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Geek Culture / Choosing a new OS - HELP!

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 01:28
Quote: "Either that, or you are just copying what others say. Or you are an Apple fanboy spreading the hate."


Didn't I just say I hate Macs?
David R
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 01:31 Edited at: 24th Mar 2010 01:31
Quote: "Didn't I just say I hate Macs?"


Lemonade was adding an additional caveat/point on top of what you had already said, not aiming it at you

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 02:10
@Lemonade

I know... but if I'm not harsh, people won't get what I'm trying to say. If you peacefully state your opinion and move on without a fight, people reading the conversation can leave it misinformed - which is why I rarely take the high road on an argument on this topic.

If OSX gains more market share, they could ruin the idea of personal computing. The horrible grip apple gains over the users is terrible - they're the totalitarian dictators that we must avoid ruling us. A world where a distributor removes your applications because it slightly offends them or poses a barely possible competition is not a world I want to see.


@David

I wasn't directly responding to your argument, sorry for the confusion. I was attacking the general range of mac arguments as compactly as I could.


@Joel

When I say stuff like that, I know it's purely my opinion - I don't intend to market it as fact. When mac fanboys argue that their OS is better, I *pray* they aren't serious either.

I have extreme hatred for macs... I think it may partly be because of how snobbish mac fanboys act. I know windows is overpriced for software though, trust me. If it weren't for photoshop and my games I would be using either ubuntu or linux mint.

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 03:25
Quote: "But just the other day I got my copy of Snow Leopard that only cost me $25."


But you can only install that on a mac(legally), right?
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 03:48
In my experience...

Windows: Great for all-purpose work but rather "resource heavy" unless you go with the cheaper versions. Great for gaming since nearly all games use DirectX and not OpenGL.

Macintosh: Great for video editing, photo editing and music production. Has better memory management for some tasks and is more widely supported in the film industry than Windows (not sure why, it just is).

Ubuntu GNU/Linux: Good for programming and casual tasks. Requires a little more knowledge for working with command-line terminals, and since it's open-source not every piece of hardware in the world is supported. All software is free and easy to install through the Ubuntu Software Center. Support for video editing and other forms of media is steadily increasing. Gaming is very casual and rather limited.

All in all, it ultimately boils down to what exactly the individual needs. Personally, I'm absolutely loving Ubuntu right now and plan to migrate over to a Mac for video editing ASAP. I see myself using Windows less and less except for gaming.


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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 03:59
Quote: "But you can only install that on a mac(legally), right?"

Yeah, I have a Mac Mini that I got for iPhone dev.

Quote: "I'm typing on a Mac right now and I hate it. Sure it's good for work, but I don't like working so go figure. They're too sluggish, too hard to find what you want and bloody impossible to get games to work on it. Yes there's boot camp but if I have a partition I can't use it for some retarded reason.

And there's bloody nothing wrong with Vista, if you've had bad experiences with it, you don't know how to use it properly."

am I the only who thinks that post is hilariously hypocritical?

I think that's the problem people have with Vista, Mac, and Ubuntu (even desktop distros of linux generally): They don't understand how they use them so they get frustrated and decide that it's the OS's fault. I learned to use Ubuntu well, and now I miss it whenever I use Mac or Windows and get a little frustrated with the differences.

What I want is Ubuntu that can do iPhone development (legally) and run all windows apps that I want to without a problem.

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bergice
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 14:49 Edited at: 24th Mar 2010 14:49
I love how this thread became a mac vs computer flaming war



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BearCDP
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 21:00 Edited at: 24th Mar 2010 21:00
Quote: "I think that's the problem people have with Vista, Mac, and Ubuntu (even desktop distros of linux generally): They don't understand how they use them so they get frustrated and decide that it's the OS's fault. I learned to use Ubuntu well, and now I miss it whenever I use Mac or Windows and get a little frustrated with the differences."


That's the root of it. The primary reason Vista and the new version of Office never caught on with business is not because of security or stability issues: it's because it would costa lot of money to train the legions of stubborn employees who freak out about the new Office ribbon or the fact that it's now called "Computer" instead of "My Computer".

If you want to "Show Desktop" on Mac, it's Command+F3 (with function keys turned on, otherwise it's just F11). If you want to be able to tab between buttons on dialogs Windows-style, then turn that option on in System Preferences. If you want to write to NTFS partitions, install MacFUSE. If you want a way to quickly type application names to run as with Vista search, use Silverlight or install Butler or Quicksilver.

