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Geek Culture / Time - dd/mm/yy

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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 22:58 Edited at: 26th Jan 2010 23:18
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[PIC REMOVED - PLEASE CHANGE IT BEFORE REDISPLAYING IT]

What is up with this? Most of the world follows the standard, day/month/year system, but America seems to think that saying it in the most illogical order is right.
month/day/year.

Quoted from a friend:
Quote: "mm/dd/yyyy is completely illogical and meaningless. It makes no sense - and the rest of the world hates it. (AFAIK) the US is the only country that insists of getting the date wrong. This causes lots of confusions for the rest of the logical world."


What do you think of this?

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Indicium
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:00
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let them get it wrong

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budokaiman
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:01
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Quote: "mm/dd/yyyy"

Funny, I have never seen it written like this.

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:02
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Hmm...interesting question.

It doesn't really matter, in my opinion. They're all right, it just depends on your preference.

Also...you may want to edit that image to get rid of the starred-out naughty word...just sayin'.

"Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind, amazing things will happen." ~ Conan O'Brien
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:04
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It could come from speech, you know, September the 19th 2009?

Though perhaps even that's illogical, after all, we say 19th of September 2009.

So, I'll continue to use date in my banter with the yanks.

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IanM
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:21
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Actually, it's the big-endian format that's most logical ... from a computing point of view anyway.

That's where the biggest unit is first and the smallest unit is last (year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds)

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:21
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I've gotta agree, IanM.

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Venge
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:26
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We also don't use the metric system. It's called DIVERSITY.


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budokaiman
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:33
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just noticed this:

Quote: "Joined: Wed Sep 13th 2006"


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Venge
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:39
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Strange. If this forum wasn't so "illogical", I would have joined on 13th September.


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gbark
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:39
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It just doesn't make any sense, so naturally it's the way we do it.
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hyrichter
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:43
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Generally, we say it as month, day, year:
January 26th, 2010 (usually no "the" after the month.) That's easier to say than 26th of January, 2010, imo.

We're right and everyone else is wrong. Right? No?

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ionstream
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Posted: 26th Jan 2010 23:57
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It's just an old system and there aren't enough problems with it to initiate a nationwide reform. Doesn't matter to computers much anyways, only when it comes to printing the date in a user readable way.

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The Slayer
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 00:44
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I'm currently following a course for administration, and there we learn to write the date as follow: 2010, January, tuesday. So, we are right, and everyone else is wrong.

Just kidding.

Cheers

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:14
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Quote: "as follow: 2010, January, tuesday. So, we are right, and everyone else is wrong."

~The Slayer

Quote: "That's where the biggest unit is first and the smallest unit is last (year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds)"

~IanM

Quote: "I've gotta agree, IanM."

~Me

And yes, I'm aware that you are kidding.

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PW Productions
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:18
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It's just culture. They also right prices and numbers like this:

$25.99 and don't use commas although, mm, lemme think, the rest of the world uses commas instead of decimals in numbers with a decimal extension.

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budokaiman
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:20
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Quote: "the rest of the world uses commas instead of decimals in numbers with a decimal extension"

I've also seen 20,000 and 20.000 as being the same.

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
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gbark
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:21
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I have always wondered about that difference, but we typically use commas after every third digit, ie: $1,000,000.00
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:28
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I think it's most European countries that use a comma for decimal, go to Germany and you might find that 2 euros and 50 cents is written as 2,50 euros.

In the UK, however, it'd be £2.50 (not using the exchange rate of course ). I imagine there are other European countries that are exceptions.

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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:38 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 01:38
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As long as the month is written in full or the day has st/nd/rd/th after it then I don't mind, but writing only numbers in a format that isn't either yyyy/mm/dd or dd/mm/yyyy is beyond stupid. As for the radix point, I don't care, it's usually obvious that someone's using a different system depending on the context. However, what I can't stand is imperial measurements and especially Fahrenheit(don't get me started about people using 'degrees' for °F), so I will do my bit to make all my code use nothing but metric and Celsius and correct(British) spelling .

Also, why are the forum dates: day of the week/month/day/year?

