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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] A.D.D. & Programming: Who's a victim?

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Van B
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 12:19
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Maybe it's not the sufferers themselves who use their condition as an excuse - my concern is that parents are too quick to play the ASD card.

Personally, I would hate that, because I hate when people make excuses for me. I order a diet drink in Scotland - it's ok, he's Diabetic, he's not allowed sugar, if you give him sugar he'll die, so don't stab him for drinking diet coke please. People feel like they have to explain, or excuse, any sort of unusual behavior - especially in family members and double-especially where your kids are involved. It's funny, but when my blood sugar goes low, and I tear someones head off for annoying me, well that's just me being evil and I have 'no excuse' for that.

So I do know a little about how people act around those with a condition, either neurological, medical, mental, whatever - it's peoples perceptions and reasoning that is the problem. Frankly the most annoying thing in life is lack of control - when you can't do something that you want to do, for a reason beyond your control, there's simply nothing worse. It might be hard to understand the effects of a condition like ADD unless you have it, but control = freedom, and if you don't control your problem, then it'll eat you up and ruin your life. The last thing we should do is crawl into little pigeon holes just to keep the morons happy.


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Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 12:25 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 12:42
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Your ADD can be a problem, yes. I have ADHD myself (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and it constantly causes me to start and give up on projects. Hell, I even decided to start an OS, asked around on a forum about it, started a forum about it, then lost interest and the entire project died.

However, you are not doomed. You just have to find out what will work for you. Meds (something that a professional doctor gives you) can do wonders according to some, at last for ADHD, even though I have yet to have anything that helps me. Also, in my experience it goes better with time. From what I have seen disorders like ADD and ADHD have a dual nature. They can be a problem, but if you learn to deal with them the disorder can be a strength. For example, I have ADHD, I have much energy but no focus... if I ever learn to focus all that energy there is nothing I can´t do. How you do that, I have no idea, it is something we all must learn I guess.

This is all ADHD, though, but what I heard ADHD is just ADD with a few other things added, like hyperactivity.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 16:58 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 17:09
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Quote: "Your ADD can be a problem, yes. I have ADHD myself (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and it constantly causes me to start and give up on projects. Hell, I even decided to start an OS, asked around on a forum about it, started a forum about it, then lost interest and the entire project died."


I'm just the same. I also started on an OS a few weeks ago. And a software rendering engine and a First person shooter AND an open source plugin collection but after all that I really have no idea how the hell ive stayed working on a terrain engine for over 1 and a half years (which is now called blitzterrain).

Quote: "This is all ADHD, though, but what I heard ADHD is just ADD with a few other things added, like hyperactivity."


All ASDs are very very similar. They are merging them together actually. I bet one day ADD, ADHD, Aspergers will just be called Autism.

When I was little I had big problems with hyperactivity. Some examples include me jumping on tables during class pretending that i'm james bond, a raider from Dark Reign or a jedi. But I was also the one in the class who is obsessed with electronics. I played around with circuit boards when i was about 5 under the tables in "carpet time". You could call these symptoms of ADD acctually, because i wasnt paying any attention to what the teachers said.

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Sigh
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 18:47 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 18:47
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Quote: "If you ever meet someone and they say that they have ADD, ADHD, Aspergers, Autism, etc. Then it is not an excuse, it is REAL"


Ah, so we go from testing someone for a disability and documenting it, to just saying one has it.

In that case, I've got all kinds of problems, now give me my handicapped placard and pardon me while I shout out obscenities in front of the local preschool while naked. I said I have problems, so its REAL.

Quote: "When I was little I had big problems with hyperactivity. Some examples include me jumping on tables during class pretending that i'm james bond, a raider from Dark Reign or a jedi"

Sounds more like a child that needs a few swift swats to the butt or put across someone's knee with a belt. I was always "tearing the place up" but my dad had set the limits on my behavior and I knew better than to jump on a table or whatever. I couldn't sit still in school either and just drew pictures of trucks and jets. I had already been taught the stuff the other kids were being taught and so was bored. They wouldn't put me up a grade because I didn't do my work in class. I acted up once as a child in school and my dad put an end to that real quick, never acted up in school again. But of course, kids test the waters so I received quite a few spankings for various things.