I had to do similar tweaking to Windows XP to get it running the way I wanted, same goes for Ubuntu (ESPECIALLY Ubuntu, it's just the nature of Linux, not a knock against it, that's half the fun). I choose Mac because I like the option of being able to use OS X, Windows, and Linux all on one Machine. Also, for my music production, I personally found Logic Studio to be the easiest and flexible to work with (excluding that it won't read VST, but that's what Rewire and Ableton, Bidule or MaxMSP is for). And anyone who has used the native IAC driver can attest to its usefulness. Also, my MacBook has built-in FireWire 800 ports, which is essentially for streaming audio to and from external disks--unless you get eSATA of course.

I also don't feel the need to install Linux on my Mac, considering it's Unix under the hood anyway. ssh, subversion (after an update), grep, and many other nice *nix commands work fine on it. And, for programming, many popular IDEs for Linux are cross-platform, and compiling under Mac is very similar to compiling under Linux. If you're writing a sockets program, you'd still include "arpa/inet.h", "netdb.h", and "sys/socket.h", because you're still compiling with gcc (though you'll likely need to update it). Eclipse and Netbeans run great for OS X, so no need to fiddle with that XCode crap, unless you feel the need to torture yourself with Objective-C.

Can't say much about 7, I tried it a couple times and it seemed pretty sweet. I didn't have too much of a problem with Vista, but again never used it extensively. Go with whatever instinctively feels good to you after making sure all the software you want to use will run well on the various platforms.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 05:02
Quote: "so no need to fiddle with that XCode crap, unless you feel the need to torture yourself with Objective-C."

I've been using Xcode/Objective-c for quite a while now... and I'll keep using them. Those who love them say that they will eventually become wonderful and nice. I'll tell you what, they are awful to use... but whatever. I only use them for iPhone development, and the experience will pay off one day if I ever end up in a job where I need to use them.

And the thing I hate the most about OS X is Finder (Explorer in Windows) and the Dock. I just can't stand them. And it's not that things are iconized in the Dock, because I LOVE the Windows 7 style taskbar. I just don't like the way mac chose to do it. Beside those two, I like my mac well enough

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Satchmo
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 05:16
How would I upgrade my old Ubuntu to a new distro? I think I have the one before Jaunty Jackelope.

JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 05:21
System->Administration->Update Manager->Settings...->Under "Release upgrade" make sure you have "Normal Releases" selected->Close->Check and it should say something like "A new Distribution Update is available" and you click the button it gives you, and it should download/install everything for you.

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Satchmo
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 05:22
Thanks. Also, I kind of messed up the interface on mine(desktop), how do I reset? Everything else is as it was when I installed it.

JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 06:01
You can do this in the terminal:

or just move the folder elsewhere if you want to back it up.
Log out of Gnome, then back in.
source

Or you can open the file browser, go to your home folder, press CTR+H to reveal hidden folders, open .gconf folder (notice the '.'), then apps, then move or delete the panel folder.

I didn't test this, it was just the first google result. Gnome should load it's default settings when it doesn't find that folder. If it's not there let me know

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 25th Mar 2010 18:48
Windows 7

Its actually as good as I hoped it would be for once.

Satchmo
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Posted: 26th Mar 2010 02:19
So I upgraded, and it only brought me up to hardy heron, 8.04! I want to get 9.10, but the upgrade manager doesn't see any new packages.

That trick works for resetting the interface btw.

JoelJ
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Posted: 26th Mar 2010 03:42
Satchmo: does this help at all? http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading

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Satchmo
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Posted: 26th Mar 2010 21:37
Yes, yes that does.

Alright so I'm all up to date now, and I gotta say, I am impressed. The interface is nicer(both the login and otherwise, I'm using the darkroom theme), but I'm still having the same problem with my wireless internet. It doesn't recognize my adapter, I'm not even sure if it sees that it's plugged in, but I know the adapter works because I use it in windows.

I dled the linux drivers but I have no clue how to use them, can someone guide me? Here is the readme:



I have no experience with the terminal so please explain things throughly.

Jeku
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Posted: 26th Mar 2010 22:40 Edited at: 26th Mar 2010 22:41
Quote: "When people make blanket statements like this, alarm bells ring out of "Never used one""


And that is in itself a blanket statement covering all people that think Macs are terrible.

I have used one to make an iPhone game and haven't turned it on since last year. I think it feels like an inferior platform when trying it out after being a PC user for almost 20 years. I can't narrow it down to a major gripe, but rather a bunch of small annoyances that add up. Primarily I just get an overall better satisfaction from using Windows, and in most ways it can't be put into words.

Quote: "I've been using Xcode/Objective-c for quite a while now... and I'll keep using them. Those who love them say that they will eventually become wonderful and nice. I'll tell you what, they are awful to use... but whatever. I only use them for iPhone development, and the experience will pay off one day if I ever end up in a job where I need to use them."


Ugh, Xcode's interface is horrendous. I also can't stand working with Objective-C, and I consider myself a proficient C and C++ programmer.

