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Geek Culture / Infinite mirrors - what would happen?

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 07:48
If you say took 2 mirrors and, mathematicly speaking, you faced them perfectly at eachother what would you see? I'm guessing just black-ness.

Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 08:06 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 08:08
How exactly would you view the mirrors without absorbing the light?

Two mirrors will just constantly bounce light back at each other (as long as no light is allowed to escape). If there's no light, then yes it'll be just blackness (just as inside a sealed box there is no light).
BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 08:38
but inside a box of mirrors, if light could never escape, shouldn't it glow with the light that was present when the box was sealed?

Dragon Knight
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 08:48 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 08:54
if it glowed it would be releasing the light, and there for not hold onto it.

only if the box is completely sealed with light in it and then when you open the box and it'll be a split micro second as the light escapes pretty fast.

So technically we can... store light, it'd have to be in a vacuum, along with completely mirrored. I wonder though.. if energy is used with it moving, eventually the light will cease..?

What would be the energy loss..:
Heat would be the obvious one I think..
Movement?

BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 11:09
I agree with it not glowing...I stated that without thinking...but you would assume that the light would stay in the box.

Why would it need a vacuum?

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 12:17
None of you have answered Benjamin's vital question:

Quote: "How exactly would you view the mirrors without absorbing the light?"


which was in response to the original question:

Quote: "what would you see?"
BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 12:41
That makes sense. Must have missed that.

Any instrument, including our eyes, cameras, etc would all absorb the light, and therefore make it dark.

So in other words, we have to believe its there, but can never see it or observe it. Its one of those "If a tree were to fall in the forest, and no one was around to hear it, would it still make noise?" questions.

TheComet
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 12:57
They would look like normal mirrors from any other angle than perpendicular to them. The more you near perpendicular view, the darker they get.

TheComet

lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 12:58 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2010 12:59
I have a infinite candle which is pretty cool. Ill google a pic now;



The four sides are one way mirrors which reflect back on each other. Its the same principle but its imperfect so there is a horizon where nothing can be seen anymore. I have a 2x2 one and i counted to, 32 i think its was.

Isnt this like the cat thing? we assume that the cat in the box is alive or something.

Dia
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 15:20
are we talking hypothetical supermirrors that have 100% linear reflection rather than quantum scattering?

This is not the Sig you are looking for....
AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 17:16
Where does the light come from? In order for it to travel perpendicular to the mirrors (and thus bounce off in exactly the same direction that it came from), there will need to be a source between the two mirrors, and the light will hit this source when it bounces off one mirror and heads for the other one. And then of course as Dia said there's scattering to consider, and there's the fact that in order to actually observe this phenomenon you would have to be standing in between the mirrors and thus obstructing the endless reflection back and forth.

i like orange
TheComet
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 17:19
Quote: "In order for it to travel perpendicular to the mirrors (and thus bounce off in exactly the same direction that it came from), there will need to be a source between the two mirrors, and the light will hit this source when it bounces off one mirror and heads for the other one."


Nope, there wouldn't. Light scatters, and therefor there would be some photons that randomly happen to be bouncing between the two mirrors. But they would scatter again and escape.

TheComet

AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 17:26
Quote: "Nope, there wouldn't. Light scatters, and therefor there would be some photons that randomly happen to be bouncing between the two mirrors. But they would scatter again and escape."


Did you finish reading my post?

Quote: "And then of course as Dia said there's scattering to consider"


i like orange
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 18:36
Couldn't you use one of those see through mirrors like the police do?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2010 20:31
those police mirrors allow some light to escape through without bouncing off, thus, eventually all the light would escape.

Monk
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 00:59
Even if you had an invisible head and managed to put a hand full of photons travelling perpendicular between the two mirrors, wouldn't you see it start as a bright reflection getting dimmer (ignoring the fact your eyes absorb some of the light) due to the energy loss as the light bounces off the mirror?

Diggsey
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 02:06
Light always diffracts, that's why you can never have a perfect laser. The larger the gap a wave travels through the less it diffracts, but you can only get zero diffraction in an infinitely large gap. (Which is obviously impossible when you have a mirror at each end).

And of course mirrors aren't perfect so energy will be lost.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 07:03
Quote: "And of course mirrors aren't perfect so energy will be lost."


Good point as well.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
Current Project: http://strewnfield.wordpress.com/ (Last updated 06/11/09)
DarkJames
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2010 07:59
in a mall.. here in argentina there are two mirrors facing each other (Males Bath)
and it pretty looks like you cant see the end, and of course there isnt, each mirror reflects to a mirror wich creats a mirror effect going to the oposite side...(wich is another mirror) and do this til light is fully absorbed


"Feel free in a world of madness,be the bright spot"
-Bloody James
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 00:23
Is this proof that we change things by observing them?

Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 03:45
Since an ideal mirror would only reflect light and not alter it's color, and since this light would be trapped, you would see whatever light was trapped in the first place.

I think the more interesting view of this would be from a philosophical perspective... what would happen if an object that look like whatever it saw saw itself?


JLMoondog
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 04:07
What if you created a Dyson sphere that was made up of mirrors on the inside, and then the star died...what would you see(assuming the sphere is large enough that the star won't effect it)?


