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Geek Culture / Soooo, incase anybody was going to buy Assassin's Creed 2 on PC.

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Indicium
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 01:22
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Quote: "It's one of those concepts that sounds good on paper but doesn't work in reality."


Don't mean to be awkward, but why can't you just write the same code for them all?

Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core @ 1.46Ghz 2038mb RAM
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lazerus
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 01:48 Edited at: 19th Feb 2010 01:50
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I leave you guys for how long?

Why has this suddenly turned into;

We both make valid arguments, but were not changing our footing.

Dont get me wrong the back and forth is cute.

Sum up,

Drm shoots itself in the foot while shooting the badguy through the floorboards. You cant remove it and expect people to play nice, not going to work flat out. Keeping it aggrigates those who use it, but garentees a X amount of profit at least.

Answer none. Solution? Find a better one. Possibilaity of coding a whole new system? minimal.

My bets on jeku winning or van B locking, ethier way continue.

Wow, this steered into pc conflicts over security features, From a console game release sneak peak...

-Con


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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KeithC
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 05:19
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Quote: "It's specifically saying you need to have a connection to the Internet."

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute; I would assume that statement to mean that I only needed the connection to register/activate the game...not to have a constant connection, or lose all progress. It should be clarified on the packaging that a constant connection to the internet is required.

I guarantee you that many other people would make that assumption.

My two cents.

-Keith
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Jeku
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 05:22
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Well the game isn't out so we can't really determine how it will be phrased. All I know is games that require a per play activation or one-time activation clearly state that an Internet connection is required. As this is the first offline game I've seen that requires a constant connection, we'll see how they phrase this when the game is out.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 05:46
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Quote: "Didn't you ever get a ST or Amiga, early PC even for doing homework?

Then what happens? - you get games for it"


But the Amiga was one of the more powerful computers at the time, wasn't it? We did have a 500, and though I'm not sure of its original purpose, we bought tons of games for it.

Quote: "And why not? It has a x86 CPU, 2Gb of RAM and a graphics card roughly equivalent to the Dreamcast"

The processor is nothing fantastic, the highest only being 1.6ghz that I can find. And the graphics typically use shared memory don't they? Overall it's not that bad, especially for what it's intended for, and I agree games could be made to run on them very well, but nobody is going to. They put such an emphasis on graphics and using the latest shaders that gameplay becomes secondary. But this is a little off-topic. In short, they could make games for lower-end computers, but they won't.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
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Butter fingers
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 16:21
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Quote: "What now? - boycott, strike, suicide bomber perhaps?"


wonder how many terror watch lists that got you added to?!

I want robotic legs.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 17:13
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Eventually, all computers will have constant wireless, similar to phone networks. Heck, one day it will be free I bet (long ways away).

There will be cloud computing, and your computer will be little more than a shell. You'll always have the internet, and only be able to access your computer online. Then maybe you'll just be buying a link to the game on their server.

Or something.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 22:05
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I can't really say this is a bad reaction. Seriously, they're losing (or "not gaining", however you want to look at it) a LOT of money to piracy. Maybe it is the right move on their part?

I mean, I hate all the digital crap like that (a big reason I hate mac's is because of the hardware identifier chip in 'em), but it might not be such a horrible thing.

Quote: "Don't mean to be awkward, but why can't you just write the same code for them all?"


Different hardware.

Different systems have different ways of accessing different chips and hardware. For systems interfacing with specific operating systems (like DirectX) have all these specific routines, that try to interact with the system in a specific way. If stuff is different, it doesn't work.


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soapyfish
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Posted: 20th Feb 2010 03:08 Edited at: 20th Feb 2010 03:10
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Ubisoft have answered a few questions about the always-online DRM here::
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235596&site=pcg

420
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Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 06:21
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It's sad to see a day when 5 out of 6 books for my college classes were available for free online. I don't think you can stop pirating, but I am for a means to stop them which doesn't consist of corporations being able to view priavte files on a person's computer.

My online game portfolio and work samples [href]www.jaredgingerich.com[/href]
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David R
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 14:09 Edited at: 21st Feb 2010 14:16
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Quote: "It's sad to see a day when 5 out of 6 books for my college classes were available for free online."


Considering how ridiculously (and unjustifiably) expensive most textbooks are, this example does not make me particularly sad.

EDIT: As an example, a specific Tanenbaum book is £65. It's barely 1000 pages, and is only available in hard cover (presumably to attempt to force or justify the price). It's insane, especially since the sole 'target market' is students! Students with little money!

