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Geek Culture / Simple games vs graphically impressive games - WHICH?

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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 06:21
Which would you Rather play...........A Game thats incredibly fast paced, action packed, and hardcore with 8 bit graphics and 2 colors( ), or a Game that sucks gameplay wise, But has the quality of a HollyWood movie(Graphics-wise), And most importantly, WHY?

I would definately play that 8-bitter. As much as graphics have advanced since Nintendo 1, Gameplay impacts the most important part of the gamer's mission - to have fun.

How about you? What do you think?

Maindric
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 06:51
Neither.

8 bit, yes, 2 colors, no. There is only so much you can do with 2 colors.

A game fails with no game play value.

ShaunRW
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 12:37
A game is as only good as the gameplay no matter what the graphics look like. But the graphics has to be good enough so the player can recognize whats what.

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 13:35
Yeah...I normally don't care about graphics, but a game can't be fun with 2 colors.

"Is that the player, or the sky?"

And for the record, 8-bit games have 4 colors. Per sprite. So I think you're a little off there.

TheComet
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 13:50
Gameplay is the key to success in a game. You can't have good graphics and no gameplay, so I'd go for the 8-bit.

The NES had an 8-bit processor running at 1.66 MHz, 2KB of RAM, 2KB of video RAM, and 256 bytes of sprite RAM, and could only support cartridge ROM up to 32KB. And guess what? Some games on this console have more gameplay than todays games...

I ask you : Where did the gameplay go to today? (There are some exceptions, but most games SUCK at gameplay)

TheComet

Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 13:57 Edited at: 11th Apr 2010 14:04
Quote: "And for the record, 8-bit games have 4 colors"


Well... some systems that are 8-bit (such as the Game Boy) use a 2-bit colour system, but not all necessary do (the Master System has a larger colour palette). Of course an 8-bit colour resolution itself allows up to 256 colours, but I'm not sure any 8-bit games use such a palette.
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 14:06 Edited at: 11th Apr 2010 14:08
Yeah, I think that's just because the Game Boy can only handle 2 colors, as there are no colors on the screen overall.

I have had experience hacking ROMs and such, and I know that games like Metroid have lots of colors. However, each individual sprite uses only 4 colors. So when editing sprites it appears that they are all made of only 4 colors. You can even pick those colors. Then, those are run through a "palette" and the 4 colors assigned to that sprite are placed on the appropriate spots depending on which of the 4 colors are used when editing them.

So when editing sprites, it may look like everything is red, blue, green, and purple. However, when running through the palette, for the player the red parts might be orange, the blue parts green, the green parts yellow, and the purple parts black. However for the enemy it could be different.

Aaagreen
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 14:14
Quote: "but a game can't be fun with 2 colors"


What about Pong?

Jeku always gets drunk and tries to Moderate the ocean. Tirelessly slapping the waves as they roll in.
Tywald
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 15:04
Quote: "I ask you : Where did the gameplay go to today? (There are some exceptions, but most games SUCK at gameplay)"


It's still there and growing...it's just us "old timers" who have "grown up" and experienced it so much that we no longer gets the same amount of kicks we got when we were "young" and had no experience of videogames.
Hence we think that all games fells the same....when a game of "Crysis" is just as much "gameplay" as Super Mario...but we're incabable of feeling that becuse we have already been there.

- Tywald
Quik
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 15:40 Edited at: 11th Apr 2010 15:41
since iam a graphic freak, i'd say Crysis 2 i want you.

basicly i choose graphic, i cant play 8bit 2 colour games either... XD

but mario.. thats a good game!
and the old Zeldas aswell..

edit:
Quote: "Hence we think that all games fells the same....when a game of "Crysis" is just as much "gameplay" as Super Mario"


well, Crysis did do acually have as much gameplay as.. well, any FPS out there? only with a lot better graphics =)


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Van B
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 15:41
The bit has little to do with how many colours can be supported - as is already said, 8-bit = 1 byte = 256 'possible' colours.
Bitplanes were what made the difference. For instance, a lot of systems used 4-bit bitplanes, so really that's 2 pixels per byte, or 16 colours. 2-bit bitplanes were often used on 8-bit systems, like the C64, but that was just the graphics mode. The 64 could support different bitplanes, and most 8-bit systems could support the Spectrum resolution, with just a pen colour and paper colour, so a 8x8 pixel area would have only 2 colours, but the colours could be changed per row and column. This lended itself well to platform games, a standard grid, that never did Manic Miner and countless others any harm. It also allowed for code portability. Without that mode, we wouldn't have had so many games on the 8-bits.