People may have mental problems that cause them to be hyper or whatever. But the issue comes when the person with the mental problem tries to use it as a crutch for them to not take responsibility for their behavior, or someone else tries to do the same on that person's behalf. And if it's a mental problem that is serious enough for someone to be "harmful", then society (or preferably said person's guardian) must take steps to prevent them from harming others in the first place.

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Jimpo
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 20:54
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Quote: "I have ADHD myself (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) and it constantly causes me to start and give up on projects. Hell, I even decided to start an OS, asked around on a forum about it, started a forum about it, then lost interest and the entire project died."
What I was trying to point out is that things like this aren't symptoms of ADD; they are symptoms of being human. Everyone does this.

Everyone has something that brings them down, but people like Ultimate_H learn to work around it and deal with it. The more you give up and use a disability as an excuse, the more acceptable it will become to give up and use an excuse.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 20:57
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Jimpo does have a good point...

I definitely am not a huge sufferer of ADD. My father and brother are definitely the worst, although my dad's never been terrible. He can still focus when he needs to and get the job done, where as I sometimes lose interest two minutes after starting a task and move on to something else. Sometimes I'll go and play my guitar for a few minutes, then stop and go on to watch TV for a bit, then I'll try and code something, then I somehow end up on facebook. It's kind of annoying, lol.

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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 21:05
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i have adhd and it does affect my programming.
i took a quiz on that site and lolmao
Quote: "You scored a total of 33

You are pure geek
Based upon your responses to this quiz, you are pure geek. Congratulations! Few people attain this level of geekhood with so many pop-culture references, access to legacy equipment, and knowing the Internet like the back of your hand. You rule, but you already knew that, didn't you?

So what to do about it? Well, we don't know what to tell you. If you have a successful life and have figured out a way to leverage (don't you just hate that word?) your geek skills to your advantage (e.g., money, babes/hunks, etc.), well, you've figured it out, haven't you? If you haven't, all we can tell you is that, believe it or not, your skills may be recognized and appreciated. Someday. It may not be tomorrow, but hey, it could be the day after!"


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 22:23 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 22:25
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ADD is a real thing. Like any real thing that is disabling, it can easily enough be faked and crutched upon, to the detriment of those that really have it.

@Van B -
I'll remember not to order a diet soda if I'm ever in Scotland. I've gotten very good at completely hiding my diabetes from everyone but sometimes it just shows. I know the feeling all too well, having to make excuses for something that is beyond your control. It's a lousy thing to have to do.


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Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 22:29
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Quote: "What I was trying to point out is that things like this aren't symptoms of ADD; they are symptoms of being human. Everyone does this.

Everyone has something that brings them down, but people like Ultimate_H learn to work around it and deal with it. The more you give up and use a disability as an excuse, the more acceptable it will become to give up and use an excuse."

I have been living with this my entire life, trust me, it is not just an excuse. If you believe it is you know nothing about it.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 22:34
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Quote: "I'm just the same. I also started on an OS a few weeks ago. And a software rendering engine and a First person shooter AND an open source plugin collection but after all that I really have no idea how the hell ive stayed working on a terrain engine for over 1 and a half years (which is now called blitzterrain)."

Lol, yeah, I never said you have to have ADHD to be like this. Personally, though, I am learning my lesson and starting fewer side projects then before.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 23:07
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Quote: "I have been living with this my entire life, trust me, it is not just an excuse. If you believe it is you know nothing about it."


When people use it as an excuse - it's an excuse.

People like ice cream. That's no excuse for eating so much of it you get fat. Knock knock? Who's there? Self control.

I am biased in this however as I know someone who is terrible for using ADD as an excuse for everything. He does actually have it, but that doesn't mean he should automatically be allowed to run amock and that it's okay for him to miserably underachieve at everything.