A lot of people swear by Objective-C, however, but this boils down to the amazing thing about personality differences. Getting trained on Visual Studio since around version 5, which most people would agree is *the* de-facto world class programming IDE, makes it difficult to migrate to anything less than stellar.


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David R
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Posted: 27th Mar 2010 00:17 Edited at: 27th Mar 2010 00:22
Quote: "And that is in itself a blanket statement covering all people that think Macs are terrible."


No, the 'statements like that' I was referring to were "They suck" without reason or explanation...

Quote: "I can't narrow it down to a major gripe, but rather a bunch of small annoyances that add up. "


...lo and behold: None of which you can you specify

If I or anyone else said something was rubbish, you'd expect reason. Otherwise it just sounds like (as I mentioned before) someone chipping in with no actual experience of using whatever it is

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JoelJ
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Posted: 27th Mar 2010 02:31
I honestly don't like the global menu bar. I don't like the dock, mostly because of the way it dynamically resizes and handles minimized windows. I don't like Finder, especially the Icon view (the different list views are alright) and the lack of a URL bar that I can type in.

However, I *LOVE* the way you install applications - dragging the app file to the applications folder - and uninstalling - simply deleting the file from the applications folder. Of course there's a few exceptions to that, but overall that's my favorite feature of OS X.

Quote: "Ugh, Xcode's interface is horrendous."

The worst is the error messages (the blame can be put on the compiler, but I choose to blame xcode because it could give me more information even if the compiler chooses not to). I can get over the rest, but the lack of information it gives me when something goes wrong drives me up the wall. For example, yesterday I forgot to add a reference to a .framework in my project. The autocomplete worked the same as if I did, and I got no errors until I compiled. It gives me some worthless error (it's not as worthless now that I know what it means, but to someone who's never seen the error before, it's worthless). I spent 10-15 minutes (luckily it wasn't more) trying to hunt down where I mistyped something or something. Finally I realized what I had done.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Mar 2010 08:51
Quote: "I love how this thread became a mac vs computer flaming war"


Isn't that what you intended?

BearCDP
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Posted: 28th Mar 2010 10:54
Let's hear it for Solaris!

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2010 15:00
I myself am a fan of windows...And yes, I have tried a mac.

It was a school mac, so take my review with a grain of salt...In my opinion it was too flashy. Trying to add too many useless features and not enough good ones. The dock came in handy sometimes, however I quickly overloaded it.

Windows, which I have used all my life, I like. It may just be the fact that I am familiar with it, but I like it. Is is simple, streamlined, and comes with things that are useful. The gaming support doesn't hurt either.

As for other OS's...Meh, never tried them. I'm happy with Windows 7.

Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2010 21:46 Edited at: 28th Mar 2010 21:47
Quote: "...lo and behold: None of which you can you specify"


How about, lo and behold I hated it so much that I haven't turned it on in almost a year, and I'd be wasting brain cells trying to think and remember what every little problem is? How about, lo and behold I already wrote threads and posts in this very forum about the problems I've had, back when I had them last year?

Quote: "Otherwise it just sounds like (as I mentioned before) someone chipping in with no actual experience of using whatever it is"


No ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, good one there. How about a finished iPhone game?


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David R
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Posted: 29th Mar 2010 01:00 Edited at: 29th Mar 2010 01:15
Yes. Clearly I was directing all of my comments squarely at you, and I wasn't just trying to explain my previous posts

Seriously, there really is no point in this. You make everything personal for no good reason.

EDIT:

Notice this:
Quote: "If I or anyone else said something was rubbish, you'd expect reason. Otherwise it just sounds like (as I mentioned before) someone chipping in with no actual experience of using whatever it is"


versus, for example:

Quote: "You said something was rubbish, and I expect reason. Otherwise it just sounds like (as I mentioned before) you are chipping in with no actual experience of using whatever it is"


I was explaining my blanket-statement rant. Not directly implicating you.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 29th Mar 2010 01:04
David, everything you said was clearly aimed a Jeku because you quoted him and responded. Don't be an ass.

Personally I've never used anything other than windows, and only XP and Vista, but I have to say I like a Vista a lot more than XP. I know that seems weird but it just seem easier to use.

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David R
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Posted: 29th Mar 2010 01:08 Edited at: 29th Mar 2010 01:16
Quote: "David, everything you said was clearly aimed a Jeku because you quoted him and responded. Don't be an ass."


No, it bloody well wasn't! He quoted my post, and I responded to explain what I meant (as well as showing that what he said was a perfect example of substance-less criticism: If you're going to criticise something the best intentioned "It wasn't very good" without reason is as flawed as "LOL IT SUX".)

