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Geek Culture / Learning a second language

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hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 17:24
Hi everyone. It's been a while since I last popped in here, but I figured this would be a great place to discuss the topic since there are so many people from all over the world.

I'm currently trying to learn Spanish as a second language, and I suddenly have a lot more respect for people who doesn't speaking perfect English. Where I come from, it's almost unheard of for someone to know more than just English (unless they're a native Spanish speaker), so I need to turn to you guys for a little understanding.

I've been studying Spanish mostly with computer courses for about the last 6 months. How long does it take before the language finally "clicks" in your brain? Can you actually "think" in a second language? These are things that have been going through my mind, and I'm just curious, since I don't personally know anyone who is truly bilingual.

I know there are people here who know several languages. I don't know what is wrong with most English speaking people(especially us lazy Americans) that they practically refuse to learn another language well, but I've decided to be one person that pulls up the average.

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lazerus
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 17:28
Strange you should mention, i was talkin to a native spanish speaker friend the other day about this. He way saying that when hes in scholl and with english speaking friends, he thinks english, but when hes at home and speakin spanish he thinks spanish.

We found it strange lol

Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 17:39
Age generally plays a big factor, and how you're learning the language. If you're around people a lot speaking that language, you'll tend to learn much faster (and it'll stick more). A 10 year old in an environment where everyone speaks that language will usually become fluent much quicker than those that are older, outside of such an environment.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 17:42 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 17:44
It comes from just doing it after a while - not sure how long it took for German to kick in for me...although my German is only on a basic level.

Do I actually think in the second language? Sometimes I do, and I think it comes from actually speaking to people in German - okay, for a lot of things, I still have to stop and think, but there's stuff I can naturally say.

For example, I went to Spain last semester, after having been to Germany the month before, I don't speak that much Spanish, I just know the gestures, yet, often or not, they'd come out German, because German is the second language that has stuck to me...in a restaurant, instead of saying 'muchos gracios' I embarrassingly said, 'vielen dank'.

I'll probably say that maybe it took a year or so. My advice is just to go around speaking it, even if it's just yourself. For example, walk into the kitchen and say to yourself, 'ich mochte kase bitte', meaning 'I would like cheese please' in German or 'ich bin mude' if you're getting tired, and you can pick it up that way.

However, yes, age is a factor too...I'm not sure if I'm more susceptible to learn German because I lived there when I was 3 years old, or it's practice or it's both. But either way, you need to be talking it in order to get the hang of it.


Anyway, in the spirit of my advice, now, darf ich toiletten gehen bitte?

Isocadia
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 18:10
Well, I learned dutch from my father, french from my mom and english from my grandpa. So I'm actually trilingual. Well, it takes some time before you can think in a language. What I see is that when I'm in holland I think in dutch. But the moment I enter Quebec. I start thinking in french. So I think its the atmosphere or whatever your in that makes you think in a certain language.

Isocadia

hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 18:21
Thanks for the responses so far. I do know a girl who's trying to learn Spanish, and that definitely helps to try talking to her in Spanish. But we're both at such a beginning level, it's rather difficult to have much of a conversation.

I've been doing a lot of searching online for anything written in Spanish. If I go to Spanish news sites, I can understand a little of what's written, but I can't grasp the whole meaning yet.

Seppuku,
Quiero aprender español, no alemán. I know Google Translator isn't always exactly accurate, but did you really ask what it says you did? Puedes usar el baño.

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Image All
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 18:26 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 18:28
I started being able to understand most of what I read in German after a few weeks with the Rosetta Stone, but I think that's mainly because German is such an easy language for an English speaker to pick up. I took a year long break from German, even when I was supposed to be practicing (yay laziness) but I can still play Runescape in German

also, i do find that after a grinding session on Rosetta Stone i tend to think in German sometimes, though mostly in broken grammar, or the types of illogical word combinations you think in dreams, since it's still in the fermenting process.


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Accoun
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 18:51 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 18:53
Well, since I'm polish, it's english for me that is my second language. But if you mean second foreign language then yeah, also for me it's german.
Also I've tried to learn japanese, but since my group disbanded it wasn't much I may try to learn from books...

Make games, not war.
jeffhuys
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 19:12 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 19:16
I'm Dutch, and I (almost ) completely master English. But that's because I learned it when I was sitting on my brother's lap (when I was ~6-7), browsing the internet.

