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Geek Culture / Playstation Move: Late to the Party?

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 15:25 Edited at: 14th Mar 2010 15:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9ybHddDMgM&feature=popt14us11

I love the 360 and PS3, but honestly they always seem late to the Nintendo party. They look tacky as heck too...and they look like something...

It also seems each company is purposely using three different techniques for motion capturing. Not sure if that's a patent issue or if they're doing it in order to make people believe their tech is better then the other two.

Unlike 360, it looks like they're actually playing games using the system, instead of having a mock-up demo.

Thoughts, comments?


Indicium
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 18:43
Quote: "Unlike 360, it looks like they're actually playing games using the system, instead of having a mock-up demo."


Project natal looked pretty real to me.

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 19:22
I've only seen the original trailer where it was pliantly obvious that it was faked. If there is a recent video of it being used, I'd like to see it.


Keo C
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 20:24
I remember Sony had the eye toy thing for the PS2, this looks like an expansion on it of sorts.


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DJ Almix
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 21:33
I think project natal looks better.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 23:39
Hmm...not sure how I feel about this. It looks too much like the Wii Remote, but at the same time it's definitely different. However, the games are EXACTLY THE SAME as Sports & Wii Sports Resort. But what else are you going to do with a controller like that?

I'm also feeling a bit happy for Sony, because now the PS3 might get a bit more popular and games for it will change (obviously). And, now PS3 owners will get just as much exercise as Wii gamers while they're playing.

I still think it looks too much like the Wii Remote though.


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budokaiman
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Posted: 14th Mar 2010 23:45 Edited at: 14th Mar 2010 23:46
Quote: "I remember Sony had the eye toy thing for the PS2"

They have a PS3 version too, which is what the controllers will be used with. There were only a couple of games that actually used it when the PS3 first came out, then it went extinct until now.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:05
[email]And, now PS3 owners will get just as much exercise as Wii gamers while they're playing[/email]

A whole +8% calorie loss...

I don't see the point of motion control, until we get force feedback, so we can "feel" the virtual world they're interacting with...

Oolite
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:20
Didn't they show this last e3? I was as unimpressed with this now, as i was then.

Not digging all of this waggly jump around your living room gameplay(but yes, i was impressed with the wii when it first arrived). I know thats been said before but games are my downtime. I'm not playing them to get fit or physically exercise, thats what i have a gym membership for.
I'm still waiting for the truly original control scheme to come from waggle controls. I don't need more boxing/golfing/marksman games that take advantage from me waving my arms around.

Natal does look like a step forward, controller-less gameplay sounds fun. Still going to consist of waggling around like a loony though which puts me off. Its gonna be one of those things that is better for your mate to have than you.

Gunn3r
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 06:48
Quote: "I don't see the point of motion control, until we get force feedback, so we can "feel" the virtual world they're interacting with..."


Play Heavy Rain on the PS3, and the limited controller based motion interactivity will have you begging for more. Aside from the walking controls, the game is controlled amazingly, in my opinion.

Accoun
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 15:44
Quote: "However, the games are EXACTLY THE SAME as Sports & Wii Sports Resort"
Remember that PS3 is aimed towards other audience than Wii. IIRC more ambitious games (like MadWorld, No More Heroes etc.) were selling far worse than all those Wii Play's etc. I doubt Sony will leave PS Move without anything for more hardcore gamers... (Am I the only one that would love seing Rune 2 with PS Move and current-gen graphics?)

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david w
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 16:20
probably
David R
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 16:48 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 16:49
Quote: "Unlike 360, it looks like they're actually playing games using the system, instead of having a mock-up demo."


How could they fake an on-stage demo, considering the system mimics the exact body movements of the person playing? (because saying it's a mock up is effectively implying it was fake. Unless you meant real game vs. tech demo?)

Unless they choreographed their own body movements down to the millimeter along with timing etc. which seems incredibly unlikely One of those cases where faking it is actually more work than just doing it properly

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Van B
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 17:05 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 17:10
I like nothing more that trying to fudge my brain into working in mirror motion, as I look at the screen and try and move some card indicator thing like a rejected village person. I like a short delay as well, so my antics look ever worse when trying to play a game.

Maybe attach some electrodes, and if I don't react in time then I get electrocuted, possibly killed.

Personally I can't be bothered. Not with new concepts in gaming, I'm talking about these new ideas on how we interact with games. What the hell is wrong with a controller?. Some people work, and when they get home they don't want to flail around the living room like a cut snake. Nintendo aim their games at people who are at home all day with little to do, besides maybe watching Jeremy Kyle. But that's not to say they skimp on their games, they still maintain quality.

