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Geek Culture / Lost Ending.... Epic Fail or Glorious Conclusion *Spoilers obviously*

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Thraxas
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Posted: 25th May 2010 16:23
I'm in two minds about the ending to Lost. This is a TV show I have loved like no other.Every episode has drawn me deeper and deeper into the mystery of island.

So now we have the 'ending' which explained nothing about the island or what has happened over the past 6 seasons. It simply explains the alternate story arc from the 6th season. Which was that they alts were in a purgatory or some kind until they found each other and remembered their past lives. A massive cop out as far as I'm concerned.

I did love the symmetry of the ending and start. Starting the show on Jack's eye and ending the show on Jack's eye. Vincent running away from Jack in the very beginning, and coming to lie with Jack at the very end.

What are your thoughts?

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 25th May 2010 16:43
I LOVED it!
I think they explained everything pretty well. They did leave some things open to interpretation. I think they had to do that so they didn't cater to any one religion or belief system.
It did take me a while to digest the last episode. At first I was trying to figure out if they were actually dead the whole time on the island. After I thought things through a bit, it all seemed to come together.
Overall, I think it is the BEST story I've ever had told to me. The way the developed characters and the depth of each character was just awesome. And really, that is what this story was all about. I'd love to sit down and watch the entire series again knowing what I know now. There are so many things that seemed insignificant in early episodes that tie into the whole story.

To me, it was just amazing the wohole way through including the end.

Ron


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 25th May 2010 17:04
I still don't really understand loads of it. The smoke monster, the light in the water, Jacob and his brother, the island moving through time, the island fullstop, the Others, just none of it. Was that ALL real, and the only "weird" part the alt reality because actually that was when they were all dead? So did they actually crash and experience everything, and just come together at the end?

No frigging idea.

Van B
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Posted: 25th May 2010 17:15
I don't think anyone would be 100% happy with the ending, how do you end a 6 year long series!. I think that now, all the impatient fans who just needed to know everything are realising that is not the case, the priority should always be to entertain.

I mean, I used to visit the ABC Lost forums, but only when waiting on a new series to start. It's a pretty affirming place really, you think you might be a geek, visit that, and come away thinking your James Bond in comparison.

For me, I'm sad that it's all over - the best TV show ever made, except for the Hugo 'n' Ben spin off series... But I didn't feel let down by the ending, I accepted it, because it's nice to have something in life that you just never bitch to much about, even when it annoys. I've looked forward to every episode and although some are clearly 'filler', most episodes are incredible. It's the sort of thing I want to leave for 5 years, then watch all over again, when my son is old enough to appreciate it fully.

What worries me now is the sheer lack of anything worth watching. Everything I remotely liked has been cancelled or run it's course. So what are you guys in the US watching or looking forward to now?, the only thing I've been keeping up with is V. Is there really nothing on?

>': 4 8 15 16 23 42


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 25th May 2010 21:29
Quote: "What worries me now is the sheer lack of anything worth watching. Everything I remotely liked has been cancelled or run it's course. So what are you guys in the US watching or looking forward to now?, the only thing I've been keeping up with is V. Is there really nothing on?"


first season ended a few weeks back, but I have come to love Spartacus blood and sand. Waiting on new season of Caprica

BiggAdd
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Posted: 25th May 2010 21:35
Quote: "I still don't really understand loads of it. The smoke monster, the light in the water, Jacob and his brother, the island moving through time, the island fullstop, the Others, just none of it. Was that ALL real, and the only "weird" part the alt reality because actually that was when they were all dead? So did they actually crash and experience everything, and just come together at the end?"


Everything on the island was real. But they obviously got a bit lazy and couldn't be bothered explaining all the rest.

Thought the ending was very poor. I watched it for the mystery of the show, and none of it was explained.

Although the ending was good (but the fact that none of the mysteries being explained ruined it for me)



zeroSlave
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Posted: 25th May 2010 21:47 Edited at: 25th May 2010 22:11
EDIT: Yeah, I am/was one of those geeky Lost fanatics. I frequented 4815162342.com for quite a while...

