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Geek Culture / Working Conditions in the Industry Discussion

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Oolite
19
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Joined: 28th Sep 2005
Location: Middle of the West
Posted: 18th Jan 2010 17:48
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Quote: "Okay? Care to put down some money on that? I believe I just stated that I would never work for them"

I would, if i could afford it.
The thing is, maybe you feel this way because you're not in a position where you have to struggle for money? I have a million and one bills coming in each month that need to be paid, no matter what. Since quitting teaching I've had to take on a job as a delivery driver which seems a huge step down. I possibly picked the worst time to quit and try and get an in house position but alas, i didn't know the recession would hit so hard.
This wasn't really my point though, whether it means working hard in relatively unfair conditions for a year or so, it would be brilliant to have that on your CV. An AAA title or even work experience from a company as big as Rockstar would get you a long way for future jobs. Which i suppose is where I differ, if it means struggling for another year to get my dream job, i'm going to do it. My dream job isn't going to fall into my lap the first time. In my current job, i start work at 5am (because i help along with loading and other duties and then jump onto driving). It's not extremely hard work and i have a laugh at the best of times, this is purely my own choice because i need to put in the hours. If i had to do the same for a games company i would, but i guess thats where the problems have started, people being easily manipulated because they are doing their dream job. I think people really need to look a little further up the chain at their project managers. Or we need a union...

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Beast E Gargoyle
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Location: Sunny San Diego, CA
Posted: 19th Jan 2010 05:07 Edited at: 19th Jan 2010 05:09
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Sorry to go off topic, I just found a really interesting topic on game development conditions.

Even, though it is becoming hard for game publishers to want to publish unproven IP games Vigil Games must have touched THQ's sweet spot. There was a recent article on Darksiders here http://gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/01/18/feature-afterwords-darksiders.aspx where Vigil Game started there inital production for Darksiders with just a 4 man team. I am trully amazed that the game grew from such a small development team.

I assumed that the majority of publishers look for well founded game companies.

My online game portfolio and work samples [a href]www.jaredgingerich.com[/a href]
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bond1
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 06:57 Edited at: 19th Jan 2010 07:02
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And what about this: What if your "dream" job of working in the video game industry turns out to be working on a game called "Martha Stewart's Ultimate Bake-off" for Nintendo Wii.

Everyone wants to work on the manly games like Gears of War or Modern Warfare, but I'd say those jobs are very few and far between, with most people having to settle on working on more mundane titles.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Keo C
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 07:09
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Quote: "Everyone wants to work on the manly games like Gears of War or Modern Warfare, but I'd say those jobs are very few and far between, with most people having to settle on working on more mundane titles."


Pffft, nothing is more manly than balancing perks in Ultimate Bake-off.


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entomophobiac
22
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 07:42
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Quote: "Everyone wants to work on the manly games like Gears of War or Modern Warfare"


You mean homo-erotic games like Gears of War and Modern Warfare?

Especially GoW seems to me a bit TOO manly for its own good...

Only reason to work with such games is that you're rich after a couple of projects and can fund your own studio and do something you LOVE to do rather than something you just do.
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Toasty Fresh
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Location: In my office, making poly-eating models.
Posted: 19th Jan 2010 10:36
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Quote: " What if your "dream" job of working in the video game industry turns out to be working on a game called "Martha Stewart's Ultimate Bake-off" for Nintendo Wii."


I would because, hell, it's better than working at a macdonalds.

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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 10:40
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Quote: "Everyone wants to work on the manly games like Gears of War or Modern Warfare, but I'd say those jobs are very few and far between, with most people having to settle on working on more mundane titles."


Very true. One of my mates applied for a job to join a company writing for the WII. They were making some camp little cartoon pirate game. I think that, and the shocking wages offered (£16k, with no hope of pay rises!) finally turned him off the idea. I had a chance to apply for a job too, but I didn't bother. I would have no sense of achievement making a cutesy pirate game.

If there is no disembowelment, there is no game!!!! GRRRRRRR.

Quote: "Only reason to work with such games is that you're rich after a couple of projects and can fund your own studio and do something you LOVE to do rather than something you just do."


I'm not sure about that! While I agree in principle, in reality, I don't think the boss man is ever going to choose a less lucrative game to make. It'll always be "which will sell the most and be the most popular?" which is why we relentless get the same game formulas rehashed over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
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bond1
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 12:10 Edited at: 19th Jan 2010 12:13
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Quote: "You mean homo-erotic games like Gears of War and Modern Warfare?