My guess is that the problem with controllers is that everybody already has one, and they can only charge a modest amount for one. Give the gamers a wise-cracking goldfish on a stick, that they control by flaring their nostrils, and they'll be happy because they are so stupid.
The difference with the Wii, is that most of those games have substance, they are not gimmicks because they take themselves very seriously sometimes - players can be better or worse, it's not a bit melting pot of generic un-challenging gameplay. These Wii games are not Warioware or Rabbid Rabbits or whatever you call them - there is more to them than MS and Sony are assuming, and it'll kick them both in the butt.

Do we need to think back on Sony's previous attempts at doing anything APART from their old standard controller? Anyone remember EyeToy 1?


Personally, from me, they can both stuff it - cram both their new gadgets and not bother me with any of it. We have an affordable platform for virtual reality for once, and they are more interested in making webcam games and joystick jugglers.
Personally I would develop an all-in gaming chair solution, 3D VR specs, console built in, bolt on accessories like steering wheel, USB controller support, PC hardware based... A full VR station for less than £600, or about the same as you'd spend on a console and a TV. That's my idea a the future of videogames, and I've been waiting 20 years, now it's affordable and has real potential, it's ignored in favor of teaching a virtual monkey how to draw a penis. The market seems to sway, back and forth between hardcore and softcore gaming, and people are being left by the wayside if they don't want to play that particular flavor of the month. Look at GTA4, we go from the crazy Slovac and his greasy cousin, causing general mayhem and having a good time. Now we add on Ballad of Gay Tony, with the dancing, and the casual sex, and not dying when you fall off a building. They took a brilliant game and sold it (again) to people who never liked the game in the first place. People should have just gotten San Andreas, more game, less money, same features.

Shouldn't we be moving FORWARD, not going back to Eyetoy and Seaman and pretending to have relationships with freakin pixels. The facebook generation will come out with some horrific games if we let them.


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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 20:12
Quote: "How could they fake an on-stage demo, considering the system mimics the exact body movements of the person playing? (because saying it's a mock up is effectively implying it was fake. Unless you meant real game vs. tech demo?)"


There were lots of issues with that tech demo video they showed, however. There's that one part where the kid scans his skateboard into the game with his hand covering part of the board. When the board appears in the game it's sans hand, which is a big goof for anyone looking for technical errors. I believe a LOT of that video was faked.


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David R
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 22:00 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 22:03
Quote: "There were lots of issues with that tech demo video they showed, however. There's that one part where the kid scans his skateboard into the game with his hand covering part of the board. When the board appears in the game it's sans hand, which is a big goof for anyone looking for technical errors. I believe a LOT of that video was faked."


Oh yeah, that promo video was clearly a concept thing - but they actually played Ricochet (on stage) at e3 before the promo was released. So you could see what it was capable of now/then, and the promo was hinting toward what they want to do with it in the future.

EDIT: I'm talking about this. Which is way before 'Move' had any substance

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 23:20
David R: I was talking about the Natal commercial which it stated was a mock-up...and that video, Natal looks like a joke.

I'll stick with my Wii if I want to move. Though the thing I like about Wii is most of the games I play I can stay seated comfortably. I like the Wii mote because it gives you the ability to either play standing up and doing motions or actually sitting and being able to mimic motions with a flick of your wrist.

Natal just looks horrible in action...and I thought arcade DDR was horrid...

I agree with VanB on all points.


david w
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 00:42
I also agree with Van B on all points.
Jeku
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 01:37
Quote: "I'll stick with my Wii if I want to move."


The Wii-mote naked (without that new motion add-on) is incredibly incapable of detecting any kind of complex motion whatsoever. The PS3 Move and Natal look to be exponentially more complicated and detecting.


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JLMoondog
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 09:01
Jeku: You've never seen my daughter play Dora Saves the Crystal Kingdom.

I wasn't doubting Natal and Move's tech, just stating if I want to move more then my thumbs to play a game I'll stick with Wii. Seriously if I move too much playing a game I end up falling or doing something embarrassing. Last time my wife and I played tennis I some how flipped backwards slid under the coffee table, and knocked over a full can of monster on my face...

Haven't tried Motion+ yet. Was thinking of getting it with Red Steel 2 this month. I think that was the only frustrating thing about Dragon Quest Swords was having to keep the Wii mote completely level with the screen for most attacks.


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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 10:58
I like the concept, but the controller looks ridiculous. I guess the big fat light on the top is part of the recognition system? Otherwise it's just camp for no good reason.