How about Glorious fail. To me, Lost... lost my enduring fandom at the conclusion. I loved the island, the black smoke was so mysterious, and I knew that it would have some great, compelling explanation to what it was and what is was protecting. Isn't that what was said? It was some type of security device? Why did the sonic fence keep it away? The ash? Where did it come from and why does the black smoke not like it? I don't want to have to speculate.

Oh well, Jacob, in all his purity and benevolence, killed his twin brother because he found out the truth about his mother and was trying to leave the island. BOOOOOOO!

Do I think the Man in Black, (Locke, Smokey, possibly Samuel?) was a bad guy? NO! Well, he did do some bad things... many, many years after he was screwed over multiple times and I think he should have been able to leave the island whenever he wanted.

Anyway, I didn't like the ending. It left too much open, there wasn't enough clarity, and it was nowhere near as epic as the previous 5 season finales (Especially the first finale. Epic.) Hopefully, something else will come out and rival lost and give me an ending that I am satisfied with. This ending reminded me of the Seinfeld series finale. "It was an ending. Nuff said." is not good enough for me!

Quote: "So what are you guys in the US watching or looking forward to now?"


NetFlix. Can't get enough of old Doctor Who, Firefly, Hercules, and tons of other random shows. I never got into V, mostly because of the stupid countdown timer they played during one of my lost episodes.

My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
David R
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Posted: 25th May 2010 21:50
Judging by the reactions to the finale, my not-watching-it after about the 3rd episode was worthwhile after all

Even from the beginning it was questions stacked upon other questions with no answers in sight

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lazerus
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Posted: 25th May 2010 22:43
Got to the end of the first season.

The complaints on youtube are pretty epic, people recording themselves going, what was that??!? then ranting for 10mins Im tempted to watch them all just so i can appreciate the youtube moans a bit more lol

zeroSlave
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Posted: 25th May 2010 23:48
Oh yeah, just thought I'd throw this out there. It's a pretty decent read.

Quote: "Still, if the finale didn't explain all the show's mysteries, it resolved enough of them to provide audiences with a satisfying catharsis -- satisfying both for the explanations provided to us and for the emotional closure given to characters who'd sought it for years."


Quote: "- but it made for a nice twist on Jack's motto: "Live together, die alone." Well, turns out we don't even have to die alone."


Quote: "To the extent that 'Lost' was about the journey and not the destination, about the drive to solve riddles rather than the solutions themselves"


My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
Lucifer
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Posted: 26th May 2010 00:09
Quote: "Waiting on new season of Caprica"


Caprica SUCKS, i really hate how they turned Battlestar Gallactica into Battlestar Gallactica 90210, why the bleep aren't they making scifi for the fans that made them so popular in the first place? It's a kiddie show for girls. It's almost as bad as Stargate Universe.

lazerus
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Posted: 26th May 2010 00:22
Stargate Universe, i seen that the other day lol, i thought it had been axed till i seen the advert. There quite behind on there schedule

zeroSlave
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Posted: 26th May 2010 00:42
The only thing that SGU has going for it is Robert Carlyle. He did an awesome job in Trainspotting, Ravenous, and 28 Weeks Later. Especially Ravenous. Love that movie! Nothing better than crazy Civil War vampire-like folks with great banjo music playing during the action. I also always thought he would make a good Padan Fain if there was ever a movie made from the Wheel of Time series. It would be a hard pick between him, Steve Buscemi, and Willem Dafoe.

My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 26th May 2010 03:10
I think it was much less epic than some of the season finales, which was a little strange; I was surprised that Locke/Smokey was killed with 45 mins to go till the end, and I think that the lack of that incredible nemesis character was one of the main reasons it ran out of steam. I also didn't like the way that we got an *incredibly* happy ending; I couldn't help thinking that the deaths of, say, Sun and Jin were ennobling even if they were sad, and that the happy ending robbed them of some of their nobility. There was a small part of me that couldn't help thinking "Well, really? Can it really be *this* happy?"

Having said all that - it is, as it turns out, a show about faith and God and love and responsibility, so all the vagueness (and, yes, the happy ending) are kind of justified. If you have a light which "burns in all men's hearts" then I guess you're justified in not explaining it in detail: after all, it's a story, not an anatomy of the soul. All the little things like how the smoke monster is repelled (ash and fences) don't need to be explained because they're just part of the "magic" aspect of the show - that is, the part which is just accepted. If you have a slightly magical smoke monster then perhaps slightly magical powder would be able to repel it.

