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Geek Culture / Your thoughts on "Red Dead Redemption"

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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 20th May 2010 21:14 Edited at: 21st May 2010 00:19
I picked up RED DEAD REDEMPTION the other day and have played it for about 6 hours. From this time in-the-saddle I have some definite thoughts about this game, but before I ramble on about it, I'd like to hear from other people who have played it...

What do you think about it? What worked for you and what didn't?
Oolite
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Posted: 21st May 2010 00:16
I haven't read your post for fear of spoilers.
But its not out over here until tomorrow, some of my mates got it today from early pre orders but I have to pick mine up tomorrow. I can't wait for it, quite possibly going to beat Mass Effect 2 or Bioshock 2 for my Game of the year.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 21st May 2010 00:21
I don't think that I gave any SPOILERS... just general thoughts... but just in case I removed my comments for now.
Matty H
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Posted: 21st May 2010 17:21
Loving the single player, don't really want to try the multi-player yet as it gives away locations you may not yet have been.
Not sure I will like the multiplayer, coming from battlefield/killzone/mag/uncharted2, the auto-aim will take a bit of getting used to. It takes almost no effort/skill to aim, so I guess its more about teamwork, weapon choice etc. Like with any online game, you need to give it a few hours before you can judge.

KeithC
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Posted: 21st May 2010 19:23
I for one won't be buying this game, as a result of the work conditions (and unpaid overtime) placed upon the backs of the developers of Rockstar; as laid out (in part) in this blog.

Until the artists/developers of studios such as this Rockstar studio start standing up for themselves; they will continue to get walked over.

-Keith
Oneka
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Posted: 21st May 2010 19:42
@KeithC bump that, its the fault of the developers for taking it

I am going to buy this game first chance I get, I loved the PS2 one alot and I know this one has got to be just as good or better


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Deathead
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Posted: 21st May 2010 21:01
"@KeithC bump that, its the fault of the developers for taking it"
I agree, also, in financial times like these, sure, companies should still look after employees, but to me it sounds like this "overtime" is just so they can get a game out, earn some money, so next year, there will still be a Rockstar San Diego. It may seem bad in the short run, but I bet you, in the long run they'll benefit. I know, they are stressed, but any job is stressful, and as the Video Game market is now always competitive, they are saving costs, to earn more profits, so employees after release will earn more. Like I said, they just need to wait out for the long run.


Lemonade
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Posted: 21st May 2010 22:01
I'm writing a paper about this specific topic.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 21st May 2010 22:09
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE GAME, OBVIOUSLY TURN BACK NOW!

As far as RED DEAD REDEMPTION...

By now I've logged enough hours of gameplay to say... "I find it (RED DEAD REDEMPTION) 'interesting,' but not really fun to play." Sure, it has an "open world" with lots of side objectives and a long list of things to do -- playing cards, hunting bear, breaking horses, etc. -- but the entire process of playing feels like a sim and less like a game. There are periods in the game where I've actually been bored! Maybe I'm just not a fan of GTA spawn?

RDD is beautiful to look at, but contrary to the hype, it's nowhere near UNCHARTED 2. Yes, the changing day-to-night and various landscapes are nice, but as I sit here at the computer I can't remember one absolutely amazing game-screen. UNCHARTED 2 sticks in the noggin.

I keep reading how great the story and voice acting are for RDD, but I just don't see that. The characters in RDD talk a lot -- TOO MUCH -- and a lot of times I found my mind wandering. The voice casting for RDD was strange as well. For me, the voices didn't really fit the personalities of the characters (I know Red was never supposed to sound a bottle short of a six-pack). When voices don't "fit" the characters and those characters talk and talk and talk and talk and talk... bad combination.

I'm not saying that there aren't good things to RDD, but the feeling I'm starting to get is that Rockstar has taken the idea of "open world" to "open story" -- a search for "absolute realism" -- and in doing so, they've stopped editing dialog, channeling story, and creating a fun experience. They've moved from primarily storytellers and game makers to life sim creators.

