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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Earth 2.0?

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 10th Jan 2010 21:46
Jeku, I completely agree, was my childhood dream to be the first man on mars . I was just clarifying as the original post said itd take 6 months.

Funny thing is I was so into becoming an astronaut, my uncle somehow got me to sit in with a university class when I was 12 or 13 in a space-sim at the Toronto Science Centre. For some reason they thought it'd be a good idea to get the 12 year old to plot the route along the Moons surface that the ship would take. I had no clue what I was doing but made them believe I did. Next thing I know the Simulation started (had no idea the entire room was going to rotate and spin as if it was the ship) and we were skimming all over random points on the Moon until we crashed into the surface thinking about it now I must have really ruined the real student's experience there haha.
Indicium
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Posted: 10th Jan 2010 22:19
Quote: "If I were given the opportunity to go to Mars, but it would take 5 years on a round trip, I would still accept in a heartbeat."


Same! Just throw in a few Xbox's and the lastest games at the time and im all in, LAN Partys All the way

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 10th Jan 2010 22:29
Quote: "I was just clarifying as the original post said itd take 6 months."


Sorry about that, it was just what I heard as a rough guesstimate...

Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jan 2010 22:51
Quote: "was my childhood dream to be the first man on mars"


mine too!


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 00:05
Quote: "Same! Just throw in a few Xbox's and the lastest games at the time and im all in, LAN Partys All the way"


And a bunch of old ones, though if you gave me a ball and string, I could keep myself happy, Halo 3 and CoD are for chumps - ball and string is where it's at.

Terrestrial Productions
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 00:40
It was said earlier in the form that life on other planets would change religion or prove that God didn't exist. My religion teaches that there is life on other planets so really if life did exist it would only prove that our religion is correct.


Terrestrial Productions
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 00:48 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 00:50
It wouldn't be proof or disproof of either.

Though you'll be able to tick a box and say, "well, we were right about that one" and others (only those who believe life only exists on earth), "well, we were wrong about that one".

BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 00:55 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 00:57
Ill say this:

If we found life on other planets, it would be cool if we could contact them.

If we could contact them, it would be cool if we could understand them.

If we could understand them, it would be cool to get their take on religion, or any religion of theirs for that matter.

It comes down to whether religion is a man made concept or not...If aliens have religion, regardless of whether it resembles ours or not, that's a big deal. If they dont, it will make me wonder if religion is a product of the human race's selfish tendencies, and to help us do what is "morally" right.

You also have to remember that we don't understand the universe. We like to think we do, but that's just human nature. Aliens could look like ANYTHING, could be capable of ANYTHING, could be ANYWHERE...

Think about it. What we see is simply visible light reflecting off our retinas...so can we really "see" everything? or can we only see light? who says wed even be able to "see" aliens?


I also would like to beg the hypothetical question...If we were able to find an alien race, on an alien planet that resembled our mid evil ages, what would we do? share with them? or enslave them? or somewhere in between?



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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 00:58
Quote: "who says wed even be able to "see" aliens?"


Well, I'd imagine they'd be made from whatever was lying around at the time much like we are. So unless they're formed from dark matter (is that even possible? I don't know anything about dark matter) I think they'd be pretty visible one way or another.

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Indicium
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 01:02
All living things would have to be made out of atoms i expect, so unless these atoms are arranged in a way that they resemble glass, they would be visible.

I can't imagine a lifeform being made of parts of the EM spectrum.

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xplosys
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 01:36
Quote: "If aliens have religion, regardless of whether it resembles ours or not, that's a big deal. If they dont, it will make me wonder if religion is a product of the human race's selfish tendencies, and to help us do what is "morally" right."


Very interesting observation, but if religion is a concept of man because we are looking for purpose or guidance, or a tool to keep the masses in line as in early Rome and Egypt, is it not likely that aliens would have a form of it as well? The important factor to me would be how closely it resembles our own, and not whether or not they have some form of it.

Brian.

General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 01:52
Very interesting, although I doubt they'll ever find life on other planets.
But we'll see

Quote: "I'm not a christian, doesn't the Bible say we have the right to use all the resources in the land, in Genesis I think."

Yup, if you want i'll try and find the scripture verse that says that

BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 02:27 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 02:32
@NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
My point is that just because "We" are carbon based, doesn't mean that they ARE. What if they are made out of darkmatter? Also, how do we know things we cant see aren't there to begin with anyway? everything we "think we know" is based on the way we think, and our own individual and collective perception of the universe...looking through a very tiny peep hole, might I add.

