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Geek Culture / Mods heading for a slap?

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KeithC
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 05:07
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I suppose I'll chime in for a minute.

As far as emailing everyone we slap, ban, or otherwise moderate...it's not going to happen. We do this stuff for TGC voluntarily; it doesn't pay our bills, and as I've said before...we do have lives outside of these boards.

However, as was mentioned; if you email a Mod with a query as to why you were moderated, most of us take the time to reply back to you. Just be sure to include the following in your email to us:

- Link to your Forum Profile.

- Link to the thread/post in question (if you think you know why you were moderated).

- Anything relevant to plead your case.

We are not mind readers, and we don't always have the time to let the other Mods know what you've done. We do, however, have a way to log/record any infractions you've made...with notes. So any Mod can look up your profile and see how your behavior has been in the past.

To build on that; if you show a common pattern of moderation (especially if it's for the same or similar types of offenses), what would have been either a warning or a slap...could easily rise to a full ban. For members who question the reasoning as to how we come to the conclusions we come to; these are in fact some of the tools we use, in conjunction with communicating with other Mods on some matters (not all).

For those of you who like to "knit-pick" every little action we take, and voice them in public; there is a moderation package for you as well. At the very least, you will have items added to your Profile Notes; which could result in harsher penalties for a lesser offense....later on.

This is why some offenses have harsher treatments than others. We don't hold grudges, we just do our job.

I've gotten my fair share of "hate-mails" as well, and they have been dealt with. A direct mail of the afore-mentioned type, will result in moderation on these boards; just as an FYI.

Again; if you think we are being un-fair in any way, you can do one of 4 things:

- Email TGC Support (report message button).

- Email a Mod about it.

- Leave it alone and don't do anything.

- Find another Forum to interact with.

-Keith
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david w
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 06:45
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All good points. LOL, guess that explains a bit haha.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 12:49
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Nowt wrong with a moderator having a sense of humour to a locked thread, I thought it amusing to read. In fact, on the main forum I moderate, I make all sorts of jokes, because it can diffuse some steam from the mods or the members. Seeing it here is no problem.


In terms of locking threads, if there's more misbehaviour and more breaking of rules, then the mods have to crack down, simple as that. They're not doing it because people disagree with them, because I would have been banned a long time ago, right Jeku.

Mods can't be perfect, because they're human, this is why there's a moderation team and no doubt an admin board where they can discuss any problems or where a mod doesn't agree with an action made. But also, that's why there's a complaints procedure, so if a member isn't pleased with how a mod is behaving, they can bring it to the attention of others mods or TGC themselves.


However, I see no reason to give them grief over what they do, they're volunteers, they have to make difficult decisions and they are only human. It isn't always an easy job, particularly if you're dealing with people that like to have hissy fits because they think that a forum should have no rules and that they can do and say what they like.


Personally, I can't find anywhere I'd properly criticise the mods' actions, even when I've been given warnings and the one time I was slapped many a year ago. I sympathesise with the reasons why. But hey, I know the mods aren't there to make personal attacks, so why should anything be taken personally?

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David R
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 15:09 Edited at: 23rd May 2010 15:12
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Quote: "as far as emailing everyone we slap, ban, or otherwise moderate...it's not going to happen. We do this stuff for TGC voluntarily; it doesn't pay our bills, and as I've said before...we do have lives outside of these boards."


Could the forum not be set up to do that automatically?

Although that said, I suppose it can't if it's using the main profile data data (rather than the optional forum email address) because email addresses are a bit borked profile-wise and probably aren't up to date (don't know about anyone else, but if I change my email address for login it never actually changes. No confirmation email and no change)

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KeithC
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 16:25
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Quote: "Could the forum not be set up to do that automatically? "

I don't think that would be worth the time/money investment on TGC's part, for someone to code that in.

-Keith
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xplosys
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 19:39 Edited at: 23rd May 2010 19:44
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Maybe we should be using the flag system by George Carlin. He proposed that all drivers should have a gun that shoots small red flags with suction cups that would stick to cars. When a driver did something stupid, you would shoot a red flag at his car. When there are enough red flags stuck on a car, the police would stop it and issue the driver a ticket.

We could do the same thing with a button. When someone posts something stupid, offensive, illegal or otherwise not allowed, others would push the button attached to his post. When he got enough button pushes, the forum would automatically ban/slap him for the predetermined time, taking into account previous infractions and other data collected over time.