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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 15:09
Too be honest, this looks good, but only because it is basically a sony rendition of a already established idea, and I also think that Project Natal is no where near the same of the Move or Wii, Wii and Move uses a controller to register, and what I've seen from Project Natal is that you are the controller, but too be honest I won't be surprised if Natal finds itself covered with Gimicks, like swords, guns etc.



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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 00:40
It just looks like a Wii ripoff with a great big ugly ball stuck on top.

Real creative, Sony.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 04:47
Playstation Move is everything that the Wii should have been.

When the Wii was announced, I can imagine most of us thought "Lighsaber game". However, due to its poor motion detection capabilities (and I mean that by the fact it uses accelerometers and not gyroscopic sensors), it could never happen.

The best you can get with the Wii is to frantically wave the controller in the hopes that the game does something you want.

Surely, it is Wii motion plus that is late to the party? Should have been that way from the start.

David R
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 09:54
I wouldn't start criticising the Wii's sensor systems until we know how much these new ones cost

I mean, I can understand Nintendo's strategy with the original Wiimotes. It's cheap tech. They could build the system for cheap, and sell the system for cheap. Far lower risk for them considering they hadn't done so well the previous generation. They didn't use state of the art because they had no idea whether they'd even be part of the next console race, let alone pack leader!

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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 12:55
True, but when you build a console around a motion sensor (the Wii), it seems a little stupid to be stingy on the controller tech.

Considering the camera isn't built into the controller on the PS:Move, they might end up the same price as the Wii controllers.

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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 14:44
This whole idea makes me think of those giant chess sets where the pieces are as big as a person.
At first you think "oooh giant chess" but would you ever actually play a game with it? No.

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 15:10
I dunno, I've had a game of massive chess with my brother, was a great laugh . I won of course, and took great pleasure in kicking his king over.

I wish there were more surreal things like that, very Alice, giant snakes and ladders with real ladders and real snakes - or chutes I suppose. Didn't you ever go to these family places as kids? - one we used to go to had half a dozen pirate ship climbing frames, massive things. We invented a game where you weren't allowed to touch the ground, had to avoid being caught with your cunning and climbing skills - talking about my parents, older brother, everyone including half the people at the park end up playing .
I once broke my ankle during the summer, so I couldn't run around like a wild man - was the worst summer of my life.

The Wii and these new sorts of games are for people who aren't afraid to try on a tea-cosy, really it's for a different market, one that doesn't even want us! - they are targeting the money, because with pre-owned games, piracy, they need to get people who can afford to spend money, namely older adults who might even see Wii games as a bargain for what they get out of it. People who are used to spending £100+ on alcohol at the weekend, deciding to stay in with friends and have a Wii party. That's the market Sony has their eye on, no longer is it the chav-gamer ruling the market - your dad might well have more of a say these days. We'll see more stuff like this, more games like Uncharted and Heavy Rain, and less FPS games.

Maybe it's time for a change though, we might regress back to the PC for FPS gameplay, which would boost the PC market again. There's some nice WASD keyboard peripherals out now, maybe PC gaming is due for a boost once MS and Sony change their tactics. Shortly after this they will be going onto 3D gaming, so I don't think this living-room gamer thing is going to last very long - 3D games will shift the market onto realistic games again.


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Aaagreen
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 15:17
I don't like the way Nintendo is going with all this Wii Fit/Wii Sports crap. I just want classic platformers like the good ol' N64 days, not games where you have to implement effort

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 15:54
Aaagreen: Mario Galaxy 2 is being released soon. The new Megaman is out as well. There are some great games for the Wii that don't involve getting up and moving your butt.


Aaagreen
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 15:58
Mario Galaxy 2 eh? The first one wasn't too bad, but it was no Mario 64.

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 16:13
Quote: "Mario Galaxy 2 eh? The first one wasn't too bad, but it was no Mario 64."


But then what is? (except maybe Mario 64 DS) - I still play it on my DS in fact, multi-player with my nephews who think it's the coolest DS game out there. I'm tempted to agree with them. I don't know why there's no original DS games with that sort of depth.


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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 18:58
Super Mario Galaxy was FANTASTIC. I absolutely love it. I also love SM64. But SMG added so many new elements to the Mario series, I think it's my new favorite. I'm not really sure what they'll do to top it...I think they pretty much went past the bar after raising it and are now out of ideas, which is why they're making a second SMG.


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 20th Mar 2010 17:19
Natal > Move > Wii. And I thought Arc was a much better name for the controller, and will probably be calling it that regardless.

Also, I'm so tired of the marketing tread to name something as simple as possible, that way, when you use the word, you get free marketing! Move... psh.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Mar 2010 17:23
A: Hang on a minute, I'm off for a wee!

B: We don't have a Wii!

A: Then I'll buy one.


I can see your point.

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