(I'm not saying this justifies the piracy of the book, nor have I done so - I did in fact cough up the cash. But the fact pirate versions of it exist does not surprise, and frankly I think the publishers deserve it for the unjust price, considering there are bound to be students who are not as well off who still need it. Heck, I could buy three weeks of groceries for myself for the cost of this book)

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 19:54 Edited at: 21st Feb 2010 19:56
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Quote: " As an example, a specific Tanenbaum book is £65. It's barely 1000 pages, and is only available in hard cover (presumably to attempt to force or justify the price). It's insane, especially since the sole 'target market' is students! Students with little money!"


Quote: " frankly I think the publishers deserve it for the unjust price"


I hate that attitude. The great thing about capitalism is you can set any price on a product you made, regardless of whether it's "just" (which as far as I know can't be quantified). I know which book you're referring to, and in fact I bought it myself (his OS book, right?), and I paid over $100 for it for a 3rd year Uni course. Good on him that he can make cash from students. Whether it's moral or not is up in the air, but because we think it's too expensive doesn't give us an inherit right to justify the piracy.

I would love to get the gold set of Twin Peaks episodes on DVD, but last I checked it was over $200. Technically the product isn't something we "need", and it is not a "right" for us to have, so we're forced to pay what the market wants. Companies will go out of business (hello, 3DO!) if their product costs too much and they don't sell enough of said product. But since Tenenbaum has been selling his Uni books for decades, it's obviously a price that is not set too high for the market.


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David R
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 21:27 Edited at: 21st Feb 2010 21:28
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Quote: "(which as far as I know can't be quantified)"


My point with the length of the book is that there are several other books on similar topics that are several thousand pages longer (2000-2500+) that are both cheaper and do not force you to into a hardcover edition.

If these publishers can manage it, why can this publisher (I think it's Pearson) not manage it? Excessive greed. If not a full blown pseudo 'monopoly' considering it's the main textbook on many courses (so you have to buy their book versus any other, meaning they can magically charge what ever they want)

Quote: "Good on him that he can make cash from students."


I'm guessing that personally he makes very little out of it, actually. As per most other creator/publisher relationships

Quote: "but because we think it's too expensive doesn't give us an inherit right to justify the piracy"


I wasn't trying to justify it: My point is, I think it's good these publishers are being screwed over by piracy. They've become so fixated on greed and pumping out [n] different editions they seem to have lost sight of the fact that their sole target market is not a barrel of money. Their target market is (in this case) first year university students. Students who aren't going to be pulling £50 pound notes out of their arses (Your generation maybe, but certainly not ours )

So yeah: Burn publishers, burn. Maybe they'll wake up some time and reduce the prices to something reasonable. Until then I get great pleasure out of seeing their products pirated (whilst not partaking in it, because I luckily do have excess funds to buy books etc.)

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Michael P
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 21:42 Edited at: 21st Feb 2010 21:47
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As a result of this, assassins creed 2 is likely to be pirated more since the pirated version won't require an internet connection. You can't stop a game like this being pirated. The only thing this will stop is noobs trying to use the same disk on multiple computers. It won't stop the heart of pirating which is hacked versions being downloaded by masses. This will only reduce profits and hurt the PC game industry further, it will not benefit the game company. As said by others it is just to please naive shareholders, the managers probably know that the impact is a net loss.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 22:04
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Quote: "So yeah: Burn publishers, burn. Maybe they'll wake up some time and reduce the prices to something reasonable. Until then I get great pleasure out of seeing their products pirated (whilst not partaking in it, because I luckily do have excess funds to buy books etc.)
"

You realise you don't have to actually buy the book right?
Let me explain how it works:

Without piracy
Publisher 1 brings out reasonably priced book.
Publisher 2 brings out extortionately priced book.
Publisher 1 sells lots of books, earns a good living etc.
Publisher 2 sells less books, doesn't make as much money.
Result: Publisher 1 comes off better.

With piracy
Publisher 1 brings out reasonably priced book.
Publisher 2 brings out extortionately priced book.
Both books are pirated. Publisher 1 loses money that is rightfully his. Publisher 2 loses money too.
Result: Both publishers make little money.

[center]You can get further with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile.
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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 22:37
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Hey.

Flamers.

Quit it.

Seriously. This is getting annoying, watching people yell at eachother, trying to get the other person on their side... No one's changing sides here. We're all incorrigible on the internet. Deal with it.