As a filmmaker, the first thing we are taught is that we are not depicting life as it occurs. We are taking the chaos that is life, finding a storyline within it, editing out all of the boring or unneeded "scenes" that don't add to that storyline, and displaying what's left onscreen... the essential story. To my mind, most of the best games do this very same thing... only in the case of games teh player plays those most important scenes. Rockstar obviously believes in no editing whatsoever... of creating a world and letting the gamer loose to follow the story, a story... or not.

I'm sure open-world people will take issue, but for my money, RED DEAD REVOLVER was a much more satisfying experience... the game design, play, actors... and it's a very linear game! Strangely, I bought it a few months ago and wasn't able to stop playing until I'd beaten it! It was that fun!

I've not spent much time in the multiplayer of RDD, so I'll save judgement on that, but I will say that so far I'm enjoying LEAD & GOLD: GANGS OF THE WILD WEST more than RDD.

My favorite part of RED DEAD REDEMPTION is those great Spaghetti Western-style posters! Oh well...
KeithC
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 05:42
You guys really need to read more into the subject I've laid out, before coming up with conclusions. You can also check out EA Wives as well, for a similar story.

-Keith
CapnBuzz
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 06:06 Edited at: 22nd May 2010 06:43
First...

Rockstar's sweatshop policies are an important issue. Granted. And, a boycott of Rockstar is admirable -- if you believe that strongly. I would add to that end that Rockstar's policies are endemic to much of the video game industry. Many of the major titles are created under some level of legal duplicity. Does that make it right? No. Does this mean there should be no outcry? No. But it also means that the problem is much much larger than Rockstar Games... and combating such an issue will take political will more than financial boycott. A financial boycott -- if large enough -- can hurt a company, but it will not change the practices of an industry. Please don't take this as an attack or criticism... just my perspective.

Second...

But since RDD has been released, I'd hope we might try to discuss the mechanics and gameplay. I'm really interested in what people think works and what doesn't in this game... and hope for a debate with people who disagree with my views.
Jeku
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 07:07
@Deathead - Your comments on the story are pretty ignorant.. you should read up on the topic instead of making your own conclusions There was a thread on this topic a few months ago in Geek Culture where I gave some detail on the EA sweatshop compared to a good company.


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Matty H
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 11:23
Quote: "RDD is beautiful to look at, but contrary to the hype, it's nowhere near UNCHARTED 2. "

I would say thats an unfair comparison, although its correct that Uncharted 2 is better looking and has bigger/better set pieces it important to note that its only possible because the game is on rails and not open world like RDR.


Quote: "I'm not saying that there aren't good things to RDD, but the feeling I'm starting to get is that Rockstar has taken the idea of "open world" to "open story" -- a search for "absolute realism" -- and in doing so, they've stopped editing dialog, channeling story, and creating a fun experience. They've moved from primarily storytellers and game makers to life sim creators."


After playing video games for years I welcome some freedom in a game, I hope we get more games that push the boundaries in this respect.
People like different things, I personally love roaming around in an open environment, I think I have only teleported anywhere once or twice and probably wont do it again, I like the fact that you have to travel about, maybe I'm a bit strange, does anyone else ride everywhere or do you use the various teleporting methods?

Fallout
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Posted: 22nd May 2010 13:20
I'm going to give this game a go this weekend. I've not bought a PS3 title for a while, but I think a game based in the wild west has to be worth a bash. I'm looking forward to some quick draws and lever action rifle madness.

As for the Rockstar working conditions debate. I don't really get it, to be honest. If you get a job with a company (any company!) and they treat you like crap, you can leave. What more is there to say? I'm sure anyone working for Rockstar has programming/artistic/design skills that'd be valuable to other non-game industries. They don't have to work for Rockstar.

I guess the feeling is Rockstar is up on a pedestal, and people thinks it's unfair that top talent gets treated badly. Well we are all masters of our own destinies. Each employee makes the call for themselves if the hard work is worth it. If it's not, just get another job.

I quit IBM recently, because I didn't feel they were treating me right. I don't see any reason why these guys can't do the same if they feel it's not right for them.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
Fallout
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 02:00
Update: I bought it this evening. Have played it for 3 hours. My conclusion is, so far I'm not seeing much new really. Despite being in the wild west and riding horses, it still feels just like GTA. For me this is a bad thing, as I get bored easily and don't like playing rehashes of the same formula. I eventually got bored and turned it off.

