesting article. Makes me want to practice structured discipline so that I don't mess up if/when I become a father.

I hope more people will be up for NaGaCreMo as well. It was a lot of fun, and people who entered last time are still developing their games, and they're doing great. It definitely gave people the motivation they needed to complete a project!

I like me some coffee.
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 05:50
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I used to be the same way until I came up with my own method for getting over it. Whenever Im programming something new, I start a comment section in the code where I brain storm EVERYTHING Im thinking of on how Im going to accomplish my next task, and what it will allow me to do next. Literally every thought that comes to me head gets written down until I work out the final route Im going to take to get the feature implemented. There are pages and pages of my brain storms inside my code showing my entire thought process, problems I expect to encounter, how Ill overcome them, etc.

In the end I have a perfect sollution to my next programming task that I just need to convert to code. It really helps because now there is a set plan in place that you can work through and rate your progress based on how far through the plan you've gone.

When I've implemented the feature, I get the excitement back again because now I know Im onto something else in the program that will get it nearer to completion. The best part is, you can take breaks for months at a time if you want, and always come back and read your through process to get back into how you were going about what you were doing.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 06:41 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 06:42
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@RUCCUS:

I like that idea, although I think I'd modify it and write everything up in a separate text file than actually write it into my source code (though knowing me, the source code would change enough times and be revised in new files that it wouldn't necessarily matter). It's a good idea, I think I'll start doing just that.


I think another thing that would help a person is to keep track of progress in a personal blog or journal, or if you really want to be motivated, a public blog would be even better. That way people can post encouraging comments and be like "dude, I can't wait to see this get finished!". It would be sort of like the WIP Boards, but with a more personal feel to it. I think I'll do that as well.

I like me some coffee.
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 13:26
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Personal blogs are great especially when other people are viewing and commenting, but I find the best way to get that encouragement started is by getting the program/game to a usable level first, and then making the blog / telling people about it. It will catch more people's interest at once and make them want to come check back on the work every so often, whereas if you start the blog with a cube walking around on a matrix people will lose interest quickly (if they had any to begin with) and you'll find anyone that was viewing it initially will have stopped completely.

This is the issue with most WIPs on the WIP board (always has been). People post up a WIP with barely anything to show other than an idea and a few screen shots of them controlling their model with the arrow keys. People might like the idea, but because there's no "wow" factor the views drop to zero almost immediately, even if new progress is posted. People always look at the thread title and remember "oh, that was the boring post with nothing to show, there's probably not much done still".

Thats why I've been working on my current project for almost 2 years now and haven't posted / told anyone about it . I want to come out with a big bang all at once.
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Xarshi
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 15:41
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Just break down your tasks in your head. People oftentimes think of an engine on a large scale (I even think engines are a little much for anyone though). Every task will lead up to a larger task, and it is your job to focus on it one step at a time. Oftentimes if one is facing a large task they will get set astray because of the intimidation factor. Programming is just a set of tasks encapsulated in the idea of a working program.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 16:15 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 16:22
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Avoidable things that ruin projects:

1. Being too ambitious / trying to make the most super game ever combining every game you've ever played
2. Working on more than one project at a time
3. Forum trolling instead of working
4. Inadequate planning - causes you to have to do major reworks in the middle of a project

Also, I'm never going to post a WIP again until I have a playable demo. Posting it too soon can get a lot of attention but interest will die off before the project is done.

Competitions with deadlines are a great way to finish games. The lesson here is that we should impose deadlines of our own for our projects. Use competition deadlines as a guideline.

If you have a short attention span you have to give yourself smaller projects. Finishing a nice game of pong and having people play it is more satisfying than trying to undertake a huge game that is impossible to finish and failing. Though you may learn from your mistakes you'll never experience releasing a completed game.


Download the game!
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 18:38 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 18:38
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Quote: "People post up a WIP with barely anything to show other than an idea and a few screen shots of them controlling their model with the arrow keys. People might like the idea, but because there's no "wow" factor the views drop to zero almost immediately, even if new progress is posted. People always look at the thread title and remember "oh, that was the boring post with nothing to show, there's probably not much done still"."



Yeah, I learned that lesson the hard way a couple of years ago. All I had were a few textured cubes and a sphere with a marble texture; I barely even knew how to do anything in DarkBASIC yet! As a result, that thread died off almost instantly. I think it only got 20 views or something like that...oh well. Lesson learned!