"And we played the first thing that came to our heads...Just so happened to be... the best song in the world...

it was the best song in the world..."
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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 22:43
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Quote: "Seriously. This is getting annoying, watching people yell at eachother, trying to get the other person on their side... No one's changing sides here. We're all incorrigible on the internet. Deal with it."


I vote for you to deal with it. So far there hasn't been "yelling", and it's an amicable discussion. Why must people come into threads and whine about them? Close the tab if you don't like reading people arguing about stuff


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Thraxas
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 22:56 Edited at: 21st Feb 2010 22:57
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It's PC gamers fault in the end. Instead of not buying or playing this game because of the DRM, they'll download the DRM removed pirated version. Now the publishers feel justified making even more annoying DRM for their products or not making a PC version at all.

If you truly feel that strongly about the DRM don't buy the product and DON'T PIRATE IT either.

As for the talk of text books, text books are more expensive because they have a relatively limited market. All the universities I have been to had a second hand bookshop on campus where you could get your course text books for cheap, and at the end of the year you could sell them back.

@INH
Your example to too simplified to be valid when talking about text books. Universities don't pick course books based on the price. So just because book 2 is cheaper doesn't mean more people will get it.

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Feb 2010 23:58
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Quote: "@INH
Your example to too simplified to be valid when talking about text books. Universities don't pick course books based on the price. So just because book 2 is cheaper doesn't mean more people will get it.
"

My brain is too simple to deal with any concept in which the world contains more than three people.

[center]You can get further with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2010 00:14 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2010 00:14
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Quote: "Good on him that he can make cash from students"


At £65, we'd settle for a cheaper version, probably bad business, but I suppose that's a good thing about capitalism too - the market in a way decides on the price and we, the people are the market - if people won't buy something based on its price, then they need to sell the product for less.

So Eg. The Old Norse book I wanted in my first year costs >£30, I found an alternative for £15, so I went for that one.

Unless you're like my professor who says, "you'll need my book for this module, which'll cost you £20." If you look at some of his other books, like The Politics of Literature, which is £50 on Amazon. So I'm glad that's not our required text, that can buy 3 weeks worth of food.

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 06:05
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This just makes me laugh. Looks like the DRM servers are down, and people can't play single player. Good job, Ubisoft!

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/07/ubisoft-drm-authentification-server-is-down-assassins-creed-2/


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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 15:22
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I don't see the problem. It requires a constant internet connection (this is stated on the box right?), and obviously if it requires a connection then you'll be connecting to a server, and obviously at some point there will be some downtime.

If you don't want the risk of this issue occurring, simply don't buy it for PC.
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David R
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 15:35
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Quote: " If you don't want the risk of this issue occurring, simply don't buy it for PC."


But that's the weird thing: The DRM is there to protect their sales on PC. But it will actually destroy most of their sales on PC (as per what you say - most will opt for the console). So what is it they want to achieve?

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Van B
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 16:23 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 16:34
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Quote: "Um, no, historically the PC versions look and run better if you have the hardware."


Not to add arms and legs here - but I've noticed a distinct drop in reliability in that. GH3 is a great example of a game that should never have been released on PC, because where is the market demand that ensured the 360 version was bug free and smooth?. It's nowhere, so there's no budget for improving PC titles when the sales are so highly stacked against the PC. It'll happen more and more, and it certainly did not used to be this way. Not so long ago the PC was head and shoulders above the consoles, and consoles are static while PCs get better all the time. There's only one reason for that - PC platform neglect, the sort some of us have been warning about for a while.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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KeithC
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 16:27 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 16:34
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Quote: "It requires a constant internet connection (this is stated on the box right?)"

I'd actually like to know that as well, Ben. Can anyone with an actual PC copy verify this, or does it simply say "internet connection required" (like most other games do...only for initial verification purposes)?

EDIT: The link that Jeku gave is pretty funny. Even their servers for the Forum discussing the DRM issues seems to be down....LOL! Wow, that's EPIC.

-Keith
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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 17:43
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Quote: "But that's the weird thing: The DRM is there to protect their sales on PC. But it will actually destroy most of their sales on PC (as per what you say - most will opt for the console). So what is it they want to achieve?"


