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Geek Culture / SG or Les Paul

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Code eater
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 18:45
Hey,,,

I'm looking at getting a £700-£1000 guitar. I'm pretty certain its between a Gibson Les Paul or Gibson SG.

The bands that I am into are:

-Red Hot Chili Peppers (Favourite)
-Nirvana
-Greenday
-Blink-182
-The King Blues
-Bowling For Soup
-John Frusciante (solo stuff)
-Nickelback

Thats in no particular order (other than Chili Peppers)

In the past I have had a cheap axl strat copy and a stagg tele.

I have tried out an SG and am not too keen on the width of the neck but otherwise like them. I have also tried an LP and have found that the strings seemed pretty far from the fret board (is this called the action?) and are a bit too heavy.

Can anyone lend some helpfull advice as I am indescisive as it is a rather large investment.

Any help is much appreciated,

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
demons breath
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 20:36
Mainly I would say get a guitar in between having rubbish stagg-style cheap junk and a reasonably pricey one. That's not always the best option, but don't invest heavily unless you are certain.

Try as many guitars as you can. Go to guitar shops. Don't just look for ones that are popular or famous - my favourite guitar is my Fender Flame which they made for 1 year in 1984 which I found second hand in a guitar shop for less than £600. It doesn't have to be Strat/Tele/SG/Les Paul to be good.

When you're trying them in guitar shops, try them with your amp (if they don't have one like yours, then once you've narrowed it down and are reasonably confident, see if you can bring your own in). I assume that your amp is also OK - there's no point spending a grand on a guitar with beautiful pristine tone if you're going to run it through a 10W practise amp or some horrible solid state modelling piece of *any expletive of your choice really. as long as it's a noun. a verb would be thoroughly inappropriate in this context*

If there's anything you don't like about the guitar, just don't get it. It's not something you need to compromise on - there are so many guitars in different styles, why get something which doesn't really work for you?

Also, unless you're gigging in these sorts of bands, I'd advise to get something versatile, so that if you feel like playing something more complicated you'll be able to - don't pick something where power chords and open chords are about all you can get your hands round, for example.

Mostly though just keep trying as many different guitars as possible.

There is a reason these guitars you mention are so ridiculously popular, but I personally would prefer to venture off the beaten track a little and go for a guitar which would set me apart a little more.

On the other hand, if you were just asking for advice on the choice between the 2, I guess I wouldn't be much help.

How long have you been playing for?

Also the action is adjustable by fiddling with your bridge height, and you are hopefully aware that it is actually possible to change your strings if they're too heavy...

Before investing in this, sit back and think honestly to yourself about whether you are good enough to warrant this - no offence meant but at a certain level more expensive equipment won't really make you sound much better, and you're better off sticking with a rubbish one, then getting to a really good standard, THEN upgrading once you're really familiar with your instrument. (Sorry if that bit sounded patronising - I don't know how good you are obviously or how long you've been playing for).

Either way all the best with your guitar-ing


Oh and I almost forgot - this is what my baby looks like:

Isn't she hot

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 21:18
Quote: "Also the action is adjustable by fiddling with your bridge height"


It's two thumbscrews on my Westfield LP copy.

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lazerus
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 23:05
well get that £700-£1000 put into pound coins so i can kill you after a month or so by repeatdly throwing them at you. £££ dosnt nessicarily make it better, it could be just be a very expensive piece of crap.

Code eater
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 01:00
Cheers Nex and Demons breath

@demons breath

hey,
yeah maybe I was a bit vague, and yeah ur guitar is pretty nice lol. Anyways, I've been playing guitar for 5 and a bit years now and have just takn my grade 5 (I'm expecting the results tomoz :S). As for my amp, I have a marshal mg101fx so it's pretty good. Also I'm in a band and am gunna b doing some gigs sometime in the next couple months. I'm not definately gunna get one of those two guitars but it's just tht they are pretty renouned.