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 21:54
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Cash is definitely right about taking on prokects you can manage as well. Your goals depend on your skill level. For me, I might consider incorperating a physics engine onto all of my game objects a single task, because I know I can accomplish it in roughly a week, and I know what Im going to have to encounter as I work through it. At the same time something like a physics engine for a newcommer could be the equivalent of months of trial and error, making it an unrealistic goal. They should insteat break it up into smaller goals that they too can accomplish in a week,

week 1: experiment with dark physics
week 2: create a simple dark physics pong game
week 3: program an efficient object handling system
week 4: incorperate physics into my object handling system

In the end it still ends up taking them a month to complete, but because it's been broken up into goals they can complete in a reasonable amount of time, they'll be more enthused to continue working. Its all about setting realistic goals for yourself.
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lazerus
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 22:01
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I had ADHD when i was younger, grew milder, now its ADD, so i have my moments of hyperactivity but i keep it under control, unless its a blowout.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 00:54
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Quote: "Recently I've realized that part of my inability to ever finish a coding project or even learn more about programming is attributed to my A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder). "


From how you've described it...I can relate, almost to a 't'. Music is the main thing that helps me focus. It is something I do have difficulty with, I don't know if I could say it is ADD, but I suppose it's worth checking out, as it might mean I can become more focused...but then I usually work around it.

I don't think stuff like ADD are made-up...though for some this may be a true diagnosis, but I speak to people with learning disabilities and issues with attention - there are psychological issues involved and they do find things very difficult, you can notice that in their behaviour and attitudes. This isn't laziness, because it so happens the people I know, try to work hard - the main 2 have ADHD and they described it to me as like being in front of a TV screen and trying to watch only one of those TV screens. It is essentially hyper-activity brain activity.

Normally you can tell fakes from those who really suffer from a disorder is that the fakes typically have a victim mentality, so it's just something to moan about, whilst those who are genuine have a surviving mentality - so they accept their problem and get on with it and probably go on idly by without people noticing.

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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 11:03
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@Dextro
I too don't condone it, but smoking does work. I haven't smoked for a while now. I don't need it in my life right now, but when I have smoked, it's made creative products a lot easier.

There are two aspects to it, I think. You are regularly taking breaks to relax, which breaks up the grind of coding, and also these breaks give you time to think. You spend 7-10 minutes standing outside, with nothing but your thoughts and something to occupy the rest of your body/mind while you collect them. It has really helped me with music, coding and uni work back in the day.

Smoking ftw! Shame that it costs loads of money and makes you die a slow horrible agonizing death from lung cancer.

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Van B
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 11:21
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Quote: "Recently I've realized that part of my inability to ever finish a coding project or even learn more about programming is attributed to my A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder)."


No. You can't attribute every failing you have to ADD, because what effects of ADD can't possibly be procrastination. ADD is a convenience, because it allows parents to attribute blame, and it allows 'victims' an easy excuse.

I don't see CoffeeCoders tale of woe as any different to anyone else here. We all get side tracked, bored, and frustrated. We all abandon projects when something more interesting comes along. We all hit brick walls, and we all go off in tangents sometimes.

Having something to blame for that is not a good thing, if you have no excuse, then you have no reason not to finish a project. I'm not talking about CoffeeCoder directly here of course, because this thread is really more about getting around the effects and how to deal with it? - I mean it sounds like your getting stuff done regardless at the end of the day.
Personally, I think that a condition like ADD should be understood and controlled, instead of 'medicated' and blamed every time little Johnny disappoints his parents.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 11:54
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I agree fully with VanB. We live in an age where people love to qualify everything with some crazy medical / psychological condition. "I'm depressed" is a classic. People who are really, truly depressed don't say that.

What you've described fits 99.9% of people. I don't know what you think people "without ADD" work like; but we certainly don't sit down and instantly fire out 1,000,000 lines of code without a wandering thought. Everyone is as easily bored and distracted as you are! I think music also helps most people.

So on the one hand this post seems nasty as, on the other hand it's me saying - "we're all in the same boat".

Source: friend who "has ADD" and is uses it as an excuse for everything he does that is wrong.

Nazi Zombies Clone. Click here for info page.
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 23:33
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Quote: "You can't attribute every failing you have to ADD, because what effects of ADD can't possibly be procrastination. ADD is a convenience, because it allows parents to attribute blame, and it allows 'victims' an easy excuse."


Very true, Van B. I don't attribute every failing of mine to A.D.D., just the major ones (like sometimes forgetting what I was coding halfway through a function and getting immensely frustrated).

I know that if I persevere, I can get past this. And just because I get easily distracted, that doesn't mean it's caused by my A.D.D.
It just seems likely because my dad and younger brother have it (my younger brother's the worst out of us, though).