Having said that, dead eye mode is quite cool. Hopefully robbing trains and multiplayer will make it worth while. I'll give it some more hours tomorrow evening and see how I feel then.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
KeithC
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 05:13
Quote: "Well we are all masters of our own destinies. Each employee makes the call for themselves if the hard work is worth it. If it's not, just get another job."

That's a pretty simplistic view of things. Some people have families, and can't just "up and quit/leave" a paying job; in a market where it's sometimes very hard to find work now. Ignoring the problem and letting it propagate throughout the industry isn't the answer either, in my opinion.

-Keith
Fallout
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 11:28 Edited at: 23rd May 2010 11:29
I agree. It is a simplistic view of things, but I do stand by it. I also think it's one possible solution to the problem, since if enough of Rockstar's top talent left them, eventually they'd have to ask themselves why.

Also, the family argument is interesting, when you think about it. They need to provide financial support, but how much damage does somebody do by working all day and never seeing their kids? Kind of a side issue, but to me, that's another good reason to leave.

I don't know what the job situation is like in the US, I admit. But people over here constantly moan there are no jobs in this 'recession.' But when I started looking for a new job (about 4 months ago), there were loads of opportunities. I ended up getting a job on my doorstep, and where I'm working now they're still trying to hire 3 more developers.

All I'm saying is, there is a route out, it may be tough but they have to take control. I can't see any sort of government policy fixing it for them.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 13:29
Sometimes people's positions make it very difficult to leave a job, especially with a difficult job market.

Working conditions MUST be ethical. Simple as. If they get unethical, it shouldn't be a case of 'oh, just leave'.

In the UK there are legal conditions for working. Working under pressure in a games company is stressful, as Jeku has explained before, but at times it can be an unnecessary pressure to place on employees and I'd probably suggest rereading the blog article.

Quote: "As a result of these conditions, the letter claims employees are suffering from physical manifestations of stress. “Some employees have been diagnosed with depression symptoms and at least one among them is acknowledged to have suicidal tendencies.”

The accusations in the letter are quite bold, but comments beneath Thursday’s blog post, many of which were supposedly penned by ex-Rockstar employees, support the claims. One post said that employees received “performance warnings” if they worked less than 11 hours per day; another post described being denied of promised royalties altogether. "


A job shouldn't push employees to receive mental conditions or even push an employee to want to commit suicide...I imagine the lack of success has been down to them wanting to look after their family.

KeithC
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 17:35
Quote: "They need to provide financial support, but how much damage does somebody do by working all day and never seeing their kids? Kind of a side issue, but to me, that's another good reason to leave."

I've seen what a lack of income can do to a family; versus mom or dad not being around much...it can do MUCH harm, not having an income.

As far as here in the US; I was unemployed for 1.5 years, after graduating with a Bachelors Degree and (at the time) 9 years of military service with a War Time deployment. I also have a clean record, and good "people" skills. There was nothing available; I interviewed at numerous places.

Maybe it's easier for you, in your part of the World; but that doesn't make it so in others.

And, as Sep has indicated; there is a question of illegal dealings/practices that should be challenged, otherwise it will become the norm and do further damage. I would have thought "developers" here would see this as a problem...

-Keith
Deathead
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 18:33 Edited at: 23rd May 2010 18:37
Quote: "@Deathead - Your comments on the story are pretty ignorant.. you should read up on the topic instead of making your own conclusions There was a thread on this topic a few months ago in Geek Culture where I gave some detail on the EA sweatshop compared to a good company."

I did not see that thread. My bad. Sorry, mis-informed. If that is the case, then yeah it is a really bad situation. But just reading it, and looking at it from a theoretical economic point of view it does look like the way I wrote about, but if the employees earn nothing from the overtime even after earning money, then it should be dealt with. It is a real shame however, that stories like these do not make it onto news channels, I know it is game-dev but we hear it all the time in other markets, so why not Video Game markets, it is a shame, and then it will get more people acknowledging the problems within some game companies, and hopefully erradicate the problem.