The only thing I have *real* trouble getting my head round is the idea that Smokey is essentially the centre and incarnation of all evil. Perhaps I've misunderstood this, but the scene with Jacob and the wine bottle seems to suggest that Smokey is, to all intents and purposes, the Devil, or at least some source of extreme evil. But does that mean that, before he became the Smoke Monster, there was no evil? And now that he's been killed, does that mean that there is no more evil? It doesn't make much sense to me. Of course, this might be because I've just misinterpreted everything.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 26th May 2010 07:09
Quote: "Caprica SUCKS, i really hate how they turned Battlestar Gallactica into Battlestar Gallactica 90210"


Now I will say I liked the regular BG more than Caprica I still think it has been a decent series. I would not draw the 90210 comparison if I had to equate it to another show it would be the West Wing, there were no ongoing political/social plots in 90210.

ionstream
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Posted: 26th May 2010 08:39
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

I was very disappointed by the ending. Revealing that the sidewise timeline was just death felt like a major copout for me, equivalent to "it was all a dream." I did like the on-island stuff (probably because it was actually happening), and as always I enjoyed the performances of Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson. But the episode gets a 4 out of 10 for me, and it makes watching previous episodes completely un-enticing, because I know this is where it goes - nowhere.

Thraxas
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Posted: 26th May 2010 09:31
Quote: "because I know this is where it goes - nowhere."


Yes I was looking forward to re-watching all the older episodes and seeing things I had missed, but I have to say I've lost that interest now the finale has happened.

I just feel too much was unexplained. Why did Juliette say the bomb had worked? It hadn't she was merely dying and experiencing the purgatory timeline. The writers shouldn't have had her say that it worked, as it left me expecting something, instead I was left with nothing.

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 26th May 2010 10:48
Quote: "I just feel too much was unexplained. Why did Juliette say the bomb had worked?"


Actually interestingly enough she wasn't referring to the bomb when she said "it worked". She was referring to the tip she gave Sawyer in the alternate life to unplug the candy machine and the candy bar would get unstuck.

http://tv.ign.com/dor/objects/821880/lost/videos/lost_wc_end_052410.html

Thraxas
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Posted: 26th May 2010 15:11
Quote: "Actually interestingly enough she wasn't referring to the bomb when she said "it worked". She was referring to the tip she gave Sawyer in the alternate life to unplug the candy machine and the candy bar would get unstuck.
"


That makes much more sense

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 26th May 2010 15:43
Quote: "The only thing I have *real* trouble getting my head round is the idea that Smokey is essentially the centre and incarnation of all evil. Perhaps I've misunderstood this, but the scene with Jacob and the wine bottle seems to suggest that Smokey is, to all intents and purposes, the Devil, or at least some source of extreme evil. But does that mean that, before he became the Smoke Monster, there was no evil? And now that he's been killed, does that mean that there is no more evil? It doesn't make much sense to me. Of course, this might be because I've just misinterpreted everything."


I didn't come away with the same view.
To me, the "man-in-black" and Jacob were a personification of the struggle that everyone on the island was facing. Jacob was the "good-guy", but he still stuggled with always doing the right thing. He wasn't perfect at all. Him failing led to him killing his brother (which only caused bigger problems). The "man-in-black" was the "bad-guy", but most of his frustration and anger were well justified. To me, it showed that there is a very fine line between good and evil. The difference between them was shown in how (for the most part) they acted upon their struggles. Jacob wanted people to do the right thing (right for everyone, not just himself), but didn't force anyone or stop anyone from doing anything. He was a non-interfering guide. This was good. The "man-in-black" was concearned about his own problems and tried to force people to do what was best for him. This was bad.
This all was a great picture of the struggles everyone on the island faced. In the end I think it was saying that no one is good. No one is evil. It is our actions that are good or evil. Anyone that percieved to be good can easily become evil by making a series of bad choices. Anyone that appears to be evil can become good by starting to choosing right.