I don't get it either. Who wants to play a single player game that requires a constant internet connection? Who wouldn't pirate the PC version considering it has such an advantage over actually buying it?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 17:53
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Quote: "Not to add arms and legs here - but I've noticed a distinct drop in reliability in that. GH3 is a great example of a game that should never have been released on PC, because where is the market demand that ensured the 360 version was bug free and smooth?. It's nowhere, so there's no budget for improving PC titles when the sales are so highly stacked against the PC."


eh? GH3 is buggy? I've never had any probs with it on the PC. One of my all-time favorite games, and I get to play it on my compy Also, world tour, woot!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 18:29
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I've just checked out the requirements on Steam and it says this:

Quote: "A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT ARE REQUIRED TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES AND TO UNLOCK EXCLUSIVE CONTENT."


I expect it says the same on a boxed copy but who knows.
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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 19:42
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Quote: "Who wouldn't pirate the PC version considering it has such an advantage over actually buying it? "


I dunno... people without entitlement issues? We don't have a right to enjoy something we don't pay for, regardless of whether you agree with how they made the product. If the illegal version has an advantage, it's still illegal


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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 22:02 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 22:05
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What a stupid thing to say.

Quote: "I dunno... people without entitlement issues?"


It's not a case of feeling 'entitled' to anything. The 'free' version has a major advantage over the 'paid' version, so why would people buy the latter? I certainly wouldn't. Although, I'm not going to pirate it either since I'm not interested in it (apart from being against piracy for the most part).

How many people don't pirate a game because it's illegal though?
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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 22:20
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Quote: "What a stupid thing to say."


Explain to me what part is stupid. You asked who wouldn't pirate it when the free version is better. That *is* an entitlement issue, because the free version is illegal, and you don't have an inherent right to it just because the legal version is shoddy

Of course the free versions all are better in that they don't cost a dime, so that can be applied to any piece of software. But to suggest that it should be pirated simply because you don't like the rules that come along with the legal purchase is ignorant.

Quote: "The 'free' version has a major advantage over the 'paid' version"


How about when you make a game, and you place it at $5, I pirate it because it's better in that it's free? After all, free is definitely always a major advantage over paying, wouldn't you agree?


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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 22:30 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 22:31
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I don't see what it has to do with entitlement. I can get a better version of something somewhere else, so if I wanted to I would. I don't feel I'm entitled to anything. It's not like I'd use the whole DRM argument as a justification for piracy.

Quote: "and you don't have an inherent right to it just because the legal version is shoddy"


Well done captain obvious. But believe it or not, you don't need the 'right' to be able to pirate something. It's illegal sure, but if people expect that to be the main deterrent for pirating software then well, they don't have a clue. It's true that some pirates get caught, but the majority of them don't. And the majority of them don't believe they'll get caught. So whether you have the 'right' to do something like this doesn't really factor in, and I don't see what it has to do with this argument.

Quote: "Of course the free versions all are better in that they don't cost a dime"


Well other people such as myself feel that there is value in supporting the developers when we like their games, so that plays a factor in what the 'paid' version is actually worth.

I buy games, sure - when I can afford it. I don't do it because it's illegal to pirate though, I do it because a) I want to support the developers, and b) I prefer legally own it because it feels like it's worth more.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 22:40 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 22:40
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I think Benjamin might be right on that front, in that people don't necessarily avoid doing something because it's a illegal, after all there's a lot of crimes that are easy to get away with and piracy is one of them. So the law isn't necessarily something that deters, though arguably, if it were legal, then more people will get away with it because there are a lot of people who'll think that if something is legal then it is moral and thus won't be bothered by it. But of course, different people are different. Some will pirate because they think they're down with the establishment, others who think they're entitled or those who simply want to acquire something because they can get it for free. All that would be regardless of law.

I personally would not be afraid of being caught, but choose not to do it because I don't agree with it. But if the developers gave it away for free on the other hand...then I wouldn't pay them a penny. I may be moral, but I am still a cheap student after all.

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 22:52 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 22:54
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Quote: "Well done captain obvious."


You know what? I was not being a jerk in any way, and you refer to my post as stupid and are insulting me at every turn. I'm not going to put up with you doing this to people and getting away with it, so you're going on a week long slap.

Regardless of what you think, this has nothing to do with our discussion. If I didn't like your points and I was a jerk, I would simply delete your posts. But there are a few people here who continuously put other people down without warrant, and this time I'm bringing down the hammer.

I see on your record that you have had lots of warnings, a slap and a previous ban, so you're on thin ice.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 23:02
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Jeku, we've been meaning to tell you this for a long time, you're an idiot, but I love you for it. And you're a good idiot, not that kind without the brain, but in fact, an intelligent one who can think and come up with strong answers, even if we don't always agree with them. I'm in love with you in a creepiest ways possible, but you're still an idiot.