Of course there is the possibility that users could be unfair and purposely press the button for those they just don't like. Also, the forum could not take the actual infraction or intent of the user into account and some might be banned for just being funny or misunderstood, but it could work.

Or we could just let a few trusted members, appointed by TGC to oversee the forum. Yeah, that might work better.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 19:54
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<Fires a red flag at Xplosys>

Tag. You're it

- BlackFox

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BMacZero
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 20:15
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Waaaay too easily abused.

Imagine a bunch of teenagers driving up next to some random person and peppering their car with flags


It will rise...
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lazerus
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 20:21
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Macro mouse go! Bye Xplosys!

Havnt we already got both systems since theres a little button with 'report abuse' sitting there.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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BMacZero
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Posted: 23rd May 2010 20:25
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Quote: "Havnt we already got both systems since theres a little button with 'report abuse' sitting there."

Sure, but I think I remember Jeku saying he doesn't know where that goes to, but it sure isn't to the mods .


It will rise...
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Jeku
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Posted: 24th May 2010 05:56
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Of course it doesn't go the mods. It does go to support people.


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 24th May 2010 07:07
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Quote: "We could do the same thing with a button. When someone posts something stupid, offensive, illegal or otherwise not allowed, others would push the button attached to his post. When he got enough button pushes, the forum would automatically ban/slap him for the predetermined time, taking into account previous infractions and other data collected over time.
"


Maybe it needs a few refinements. Otherwise it would be abused by immature people from the FPSC boards because of a matter of opinion.
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BearCDP
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Posted: 24th May 2010 11:08
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I started writing a big ole post before stopping, thinking, then deleting the whole thing. This is so painfully asinine. Please recognize when people make jokes like Green Gandalf did with this thread and the mods did talking about Lost.

In the words of George "The Fat Man" Alistair Sanger: "Draw a line and get over it."

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 24th May 2010 12:54 Edited at: 25th May 2010 00:45
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Well said.

Quote: "I started writing a big ole post before stopping, thinking, then deleting the whole thing."


Perhaps that's what I should have done in my first post.

[Edited grammar. ]
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KeithC
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Posted: 24th May 2010 17:27
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Quote: "Otherwise it would be abused by immature people from the FPSC boards because of a matter of opinion. "

To be clear; there are plenty of immature people on ALL boards here, not just the FPSC realm.

-Keith
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 25th May 2010 00:50
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I suppose this is as good a thread as any to air these issues.
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xplosys
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Posted: 25th May 2010 00:58
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Quote: "To be clear; there are plenty of immature people on ALL boards here, not just the FPSC realm."


And I thought we were special.

Of course the button idea was just a joke. I hope everyone realizes that.

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Lonnehart
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Posted: 25th May 2010 03:02 Edited at: 25th May 2010 03:04
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This red flag thing could be abused unless you put in things to limit it such as...

How long that person has been a member of the board.

If said person is in good standing or not.

The number of slaps/bans that person has accumulated.


Basically, if this person is a law (or rule abiding for the forums) member of the forum, he/she would have access or be able to use that button. If the person is a known trouble maker, they'd get an error if they tried to abuse it. Of course, there's nothing stopping that immature person from creating a couple hundred accounts just so he can get one person banned...

As for the people who can use it, they should be required to state a reason as to why they put a red flag on someone, but only the mods and anyone else who keeps behavior on the forums in check should be able to see all this.

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BearCDP
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Posted: 25th May 2010 04:23
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The TGC Mod Squad's worst transgressions are systematically whitewashed by the press. To counteract that whitewash I will use the remainder of my space here to expose the TGC Mod Squad for what it really is. I will start this discussion by arguing that justice and humanity are entirely on our side and nothing but illegality and barbarity are on the TGC Mod Squad's. Then, I will present evidence that the TGC Mod Squad should learn to appreciate what it has instead of feeling so oppressed because it can't do everything it wants, every time it wants to.

The TGC Mod Squad, already oppressive with its inimical antics, will perhaps be the ultimate exterminator of our human species—if separate species we be—for its reserve of unguessed horrors could never be borne by mortal brains if loosed upon the world. If you think that that's a frightening thought then consider that the TGC Mod Squad ought to unstop its ears and uncover its eyes. Only then will it hear that to which it has been too long heedless. Only then will the TGC Mod Squad see that if it can give us all a succinct and infallible argument proving that it is a paragon of morality and wisdom, I will personally deliver its Nobel Prize for Lackadaisical Rhetoric. In the meantime, the TGC Mod Squad's hangers-on remain largely silent when asked about the correlative connecting the TGC Mod Squad to Marxism. The rare times they do deign to comment they invariably skew the issue to prevent people from realizing that the TGC Mod Squad has been known to say that the moon is made of green cheese. That notion is so brutish, I hardly know where to begin refuting it.