General Jackson
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Posted: 4th Apr 2010 05:09
Quote: "If you say took 2 mirrors and, mathematicly speaking, you faced them perfectly at eachother what would you see?"

You would die.

Dark Dragon
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Posted: 7th Apr 2010 22:24
Quote: "Quote: "If you say took 2 mirrors and, mathematicly speaking, you faced them perfectly at eachother what would you see?"
You would die."


Lol.........................wait, What?

(\__/) HHAHAHAHAHAH!
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Metal Devil123
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Posted: 10th Apr 2010 21:57
What would happen if you break all those mirrors!

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things that I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
General Jackson
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 04:53
Quote: "Infinite mirrors - what would happen?"

The world would implode.

BMacZero
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 05:30
Quote: "What if you created a Dyson sphere that was made up of mirrors on the inside, and then the star died...what would you see(assuming the sphere is large enough that the star won't effect it)? "

*head broke*

Irojo
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 02:56
I have created a solution to view the light.

Light produces heat, thus, using a thermal camera from the OUTSIDE of the mirrors, you can effectively view what the light is doing, without disturbing it.

Now find the flaw which probably exists.


Time is money. I just ripped you off.
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 03:00 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 03:02
Angles.

You could not view the entire thing from an angle. And if it was right there in the middle the camera would mess it up.

Owned.

Oh yeah, and the quantum scattering, etc.

Going back a bit...

Quote: "Why would it need a vacuum?"


Because otherwise it would heat the air, and lose energy.

I looove physics.

BMacZero
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 03:02 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 03:02
Quote: "I have created a solution to view the light.

Light produces heat, thus, using a thermal camera from the OUTSIDE of the mirrors, you can effectively view what the light is doing, without disturbing it.

Now find the flaw which probably exists. "

Yeah . Flaw: if heat is being generated, it is being generated because the mirrors are imperfect and are absorbing some of the light. Thus the light is losing energy and will quickly disappear. This also answers the question of why light will not remain infinitely in a mirrored box.

Irojo
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 03:06
Aw man.

Well, it sounded good at first!


Time is money. I just ripped you off.
Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 05:40
So wait, if you took a box of mirrors and shone a light into it, then sealed up the box and turned the lights out. Could you then open the box and see the reflected light in the darkness?

I bet there is someone on here who could work out how long the light would take to fade. I bet it is less than a tenth of a second seeing how fast light travels.

Irojo
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 05:50
What if you set the temperature to 0 degrees Kelvin, and put it in a vacuum?

Wouldn't that create a perfect mirror? The molecules couldn't move except from their previous momentum, and it would have no friction, so the light wouldn't stop moving.

That still doesn't solve looking in at it though :p


Time is money. I just ripped you off.
JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 10:18
Where's Q when you need him?

So what if you have a light source then surround it with a box(or sphere) made with a half-silver surface(half the light is reflected back inside, other half escapes). You stand on the outside, but then you and the box are surrounded in a perfect mirror box(or sphere). Would this then make it possible to see?

Not sure if it would work or not...the light within the inner section would have to stay brighter then the outer section...I don't know, 3:17am, brain not awake.


dark coder
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 12:36
Quote: "So what if you have a light source then surround it with a box(or sphere) made with a half-silver surface(half the light is reflected back inside, other half escapes). You stand on the outside, but then you and the box are surrounded in a perfect mirror box(or sphere). Would this then make it possible to see? "


Would it make it possible to see what? If the light source container was a sphere and the light source was a perfect point light(no radius) and it was in a perfect vacuum, then the majority of what you would see would be the light source, the light reflected from the 2 immediate mirrors exactly behind the light source(which would be virtually indistinguishable from the light source itself) as well as the parts of your body that have a line of sight to the light source. There would be a very faint reflection from the reflected and emitted light from your body too.

If your inner container was a box and/or your light source had a radius, then you would also see some illumination from surrounding points on both mirrors. But if it's the first scenario then the majority of the light would not be visible to you and would pretty much indefinitely bounce back and forth along a line. So if you left the light on for a while then moved, you'd find yourself severely burned as you come into contact with these areas. You'd also want to tie yourself to the side of the mirror so you don't slowly drift to the other side .

JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 18:14
Ah sorry, I was trying to answer how you would find this out:
Quote: "but inside a box of mirrors, if light could never escape, shouldn't it glow with the light that was present when the box was sealed?"


I originally suggested a Dyson sphere, then there was a debate on how you would see into the box, and I made the suggestion above.

I think I confused myself more then anyone else.


Monk
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Posted: 14th Apr 2010 10:00
Quote: "What if you set the temperature to 0 degrees Kelvin, and put it in a vacuum?

Wouldn't that create a perfect mirror? The molecules couldn't move except from their previous momentum, and it would have no friction, so the light wouldn't stop moving."


I think that at 0 K things get a little bit more complicated than this. The molecules don't just stop moving, else they'd violate Quantum Mechanics... So it's hard to say what would happen.

Libervurto
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Posted: 15th Apr 2010 05:27
This is a cool idea though, I can imagine some sort of Discworld adventure where you have to capture light in your "lightbox" from a special place.
That's such a warped idea it must have been done before.

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