Anyways,

thanks for the advice guys I'm still not gunna go decide till I've been to a couple shops, (got abou 5 lined up to go to).

Has anyone got either of those guitar and has any good/bad experience with thm?

Thanks for your adive. Also, sorry about some of thr bad spelling, I'm on my itouch and th keyboard is terrible. =)

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 05:59
Quote: "Also the action is adjustable by fiddling with your bridge heigh"


There's a little more to it than just adjusting the bridge. The nut can be changed to lower the strings as well, so the action lies more evenly down the entire neck. And sometimes the intonation needs slightly adjusted afterwards.

And what exactly do you think is too heavy? The strings or the body? If its the body you're complaining about, you better learn to deal with it. Most good guitars will weigh more than the plywood body you're probably used to on a cheap strat.

If you don't like the width of the SG, don't get it. Although, a wider neck helps me play chords better.

I've always liked the necks on Ibanez guitars. They're a good width and very flat with smooth backs.

Quote: "some horrible solid state modelling piece of "

hey, solid state amps aren't all bad. Ok sure if he wants a Gibson then he's probably looking for that warmer 'tube' tone, but solid-state is still good (on the right amp). Depends on the sound he wants. Fortunately, my fender does both solid-state and tube.

Quote: "Has anyone got either of those guitar and has any good/bad experience with thm?"

A friend back in highschool wouldn't said don't get a LP, their necks break when you jump on them.

I think after 5 years it's reasonable to spend $1k on a new guitar. I played for about that long when I bought my custom Carvin at 18. Nothing like being barely outa highschool and spending over $1200 on something you won't see for another 6 months.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 11:52 Edited at: 30th Dec 2009 11:56
Quote: "but don't invest heavily unless you are certain."


Tell that to my brother. He has a collection of guitars worth 1000s of £££, I don't know what he's got because, he's sold some, but I think he has 2 Parker Flys...you know how expensive they are. He might have a Les Paul, though I can't remember, I think he's still got his Gibson Gothic Explorer.


When I was into Guitars, the SG and Les Paul were really nice to play, so either way you're making a good choice, but the SG can be on the cheaper end of things, it might even be worth seeing if you can pick up a second hand Epiphone SG, which also play really nice. I saw one for about £150.

But if you're wanted to invest extra money as you've said, then I wouldn't know which to pick, keep playing them - ask the guys in the store, if they're good at their job, they'd be able to give you a decent recommendation.

Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 19:35
I don't remember Parker guitars being that expensive! I use to want a PRS, nice looking guitar.

Quote: "I think he's still got his Gibson Gothic Explorer"

I almost bought one of those when they came out.

Unfortunately, the best used-gear place around here went out of business. But there's always ebay.

My sister has a Fender tex mex which I played for several years before finally driving it back to her in SC. I loved the sound of those pickups on a clean channel, and with just a little distortion you get a nice old american classic sound.

Two guitars I'd love to buy is a Jackson Roswell and a Rogue Alluminator. I knew where I could've bought both these when they first came out, I just didn't have the cash for them. Now it's impossible to find either one.


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Code eater
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 20:37
Allright thanks guys...

Im annoying my parent by wanting to go to loads of guitar shops which i need lifts to

thanks for the advice,,

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
demons breath
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 21:21 Edited at: 30th Dec 2009 21:22
Quote: "have just takn my grade 5 (I'm expecting the results tomoz :S)."


Good luck mate - Rockschool? I haven't done grades with them (All I've ever done is piano up to grade 3 which I did when I was about 8, so 12 years ago) but I just got the grade 8 book and am planning to go for it over the next few months - don't know what to expect though... What do the exams entail?

(Sorry for off-topicness)

Code eater
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 00:34
Yeah rockskool didn't get the results though :S perhaps tommorow. The piano grade 8 or the guitar?