If I wanted to explicitly say "You're talking garbage you have no experience" I would damn well say it. I don't mince my words, I thought that'd be obvious by now

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Mar 2010 04:12 Edited at: 29th Mar 2010 04:14
Quote: "Yes. Clearly I was directing all of my comments squarely at you, and I wasn't just trying to explain my previous posts"


I only posted in this thread once, and I didn't say your comments before that were "all aimed at me". But when I posted the very first time, you quoted me twice and aimed it at me directly. And you did it in a "you're an idiot" tone, right off the getgo, which everyone is annoyed by. Like has been said in this thread and a dozen others: quit target-arguing with everything I'm saying. Just try it for a week, you might like it!

People are free to have their own opinions, and mine is just as valid as yours, because I have solid proof of using the OS. Feel free to dig up all my posts on this topic from the past 2 YEARS where I posted my annoyances regarding OSX and Apple computers in general.


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Xivoo
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Posted: 30th Mar 2010 01:01
OSX is a good Operating System if you can afford a Mac. If you can't then take Windows 7. Seriously, it's the best Windows OS I have ever used. Paired with a Radeon HD5000 it allows you to play DX11 games, it's quite secure if you keep the UAC enabled and install an antivirus like Microsoft Security Essentials.

I have a dual boot for a Linux distribution as well. If you're really interested in Linux but want an easy out-of-the-box solution, then try out Linux Mint. It's based on Ubuntu but comes with all the proprietary software and codecs Ubuntu refuses (you can install them with Ubuntu as well, don't get me wrong).

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 31st Mar 2010 15:39 Edited at: 31st Mar 2010 15:44
Windows ME

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A dude
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 01:48
Windows 7!
Little Bill
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Posted: 1st Apr 2010 17:20
Windows 7 by far.

Mac's to me are more of a fashion object. "Oh look at me I have Mac". If you can afford apples hefty price tag then fine, go ahead. I'll just go over here to my PC that can do everything your Mac can do and more for a lower price.

I also dual boot Ubuntu with Windows 7. So good for just simple tasks, but at the end of the day, Windows 7 can do so much more and it's really not that expensive.

Yes, I have used Macs, so don't try to fall back on that excuse

AriEf
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 10:42
because windows xp os proved the most stable for gaming, why do not you just use windows xp?

Im Indonesian, so I cant speak english
A dude
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 23:45 Edited at: 4th Apr 2010 23:45
Windows Xp sucks.
The security, and graphics suck.
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 00:03
Quote: "Windows Xp sucks.
The security, and graphics suck."


Well, yeah, I mean it *is* nearly a decade old. An OS that old is bound to be insecure and have sucky graphics.

Quote: "because windows xp os proved the most stable for gaming, why do not you just use windows xp?"


XP was great in its day, but gaming is kind of outdated on it now. The latest games use DirectX 10+, so...yeah. I think XP only supports up to 9.0c, but I'm not certain. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 00:13
Yeah, MS decided to make it so Direct X 10 wouldn't work with XP. XP was a great OS after SP2, which made it really stable and it uses barely any resources in comparison to Vista, sure it isn't pretty, but it was very good. Before SP2, I had problem after problem, but fewer than I encountered with Windows 98. :S

As a Vista user, I've longed for acquiring XP on disk, that was until I installed the Windows 7 beta, which, sadly, has ran out and I haven't had the cash to buy the full version. Unless I want to spend £10 a week on food.

Windows 7 is shiny, responsive and less of a resource hog, the difference is noticeable, especially from Vista. I didn't mind Vista when my laptop wasn't having overheating problems, but I suppose it's resource hogginess is more noticeable when you don't have a lot of power at your disposal...7 on the other hand, still runs like a dream for me...well, until I had to stop using it.

Indicium
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 04:41
Quote: "The latest games use DirectX 10+"


They do?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 04:44
Well, that's what I thought...

Hasn't DirectX 10 been around since Vista's release? Surely games have adapted and use DX 10 now?

Not sure why I added the "+" in my previous post...


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BearCDP
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 05:26
I was under the impression that it's the opposite. I know Dragon Age is only DX 9.

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Indicium
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 21:26
Sorry for mentioning this game but...


uses DirectX 9

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JoelJ
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 21:58
Quote: "Not sure why I added the "+" in my previous post..."

Because Win7 shipped with Dx11.

I wouldn't say most new games are shipping with 10, but I would say that the future is looking that way.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 22:05
Yeah, I was kind of thinking for DX10 to be successful, people needed to stop using Windows XP and with people feeling Vista wasn't worth the upgrade, developing for DX10 only would be foolish and would take too much effort to do both, when the differences in appearance would be significant.

I played Bioshock in DX10, I found it to run smoother, but there wasn't a noticeable difference in quality.

Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Apr 2010 22:25
While this isn't precisely what the current topic is about, I thought I'd post this as it seems pretty interesting: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/.

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