I also talk a little bit German (Deutsch ist toll, ja! ) and a bit French (Je m'appelle Jeff... Je vis aux Pays-Bas.). That's all. Maybe a little Spanish as well, but I've got to dig very deep for that.

All this was learned on school... Standard learning packet (Dutch, German, English, French, Spanish, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, maybe 1 more that I forgot.)

I guess you can almost consider English as a foreign language of me.

You may have a hard time learning a new language, depending on your age.

EDIT: I tend to actually think in English a LOT. And even that is a understatement. Most of the time (when I'm talking Dutch), my sentences are mixed with 50% English. Most people need a while to understand me. Can be annoying at times, haha.

Also, when I'm typing this, or reading this board, I think in English. When I'm programming, I think in English. I can really switch to Dutch, and back.

zapakitul
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 19:16
From where I come from knowing 2 secondary languages is something really common. At least for me, depending on the situation I think in English, Spanish, French or Romanian(Native).

Learning a new language is easy, especially if you stayed for a few weeks in a county that speaks that language. Also be sure to watch a lot of movies in a foreign language (with subtitles in your language). You have to get accustomed to that language. Don't even think about learning a new language the way my dad learned Spanish, by learning the words from a dictionary!!!
The Slayer
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 20:40 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 21:03
Quote: "darf ich toiletten gehen bitte?"

Now, WHY would you do that?

As on topic: I know three languages, Dutch, French and...tada...English. I learned my French a little bit in school, but I really got the hang of it while I dated a French speaking lady. Hehehe! At first I talked to her with some kind of sign language (), but eventually I got pretty good with my tongue.
My English I learned by watching a lot of movies and by writing lyrics for a metalband I never started.
And my Dutch I learned...well, from beeing a Belgian.
I think that age is not that important to learn a different language. Sure, kids learn way faster than older people, but if you're really into learning another language, then the best thing to do is to speak it as much as you can.
Yeah, people start to think in another language after a while. It's like, at first you would search for the words before you speak them, but after some time, the words come out naturally.
However, I must admit that when it comes to swear or when you're upset, you'll rather speak in your native tongue than another language.

Cheers

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 20:48
Me gusta habla Espanol . Es muy divertido y interesante!

In all honesty, I've enjoyed learning Spanish all through my GCSEs, and I'm hoping to get an A on my Speaking and a B on my Listening and Reading . I used to learn French, but, IMO, it was actually pretty crap, and Spanish was a subject in which you could laugh at half of the words (and understand many of them). So, overall: German, French, Spanish. Es mi amigo mejor .

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
Lemonade
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:16 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 21:28
Quote: "Me gusta hablar Espanol . Es muy divertido y interesante!"


Fixed. Se la corregí.

I am learning Spanish as a second language. I think it's more fun than English.

SikaSina Games
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:18 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 21:19
Oops, missed that I blame my screen.

-EDIT-Hang on, I thought that was the preterite tense spelling? Oh well .

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
Lemonade
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:23
Nope, hablar is infinitive.

SikaSina Games
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:25
Oh.... Smart-donkey

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
Lemonade
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:31
Quote: "Oh.... Smart-donkey"


Perdon?

tienes una zanahoria.

hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:33
LOL! I went to google translator to see what "smartass" would be en español, and it said "listillo". So, translating listillo back to English, it says "bright spark." According to a spanish dictionary, it seems to be pretty accurate, though.

Me gusta hablar en español tambien.

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:42
@Lemonade,

Si, si...todos para ti...

Tengo una grande...cabeza .

Quote: "tienes una zanahoria"


Espira que es por la burro? De otra manera, tienes es tengo, actualidad .

Translate THAT. Ha .

Quote: "Me gusta hablar en español tambien."


Nunca todos amos . Mi hermano es un pato, y me encanta patos .

Back to my original tongue...

Yes, Spanish is rather fun IMO. I love the language can't get it out of my head.

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:50
He was saying you have a carrot, not I have a carrot. He was giving you un regalo.

¿Por qué es su hermano un pato?

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 21:54
Quote: "He was saying you have a carrot, not I have a carrot."


Bueno. Vistar, vistar .

Porque mi hermano actúa del uno. Mi hermano es humano, pero le gusta actúa del un pato .

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
Lemonade
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 22:02
Quote: "He was saying you have a carrot, not I have a carrot. He was giving you un regalo."


Correct.