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 26th May 2010 18:48
It's only just aired here, luckily they run it twice, back to back.. I liked it..


Quote: "
I mean, I used to visit the ABC Lost forums, but only when waiting on a new series to start. It's a pretty affirming place really, you think you might be a geek, visit that, and come away thinking your James Bond in comparison.
"


During the first airing here (in prime time) there was a number of ad's calling for sign ups on the next season of "Beauty and the geek". Hmm, the audience is listening

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 26th May 2010 20:44
I must be lost. I thought this was the 24 recovery group. Jack Bauer, ye will be missed

Nah, lol. I was too far behind in Lost to want to catch up. After hearing the ending, I don't feel like wasting my time. It sounds like the writers played more tricks on the viewers than anything else. Mystery is good until a point, and then it just get's ridiculous. The whole purgatory thing... should have seen that coming but I didn't.

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zeroSlave
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Posted: 26th May 2010 21:06
Quote: "The whole purgatory thing... should have seen that coming but I didn't."

I saw it coming around the first season, but JJ Abrams and Lindelof shot that Idea down. Well, not completely; what they said is true somewhat I guess, but it is misleading.

Quote: "Well [the theory] that I like, and the one that everyone was talking about a while to me, is the purgatory one, and though that's not what it is, it is such a great idea ... But that isn't literally what [the island] is."
-JJ Abrams
The island isn't, but I guess the alt-universe is.

Quote: "People who believe that they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world."
-Lindelof

Well, I still like the series. I took the time to watch the first season finale last night and it kind of rekindled my appreciation of my interests during that time.
Quote: "Did you hear about the guy who invented nitro glycerin? he blew his freakin' face off! His lab assistant came in the next morning, found his boss' body, and said, "Huh. I guess this stuff works." Nitro glycerin is the most unstable substance known to man. It is extremely temperamental so you have to be..."



My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
bond1
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Posted: 27th May 2010 14:40
I hated it, no explanation for anything whatsoever.

For 6 years, I thought the writers of the show were geniuses, weaving these storylines together.

Now I realize they were probably just a bunch of drunk college kids throwing random crap together off the top of their heads. "Hey, let's make Richard Alpert an immortal Spaniard from the 1700's! Let's make a smoke monster, yeah that would be awesome!"

FAIL.

----------------------------------------
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 28th May 2010 21:37 Edited at: 28th May 2010 21:49
So why were the numbers special? And what was the deal with electromagnetism? And what was the light? And how come Jack didn't turn into a smoke monster? And what were the Dharma initiative actually researching? And why was Desmond able to survive? And how come the island could teleport? And what was the deal with the time travel? And why was Walt special?

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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 28th May 2010 22:35 Edited at: 28th May 2010 22:40
I think the electromagnetism was a side-effect of the island's "energy/light". Since the island is kind of the source of all goodness/souls, it seems fair enough to expect some weird energy stuff to go on.

The light was the source of all "light" which "burns inside all men". I guess it's kind of the source of all souls or something. Regardless, it's a mystical doohickey.

Also, bear in mind that the light-pool seems to be 1) The source of this soul/light stuff 2) A plug to keep the resultant electromagnetic energy in place and 3) The mouth of hell (when Desmond unplugs it).

I assume the Man in Black's soul was turned into the smoke monster because it was evil and tainted. Remember, his body was found and entombed which means the smoke monster must not be related to his physical form, but must be related to his non-corporeal aspect, ie. his soul. Jack did not have an evil soul (and had in fact undergone a Christ-like sacrifice) which would explain why he didn't get the same treatment.

Dharma were just interested in the island's strange properties. The electromagnetism, the healing properties of the place etc. Since it was a remote location, I guess it was also great for those psychological experiments.

Desmond survived because he is immune to the electromagnetic forces that would normally kill people. I assume this was as a result of him turning the key to detonate the hatch at the end of season 2. Not quite sure how, though.

The island teleporting was actually invented by the Man in Black (notice the wooden wheel in his flashback episode), and seems originally to have been a way for him to escape the island. (Remember, when the island teleports, the wheel-turner gets teleported somewhere else - ie. away from the island). I assume this is done through some kind of magical harnessing of the island's electro-magical-light powers. We already know that the island is constantly moving anyway (Eloise Hawking's crazy chalk-pendulum-room episode) so it's not a huge step to say it can move somewhere at will.