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 01:54 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 01:58
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Doesn't make sense to me why we format dates like that or why we don't use the metric system. It does annoy me when people act like it's everyone in America's fault for using the system though, only a select few actually have the power to change what system we're taught and what the standards are . And I blame the brits, they're the ones that invented it! . We are taught the metric system as well, but in everyday language we use the imperial measurements.

Another thing that never made sense to me is why we describe something in English before we actually state what it is. Instead of, "a plump, juicy red apple", it seems more logical to state the object first and then describe it (like they do in Spanish, French, Italian, and I'm sure many other languages), like this: "an apple red, plump juicy".


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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 02:34
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Because English speakers love having to remember every part of a sentence before it finishes, which reminds me, one confusing thing about speaking Japanese is that unlike English you don't invert your reply when injecting negatives: Is John here? Is John not here? Both of which yield opposite replies in English, of course it depends on the question: Do you like this? Don't you like this? English must be quite hard to learn .

Then there's other cultural differences, like why must you be expected to tip for a satisfactory service in other countries? Mr. Pink would love Japan.

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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 02:38
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I have just always found that smallest to largest makes more sense. It's the natural way of things. Everything starts small and gets bigger.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 02:57
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Quote: "That's where the biggest unit is first and the smallest unit is last (year, month, day, hours, minutes, seconds)"

I think that definitely makes the most sense for filing data (including electronically). That's how I name folders that are named dates: 2009 1 26. That way I can sort by name, and they're all sorted chronologically and grouped first by their years, then by their months.

And in all honesty, I think it's usually stupid to ever write the month as a date. 01/03/05 means one of three things. could be January 3rd, 2005; 1st of March, 2005; or even 2001 March 05. Stupid. I almost always will write, 1 MARCH 2005 or something along those lines

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 03:40
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Why is the plural of oxe oxen, but the plural of box boxes?
Why can you see a bunch of geese, but not a bunch of meese?

There are so many problems with the english language that someone made a documentary on it a few years ago. Forget what it was called, but it was astounding how many illogical errors there are in the language most of us speak every day. Yet it seems so easy for all of us to carry on a decent conversation while following the thousands of rules we've developed to make this language work.
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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 03:56
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Quote: "Why can you see a bunch of geese, but not a bunch of meese?"

You can't see a bunch of geese, you can only see a flock.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 04:44 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 04:46
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English is a creole full of borrowed words. Many of our 'errors' are because for one thing, it has different languages influencing it, at base root it is Germanic, and Germanic tongues aren't entirely logical either (Norse is difficult to learn due to inconsistencies - why is it Loki and Loka, when you have Olaf and Olafr, surely it would be Lokir and Loki? (Then throw in Oðin and Oðinn)).

I don't think any language is completely consistent unless it has been standardised so, in the last 500 or so years the language has had people trying to standardise it, but there's an awful lot to change as it's so diverse. The initial problem was perhaps the in different region English itself was developing differently and independently, hence regional dialects. Having a dictionary and being able to print has helped significantly, it means we've had standardized spelling and as well as a standardised dialect.

So a writer in Yorkshire will spell the same as a guy in London. It's also why Robert Burns caused controversy within the literary community as he decided to write entirely in a Scottish dialect as opposed to standardised English. Not always easy to read either, but it was a good statement none the less.

Americans, blast them! Tried to push it further and tried to fix some of our spellings, the reason they spell 'colour' as 'color' is not (and as much as I hate to say it) out of stupidity. They just believed the 'u' was redundant. Though I'd argue myself that the Americans themselves are redundant, but that's a different discussion

However, the attitude has grown to say, "why do we need to fix the language? It's constantly changing." Which is true, there's no point trying to keep up with it and try to 'fix' it. Because I say innit bruv, though towards the entire issue, my stance can be summed up as 'meh'. 'Meh' can be found in the dictionary and it is defined as 'indifference'.


Sorry for the language lesson. I did language change for my A-Levels and studied it in my first year at Uni and found it to be very interesting.

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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 04:51
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Haha, I found that a good read. So you like Norse?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 04:58 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 05:00
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Aye, I do lad. Got a copy of Introduction to Old Norse and the Old Icelandic Dictionary sitting on the shelf right in front of me. I figure I'd learn Norwegian and Icelandic before continuing learning it. Sadly, there's very few books on the subject.