Melancholic
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 22:05 Edited at: 1st Jun 2010 22:06
Jeg kan taler dansk og engelsk!, though i allways think in english no matter the situation. Ive learnt danish just by being in the country realy, Best way to learn in my oppinion as your forced to.
SikaSina Games
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Posted: 1st Jun 2010 22:09
Oh, estoy fatal ahora . No me comprende alleman, soy muerto . I went on a school trip to Málaga a few months ago and I learn quite a bit of Spanish sentence construction there, which is why I always use complex sentences instead of basic ones, otherwise it make me feel n00bish at the language . So that's probably why tengo muchas problemas en mi frases .

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
BearCDP
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 04:17
I hope to learn Spanish too. It would help when I came back to AZ for the sumer & winter.

Spanish seems to leak into my friends' slang because most of us (excepting myself) took it in high school or jr. high. Calculator is forever calculadora, same with telephone/telefono. And any sort of expression of pleasure or liking something is definitely spoken in a mixture of broken English and Spanish.

The reason I never got very far with my Japanese courses, is because few people speak Japanese in the two places I've lived, and even then people who speak Japanese are usually 99.99999% or more fluent in English. So, good news is you're in a good environment for practicing (at least until SB1070 starts getting enforced ).

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 06:56
I've been taking Korean lessons for a few weeks now and have started dating the teacher. There's more than one way to enjoy learning a new language


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Dextro
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 09:12 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2010 09:16
I'm a native spanish speaker, and the best advice I can give to you is to do many exercises in which you analyze each element of a series of sentences, of increasing complexity.
Try to identify the subject, noun, verb, direct object, indirect object, sustantives, etc.
This way you will start to at least "think" with spanish structure; a huge step forward towards your goal.
The rest is just vocabulary and localization.
Spanish has many, many variants. If you learn spanish from a latin american context, you won't understand much if you're in Spain.
SikaSina Games
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 22:21
Ah, muchas gracias, Dextro .

I'm doing that from now on then .

-SSG

--=. ,=--
"Death is a surprise party. Unless, of course...you're already dead on the inside." - John Kramer, SAW III
zeroSlave
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 22:31
Quote: "If you learn spanish from a latin american context, you won't understand much if you're in Spain."


Very, very true. I took Spanish in school, and did pretty well. Then, while storm chasing I worked with loads of folks from Central America(El Salvidor, Guatemala, etc.) It took a little getting used to at first, but after a couple trips to Mexico with them, I was fluent in all the cuss words and learned quite a few slang words that you wouldn't be taught by Rosetta Stone. Really, the best way to learn is just dive in and surround yourself with the language. Most of the people that spoke Spanish around me, actually learned English when they came to the US and watched tons of cartoons with subtitles on.

Quote: "I've been taking Korean lessons for a few weeks now and have started dating the teacher. There's more than one way to enjoy learning a new language"

Lucky man. Yobosayo, indeed! I also worked with a few Korean chaps...

My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
The Slayer
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2010 23:18 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2010 23:20
Quote: "I've been taking Korean lessons for a few weeks now and have started dating the teacher."

Oh, now I understand why you where'nt too pleased with that joke I posted a while back about that Oriental language.
Well, for the record, it was JUST a joke, ya know? Not meant to hurt someone.

Cheers

Slayer rules!!! Yeaaah, man!
Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 03:28
Quote: "Oh, now I understand why you where'nt too pleased with that joke I posted a while back about that Oriental language.
Well, for the record, it was JUST a joke, ya know? Not meant to hurt someone."


Noo... I wasn't pleased because it was a racist joke

In fact I only started dating her about 1 week ago


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Chad301
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 13:29
I was just surfin and found this post. I've been learning vietnamese for close to a year now with rosetta stone. My fiance and I have vienamese friends who speak pretty good english so we decided to learn their language. We can have pretty good conversations but nothing too in depth. I know every now and then I will think in vienamese, but only really when I want.

Quote: "Try to identify the subject, noun, verb, direct object, indirect object, sustantives, etc.
"


Pshh I can't even do that in english lol. You almost have to have a good teacher for speaking a new language who will correct your word placement. And always remember they say english is the hardest language to learn, so every other one must be easier.
dab
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2010 17:10
I learned Spanish, it was fun, easy, etc. Want a challenging language? Try German. The nouns and conjegation is annoying difficult. Not because it's hard but because it requries pure memorization. Everything depends on the gender of the noun.. In Spanish, you have hints as to what gender it is, o masculine, a feminine. In German, there are no such hints. You just have to know what gender it is.... Not fun my friends... Not fun...