Listening to music and drinking coffee definitely helps me, so I'm going to start doing that a lot more often while coding (although the last thing I need is a caffeine-high close to midnight! ).

I like me some coffee.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 27th Nov 2009 23:37
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I don't think I have ADD, but my attention span is still tiny...

My main problem is that I'll discover something about an engine, then I'll implement and test it, but I'll keep discovering features until I just can't get it done...

Then I spend ages play testing and tweaking until I ant tell whether the game is fun anymore...

Violence isn't the answer, it's the question...
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 28th Nov 2009 00:21
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Yeah, that's what happened to me on my last coding project. I got so wrapped up in trying things out (extra lives, power-ups, secret areas that open up and enemies) that I eventually got tired of it and dropped it. I tried to pick it up a bit later, but then I got distracted with trying to implement more stuff (this time check points and saving/loading game files engine). The source code got very messy with both attempts, but it did teach me one thing; you can't just start a project and expect to finish it within a single attempt. Sometimes, you'll get an idea, write up 500+ lines of code to get it to work, and then realize it doesn't really add anything to the game. Then you realize that you've cluttered up the source file, and rather than deleting all of those lines you start a new file and try something else out. The process repeats itself until you finally have all of the features you want. It was shortly after this that I realized just why people had a planning stage in their projects.

I'm grateful that both projects (which were an attempt at an expansion of my game for NaGaCreMo, and dog gone it, it was going to be cool!) didn't turn out as expected, and they really taught me a lot. I learned how to write to files and read them back into a program, how to create power-ups and extra lives, and how to make a level reset itself with odd amounts of coins left.

I like me some coffee.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Nov 2009 04:12
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I too have ADD, I've been diagnosed and everything
Sometimes it is annoying, sometimes I can't sit through a film or TV show I really like because my brain just can't relax, I find myself walking around and looking at things and thinking to myself and get angry with myself for missing the best bits of the film.

Reading can also be a problem, when I read a book it gets me thinking, I put it down and start coding or drawing or writing my own stories, then I come back to the book and have to re-read the last ten pages because I've forgotten it. I have about six books with bookmarks in them at the moment.
Does this ring any bells?

I also have times when I'm totally focused on something, usually when coding and usually late at night, I can go for hours without getting out of my chair and when I look back at what I've written I struggle to understand the code, like I've had some sort of "moment of clarity".

I think ADD is caused by TV and Computer Games, things are so fast-paced your brain can't think.

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Sigh
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Posted: 28th Nov 2009 04:16
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Quote: "things are so fast-paced your brain can't think."


Nothin' a little Pink Floyd, a glass of tequila, and a hookah can't cure. Nice, slow, deep music, listening to it right now.

Keep your Hope & Change to yourself, I choose Liberty! Stop by for a chat! [IXE]Nateholio on irc.maxgaming.net:6667 #GarageGames
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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Nov 2009 04:20 Edited at: 28th Nov 2009 05:14
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If you had ADD surely you wouldn't finish the test hehe
I'll have a go and see if I'm just lazy.

I only got 67 in the ADD test! I'm Cured! I went back and answered again for myself five years ago and got 89. I don't know if that means anything or I was exaggerating what I was like.

I got a scary 54 in the bipolar test, I thought that was good until I read 51 and up is seriously bipolar!

I also got 12 in the OCD test, which again puts me in the highest category.

Great, so I cure one illness and get two!
I'm not schizofrenic (spell?) or autistic though (yay!)
but worst of all...

Quote: "You scored a total of 13
You are almost a geek.

Based upon your responses to this quiz, you have a lot of geek qualities and traits. You probably know more computer-related stuff than most of your friends and are viewed by many of them as an expert. However, your true geek knowledge is somewhat limited."

Nooooooo! That's impossible!
(If you don't get the reference I have taken you down with me )

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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kaedroho
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Posted: 28th Nov 2009 10:00
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I have Aspergers which is in the same family of disorders as ADD (Autism spectrum disorders). And I have similar problems. However, if you look at blitzterrain, ive worked on that for about 16 months now and ive still not lost my motivation for it. So try looking for a project which you could just keep adding to. Any ideas i get for other projects, I do at school in my free time . Thats where the Anisotropic and Object LOD dlls came from.


Quote: "I think ADD is caused by TV and Computer Games, things are so fast-paced your brain can't think."


Its caused the same way as all the other ASDs are caused. Noones really decided on the theory yet, but theory that most scientists think and the only one to acctually have proof is that it is caused by excess testosterone inside the pregnancy causes the child to develop an "extreme male brain", different levels of testosterone says which disorder the child has when their born (ie, ADD, ADHD, Aspergers and autism).