Quote: "Very interesting observation, but if religion is a concept of man because we are looking for purpose or guidance, or a tool to keep the masses in line as in early Rome and Egypt, is it not likely that aliens would have a form of it as well? The important factor to me would be how closely it resembles our own, and not whether or not they have some form of it."


The reason why I say no, is because im taking into account that needing a tool to "keep the masses in line" could simply be a human thing as well, and that other races may not need things like that in their society..does that make sense?

You have to remember that THE ENTIRE WAY OUR SOCIETY WORKS is based around human instinct, thinking and the way our brain works. I am simply suggesting that another intelligent race could think much differently...

They could think logically for example...as humans are emotional beings...if all humans thought logically, the world would be a VERY different place. Without touching on religion, I will say that religion and logic lead different paths...so whether or not an alien race has religion is a big deal.



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xplosys
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 02:39
Yes, I see. It's very hard not to think as a human.

Brian.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 02:41 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 02:57
Depends on how much they differ from us. Language and society is what makes us different from other animals, however, we're also a species who seem to have the 'alpha' or a 'leader', they can have a significance on a society functioning, typically leaders want control. We seem systems of control throughout human history...some cruel, some manipulative and others less so. Even some animals try to keep their 'pack' in order.

Of course, an Alien race may live by a completely different logic that we do not understand. They might talk out of their toes and sing from their nose in pure nursery rhyme crime.

Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 04:14
Quote: "Of course, an Alien race may live by a completely different logic that we do not understand. They might talk out of their toes and sing from their nose in pure nursery rhyme crime."


Or convey emotions via their own cultures myths. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

What I find funny on most sci-fi shows that deal with aliens is that they always seem to have one religious belief system. If they truly lived on a planet full of their own kind they would more likely be just like Earth with many different religions. Either that or every alien race on sci-fi shows committed mass genocide to wipe out all opposing views in their race.

Jeku
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 05:42
Quote: "My experience says otherwise, I've entered religious discussions with many people who are taught that you "ought not question the word of God, nor the bible""


Well as you said there are thousands of denominations of Christianity, and every real one that I've come across actively encourages freely searching and finding answers, even if it means questioning what we read in scripture. Meh, I would expect your knowledge of it is probably about as good as my knowledge of Buddhism, so let's just leave that discussion behind.


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dark coder
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 06:34
Quote: "Think about it. What we see is simply visible light reflecting off our retinas...so can we really "see" everything? or can we only see light? who says wed even be able to "see" aliens?"


Because they'd have to be directly or indirectly measurable by some means, if they aren't then they don't manifest, thus they aren't part of this universe thus don't exist.


Quote: "You have to remember that THE ENTIRE WAY OUR SOCIETY WORKS is based around human instinct"


No it isn't, parts of our social behaviour is no doubt influenced by our instincts/genetics, but last I checked we don't act like other apes, because we have larger brains capable of more complex thought.


Quote: "and every real one that I've come across"


No true Scotsman?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 10:47
Quote: "Well as you said there are thousands of denominations of Christianity, and every real one that I've come across actively encourages freely searching and finding answers, even if it means questioning what we read in scriptur"


Well, the statement 'real Christian' is a difficult one, but of course, I'm not going to argue it as I'll happily leave you to your own beliefs, however, the Christians who you don't consider 'real' might have a mutual feeling about you.

Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 11:08
My take is: It is absolutely impossible to think that we are truly the only intelligent species in existence. The universe is larger than we can fathom and who knows, beyond the universe there could be something bigger. I find it absurd to think that our existence was just some obscure muck-up when the world was created (however that may have been).

Also, religions are likely to not change at all. I'm not trying to offend anyone here but every time proof is presented to the contrary of beliefs of someone like a priest or whatever, they will always make an excuse. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I'm only stating a fact.

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Dia
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 11:33
If it is uninhabited, we will move in and use it up. If it is inhabited, we will fear the inhabitants, and try to exterminate them so that we can then move in.

Same thing happened every time in humanity's history, when we discovered that there was yet another land mass just over the horizon

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xplosys
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 14:32 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 14:33
Quote: "Because they'd have to be directly or indirectly measurable by some means, if they aren't then they don't manifest, thus they aren't part of this universe thus don't exist."