With time travel - well, I guess if the island can teleport in space then it can get messed up in time as well.

As for Walt, and the Numbers - I don't really know. I suspect that, since each number corresponded to a Candidate, the fact that the numbers kept reoccuring was a way for Jacob to hint to the candidates that the numbers were important, so that when they found out what they meant, they realised that this meant *they* (the Candidates) were important. I'm not totally convinced by this theory, though.

Also, I suspect the island is a sort of reinterpretation of Eden. It's guarded by a "flaming sword that turns every way" (ie. the electro-forcefield thing that means you can't get in or out unless you follow a specific bearing), there's some weird birth-stuff going on there (perhaps a result of the childbirth-curse that God puts on people in Genesis) and an Original Sin takes place (killing MiB) which is a combination of the Fall of Man (lets evil into the world in the form of the smoke monster) and Cain and Abel (brother kills brother). I'm not saying this for religious reasons (I'm actually an atheist) but a lot of parallels can be drawn between the two stories.

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th May 2010 10:54
I just watched the finale finally. One question:

How did Ben Linus get the tree off him? He was stuck one minute, and the next minute he's with Jack, Sawyer and Hurley on the cliff. Wait--- what!?


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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 29th May 2010 16:05
I think it explains all. Something like "It never happened, they were all dead. Everything that happened was a figment of their imaginations. Ha ha, got ya, didn't we?"

Thraxas
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Posted: 29th May 2010 16:17
Quote: "It never happened, they were all dead. Everything that happened was a figment of their imaginations."


Except that's not what happened. Only the alt world 'sideways flashes' from the final season were not real. All the island stuff was real.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 29th May 2010 16:48
Quote: "All the island stuff was real.
"


...You sure? Not what I got out of it.

Still, this makes my brain implode sometimes.

I was actually playing twenty questions with a friend one time, me and someone else trying to guess a TV show. After a while my friend says "I'm so confused..." After hearing that my first instinct said "Lost!" and I got it right.

Metal Devil123
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Posted: 29th May 2010 17:10 Edited at: 29th May 2010 17:12
It's like every other comment is from a mod! lol.

I didn't like Lost (yes, the whole series, not only the ending) at all. I think it was just going sillyer and sillyer, continued and continued, and it was like... supposed to be so nice. For me it was trying more than achieving. Almost the same thing with PRison Break. That wasn't any good eather. I was actually thinking of not even starting to watch Flash Forward, becouse I thought it was going to be the same thing. Thank god it wasn't. It's a really good show.

But that's just my opinion, so.... don't go crazy if you don't agree with me.

EDIT* And if you're asking, "why did you come to this thread, if you hate lost?" Well, becouse I misunderstood the title of the thread. See, Lost Ending. But I decided to leave my opinion thou.


Heimo Vesa ROCKS!!!!!
Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 29th May 2010 17:14
Quote: "...You sure? Not what I got out of it."


Yup. Everything that happened on the Island was real. Jacob was real, as was the light and the MiB and everything. So all the sacrifices which the characters made (particularly Jack) were worth doing because they helped to protect the island.

The flash-sideways turned out to be a kind of collective purgatory for all the Lost-characters, so that they could all meet up again before "moving on". I like to think that, in some way, this was their reward for making all those sacrifices.

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Posted: 29th May 2010 17:47
How come Penelope was in the flash-sidewayses then? I didn't think she died. (Or Desmond, for that matter).

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 29th May 2010 17:51
Quote: "How come Penelope was in the flash-sidewayses then? I didn't think she died. (Or Desmond, for that matter)."


In the flash sideways they are all dead, as there is no "now". But they all die at different times.

Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 29th May 2010 19:02
Yes, the flash-sideways is outside of earthly time, as far as I can tell. This means that Jack (who dies at the end of season 6) and Locke (who dies earlier) and Hurley (who presumably dies much later) all seem to enter and experience the flash-sideways world at the same time.

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Shadowtroid
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Posted: 29th May 2010 20:39
*brain explodes*

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