Am I angry? You bet. I'm convinced that the TGC Mod Squad will inculcate drugged-out declamations sooner or later. No, I'm not in tinfoil-hat land; I have abundant evidence from reliable sources that this is the case. For instance, the TGC Mod Squad knows that performing an occasional act of charity will make some people forgive—or at least overlook—all of its unrealistic excesses. My take on the matter is that a lot of people may end up getting hurt before the final spasm of its rage is played out. Why do I tell you this? Because these days, no one else has the guts to.

The TGC Mod Squad argues that it can override nature. I wish I could suggest some incontrovertible chain of apodictic reasoning that would overcome this argument, but the best I can do is the following: Its occasional demonstrations of benevolence are not genuine. Nor are the TGC Mod Squad's promises. In fact, in a tacit concession of defeat, it is now openly calling for the abridgment of various freedoms to accomplish coercively what its fatuous, petty put-downs have failed at.

We must provide light, information, and knowledge about the TGC Mod Squad's purblind grievances. Those who claim otherwise do so only to justify their own sniveling tirades. If the TGC Mod Squad thinks that men are spare parts in the social repertoire—mere optional extras—then it's sadly mistaken. If the TGC Mod Squad's conjectures get any more uncivilized, I expect they'll grow legs and attack me in my sleep. All of this once again proves the old saying that it may seem excessive to note that the TGC Mod Squad uses a rather corrupt definition of "internationalization".

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thenerd
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Posted: 25th May 2010 04:34 Edited at: 25th May 2010 21:38
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that never gets old...

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KeithC
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Posted: 25th May 2010 05:16
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@BearCDP

Nice speech; you might want to try using a more localized vernacular though, rather than the very verbose way you are trying to express yourself.

-Keith
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xplosys
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Posted: 25th May 2010 05:47
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Verbose is a little kind, but what can you expect from a generic complaint generator which as someone already said.... never gets old.

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Gingerkid Jack
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Posted: 25th May 2010 09:56
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The red flag method reminds me of the complaint thingy on xbox live, everytime I do well in a game against somebody they report me down from anger and jelousy so maybe those things will come into it.

Sorry if it doesn't make sence, im up very early for exam.

Gingerkid Jack - Aspiring Game Designer\3d Modeler
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BearCDP
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Posted: 25th May 2010 10:17
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Wut's with all the bold text you guise?

Well to get back on topic, I'm wary of a red flag idea. I can imagine the inevitable chaos.

Check out this WIP flash game from the Global Game Jam!
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Thraxas
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Posted: 25th May 2010 13:16
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Quote: "The red flag method reminds me of the complaint thingy on xbox live, everytime I do well in a game against somebody they report me down from anger"


Yep. All my negative responses from Live are from playing Magic the Gathering over Live. All my negative reports are for quitting early, when I've NEVER quit a game. Always after giving someone a flogging.

Although rep on Live is meaningless so it doesn't really matter anyway.

As for red flagging posts, an essentially meaningless reputation system would work.

Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 25th May 2010 13:35 Edited at: 25th May 2010 13:36
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Quote: " It was just my youthful sense of mischief getting the better of me for once."

Yeah and a couple pints of beer...

I still think that we should have a Super Mod that oversee's the mods and can actually ban and noob slap mods (even though this would never actually be required [unless indi returned as a mod ]) and for one I vote Jeku.



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lazerus
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Posted: 25th May 2010 15:29
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Quote: "Although rep on Live is meaningless so it doesn't really matter anyway.
"


My rep is awful, though thats to be expected with cod. Who actually takes the time to rep people other than the sad buggers who get abused so bad they hissy fit...

Such is life.


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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BMacZero
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Posted: 25th May 2010 16:26
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I've seen reputation systems used on other forums to good effect. They encourage people to make helpful posts when they can and show who's likely to know what they're talking about.

They'll never be able to execute moderation, though. They're really just preventive.