So if we can't detect them, then they don't exist. I think we had the same problem with germs many years ago. If science has taught us anything, it's that there is a lot we don't know about yet.

Brian.

dark coder
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 14:44
Quote: "So if we can't detect them, then they don't exist."


No. Notice I said 'By SOME means', there is no way to detect something, aka it doesn't manifest, then there's no difference between saying that exists and it doesn't, and with a swift application of Occam's Razor it doesn't exist.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 17:19 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 17:21
If we can't detect it, how can we know it exists? If we had aliens that are undetectable, then we can't assume that they exist. Even if you couldn't see them on our spectrum of light, you'd be able to detect them (you'd probably see a black blob in the way of whatever's behind it) or if they're invisible you can use infrared or heat vision or other means.

General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:26 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 19:27
Quote: "even if it means questioning what we read in scripture."


Well, thats the liberal denominations, the conservative ones say do NOT question the bible.


Rev 22:19 (KJV): "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. "


Questioning the bible is taking away from it
Therefore anyone who does is not a true Christian. Therefore the Liberal denominations that question ANY part of Gods word are not true Christians.


And remember, its not ME making this up, it's the bible

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:40
Quote: "Rev 22:19 (KJV): "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. "


Questioning the bible is taking away from it
Therefore anyone who does is not a true Christian. Therefore the Liberal denominations that question ANY part of Gods word are not true Christians.


And remember, its not ME making this up, it's the bible "


Umm...it says "take away from this book". That means removing parts of the Bible. It doesn't say that if you question it God will pwn you. It says "take away from it". There's a huge difference, Mr. Jackson.

I find that you calling me a not-true-Christian a rather insulting post. I'm sure other Christians on here will just love the bait you set up for everyone.


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General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:44 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 19:47
Quote: "Umm...it says "take away from this book". "

If you question anything in the bible because you think it might not be true its as bad as taking it out.
Disregarding it means you might as well take it out, therefore the verse.

And remember, thats what God says, I ddint make it up



Quote: "I find that you calling me a not-true-Christian a rather insulting post. I'm sure other Christians on here will just love the bait you set up for everyone.

"


Its not Bait, its a scripture-verse

\

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:50
Umm...you're blind. Nearly every post of mine in this thread that I've posted I made SURE to say that I'm a Christian. Not because I want to offend others' beliefs, but because I wanted to make sure it cleared up anything I said in the future and didn't want to confuse anybody. And I most certainly did NOT edit anything out of my posts. The mods can verify that (so you're busted, in other words).

Questioning the Bible is NOT taking away from it. Tell me, have you ever questioned the story of Adam and Eve? Cain and Able? Why is it that when God punished Cain he sent him out into exile and Cain was DESPERATELY afraid of being killed, when at first it appears that it's just Adam, Eve, Cain and Able in the world? How can you not possibly question that?

You can question something in the Bible without losing faith. And keep in mind that Jesus himself spoke in a ton of metaphors; this means that a lot of things written in the later books of the Bible could very well also be metaphors. Stop claiming that I'm not a Christian, please. I am.


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General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:53
Quote: "Umm...you're blind. Nearly every post of mine in this thread that I've posted I made SURE to say that I'm a Christian."


Oops, sorry that was Coffegrunt, mixed you two up

Quote: "Tell me, have you ever questioned the story of Adam and Eve? Cain and Able? Why is it that when God punished Cain he sent him out into exile and Cain was DESPERATELY afraid of being killed, when at first it appears that it's just Adam, Eve, Cain and Able in the world?"

Nope, not once.

Quote: "You can question something in the Bible without losing faith. And keep in mind that Jesus himself spoke in a ton of metaphors; this means that a lot of things written in the later books of the Bible could very well also be metaphors. Stop claiming that I'm not a Christian, please. I am.
"

So you dont believe the bible is God's word, if you can question what GOD says, then their is no reason to be a Christian


(Mods if I am going too far PLEASE tell me, I dont want to be in trouble)

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:55
OH YOU'RE GOING TOO FAR BOI.


I've lost respect for you, GJ. I AM a Christian. Just because I questioned the story of Cain doesn't mean that I'm NOT.


Quote: "Oops, sorry that was Coffegrunt, mixed you two up"


Next time, double-check your forumers. It goes a long way.


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Lemonade
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:56 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 19:57
Calm down guys. So far this has remained a civil discussion. Let's try to keep it that way?