Fallout
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 18:39
I do see it as a problem, completely. And I agree with your points and Sep's points. All I'm saying is, corporate culture takes a long time to change. The only real power the employee has is to show the man the finger and leave. If I was there right now and hating it, I would be saving ever penny I earned and looking for jobs every day to find my escape route.

I'm just a firm believer in the notion that you can only rely on yourself, and it's up to you to change any bad situation you find yourself in.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
Jeku
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 19:59
Quote: "The only real power the employee has is to show the man the finger and leave"


That means absolutely *nothing* to a company like EA or Take 2. When a person leaves, *regardless* of their "importance" to the company, there's 100 people out there who would take their position because of the glamour factor. I have seen teams where 75% of them are laid off, and the remaining staff gets shuffled around and the slots are filled with great ease. They get boat loads of resumes everyday.

That isn't to say that since people want to work there, then they must be doing something right. No, the doe-eyed people who come in after graduation are stoked to get a job in the game industry, even in a crap position at the start because they're sold on this ideal that they'll be able to work their way up. Jaded mentality sits in for everyone after their first project is over.


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CapnBuzz
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 22:27
Ok, ok, ok...

I started this thread because I'm developing a Western game and was hoping to get feedback on what works and doesn't work for people in RED DEAD REDEMPTION.

Does anyone have anything to say about the game and how it plays?

Please don't take this as me being uninterested in the labor practices of the video game industry. That is definitely not that case... but I was hoping this thread would stay a critical thread on the game RDD.

Deathead
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Posted: 24th May 2010 01:27
Quote: "
I started this thread because I'm developing a Western game and was hoping to get feedback on what works and doesn't work for people in RED DEAD REDEMPTION."

Well, it is a newly released game, so not alot will have it. So if you want advice on how a good wild west game is to post it in to Game Design Theory.


Oolite
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Posted: 24th May 2010 19:23
Quote: "Well, it is a newly released game, so not alot will have it. So if you want advice on how a good wild west game is to post it in to Game Design Theory."


I disagree with this, sure an in depth analysis of the game is useful, but first impressions are hard to change.

Quote: "Does anyone have anything to say about the game and how it plays?"

Chances are you aren't making a sandbox game, but maybe a rail shooter. I don't think you should be looking at RDR specifically for what makes a western great, but looking at what makes a game great in general. The setting is only an added bonus to the features that lie underneath. Many of the missions work quite well in another setting, so get some great gameplay and game mechanic ideas down and then work out if, or how they can work within your setting.

That being said I will give my opinion, the game works well on many levels, but a wider variety of wildlife would have been better, the hunting system is ok, but also could have been improved.
So far it seems the game only really caters for being a good samaritan(but i haven't really been evil as of yet).
I don't know my horses, so it would have been nice to see a name of a horse when i got onto it, to know which ones are faster/better. It also feels like the system where you gain trust in your horse could have been expanded, a lot.
The story itself seems to drag on a little bit, the missions are fun enough to keep my attention but I feel little or no progression regarding the main characters original quest (that's not to say he's not likeable though.
These are my minor gripes with the game, I am thoroughly enjoying it though.

Fallout
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Posted: 24th May 2010 21:44
Quote: "That means absolutely *nothing* to a company like EA or Take 2. When a person leaves, *regardless* of their "importance" to the company, there's 100 people out there who would take their position because of the glamour factor."


Again, I agree. The same goes for when I left my last job. It was completely irrelevant to them. But my point is simply, if you're an individual, and you don't like your job, it's up to you to sort it out.

Quote: "I started this thread because I'm developing a Western game and was hoping to get feedback on what works and doesn't work for people in RED DEAD REDEMPTION."


Ok, likes and dislikes for you (just bear in mind I'm very hard to please with games, so will have a more negative attitude than most).

Likes
-Unique setting. Not many western games out there. I like the fact it's somewhere different. Having said that, I feel the western environment is quite limiting, which is reflected in the feel of the game.
-Gears of War style hiding behind stuff is good.
-Dead eye system is quite unique and good. I enjoy slow-mo head shots and painting people with crosshairs before wasting them.