Do you want to know why you're an idiot? Simple, you've not banned Benjamin - it has nothing to do with his behaviour or anything like that, but it's just the fact he lives in France and that in itself is worthy of a ban.



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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 23:15
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I didn't mean to hurt your feeling Jeku. I'm sorry. I shall stay out of this conversation as you clearly have very strong beliefs against piracy, and I have strong beliefs of my own.
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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 23:15 Edited at: 8th Mar 2010 23:17
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Quote: "I'm in love with you in a creepiest ways possible, but you're still an idiot."


That's good to know..... I think



Quote: "I didn't mean to hurt your feeling Jeku. I'm sorry. I shall stay out of this conversation as you clearly have very strong beliefs against piracy, and I have strong beliefs of my own."


On the contrary, you didn't hurt my feelings, but your negativity toward all the members in general is what gets me. This isn't personal.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Mar 2010 23:20
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Hehe, it's all down to perception then. I wouldn't say I'm terribly negative towards other members of the forums.
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FredP
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 01:03
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Quote: "How many people don't pirate a game because it's illegal though?"


Lots of people.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 01:21
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I should have said "how many people abstain from pirating a game purely on the reasoning that they aren't allowed to?".
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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 01:52
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Quote: "Hehe, it's all down to perception then. I wouldn't say I'm terribly negative towards other members of the forums."


I'm not going to rehash what we chatted about on MSN on this forum all over again, so please refrain from arguing about it here. Thanks.


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 05:07
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I have the solution. Buy the game, then....

-Keith
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 06:12
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Well, I dunno about other cities, but buying PC titles here is becoming increasingly difficult. Retailers just aren't stocking them like they used to, and those that do, only have a tiny selection.


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Herakles
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Location: Lost in my own head
Posted: 9th Mar 2010 07:14 Edited at: 9th Mar 2010 07:16
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You want to know why I don't pirate games? It's not because it's illegal, there are plenty of unjust laws, it's that it's just plain wrong. Behind every big game like Assassin's Creed, there's a team of programers and art people who did all the hard work, and it's doing an injustice to them to pirate their creation.

Having said that, it's an equal injustice for the greedy buisiness men to ruin their hard work with unreasonable DRM like what happened to Assassin's Creed 2.

So, the solution is to either get the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 version, or just not get the game at all.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 10:58
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Quote: "Behind every big game like Assassin's Creed, there's a team of programers and art people who did all the hard work, and it's doing an injustice to them to pirate their creation."


That's what I wanted to hear. I just hope there's enough people that feel like this.
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KeithC
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Posted: 11th Mar 2010 15:47
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I had heard that they were removing the DRM....something we all thought they would do, after pissing off a significant number of people. I also read that the pirates had a crack that let legit owners bypass the online requirement...the crack was available after 24 hours!

-Keith
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Michael P
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Location: London (UK)
Posted: 11th Mar 2010 19:53
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Quote: " I also read that the pirates had a crack that let legit owners bypass the online requirement...the crack was available after 24 hours!"

epic fail

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lazerus
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Posted: 11th Mar 2010 22:39
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Unbeatable DRM, cost alot if not millions to design and implement. Sole purpose anti piracy. Cracked after 24hours...

Its like there asking for it?

You tell anyone from the /b/tard verse that something is unbeatable. They'll do it as a laugh and post results to prove you wrong along with screwing in the ass about it.

They giving them more of a reason to beat the protection, as a chalenge and for the lolz.

Clarify my position, if you have paid for it, go nuts with your copy, hell download the pirate version for all i care. Aslong as you have that copy with that license, physical or digital its yours to do what you want with.

Im not where that stance falls under but it is antipiracy.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Jeku
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 06:15
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Quote: "Aslong as you have that copy with that license, physical or digital its yours to do what you want with."


That's not legally the case. Similarly if you buy a CD or DVD you can't technically download its MP3s or AVI files. I'm not a lawyer but I know that much.


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Toasty Fresh
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Joined: 10th Jun 2007
Location: In my office, making poly-eating models.
Posted: 12th Mar 2010 09:27
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Quote: "That's not legally the case. Similarly if you buy a CD or DVD you can't technically download its MP3s or AVI files. I'm not a lawyer but I know that much."


Morally it's OK though. I doubt the guy who made the software would even care anyway.

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