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Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 23:19 Edited at: 1st Dec 2009 03:42
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Quote: "When people use it as an excuse - it's an excuse.

People like ice cream. That's no excuse for eating so much of it you get fat. Knock knock? Who's there? Self control.

I am biased in this however as I know someone who is terrible for using ADD as an excuse for everything. He does actually have it, but that doesn't mean he should automatically be allowed to run amock and that it's okay for him to miserably underachieve at everything.
"

Which means you are unfair to everyone who genuinely has these issues and fight against them.

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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 23:21
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Lol is it getting hot in this thread?

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Mr Z
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 23:34 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 23:37
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Nah, I just like debates. If I get too hot, just say so. Not my intention.

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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 23:43
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nah its fine, its probably only 70 degrees right now just turn on the AC

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AndrewT
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Posted: 30th Nov 2009 23:56 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 23:59
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[EDITED]

i like orange
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Master Man Of Justice
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Posted: 1st Dec 2009 00:00
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Quote: "[EDITED]"

lmao darnit i missed what he said

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kaedroho
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2009 18:42 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2009 18:48
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Quote: "People like ice cream. That's no excuse for eating so much of it you get fat. Knock knock? Who's there? Self control."


Disorders are a lot more difficult to control than the like of ice cream. Its a difference in the brain, the very part of the body you think should be taking control of the disorder.

Try acting like you have ADD. That might give you a clue what its like to live with ADD, trying to be normal.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 4th Dec 2009 20:52
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I think something else that can factor into this is being afraid; afraid that if one starts a project, they'll encounter something hard to solve and won't be able to fix it. If that's the case, then why bother with the project in the first place?

I'm sort of experiencing that right now. I have an idea for a game I'd love to make (based off of my entry for NaGaCreMo '09). It would essentially be two learning experiences put into one. I need to create a level editor in order to build the levels visually like I want, and then I'd need to program the actual game engine and make everything load properly. However, I'm afraid to attempt it because it's sort of a big thing to take on, and because I know I'll get frustrated and might give up (this has happened on numerous occasions). I'm also afraid that I won't be smart enough to do this on my own.

This does not necessarily fit into the "ADD makes programming harder" debate, but I do think it's worth mentioning. It's quite possible that I mistook this for ADD in the beginning (although I do get easily distracted, lol).

Well, enough chit-chat. That level editor isn't going to create itself, is it?

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budokaiman
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Posted: 4th Dec 2009 22:53
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I can only concentrate when listening to music. I tried to write a paper the other day on CERN's Large Hadron Collider. I ended up checking my e-mail about 15 times, played Team Fortress 2 for 45 minutes, updated Microsoft Visual Studio, and worked on programming 2 different programs. I know for A fact that I have no attention span.

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Jeku
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 02:02
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But isn't that normal? Most people I know, including myself, jump from one thing to another and can have short attention spans. If anything that's normal behaviour in today's day, with everything trying to pull us around into doing different things all the time.


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budokaiman
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Yeah, I can't do anything for more than 2 hours, no matter what it is.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 17:26 Edited at: 6th Dec 2009 17:35
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Quote: "But isn't that normal? Most people I know, including myself, jump from one thing to another and can have short attention spans. If anything that's normal behaviour in today's day, with everything trying to pull us around into doing different things all the time."


Exactly my point. ADD cannot / should not be used as an excuse for things or misbehaving or whatever.

Quote: "I can only concentrate when listening to music. I tried to write a paper the other day on CERN's Large Hadron Collider. I ended up checking my e-mail about 15 times, played Team Fortress 2 for 45 minutes, updated Microsoft Visual Studio, and worked on programming 2 different programs. I know for A fact that I have no attention span."


Yeah. Sounds exactly like anyone else on Earth. You just have to suck it up and make yourself work, ADD or not. That is the thrust of my point here - the moment you say "I can't focus cause of ADD" etc, then that's it. You've committed to never getting anything done and have qualified it with a nice excuse.