Dislikes
-Despite it's new features, it still feels like GTA, which I am bored of. The best feature (caning about in cars) obviously isn't there, and is replaced by horses, which can never compete.
-There isn't enough to a western environment to make the sand box fun. I find the various options quite dull. I mean, the knife hand thingy watcha-ma-call-it. I played that once, and never again. Poker ... pointless. Shooting birds and animals and skinning them. Dull. There are loads more, but they're boring, just like life in the wild west would be for modern people like us.
-I really hate how you kill someone, and one person gets away, and 5 seconds later a million deputies are on your tail. This game appears to be trying to be more realistic, but not balancing those sort of things correctly ruins the immersion.
-The weapons are ok, but due to it's era, there is very little variety.

Overall, I find it very average, and have been quite bored playing it.

The best moments have been gunning down 5 riders in dead-eye mode in one flurry of fire, which was wicked, and shooting some guy in the back of the head after he stole my horse. Nothing else is memorable.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
CapnBuzz
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Posted: 24th May 2010 23:35
Hey there. Thanks for your thoughts!

Yes, I have spent the weekend playing A LOT. So with some more time in the saddle...

First, I love the Western setting and think it's a great and under-used place for a game. To my mind, any setting only needs a really good game or movie to become "hot" again.

I don't care for the way RDD deals with Red's horse. Time is spent developing "trust," but if this horse dies, you've got a new one next save. I guess a cowboy's closest friend isn't really his horse... just any horse. Trigger would surely take offense!

I'm still not glued to Red's storyline, but things did pick up for me South of the Border. Mexico is more exciting than New Austin so far. I'm having a little more fun with the game.

The music in this game is really vexing. Why Rockstar didn't purchase the rights to actual Spaghetti Western music -- as they did with RED DEAD REVOLVER -- I will never know? Often in this game I'm left feeling underwhelmed by the music. When I got to Mexico, I was very surprised by the choice of music.

Hate to bring it up again... but I'm sick of hearing people talk! I like the socio-political/historical ideas being thrown out there, but the dialog is never-ending! Eastwood's The Man With No Name probably uttered 10 words per movie, RED and friends deliver 10 words a second (sarcastic). Being a screenwriter, I'm reminded of another warning to new screenwriters... "Don't have characters talk about something that you can show! You're not writing a novel. You're writing a movie!" In this case, I'd add "Don't 'talk' about something you can show... or play. You're writing a game!"

Yes, I'm finding a lot of the game pointless too... but I'll give it awhile to see if "bird hunting" and such ever pays off.

Back to the trail...
Oolite
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Posted: 25th May 2010 05:03
The ambient tasks do pay off in the end, but getting them takes a fair amount of time, by which you won't have many missions left and there is really no point to use any of the skills you have gained.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 26th May 2010 22:58 Edited at: 27th May 2010 00:01
@ Oolite Yeah, I'm surprised that RDD is geared toward the good samaritan. I wouldn't have expected that, but I like the "white hats" lesson in ethics.

So, RDD is weighted toward ethical behaviour... and LEAD & GOLD is weighted toward teamwork... Interesting subtle change in gameplay dynamics...

On the music... I just read that Friends of Dean Martinez did the score to the game! Wow, I've loved this band for years, and although they set a great lonely desert mood in most of their songs, their original music here doesn't seem to work very well.
Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 27th May 2010 20:24
I can condense my review in a few words... Red Redemption is a Uber and Sexy game... will say, will say...

- Gorlock
ShaunRW
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Posted: 29th May 2010 05:56 Edited at: 29th May 2010 05:59
I can condense my review in aan acronym... GOTY Well until we see what Portal 2 is like.

My favorite pass-times in the game has to be hunting, dueling and playing liars dice. The most boring has to be picking the flowers. It also would be helpful to show the breed of horse when you get on, like cars in GTA.

*SPOILERS*


bond1
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Posted: 29th May 2010 17:15 Edited at: 29th May 2010 17:30
I knew about industry working conditions, but had no idea that things had gotten so bad at Rockstar.