Basically, you play three pieces, do some technical work like scales and stuff and riffs and tht kinda thing, then you do either improvisation and interpretation (never done tht so I dunno wot it is like) or sight Reading which after grade4 requires an improvised 2 bar ending then the really tricks bit is you are played and riff twice and it's like 8 bars and u have to play it back by ear and then the same with a chord rythm and u have to work outthe chords and tht and finally some musicianship questions such as wot does dc al coda mean and tht stuff.

But the Examinera are always nice. Oh and sometimes u need some effects pedals to change mid song. And don't worry bout being off topic lol...

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 00:39
Quote: "an improvised 2 bar ending"


What if you spent hours coming up with something and memorized it? How would they know?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 01:09
Quote: "I don't remember Parker guitars being that expensive! "


Have a look at the prices on one of their Distributor's websites:

http://www.firstlinemusic.co.uk/product.php?brand=Parker

The cheapest on there is £799, but most of them are £1000+

Though I imagine they're a bit cheaper in the US.

Phaelax
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 01:15
Quote: "What if you spent hours coming up with something and memorized it? How would they know?"


They probably have him play a piece of music he hasn't seen before then has to improv the ending from there. If you memorized something ahead of time, it might not fit.


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demons breath
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 16:18
Grade 8 guitar- nowhere near good enough at piano for grade 8 on that and RABSM is way harder than Rockschool too so I'll stick with Rockschool for the moment

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 16:22
Makes me wonder what quite a few professional and widely-known guitarists would get if they took such tests...

Quote: "Kirk Hammett?

Yes.

Start whenever you want.

Ahum. *plays pentatonic for an hour*

Do you know any other scales?

Uh... *plays more pentatonic but wahs it so hard it sounds like the guitar is dying*"


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demons breath
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 16:29
Hahaha to be fair I think a lot of them could do pretty well. People in pop-punk bands and that maybe not so much...

Also looking at the stuff I need to do, I'm not looking forward to the "sweep picking study" - I can't sweep Guess I'll have to get started on that soon.

Phaelax
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 18:56
Considering kirk hammett also took a few lessons from Satriana at one time, I'd assume he can do more than pentatonic.

I've never really practiced sweeping before. Kinda sad since I've supposedly been playing for 13 years.

You ever done any slide guitar?


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demons breath
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 19:11
I did a course last year at the Academy of Contemporary Music where one of the songs we learnt had a little slide, but apart from that it's just been drunkenly having a bash with a beer bottle/lighter etc.

Code eater
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 20:27 Edited at: 31st Dec 2009 22:35
Quote: "What if you spent hours coming up with something and memorized it? How would they know?"


No, you have like 90 seconds to learn like 2 lines and the improvised ending lol #

Edit (just to remove the need to double post):

Today I tried out a few guitars. And currently the guitar on the top of my list is the Gibson SG Raw Power (http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/SG/Gibson-USA/SG-Special-Raw-Power.aspx). I tried it out today and immediately felt comfortable playing it, the neck wasn't too wide unlike many SGs.
However, I have a few questions:

1. On the webpage (above) it says that it is "equipped with a grade-A maple finger board." Does this mean it is made of Grade-A Maple, or is there some kinda of system on grading finger boards, or is it just to sound good?

2. Why does it need two tone controls and two volume controls?

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
Accoun
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Posted: 31st Dec 2009 23:28
Quote: "2. Why does it need two tone controls and two volume controls?"

I'm not a guitarist, but I guess one for each pickup. Like there are (I think) pickups that are made mostly for using under neck or bridge...

Make games, not war.
Code eater
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Posted: 1st Jan 2010 12:04
Quote: " but I guess one for each pickup"


Yeah thanks, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure because I don't know what they would do in the middle position (when both pick-ups are active) but I guess it just allows you to set a ratio of how loud each pick-up it.

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
demons breath
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Posted: 1st Jan 2010 16:50
Yeah you're better off with 2 tones and 2 volumes I think - it gives you way more control over the sound than those guitars with just like 1 volume knob. If you need to do any violining or suchlike just switch to one pickup and use the corresponding volume pot, but otherwise the versatility of the sound is greater, especially when both pickups are selected.

Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 02:47
Quote: "1. On the webpage (above) it says that it is "equipped with a grade-A maple finger board." Does this mean it is made of Grade-A Maple, or is there some kinda of system on grading finger boards, or is it just to sound good?"

The grade is referring to the quality of wood. AAA is the highest possible grade traditionally, then AA, A, B, and so on. But there is no standard. Mine is a AAA quilted maple top and headstock with an alder body, although Carvin's website now claims the model is a 4A. Higher grade has few blemishes in the grain and less prone to warping.

Quote: "2. Why does it need two tone controls and two volume controls?"

Pretty common for Gibson. My Carvin has "push/pull active/passive controls with passive master volume & tone and active master volume & cut/boost for bass & treble, 3-way pickup selector, 2 dual/single coil switches, phase switch".


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demons breath
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 09:33
That's a rather excessive amount of knobs and switches you have. It would thoroughly disconcert me. I get scared of things like that easily - it's why I never use effects Looks like a nice guitar though.

Herakles
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 10:34
I've only ever had three Guitars. The one I have now is over a decade old, and the damn thing still works. If you look closely at the fretboard, you can see all the years of sweat, blood (yes, I've made my fingers bleed playing the guitar), and dust. A LOT of dust. Especially in recent years, because I haven't been playing as much as I used to and the thing just sits there collecting dust for weeks at a time.

Code eater
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 14:14
Ok cool,,, thanks for the info guys...

@Herakles

Ive never had my fingers bleed, my fingers get tired before that... however once my hand swelled up loads and I couldn't write at school for like 3 days... so it was a win all round

Thanks,,,

Codeeater
Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2010 21:10
Quote: " it's why I never use effects"

Well, they're not really for effects. Two switches are coil splitters, which turn my humbuckers into single-coils. The other is a phase switch, which I'm still not sure what it does. Gives me a slightly different tone, more so when using both humbuckers.

Quote: "blood (yes, I've made my fingers bleed playing the guita"

You gotta build up those callouses on your finger tips so that won't happen!

I don't play electric too much anymore when it's more convenient to just pick up the acoustic.


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demons breath
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 00:28
I know they're not for effects it's just the general fiddling about with things confuses me - I'm more of a plug-in-and-play sort of a bloke. I kinda have two tones, the clean one and the distorted one. Much more fiddling about and I get scared

But yeah my guitar has a coil splitter, but just the one, and it only affects one pickup (which is weird - you can't do it to both like I would expect with only one switch, instead it's only the bridge I think that changes). On the other hand I never really use it anyway...

Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 06:48
Quote: "You gotta build up those callouses on your finger tips so that won't happen!"


Trust me, my fingers are like sand paper (you do NOT want to shake my hand). I just play so long and so hard that I sometimes rip my finger open. It's actually not good, because, over the years, I've been losing feeling in my fingers.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 12:23
I've had the calluses rip clean off before.

Only on an acoustic of course, when trying to do bends.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 20:16
what gauge are your strings? My electric I typically use regular earnie ball slinky (.010-.046) and heavier (.013-.056) d'addario strings for acoustics. I tried Elixir strings before because everyone swears they are smooth and last so long. After breaking two of them in the first week, I'll never waste my money again on them.


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 20:20
I'm using the lightest gauge of D'addario strings available at the moment on my electric to try and back down the lower end a bit - very bassy and whilst the EQ can handle that I'd rather it didn't.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2010 20:26
I only have two acoustics right now, sold the fender last year, but bending is very easy on the larrivee compared to the gretsch which feels extremely stiff. So I keep the gretsch tuned down to make it easier to play and just use the other when i need standard tuning.


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Code eater
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Posted: 4th Jan 2010 18:03
Just bought my SG raw power very happy with it

thanks all

Thanks,,,

Codeeater

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