However, my advice would be:

Lát þér þat ekki í augu vaxa. (Don't make a mountain of it )

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 05:21 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 05:23
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Americans write it month/day/year because
A) It sounds much better
B) It makes much more sense

If I heard someone say, "It is currently 26 January, 2010" I'd be like, "What?"

"January 26, 2010" sounds so much better and more natural.
You wouldn't say "This is house, Billy's"
You would say "This is Billy's house."
It is the 26th day of January, so month before day makes more sense.
In the Billy's house analogy, we are talking about Billy, and the house which belongs to him. So Billy is the main object of our discussion, and the house is a sub-object of Billy.
The month is the main object, and the date is the particular day out of the month.


Also:


So what if I talk to myself? Its the only way i can have an intelligent conversation around here.

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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 09:28 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 09:28
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Quote: "B) It makes much more sense"


Wrong, you've already been rebutted before you even posted this.


Quote: "If I heard someone say, "It is currently 26 January, 2010" I'd be like, "What?""


As would I, because most(sane) people would say: "It is currently the 26th of January, 2010(two-thousand and ten)" I find omission of that last 'and' in 2010(and other dates) to be quite irritating and clearly shows a lack of diligence toward mastering the fine art that is the English language.

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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 10:01
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Imagine a man has been kicked in the head by a kangaroo on 2010_01_05 (big endian), and wakes up in a hospital bed with slight amnesia. Soon he realises he is supposed to be at a wedding on 2010_01_12(big endian), but he can't remember whose. IT COULD EVEN BE HIS!

The first thing Bob (for tis his name) does is grab a nurse, in a non sexual manner, and yell into her face "WHAT IS THE DATE, YOU FOOL?!?!?! I HAVE A WEDDING TO GET TO!"

Follows the two possible responses:

Nurse: "WHY! Calm down Mr Bob, the date is ... "
Bob: *bob hankers on every syllable, awaiting the reveal*
Nurse: "JANUARY ... "
Bob: *Phew, at least it's the right month, Bob thinks*
Nurse: "... 25th 2010"
Bob: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! HOW DARE YOU tease me with the possibility that I could still attend the wedding, only to dash my hope upon the reveal of the [dd] portion of the current Gregorian calendar date!!!
*Bob flat lines*

Now, let's see what happens from the other perspective:

Nurse: "WHY! Calm down Mr Bob, the date is ... "
Bob: *bob salivates in anticipation, the delivery of the date possessing the power to mend or shatter his very soul*
Nurse: "The 25th ... "
Bob: *NO! Bob already calculates that it is not possible for him to be in time for the wedding, unless the Kangaroo was a time traveling Kangaroo*
Nurse: "... of January 2010"
Bob: Well, I must confess I am upset, but luckily due to the format in which you delivered the date, I was able to come to terms with missing my wedding, without being first teased with the possibility that I could still make it. Thank you for your compassion. You have a nice ass.
*Bob makes a full recovery*

So this demonstrates which format makes the most sense, and also explains why there are more heart attacks in the US than in any other western country.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 10:20 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 10:22
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Quote: "I find omission of that last 'and' in 2010(and other dates) to be quite irritating and clearly shows a lack of diligence toward mastering the fine art that is the English language."

FACE.
PALM.
There is no "and" in 2010, or any other number. "Two thousand ten" is actually the correct way to say it. "Two thousand and ten", "One million and five", "six hundred and sixteen", and "Five hundred and twelve" are all incorrect. The only time when the word "and" is supposed to used when pronouncing numbers is when telling someone a monetary amount where there is X dollars and X cents. For example, $3.12 would be, "three dollars and twelve cents".
And now most of you are going to call me stupid and tell me that I'm wrong. (Even though Im not)
*Raises flame resistant shielding, prepares anti-ignorance weaponry*

So what if I talk to myself? Its the only way i can have an intelligent conversation around here.
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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 10:39
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Quote: "And now most of you are going to call me stupid and tell me that I'm wrong"


Nope, you just said it yourself.