Especially GoW seems to me a bit TOO manly for its own good..."


Lol, that made my day - I've always thought the same thing, the over-the-top machismo in GoW always made me cringe. All they need now is a greased up, shirtless Volleyball scene...

Come to think of it, almost ALL male comraderie makes me uncomfortable. I like to work alone, one man killing machine, Rambo style.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 12:26
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Quote: "I'm not sure about that! While I agree in principle, in reality, I don't think the boss man is ever going to choose a less lucrative game to make."


Look at Bungie. After making Halo games for the better part of 12-13 years (they started in '98), they now own their own studio and are working on an as-yet unannounced new franchise.

It's really hard, though. Money is what drives all markets and it takes Blizzard-amounts of moolah to fund your own projects.
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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 19th Jan 2010 13:42
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Quote: "Look at Bungie. After making Halo games for the better part of 12-13 years (they started in '98), they now own their own studio and are working on an as-yet unannounced new franchise."


Bungie started in 98, as a solo effort - that soloist is no longer part of Bungie. Classic games have something, some sort of energy that can't be brewed in a corporate environment, it needs to grew in a creative environment - Halo was born in a creative environment, and will die in a corporate one. Personally I prefer Halo's attitude, it knew it was awesome, and didn't have to rub your face in it. Halo2 was the start of the slope.

It's like this:
''My broom is 25 years old today, 25 years and it's only needed 8 new heads and 11 new handles.''

If John Carmack left ID, then it would be tough to consider it the same ID - it's actually up to us, we cast the final vote everytime we buy a game. And people wonder why brand names fade out - we buy them out, we make them successful and corporate, then the people behind these companies and ideal leave, and the suits move in RA RA RA RA RA RA RA'ing around these poor developers.

I think the trailblazers of the videogame industry should be regarded more as celebrities, then people can attribute that awesome to an actual person, because there are solid and honest developers out there loosing credit to business-plan bullet-points.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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David R
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 13:57
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Quote: "It's like this:
''My broom is 25 years old today, 25 years and it's only needed 8 new heads and 11 new handles.''"


I love that quote. Good 'ol Trigger



"How the hell can it be the same bloody broom then?"

"There’s the picture. What more proof do you need?"

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 19th Jan 2010 14:29
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Quote: "Especially GoW seems to me a bit TOO manly for its own good..."


Don't forget the grunting, I have to play GoW with the volume down in case somebody thinks ill of me.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 15:20
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Quote: "I have to play GoW with the volume down in case somebody thinks ill of me."


Why, is grunting a bad thing?
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jan 2010 15:53
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You know exactly why, but you want me to say it in front of all of these innocent minded children. I'll keep to my innuendos thank you.

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entomophobiac
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Location: United States
Posted: 20th Jan 2010 10:08
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Quote: "Bungie started in 98, as a solo effort - that soloist is no longer part of Bungie."


This is actually not true. I wrote an article about this very subject some years ago, so there's a bit of research behind my following statements:

Jason Jones began his forays into professional game making in '91. He chose the Mac as his platform and released his first game, Minotaur, to a mind-boggling sale of some 2,500 units... Bungie Software grew out of these efforts (and more) and in 1998, Halo development started as a Sci-Fi RTS similar to Myth. The rest is history.

Jones is still CEO of Bungie and is now working with their new IP.
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BearCDP
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Posted: 20th Jan 2010 15:30
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But Alex Seropian left to start Wideload. Was he not as instrumental in shaping the studio as Jones was?

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entomophobiac
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Posted: 20th Jan 2010 17:37
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That is extremely true and you're extremely right, of course. Goes to show that it's not enough to do the research, you actually have to look in your notes before you quote from them.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jan 2010 10:11
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Totally agree with VanB
Why aren't we appreciating programmers when so many people play games?
I can't name a single programmer, modeller, level artist or designer that were a part of the games I love.

The same can be said for scientists, mathematicians, and other people who are doing amazing things but barely get a mention because the masses are more interested in what type of butter Madonna buys.
Are they really interested? I don't think so, people just want someone to look up to, and since they have been presented with these celebrities (which has now become almost an insulting term) they become role models.

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 21st Jan 2010 15:44
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Quote: "Why aren't we appreciating programmers when so many people play games?"


because today they're a single cog of many.


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