CoffeeCoder, I think Jackson thought "questioning" the Bible means questioning the validity of it's content, rather than trying to discover what the writing truly means by studying it's contents. And to be a Christian, you must believe the WHOLE of the Bible is true, every single word. "Questioning" is a poor choice word choice.

That led him to this verse:

Quote: "Rev 22:19 (KJV): "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. ""


Am I right G. Jackson?

I doubt he meant that studying the Bible is non-Christian.

EDIT: Woah you guys are fast. Posted too late...
General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 19:58 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 19:58
Quote: "OH YOU'RE GOING TOO FAR BOI."

O.k., I will stop then.
But you spelled boy wrong

Quote: "I've lost respect for you, GJ."

Fine with me, I will continue obeying God not Man

Quote: "Next time, double-check your forumers. It goes a long way.
"

I apologize for my mistake.


{edit} lemonade you are 100% correct

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:00
Fair point.

He still jumped on me and claimed that I wasn't a Christian because I admitted to questioning a couple of things, though. And I very much doubt he hasn't questioned things either, and if he hasn't then he's the only Christian I know that hasn't. Questioning doesn't mean that I doubted the Bible validity; it meant that I was curious as to WHY that was true in the Bible and wondered why there wasn't a more in-depth explanation somewhere. I am faithful, 100%*1000, and a fellow Christian coming on here and telling me that I'm not really ticked me off.

Sorry GJ. Just be a bit less judgmental next time, okay?


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General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:03
Quote: "And I very much doubt he hasn't questioned things either, and if he hasn't then he's the only Christian I know that hasn't."

Never ONCE

And I was NOT trying to offend you at all, if you are a Christian you are my Brother

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:16
Here's a hypothetical question for you (And yes I am trying very very hard to steer the conversation somewhere else)

If we discovered life on other planets, and that life had religion, and one of those religions was identical to a religion on earth, what would you do? How would a discovery such as this effect the other world religions?

As a freethinker, I personally believe that while there isn't sufficient evidence to support any religion/god(s) at the moment, such a discovery would almost definitely be proof that said religion is correct, as it would be nearly impossible to have to separate species who have never been in contact worshipping the same god(s).

[center]Literally nobody who isn't a retard is talking about 2012. -Drew Cameron
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:19
I agree, INH. It would actually be pretty interesting...especially if we found the Greek God Apollo (Star Trek: The Original Series reference...please tell me someone got it!)!


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General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:34
INH: That is actually an interesting thing...though it wouldnt prove anything.

But Christianity is the right religion, but I wont get into the overwhelming evidence for it ATM, I wanna stay in my current condition (unslapped)

Venge
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:39 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 20:40
Quote: "But I believe Christianity is the right religion"


Fix'd.

The only right religion is the one you follow. I follow no religion, therefore I am also right.


I will live forever or die trying.
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Lemonade
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:40
Quote: "As a freethinker, I personally believe that while there isn't sufficient evidence to support any religion/god(s) at the moment"


Here are some reasons I believe the Bible (and thus Christianity) can be proven. The full text is at: http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn53/bibletrue.htm. Just to be careful, I want to say that I didn't read the entire article. Therefore I can't say for sure that the article is %100 accurate, but the portions I posted here I believe to be correct.

-The unity of the Bible
Quote: "This first proof that the Bible is inspired was provided by Jesus Christ Himself when He said, "Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). This means that what the Bible says is true and has a basic unity of thought and principles that cannot be broken or contradicted.

Why is this significant?

According to the traditional chronology for the writing of all the biblical books, it took around 1,500 years to complete the Bible—a very long time.

Imagine, for comparison's sake, that a collection of several dozen books about the historical, cultural and religious heritage of a people began to be written around the year A.D. 500, a few years after the collapse of the Roman Empire. These books would then have been completed 1,500 years later—in our day. Also, some 40 different authors would have been involved over this long span and their language and thought would have reflected their changing surroundings and conditions.

Could someone seriously believe that these authors would be able to maintain an essential unity of thought and principles through all that time? If they did, it certainly would be unprecedented in world history!"


-The Bible is non-mythical
Quote: "Another striking difference between the Bible and other religious works is the absence of mythical stories and legends. While many will surely debate this, we should consider the following.

Other creation accounts in the Middle East, Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America include such mythological scenarios as gods feuding and cutting up other gods to form the heavens and the earth. The religious works of the Greeks described the earth being held up by the god Atlas, while in India, the Hindu religion pictured the earth as supported on the backs of eight huge elephants.