If you worked somewhere and didnt do any work, then turned around and said "I can't focus - I have ADD" they would fire you.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 17:52
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Quote: "If you worked somewhere and didnt do any work, then turned around and said "I can't focus - I have ADD" they would fire you."


They would actually try to give you as much support as they can. ADD is a Disorder and employers must give them a chance. They cant just fire you because you have a disorder. But they would fire you if you show that you don't want to get support, meaning that you are just lazy. Theres loads of ways on helping people with ADD. A very successful method is getting a Buddy. Just someone who you work with who will look over your shoulder every now and then and make sure your working. Thats what I have at school and its why I managed to get 7 GCSEs.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 18:02
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Good for you for for getting on with things!

However:

Quote: "They would actually try to give you as much support as they can. ADD is a Disorder and employers must give them a chance. "


That is simply not what would happen in real life, sorry.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 18:07
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Quote: "That is simply not what would happen in real life, sorry."


In any technical industry they would. You can find loads of people with all kinds of ASDs in computing. Have you ever wondered why there are so many people on these forums with ASDs?

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 18:08
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I read in a book (maybe "The dumbest generation") that lot's of people are being diagnosed with ADD however, in general, people have just gotten better at multi-tasking, so lot's of people are mis-diagnosed. Not saying that its not an actual disorder and some people suffer from it, but I think that's why so many people are diagnosed with it.
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 6th Dec 2009 18:18
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Quote: "In any technical industry they would. "


A vague claim, however I venture the people successfully employed in these industries, who ACTUALLY have ADD etc, control it adequately. They aren't going to be turning into work and playing Space Invaders etc - they'll need to knuckle down like anyone else. Which further proves it isn't a good 'excuse'.

As Puppy of Kosh suggested, there definitely is a case of 'boy who cried wolf' surrounding ADD. Every second person likes to think they have it. Same with 'depression'. Maybe I would recognize it as a problem far more if every class of kids didn't allegedly have 6 'ADD victims' in it who used it as a reason for under performing.

There is a fine line Im treading here and I'm not intending to offend you Kaedroho, especially if you genuinely have it. Don't take that personally either - I don't know you at all to say. I can't deny I am weary/skeptical of the ADD card being played, though. Blame the many people who cheapen the diagnosis if you want or call me misunderstanding and intolerant - both are probably true lol

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budokaiman
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Posted: 7th Dec 2009 00:16
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Quote: "Exactly my point. ADD cannot / should not be used as an excuse for things or misbehaving or whatever."

I'm not saying that I have ADD, and won't work because I can't concentrate, I'm saying that in a world where all of these things are available to us, we become unable to concentrate on one thing because we have so many different things going on around us all of the time. I sure don't "Under perform" when I have something truly important to do. I just can't concentrate on something that I don't truly find that I need to do.

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Dec 2009 00:46 Edited at: 8th Dec 2009 00:48
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Quote: "Have you ever wondered why there are so many people on these forums with ASDs?"


Perhaps because they assign a learning disorder to anyone who's hyper and has a pulse?

EDIT:

Quote: "I'm saying that in a world where all of these things are available to us, we become unable to concentrate on one thing because we have so many different things going on around us all of the time."


Agreed. We live in the "get what we want, when we want" age. If a thought comes to our head, we can explore it in 2 seconds, and it's hard to resist for many.


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kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 11:21 Edited at: 9th Dec 2009 11:46
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Quote: "Perhaps because they assign a learning disorder to anyone who's hyper and has a pulse?"


You obviously have no idea what a learning disorder is. And your only talking about 1 symptom of ADHD. There are hundreds of symptoms of an ASD. Good and bad.


Quote: "A vague claim, however I venture the people successfully employed in these industries, who ACTUALLY have ADD etc, control it adequately."


Bill Gates has Aspergers (another ASD but I guess you meant all ASDs when you said "etc"). He seems to be pretty successful in that industry. Many famous mathematicians have it too. Heres a list: http://www.asperger-syndrome.me.uk/people.htm

You also say that I cant get into this industry. I have Aspergers

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