For me, I think artists are a bit spoiled these days, and actually find myself going MEH at glorious graphics because I know that there's nothing epic that takes several people and systems to do. It's not epic to make a model, it's their bloomin job, and the job of all the other people involved. I'm much more impressed by what 1 guy on their own can produce. It's good to know there are still people out there using reduced colour palettes, which I find more appealing than modern pixel work. Some of the pixel work in SNES RPG's is just incredible.

My own personal favorite style has to be the Bitmap Bros 16-bit games, they took 16 colours and made them work. In their day, nothing came close to the graphic quality. Most games in that time had their art done on the Amiga, which has a more standard 32 colours, but the Bitmap Bros always did a better job on the ST's 16-colours than other developers.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 16:59 Edited at: 11th Apr 2010 17:00
One of my favourite games right now is Cannabalt on the iPhone. Black and white, 8 bit, looks utterly amazing.

And it's good because it's fun.

[center]You can get further with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile.
lazerus
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:17
Avatar the game sums this argument up.

Absolutly crap game play and story, while the enviroment felt 'nice' becasue of the pretty plants and stuff.

Shadowtroid
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:20
Quote: "Absolutly crap game play and story, while the enviroment felt 'nice' becasue of the pretty plants and stuff."


Actually the graphics also sucked. So...Argument invalid?

Again, I like good graphics, but you do not need them.

On a somewhat related note, is Crysis any fun? I was think of getting it, but I've heard it's boring. Anyone?

Van B
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:26
If you don't have Farcry2, then get that instead. It's a really cool game once you get into it, and does not suffer the same issues as Crysis.

Crysis for me was a bit of a dissapointment, it should have been much more free roaming like Farcry. I hate when they spend so much time on visuals then don't bother letting the player explore them properly. FarCry2 has a great balance of freedom and plot, I really got into that, and it's cool map editor for online games makes it probably the longest FPS game for years. In fact, I'm tempted to play it through again and 100% the diamonds (which = weapon upgrades etc) - something I rarely consider these days.


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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:32
Oh. Never thought of that.

So I'll get Far Cry 2 instead...Sounds fun.

Thanks.

Randomness 128
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:43
Quote: "Well... some systems that are 8-bit (such as the Game Boy) use a 2-bit colour system"


Quote: "Yeah, I think that's just because the Game Boy can only handle 2 colors"


But 2-bit colour can give you 4 colours. A limit of 2 colours would actually be 1-bit.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:49
some text adventures are 2 colors, and some of those are great!

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120
charger bandit
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 17:57
I dont care about graphics,as long as I know what im playing and that its fun.


A.K.A djmaster
Tywald
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 18:06
Quote: "well, Crysis did do acually have as much gameplay as.. well, any FPS out there? only with a lot better graphics =)"


I don't disagree that Crysis perhaps didn't bring that much "new things" to the FPS market in terms of game mechanics and perhaps "gameplay" if one has allready played gazillions of FPS games out there.

But that's not my point here....a perhaps young player whit little knowledge and experience about FPS type of games who's playing Crysis is more likely going to get "hooked" and think it's has good "gameplay" than a more experienced one.
After that we can sit down and talk about if the new player is "wrong" about the game having "good" gameplay or not untill everyone's blue in their faces.