Libervurto
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Posted: 4th Jun 2010 09:14
Sadly English schools are way behind. At age 12 you decide if you want to learn German or French (or in rare cases Spanish), no one really cares about foreign languages and it was a joke in my school. When I did my exams every other exam was in the school hall and properly run but the foreign language ones were just in a normal classroom.

It actually annoys me how ignorant British people are to other countries, especially mainland Europe. When I worked in blockbuster I lost track of the number of times someone brought up a film they liked the look of, then almost had a heart attack when I told them it was a foreign film.

We take a pop at the US for being isolated from the rest of the world but we're just as bad IMO.

Peter H
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 05:46 Edited at: 5th Jun 2010 05:55
Ustedes tratando de hablar español son hilarantes. Sólo se sabe frases de "Rossetta Stone"

Quote: "I've been taking Korean lessons for a few weeks now and have started dating the teacher. There's more than one way to enjoy learning a new language"

ha, i was in korea for 6 months dude...

all the korean i know i can only write in korean (never learned the "proper" english spelling of any of it). Of course most of what i know is just conversational, so i can only guess at writing it. Luckily korean writing is a breeze to learn, compared to something nasty like chinese (*shudder*)...

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BearCDP
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 15:32
Quote: "I've been taking Korean lessons for a few weeks now and have started dating the teacher. There's more than one way to enjoy learning a new language"

Score!

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charger bandit
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 16:29
I know four languages:

-Slovenian (primary)
-Croatian (very simmilar to Slovenian)
-German (not fluently but I know quite some words)
-English (very fluently )


Bootlicker
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 16:55
I can obviously speak English due to the fact that I am English, and I'm predicted A* in GCSE.

I can also speak German, not fluently exactly but I can have a conversation with a German and understand what they mean, what to do etc. This may be due to the fact that I've lived in Germany for about 8 years of my life, so just under fluent I would class myself.

I also know a little Spanish (very badly) and teeny French


Aaagreen
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 17:09 Edited at: 5th Jun 2010 17:12
I can speak English.

The end.

And I mean English English, not American english. (Colour, neighbourhood, pronouncing Tomato correctly (It's obvious who wins the spelling/pronounciation battle. The language is called English, not American.))

I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
mgarand
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 17:24
I speak Dutch,English,Frensch,German

The end.



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The Master Dinasty
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Posted: 5th Jun 2010 23:05 Edited at: 5th Jun 2010 23:07
Quote: "Jeg kan taler dansk og engelsk!, though i allways think in english no matter the situation. Ive learnt danish just by being in the country realy, Best way to learn in my oppinion as your forced to. "


I am not going to stopp you if you are danish but I am norwegian and I think it should be like this "Jeg taler dansk og engelsk"
Well in norwegian "Jeg snakker norsk og engelsk"
I belive in a united kingdom between Norway,Sweden, and denmark. I wish we could Unite our contries speaks almost the same launguage.

In a way I speak in Norwegian,English,Danish and swedish

I wish I was born into a english speaking country, serously i speak better english then my norwegian (Its a shame really). (However my writing skills lack in both Norwegian and English)

-Massap2

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2010 10:43
I triedd to learn a different language one time, spanish, looked at the first lesson for 5 seconds, and quit.

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Lucifer
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2010 11:33
Quote: "Jeg kan taler dansk og engelsk!"


Danish sounds like very very drunk people trying to speak.

But unfortunately i can read and speak Danish quite well, although sometimes (not always) when someone tries to talk to me in danish it's extremely hard to understand, sounds like drunk gibberish.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2010 11:49
Hjelp! Er det noen som kan engelsk her? Det er et nødstilfelle.

James_TGC
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 17:59
Great thread and its interesting to read everyone's opinions. I am also looking to learn another language and Spanish is also currently looking like the most likely option!

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Sepnon
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 22:50
lol
i speak spanish, portuguese and a bit of english: born in paraguay, live in brazil
Melancholic
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 23:16
Quote: "I am not going to stopp you if you are danish but I am norwegian and I think it should be like this "Jeg taler dansk og engelsk""


Yep your right, my bad Ive spoken english all my life and have learnt danish over the past year as i now live there. I make mistakes by just translating english to danish sometimes

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