Omitting the 'and' is just lazy, also, there's an 'h' in 'herb'.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:19
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Quote: "Omitting the 'and' is just lazy"

No, omitting the "and" is CORRECT. Look it up, buddy.
Quote: "also, there's an 'h' in 'herb'"

Yes, and in other news, Water discovered to be wet, Pope found to be Catholic, and Bear seen defecating in woods.
Your point? There's a difference between a silent letter and whether or not a word should be used in a certain way, and one has no bearing on the other.

So what if I talk to myself? Its the only way i can have an intelligent conversation around here.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:25
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Quote: "No, omitting the "and" is CORRECT. Look it up, buddy."


Not in correct (ie. British) English.
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:43
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No, in any English.
Besides, its not JUST a language thing, it's also a math thing.
I've had several math teachers correct a classmate for using "and" when saying a number.
Proof.

So what if I talk to myself? Its the only way i can have an intelligent conversation around here.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:46 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 11:47
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Your 'proof' claims that using 'and' is correct, which it is.

Quote: "Always spell out numbers that begin sentences: Four hundred and fifty people attended the birthday party."
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:50 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 11:52
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Who says two thousand ten? Odd concept.

Also, 'herb' has a 'h' in it, it's not a silent letter, we're not French, we don't silence our h's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hJQsvoY6VU

Online etymology dictionary:
Quote: "late 13c., erbe, from O.Fr. erbe, from L. herba "grass, herb." Refashioned after Latin since 15c., but the h- was mute until 19c. Herbaceous is from 1640s."


In the 19th Century people realised that actually, "wait a minute, we hate the French, why use the French pronunciation? it's our word now!" and thus started pronouncing 'herb' the correct way.

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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:51
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Quote: "Imagine a man has been kicked in the head by a kangaroo on 2010_01_05 (big endian), and wakes up in a hospital bed with slight amnesia. Soon he realises he is supposed to be at a wedding on 2010_01_12(big endian), but he can't remember whose. IT COULD EVEN BE HIS!

The first thing Bob (for tis his name) does is grab a nurse, in a non sexual manner, and yell into her face "WHAT IS THE DATE, YOU FOOL?!?!?! I HAVE A WEDDING TO GET TO!"

Follows the two possible responses:

Nurse: "WHY! Calm down Mr Bob, the date is ... "
Bob: *bob hankers on every syllable, awaiting the reveal*
Nurse: "JANUARY ... "
Bob: *Phew, at least it's the right month, Bob thinks*
Nurse: "... 25th 2010"
Bob: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! HOW DARE YOU tease me with the possibility that I could still attend the wedding, only to dash my hope upon the reveal of the [dd] portion of the current Gregorian calendar date!!!
*Bob flat lines*

Now, let's see what happens from the other perspective:

Nurse: "WHY! Calm down Mr Bob, the date is ... "
Bob: *bob salivates in anticipation, the delivery of the date possessing the power to mend or shatter his very soul*
Nurse: "The 25th ... "
Bob: *NO! Bob already calculates that it is not possible for him to be in time for the wedding, unless the Kangaroo was a time traveling Kangaroo*
Nurse: "... of January 2010"
Bob: Well, I must confess I am upset, but luckily due to the format in which you delivered the date, I was able to come to terms with missing my wedding, without being first teased with the possibility that I could still make it. Thank you for your compassion. You have a nice ass.
*Bob makes a full recovery*

So this demonstrates which format makes the most sense, and also explains why there are more heart attacks in the US than in any other western country."


Haha, exactly my point.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:53
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Quote: "Who says two thousand ten? Odd concept."


Well, maybe people that want to say the number 200010 a different way.

Quote: "we're not French, we don't silence our h's."


Not all, but some - honour, hour, poo.
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:56 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 11:59
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Oh... That's embarrassing... I kinda shot myself in the foot on that one, didn't I?
I still stand by my point though. After a closer look, that page contradicts itself, so it's not a valid source either way. It says first that 207 would be three words, not counting "and". Hence, it would be "Two hundred seven".
But right after that, it says that 4,763 would be four words, which is obviously incorrect. It would be "Four thousand seven hundred sixty three" which is six words. If you DID use "and" then it would be seven words, so this site is totally inaccurate.
So we'll have to disregard that page/site as a source.
This just shows that I should not be arguing at six A.M. I need to get the crap to sleep already.

