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Geek Culture / Microchips...

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Indicium
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:33
The scifi thread got me thinking... why the hell do we have to have microchips? I mean, not because they're not useful.

Why can't we just have chips?

Surely something 100x bigger would be... 100x more powerful? Fair enough in laptops they would have to be small, but why not desktops?

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Satchmo
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:37
Latencies, cost of materials some other things I guess.

Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:37
because you don't need 100x more powerful?


Indicium
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:40
Quote: "because you don't need 100x more powerful?"


Why not? Things are getting more advanced and we need faster processors.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:44
okay, so it might be nice to have 100X the processing power for a toy RC airplane, but it isn't necessary, and the extra size and cost would be unwelcome.


budokaiman
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:48
I read this article a while ago, and I think that it fits well here.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2010/02/graphene-fets-promise-100-ghz-operation.ars

ionstream
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:52
Quote: "Surely something 100x bigger would be... 100x more powerful?"


If you were to simply scale up the size of an ordinary chip 100 times without changing how it works, that chip would certainly be much slower and probably fail to function at all. It would got hot easily and eat up power like no other.

Indicium
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 00:52
Wow that's cool

@Neuro Fuzzy: Yeah I see where you're coming from, but in the context of desktop computers ect. why do we use microprocessors?

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 06:34
for micro tasks so as to not eat up processor usage?

Besides, if you want 100x the product it would probably be ~100x the price (assuming cost per square cm manufactured is linear). It's like asking why every car isn't a bus, or why every bathtub isn't a swimming pool.


JoelJ
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 07:20
because as fast as electricity is, it still takes time for it to travel from point A to point B. If you can make everything closer together, it goes faster.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 08:04
I don't think that's really a noticeable factor?

wait... just calculated it out, at 2.4GHZ, the speed of my processor, in one cycle, light can travel 12.5 cm (i'm don't know much about electricity, but I THINK the energy travels at the speed of light).

hmm...


Lonnehart
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 08:51 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 08:53
So what's next? The "Bio-Organic" chip? Using microscopic neurons and nerves to achieve even higher calculation speeds but without the associated heat?

Anyways, if we just had chips and plugged everything into them, we'd have to micronize all the other technology. Power Supply, multimedia circuits, etc... and it'd be pretty hard to upgrade. And very VERY expensive for a long time before a return on the research investment is made...

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 08:53
so what we have now will never eer get any faster, this is good news for me, nowing this tells me i can build my game at the speed its at. then not have to worrie about things getting so fast and better that my game will be out dated like an old atari game.

dark coder
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 17:09 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 17:09
Because a larger processor means more heat, and communication across it is delayed more and more thus ultimately you'd be forced to find a happy medium between physically possible size and processing power, and that's why they're this size. Instead of making huge processors, it would be better to have lots of small ones, maybe they could be connected across a network of some kind, why has no one though of this?


Quote: "so what we have now will never eer get any faster, this is good news for me, nowing this tells me i can build my game at the speed its at. then not have to worrie about things getting so fast and better that my game will be out dated like an old atari game."


Yes, No.

Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 17:11
Quote: "Instead of making huge processors, it would be better to have lots of small ones, maybe they could be connected across a network of some kind, why has no one though of this?"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-core_processor
Van B
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 17:22
Nano technology is the new thing with semiconductors. With nano-mechanical parts, motors, gears, valves, sensors, relays etc - well the future might not involve making what we have smaller, but maybe optimizing everything else to be smaller.
For decades people have made processors smaller and smaller, but then look at your PC power supply, why does that have to be a shoe box and the processor have to be an after-8 mint?

Imagine a high power relay, or amplifier on a microprocessor - it's a case of doing more with what we have, not making it very much smaller.

There's a finite limit to what we can do realistically with quality - the smaller the chips go, the more likely they are to fail, or rather be mis-processed and eventually give up. Going smaller has limited benefits, but expanding on what technology can be processed onto the chip is all win. We might see the end of big, bulky, hot, and expensive power supplies. We might see nano-hard drives, writing data directly onto diffused silicon. We might see tiny blenders, working their way through our blood, eating up cholesterol. We might see automatic insulin dispensers implanted into Diabetics stomachs, which pump insulin automatically depending on the demands of your system

There are implications all over the place, don't think for one second that things have slowed down . The company I work for has Britain's only, nano-technology (MEMS) wafer fab - at least I think that's still the case. Some of the ideas are incredible, there are still a lot of really inventive people in this country - especially in the physics-heavy universities in England.


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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 22:57
Quote: "so what we have now will never eer get any faster"


Ehhhhhhhnt! Not necessarily.

Computer scientists are currently engineering and experimenting with ways to make processors run at a good 97% faster than they do now (around 88 to 100GHz is what they hope for, which is a heckuva lot faster than 3.66GHz processors that are pretty commonplace today). This will be accomplished with either diamonds and/or graphene, like the article budokaiman linked us all to earlier. Since things like graphics cards also use their own processor(s) for video/games, we can expect an increase in speed of those as well sometime in the coming decades (probably 25-30 years). Even then, though, I'm sure places like the government and NASA will be the top priorities of the newish technology, and we'll likely only get 25% of that available speed (if not less) as consumers. In short, things will get faster, but not for a little while yet.


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lazerus
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 23:10
"At the point of entripy we evolve"

When, not if, we reach the technology stalement, where no progress is made towards our advance, we will be forced to find a new solution. Thats the great thing about us, when it really counts, as a whole we will pull through.

I dont know what the solution will be, there are innumerable ideas to choose from. Anyway, im looking forward to the bio-mechanical computers.

When we reach that stage i think ill already be dead but heres hoping ehh?

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