BlitzTerrain - FREE LOD Terrain plugin for DBPro
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tha_rami
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Posted: 29th Nov 2009 01:57
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ADD has a wide spectrum of possible influences. One guy I know learned ActionScript 3and Flex in the span of weeks, then wrote custom audio and SVG processors for it and is now working on a physics engine in Flash. Another guy I know who has ADD, on the other hand, has more of the stuff you mention - so yeah, it might be related - but no, it's not necessarily.

While I'm not an expert, the trick is in allowing yourself to convince yourself that spending time and effort on finishing this will be more satisfying than pursuing the other option.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 29th Nov 2009 23:41
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Quote: "While I'm not an expert, the trick is in allowing yourself to convince yourself that spending time and effort on finishing this will be more satisfying than pursuing the other option."


That definitely seems like it would help. I think another thing that will help is to stop posting in "The Posting Competition" thread so often (or at all)! That place is distracting as heck!

"Learn XNA...learn XNA...learn XNA!"

I've been putting it off for three days.

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Jimpo
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 01:36
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Quote: "Honestly, I think ADD is just an excuse people come up with (both from the medical establishment, to sell drugs, and individuals, to have an excuse why they can't pay attention)."

This is basically what I believe. Like Van B said, your 'symptoms' of ADD are just describing what it's like to be an average person. For example, in the course of reading OBese's first post, I got up after the first paragraph and played some guitar for a few seconds. After, I came back, read the next paragraph, and got up and started walking around.

Mental disorders are crippling, life ruining things. I'd imagine someone with a real attention disorder would start new sentences halfway through their previous one.

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Ultimate_H
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 04:36
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Attention disorders come in varying degrees. When I was younger, I was diagnosed with ADHD, and was a very wild and distracted individual. If I were to be tested again, I doubt they would come to the same conclusion. This is only because I have been very disciplined, and trained myself a lot. I believe, at least for myself, ADHD is a high processing speed in the brain. This high speed causes the person to be able to analyze situations and such at a rapid pace. What normally takes a person 10 seconds to register takes less than one in a person with ADHD. This, to those who don't have it, looks like the person has become bored and/or distracted on with the topic others are still looking at. The problem with this high processing speed, though, is that the individual usually has a much harder time telling the mind what to actually process. One Thing that I believe helps is to overwhelm the mind with stimulus(eg: music, caffine, etc.) so that it causes it to go into somewhat of a calmed state because it's filled with things to process, also letting the individual to put in a few other processes of their own. You could, if you are able to be disciplined enough, actually gain more control on what your mind processes. In my case, I have gotten a decent amount of control over my mind, but not completely. Doing so has allowed me to take what some call my "disability", others my "excuse", and turn it into my advantage.

Then again, I could be completely wrong and sound like a total fool. But, this is how I have perceived my "ailment".

For those who say it is an excuse: There are those who probably do use it as an excuse. But, that doesn't mean that everyone does. There are those who genuinely have trouble with this disorder, myself included. The only reason I have been able to keep on track with my goals to be part of the game dev business is because I have been extremely disciplined with myself for many years. But, I do still struggle with becoming distracted. I always like to try to see it from the other side of the river, so to speak, and with this case, I wouldn't want to be on the other side because then I would loose my processing speed. Although the ability to stay focused for more than 3 minutes would be nice

-H

PS: phew, made it through this rant-of-a-post without stopping and getting distracted, I think this is a record for me.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 11:45 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 11:46
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Quote: "Quote: "Honestly, I think ADD is just an excuse people come up with (both from the medical establishment, to sell drugs, and individuals, to have an excuse why they can't pay attention)."
This is basically what I believe."


You two obviously have no idea what ASDs are. They are real disorders, not an excuse. There are many things that become very difficult for people with any ASD. But there are also things that become easier. they're not mental disorders, their neurodevelopmental disorders (which means they are caused by the way the brain develops in the first place). ASDs are easy to live with. But in a world full of neurotypical people, it makes it alot harder.

Yes, I use my aspergers as an "excuse" for alot of things. But I need to otherwise I will do very badly in lessons, exams and I wont have any friends. Its a whole lot easier when people know you have an ASD. I only ever seen it used as an "excuse" for what ASDs acctually do. ie, finding it difficult to socialise with people.

If you ever meet someone and they say that they have ADD, ADHD, Aspergers, Autism, etc. Then it is not an excuse, it is REAL and everyone with any of those disorders DO FIND IT DIFFICULT to do certian things.

BlitzTerrain - FREE LOD Terrain plugin for DBPro
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