Yet the Bible describes God hanging the earth "on nothing" (Job 26:7). This was written millennia before Isaac Newton discovered the invisible laws of gravity that showed the earth truly is suspended "on nothing."

In contrast to every other ancient creation account, the Bible pictures the creation of the earth in a very scientific manner. In Genesis 1, the continents are lifted from the seas. Then vegetation is created and, later, animal life—all reproducing "according to its kind"—recognizing fixed genetic laws.
"


-The Bible is intact
Quote: "Of all the ancient works of substantial size, only the Bible comes to us completely intact. This is against all odds and expectations. In comparison, William Shakespeare's plays, written only about 400 years ago, and after the invention of the printing press, are in much worse shape. Shakespeare's original words have been lost in numerous sections, and scholars are left to fill in the blanks as best as they can.

But when it comes to the Bible, its uncanny preservation has permitted it to weather thousands of years of wars, persecutions, fires and invasions, and still remain intact. As author Josh McDowell notes: "Compared with other ancient writings, the Bible has more manuscript evidence to support it than any ten pieces of classical literature combined" (The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, 1999, p. 9)."


-The Bible tells events ahead of time
Quote: "The fourth proof of the inspiration of the Bible is the way it deals with time—by accurately foretelling what will happen ahead of time. This is also a unique characteristic of the Bible: It boldly proclaims specific historical events to come in the future. No other ancient sacred book dares to deal with time in this way with unmatched results.

As the book A General Introduction to the Bible says: "No unconditional prophecy of the Bible about events to the present day has gone unfulfilled ... Other books claim divine inspiration, such as the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and parts of the [Hindu] Veda. But none of those books contains predictive prophecy. As a result, fulfilled prophecy is a strong indication of the unique, divine authority of the Bible" (Norman Geisler and William Nix, 1986, p. 13)."


-The Bible yields results
Quote: "The final proof of the Bible's inspiration is very simple—apply it and it will work for you.

The Bible has yielded fantastic results in the lives of so many, and it can do the same for you. It is a practical book, explaining God's will in virtually every facet of life and how to achieve true success. As U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt remarked, "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education."

However, reaping its blessings takes faith—an active belief that God's Word is true and that applying it will yield positive results. The Bible puts it this way: "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6)."


Sorry for the extra long post.
dark coder
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 20:46 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 20:50
Quote: "such a discovery would almost definitely be proof that said religion is correct"


Not really, assuming you mean they are practically identical and it's not just people making very weak links between them, then that would show there's a tendency toward believing in one thing. This however doesn't mean it's correct, as there are many possible reasons how they could be the same. The most obvious being that another alien race could have told ancient civilizations from both planets about whatever.

There is one problem though, many religions have texts and such talking about people's lives on Earth so I don't see how that would match anything from another planet, unless you mean just the creation stories and such. But don't those(on Earth) tend to go from the God of the sun, God of rain, God of whatever etc, then over time they get more and more powerful until they are eventually unknowable, untestable etc so there's not much left to corroborate.

I personally can't fathom what kind of empirical evidence would be required to demonstrate the existence of any specific supernatural occurrence, such as a god, ghosts, whatever. You could perhaps demonstrate something is supernatural, but if that's the case then you can't really know anything about it if it's outside of this universe/nature. After all, advanced technology looks like magic to lesser civilizations.

[edit] Nice Christian propaganda above, perhaps you should read some secular sources as they will quickly highlight issues with that -_-

Lemonade
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:00
Quote: "[edit] Nice Christian propaganda above, perhaps you should read some secular sources as they will quickly highlight issues with that -_-"


Sure, just give me some links. If you want, we can continue this convo by E-Mail. E-mail me at:
dark coder
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:17
A good start would be here, but really, if you have any specific events you need more info on you can just Google them, as I'm no theologian. I'll talk all day about logic and science though.

General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:26
Wow lemonade, that post was AWESOME!

Thanks for that, really encouraging!

Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:31
Quote: "But Christianity is the right religion, but I wont get into the overwhelming evidence for it ATM, I wanna stay in my current condition (unslapped)"


Dude! Think how mega offensive that is to every other religious denomination. I'm not even religious, and I find it frustrating to read that!

I'm amazed this thread hasn't been locked! You guys have done an amazing job to get to p.3!