So basically, that site proves nothing either way. It just makes me look stupid for not checking it thoroughly enough before linking to it.

Edit: also "Herb" with the "H" being pronounced, is a name. So if you were to say, "I grow Herbs and spices in my garden." You'd get some very odd looks. I suppose you also think that you're supposed to pronounce the "P" in "Pterodactyl"?

So what if I talk to myself? Its the only way i can have an intelligent conversation around here.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Jan 2010 11:57
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Quote: "It would be "Four thousand seven hundred sixty three""

470063?
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Omega gamer 89
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Joined: 10th Sep 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 12:00
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Quote: "470063?"

Actually, if we were to use YOUR rules, then Four thousand seven hundred sixty three would be 4000700603.
So, yeah. You fail. Now I really need to get the fsck to sleep. Goodnight.

So what if I talk to myself? Its the only way i can have an intelligent conversation around here.
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The Slayer
Forum Vice President
15
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Joined: 9th Nov 2009
Playing: (Hide and) Seek and Destroy on my guitar!
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 12:35
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Speaking about different languages, I think we should talk to each other in DarkBasicPro language. That way we would understand each other so much better, don't you think?

Like:




So, be honest, did you understand what I said?

No, not kidding.

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
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Opposing force
19
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Joined: 10th Aug 2005
Location: England
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 12:50 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 13:20
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Why do people say Two Thousand and Ten or Two Thousand Ten anyway? It's much easier to say Twenty-Ten because there aren't as many syllables. I mean, when it was 1999 we didn't say One Thousand, Nine Hundred and Ninety Nine did we?
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Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 12:52 Edited at: 27th Jan 2010 12:54
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dim answer$(2)
answer$(1) = "Yes"
answer$(2) = "No"



do

if inkey$() = "y" then text 0,10, answer$(1)
if inkey$() = "n" then text 0,10, answer$(2)


loop



*Presses y*


Quote: " because there aren't as many syllables. "


If you're worried about syllables, perhaps rephrase that as, "'cause there are fewer syllables." Though there are many ways of reducing your syllable count, but it's end up being very blurred.

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RUCCUS
20
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 13:42
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Omega, relax bud. The english language has many avenues. Im sure If I pulled one of my old highschool teachers and asked them to have a look at your post, they'd find a dozen errors neither of us have ever heard of. Does that make it wrong? Not in today's society. Just settle down and accept the fact that when it comes to english, the rules are made to be broken.

I've heard a few teachers mention that the word "and" is only meant for decimals. Others have told me it's specifically for money usage like you've said. But then again, I cant remember the last human being I've met that has pronounced numbers the way you're saying, unless you count Microsoft Text To Speech as a human being. You might be correct in knowing the official "rule" - if it can be called that - of using "and"s in numbers, but in terms of what is generally accepted by society, nobody cares and we're all going to continue on speaking how we've spoken for our entire lives.

Just step back from the computer, you said it yourself you're up way too late surfing the forums, maybe if you get some rest you'll realize its just some stupid conversation about the word "and" and you'll calm down a bit .
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budokaiman
FPSC Tool Maker
15
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Joined: 24th Jun 2009
Playing: Hard to get
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 13:44
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While we're on the subject of languages, I have a question for all of you as I got into an argument the other day over this.
If saying the name of a band, would you use plural or singular:
"Anthrax are great", or "Anthrax is great".
I think that it would be "are" because saying "Anthrax is great," makes you sound suicidal, plus if you said:
"What do you think of the band Anthrax?"
the response would be:
"They are great."
The response being plural.

This signature is legen-wait for it... dary };]
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Gil Galvanti
20
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Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 27th Jan 2010 19:25
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Quote: "Americans write it month/day/year because
A) It sounds much better
B) It makes much more sense
"

What an ignorant statement. Of course it sounds better and makes more sense to you-that's how you've been raised hearing it. It actually makes more sense logically if you go from smallest to largest, as in 27th of January, 2010.


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