Shadowtroid:
Honestly i think that question is like a bomb that's about to explode into a huge debate about it being a "good" game or just a "shiny" but "bad" game.
Personally i think it was "Somewhat good"...but that doesn't really mean anything to you or anyone else becuse everyone reacts differently to games.
It's a game that i felt gave me the most when i was "creative" and used the suits power and the enviroments to my advantage. Either when i had to instantly change tactics during a bad attack and was getting overrun by my enemies, Or when i wanted to "sneak" into the enemy base trying to get into good "sniping" positions and take each one out while they have no idea what's going on.
I think's its better if you watch some movies that shows how the game "plays like" and makes a conclusion from there, no-one is going to be able to tell how much fun YOU'LL GET from the game.

- Tywald
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 18:39 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 18:16
Visuals are important, but not at the expense of creating a fun game.

Dark Dragon
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 18:44
I only meant 2 colors as an exageration................

cool, first time a post of mine got over 21 replies. lol.

Silvester
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 18:47
I'd go for a combination of both, I love a good game and story, but at times I also love wandering about peeking at the scenery a bit.. Like in Dragon Age I can simply just run through some zones for an hour looking at stuff, I loved to look down at the battle in Ostgard and just be amazed how even though it was quite low detail down there, it still looked pretty good and advanced with all the flying rubble, fireballs, arrows etc.


EDP Map Editor[2D]
Benjamin
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 21:00
Quote: "If you don't have Farcry2, then get that instead. It's a really cool game once you get into it, and does not suffer the same issues as Crysis."


I've not played Crysis so I can't really compare the two, but I found Far Cry 2 to be rather repetitive. I like the engine, but the gameplay is just "find this object", "kill this person", "get malaria medicine". It's like the developers concentrated really hard on the engine (on the fire particular as they seemed to like marketing that part the most) but not on the actual game itself. It's a shame.

Of course, I played it all the way to the end.
Shadowtroid
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 21:03
You know what, I'll just get both.

There? That better?

The Slayer
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 22:32
Well, IMO great visuals tend to make people buy the game much faster, but they sometimes lack in terms of fun, gameplay, story and immersion, which will lead to dissapointement upon playing them. While other games don't look as appealing at first, but have a greater replay-factor that makes the user come back for more, and those games last much longer. It's like having a car with the look of a sportscar, but with an engine that fails continuesly or having lots of goodies that don't work.

And, I also think that with the constant evolution in computer-technology, games should have both. But time is money, and software-company's mostly struggle with deadlines and stuff.

But, as proven more than once before: good games don't rely on stunning graphics...

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
lazerus
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 22:43
Monster hunter would a good example for gameplay over graphics.

@Shadowtroid

I found the graphics quite appealing. I just liked the alien nature of it all.

Dark Dragon
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 23:49
Monster Hunter Has both, in my opinion.

n008
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Posted: 12th Apr 2010 03:52
Uhm. I doubt I would enjoy the 8-bit game at all. Being a CGI artist, I'd go with Crysis' pristine graphics over most games. Luckily, most games worth the play also have enjoyable graphics...

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
Irojo
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Posted: 12th Apr 2010 04:01
If anybody has played both roller coaster tycoon 1, and roller coaster tycoon 3, I think they can agree with me when saying it's not the graphics that matter, it's the concept. If you have a good concept, better graphics don't make it better.

It just makes it lag.


Time is money. I just ripped you off.
Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Apr 2010 05:27
My philosophy is that you should have just enough graphics to get across all the information the player needs, any more is porn.

Saying that, my cousin has come up with something quite amazing that might change computer graphics for ever: Unlimited Detail

AndrewT
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Posted: 12th Apr 2010 21:41
If I can manage to spend well over 50 hours on this:



I can definitely bring myself to enjoy 8-bit graphics, and probably even 2-color graphics.

i like orange
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 12th Apr 2010 22:50 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2010 18:18
It's been school holidays here, which means baby sitting my niece and friends at times (8 to 10 y.o). It's interesting watching them play some online games, their ability to cut through the presentation (BS) in a game is surprising good. If it's not fun, they clicked away and found another.

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