Well I have a choice too, and I choose not to play the game either.

To say the employee should just quit if he doesn't like the conditions is pretty brutal. This isn't robber-baron 19th century America. Everyone deserves to be treated humanely at their job, in life, whatever. And abandoning your livelihood is not an option for people with families.

Don't like sexual harrassment? Quit the job if you don't like it. See how preposterous that sounds? This is just another form of harrassment that they CAN get away with at the moment.

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ShaunRW
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Posted: 30th May 2010 04:38
Don't get me wrong, i think the way they are treated is wrong and should change. But i don't think that a few people not buying a game will stop the way they are treated.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 30th May 2010 05:33
I would contact Rockstar and tell them how you feel... then talk to government about enforcing labor laws at "game mills." That is how things will change at places like Rockstar.

Now back to RDR...

I am enjoying the gameplay more than I did after the first few hours, but I'm still surprised how easily I can turn the game off and reada book. RDR definitely isn't as addictive as many games I've played lately...

I'm very interested in the 1/2 hour RDR machinima showing tonight on FOX (US). It's directed by John Hillcoat. Will this be the beginning of mainstream machinima or game movies?
Oolite
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Posted: 30th May 2010 06:35 Edited at: 30th May 2010 06:40
(before reading the following nonsense, please keep in mind that i didn't actually read too much about whole rockstar thing in the first place. My understanding is that two people left and started running their mouths about unfair work conditions.)
I know the industry has some harsh working conditions, but when you think about it, only a few employees left and complained, leaving the rest of the staff on board, obviously quite happy to continue working in those conditions. Who here would not love to say that they helped create RDR? Most of you on here will stay up nights endlessly working on you're own projects for absolutely no money, so why are you suddenly in uproar that it is happening inside a company? Call me harsh, but I completely agree with fallout and i'm on the 'if you don't like it, leave' side.

People can say what they want about this whole ordeal, but you never really know how you'd handle a situation like this until you have actually been in it.
I've had experience with harsh working conditions, both in freelance and in normal work. Some certain companies had given unrealistic deadlines for projects, which left me up for days trying to get it finished in time. Lack of sleep aside, i love doing what i do, so i get on and do it. If i hated what i was doing, I wouldn't do it, pure and simple. The same thing happened with another company that i won't name here that i worked for briefly a while back. Our delivery deadlines were so strict that we were often working for 9-12 hours a day, with a single 15 minute break. We were often given strict words by our superiors for taking our legally allowed breaks later on in the day. Coupled with a 5am start and crappy wages, this did not make for a happy Oolite. Keep in mind i was only contracted to do 5-11am shifts, leaving at my contracted hour was also a big no-no, people were constantly punished for leaving after their contracted hours and i even missed a lot of university because of i wasn't even allowed to leave to attend lectures. The final straw came when i was given an official warning for taking my Legally allowed dinner break. I told them where they could stick their job and handed in my notice.
Sure, it's not right that i was treated this way, but i would have been a sucker if i stayed. On the other hand, if i loved the job i would have put up with it, because no matter how much i was overworked, the sheer pleasure of working there would have been enough to spur me on through the day.
The way i see it, some people consider staying on those extra hours a pleasure, other people see it as unfair and illegal torture and something that hasn't happened since the 1800's.

Don't they say one mans trash is another mans treasure?

Now again, these are my own personal opinions, i know for certain that if i was put under these conditions at Rockstar, the last thing i'd be doing the moment i left is running my mouth all across the internet, making a fool of myself and only disappointing my former colleagues. Anyone who says that they aren't buying the game for ethical reasons, i hope all of your food is fairtrade organic stuff, all of your clothes aren't made with the help of sweatshop factories, the fish you eat is all sustainable and you plant a bloody tree for every piece of paper you use...

...Why stop at games? There are a lot of worse workplace conditions in the world.


Now, regarding red dead. Haters be damned i'm going to tell you why i loved the ending.
Edit: the code snippet is stretching the page so i'm adding a new line after every sentence.