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
lazerus
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:37 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 21:40
I just thought of many arguements across this entire board of discussion. Though to stop my sanity breaking through needless finger pointing at all sides to it, heres a quick list and being rasied a true christian, then becoming a man of free will, im not using a second hand arugement.

For religion;

Explains life-exsistance was created by a higher being, we are all part of a plan laid out before our birth giving us a comfort, known only to the grieving at times of death. Leaves us assured to our place in society and that we have meaning in our daily lives.

Phenomon that we cannot explain yet such as ghosts, miricles and the like.

Rightous Hope is the kicker on this list, it inspires nobility to all children and sets morals which we abide by. Less the vengence of god on our souls.

Against;

Atrocities commited against each other when we are all born equal, without sin, in the image of our all knowing creator. Said attrocities must be known to him, so he is either willing or not able or able or not willing so why belive in him/it?

We are not all born equal, i can preach about that.

Science has evoled rapidly and a book wrote 2000 years ago using many eye witness accounts holds more merit than the seed of the apple? ~ if you accept the metaphor.

Least forgetting the exageration/bending of truths. A man born from a Arabian country was white? Hardly...

Ive always been told to look at both sides of the coin so you know what your getting into, i can hardly say science will previal or vice versa since to put it bluntly WE DONT KNOW.

Choose what you belive, taking hostile action on those choices redeems the last of your hummanity and i hope your corpse is scaraliged.

Life on other planets has to be a must, it can not, not be thier due to the expanse of our galaxy. Its just a matter of when, not if.

-Con

Melancholic
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:38 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 21:53
I do not wish to start any religously motivated argument so i will be discreat. I find it inportant to express my opinion and say that i find the tone that the article is written in very biased. I feel my need to expres this so the christians on this forum(Who i have no problem with and many of my good friends are christians) do not presume that we cannot argue anything on the points that constitute that article. I mean hey, what sort of place would the world be if we did not have our own opinion and if we didnt question things?.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:43 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 21:56
GJ managed to prove my point about Christians who don't believe the word of the bible or God's word should be questioned.

He considers those who do, not real Christians, just as those who don't consider those who do, not real Christians. This strikes me as odd as an outsider, because it become difficult to determine what a 'true' Christian is, with 36,000 sects, I'd hazard saying, "if the bible is their book and Jesus their man, then arguably, they're Christian" 'True' is perhaps a matter of perspective, as so many disagree on how to be Christian. Again, an outsider perspective. You're welcome to disagree with it.

I don't think the divide is liberal or conservative on the issue, because last time I checked, wasn't Jeku conservative? (though he's welcome to correct me on this) either way, I've spoken to conservative Christians who would be on Jeku's side in saying, "it's okay to question".

But I am glad religious discussion went well for most part of the thread, despite definitely stepping into AUP breaking territory, but it wasn't that bad. But, my guess is that this thread will soon be followed with a lock to avoid further AUP breaking.

Fallout
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:53
This thread has got me interested in religious discussion again. I am tempted to find a religious forum and ask some questions. Specifically questions about proof.

People always say "here is proof", then quote a passage or quote, or talk about an event. But it is never proof. It always contains an element to the passage or quote that is unproven. So I want to be able to say "well, what proof do you have for 'x' within that proof", then they can prove that portion, with evidence. And so on, and so on, until I either end up convinced, or we get to a 'fact' that cannot be proven.

Nobody ever actually provides vaguely convincing proof.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
lazerus
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:54 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 21:55
And in the immortal words of Peter griffon which i cant quite remember;

Let thier be sexy hot alien chicks so i shall prevail in spreding the seed on man.

Seriously though, Life on other planets would be very nice. I mena imagine what we can learn for thier technology. I understand that life isnt set universally by our expectations. Thier could be things equivlent of plants floating in space using only sunlight for nurisment. Now that would be epic, just peering out of the window of a shuttle and seeing a tree lol.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 21:58 Edited at: 11th Jan 2010 22:02
Fallout, drop me an email at seppuku30[at]gmail[dot]com (as you email is missing from your profile and my profile email is rarely checked) and I'll recommend you to the forum I visit. Christians (of many backgrounds), Jews, Muslims and Atheists all post, it is atheist dominated because it is atheist run (but rules and mods are unbiased, atheists get into trouble for being stupid), but your questions can be answered and there's quite a few people posting on it daily. It's a good community, even if a bit strong.

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