It will rise...
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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th May 2010 16:29
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I'd much rather see an infraction system and a better reporting system.
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KeithC
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Posted: 26th May 2010 14:58
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I for one don't think the proposed "red flag" system would be helpful, rather the opposite...for the reasons laid out.

-Keith
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David R
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Posted: 26th May 2010 15:41 Edited at: 26th May 2010 15:41
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I'm guessing you all TLDR'd xplosys' post. The last line kind of makes it quite obvious the proposal wasn't serious

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 26th May 2010 15:43 Edited at: 26th May 2010 15:45
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I think a rep system would be an interesting addition to the forums, and maybe worth a try. Let me take a shot at it;

If a post is marked down by so many points, that post is automatically reported to the moderatores (displayed the same way to the mods as 'post approval' comments).

To avoid abuse from persistant troublemakers, mods would be able to see the names of the members that rated on a reported post. If a member is caught abusing the system, they lose their right to use it.

If a user's rep gets too low, they're automatically put on post moderation, and lose their own right to use the rep system.

Members with a high reputation would have access to a restricted board with various candies and treats The reward system seems to work quite well, in several circumstances.


----------

No? How about the addition of another 'report abuse' button at the bottom of each post? This one however, sends a 'notice' to the mods. Comments reported this way are displayed to the moderators the same way as 'post moderation' comments. To avoid abuse, the name of the user that submitted the report is displayed under said notice.

I would also like to suggest a simple PM system, and the ability to add a poll to a thread topic. Off topic? Yes. Worth a mention? Why not!

Thanks Santa!

Kravenwolf

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lazerus
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Posted: 26th May 2010 16:46
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Or jusr jury rig the orginal report button to report to mods...


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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xplosys
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Posted: 26th May 2010 18:23
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Quote: "Of course the button idea was just a joke. I hope everyone realizes that."


I'm just going to quit humor all together. I'm not good at it.

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David R
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Posted: 26th May 2010 18:28
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Quote: "I'm just going to quit humor all together. I'm not good at it.
"


It was pretty well done actually - just that... no one read it for some reason

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That Guy John
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Posted: 26th May 2010 20:45
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Quote: "I think a rep system would be an interesting addition to the forums"


It is a good concept, but sadly systems like that get abused often.

Quite frankly, from what I have seen across the boards, some members here can be deemed useless and in turn the member database could use some pruning. As for what standards to use in making those judgment calls, who knows. That would take massive collaboration between the moderators and the actual admin for the forum.

Honestly, I think there should be a board for premium members with a small yearly or monthly subscription. I know, I don't want to have another subscription coming from my paypal or one of my cards either, but I firmly believe that if you want highest quality, at some point you are going to have to pay for it. I think this would help a great deal in filtering out who is here for the long haul, really wants help and who really wants to help.

Once a strict SOP is set in place for a premium board, if a member violates it.. tough luck, they lost their 5 bucks for that month and must suffer dealing with the standard free boards for a week or month.

Sounds harsh and uncalled for to some, I know, but this is reality.

ThatGuyJohn.com (personal blog)
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 27th May 2010 01:43
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If the rep system is to be used you'd need some kind of barrier for new people. Make it that only members with at least 100 posts cannot give or take rep, otherwise every idiot who joins will just abuse it.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th May 2010 02:40
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Quote: "I'd much rather see an infraction system and a better reporting system."


Good idea!

If anyone's used vBulletin you'll know how well the reporting and infraction system works. Rather than moderators having to tirelessly read every thread to check for abuse and such, any user can report a message (with a reason given). All moderators can access these reports, and if necessary hand out infractions (or bans in very serious cases).
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Van B
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Posted: 27th May 2010 09:39
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Quote: "Honestly, I think there should be a board for premium members with a small yearly or monthly subscription."


There used to be one, users on the premium forum would get a more direct access to TGC developers, plus beta versions of DBPro. That got closed fairly soon after DBPro was released - really I think that sort of forum is great for beta testing products, but these days it's easier to cope with new users I think. The premium site was more about serious development than anything - very often TGC would give access to it as part of a competition prize. Apollo blossomed though, so there was no real need for a premium site once everyone got their hands on DBPro.

Well, I say the site eventually closed when DBPro was released - I think it might have just been the fact that they got sick of posting their blogs.


Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 20:06
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Quote: "Make it that only members with at least 100 posts cannot give or take rep"

So, then i just spam the forums to make the 100 post quota...

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