Spoilers out of the way, i started to really get into Bonnie as a character and it was a shame that 70% of the game she wasn't around. She was a strong character that could have been expanded on a little more.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 30th May 2010 07:26 Edited at: 30th May 2010 07:30
I can't believe I am adding to this, but what the heck... it's Saturday night and I'm bored...

As I remember, the complaints about Rockstar came from wives or family members... and leaked -- or were spilled -- into the media.

I'll admit... I'm a "true blue" union man and think that the corporate diminishing of workers is a terrible crime... and one that should never be left on the shoulders of the singular worker as opposed to the "wealthy" corporations (no worker should have to leave a job because of i-l-l-e-g-a-l working conditions)... but nothing changes in the corporate world without strong governmental oversight. There's a recent banking fiasco that attests to this fact. My contention is simply that a boycott can change the corporate culture of one company but it cannot change the corporate culture of an entire industry (unless everyone boycotts all game sales). If you want change, demand corporate oversight and industry policing from your government. Ok, enough of that from me...

Oolite, What aspects of RDR worked best for you?
Thraxas
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Posted: 30th May 2010 08:29
You should all be playing Alan Wake anyway. It's a far better game.

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
Fallout
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Posted: 30th May 2010 15:10
Quote: "Don't like sexual harrassment? Quit the job if you don't like it. See how preposterous that sounds? This is just another form of harrassment that they CAN get away with at the moment."


I get your point, but there is a big difference between abuse from individuals and abuse from the entire corporation. One you can fix without quitting your job, and the other one you can't.

Let me rewrite my summary

If you can fix the problem, FIX it. If you can't, QUIT.

Radical hamsters skipping furiously into the blue ether, questioning their very existence while breathing out the bitter fog of smoked haddock.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th May 2010 15:47
I'm still gonna play the game...

Everyone here's acting all high and mighty, when most of the clothes you're wearing were made in an Asian sweatshop by children most likely...

KeithC
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Posted: 30th May 2010 16:15
Nobody here's acting all "high and mighty"; where do you get that from?

-Keith
CapnBuzz
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Posted: 31st May 2010 01:58
So, watched Rockstar's RED DEAD REDEMPTION film by John Hillcote...

Seems Hillcote only cobbled together a series of cut scenes. Nice for a RDR commercial, but I'd be a little embarrassed if I was Hillcote.
CapnBuzz
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Posted: 31st May 2010 23:46
Hey, I just noticed that this game doesn't have any Native Americans. Am I wrong?
BiggAdd
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 00:16
Please don't double post, use the edit button next time please.

ShaunRW
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 04:21
Quote: "Hey, I just noticed that this game doesn't have any Native Americans. Am I wrong?"

Yes, you're wrong.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 04:32
Where are they in the gameplay? I haven't run across any yet... and didn't find any screens in a search online. Thought RDR would have to include them somewhere...
ShaunRW
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 09:43 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 09:50
They are in missions, when you get to the third part in the map.

EDIT: Here is a screenshot:
http://media.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption/2/img/global/people/nastas_hd.jpg

Little Bill
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 18:16
Yay for you guys not buying the game! Such a nice way to support the hard work and countless hours those people have put into the game.

KeithC
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 19:00
Quote: "Such a nice way to support the hard work and countless hours those people have put into the game."

Somebody's got to take a stand for current and future developers. Too bad some people are alright with them (the developers) getting the screws put to them.

-Keith
Oolite
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 01:23
Quote: "Hey, I just noticed that this game doesn't have any Native Americans. Am I wrong"

The game is set in the 20th century,(around 1908 if i remember correctly), the end of the wild west era. The whole battle between cowboys and indians would have taken part in mid 19th century so they wouldn't have been as prevalent in Johns story.

CapnBuzz
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 01:45 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2010 01:52
Ah, ok... I was wrong... found them.

Yes, but with the idea of an open world, I was surprised by not seeing them depicted. Living in the West, Native Americans and the reservation system are still readily apparent.

Found an article that expresses exactly my feelings about Red Dead Redemption. I guess it's a story thing with me:

http://calitreview.com/9163

Don't get me wrong... I am glad to have played this game, but I have consistently felt that the experience was unique more than really enjoyable. After reading the above article, I understood the reasons for my misgivings.

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