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Work in Progress / World Off Road

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Zeus
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 23:17
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Quote: "Also, the faster they go, the more easily they flip... so it's pretty well balanced at the moment"


Ah, I see. Then keep it up with what you are doing. I love it either way.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 23:24
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I figured it wouldn't be too much of a problem - after all, everyone loves WOR, regardless of the speed, and you can still race in slightly slower vehicles...

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Zeus
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 23:26
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Yeah, love the acronym WOR btw.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 23:45
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Quote: "@ Melancholic
Well originally the game was going to use ODE physics because it comes with DBP and everyone can run it so it would all be nice and simple.

However, ODE is missing commands like joints etc. so it would have been a bit silly.

I've never tried Newton and don't really hear of many people using it (regardless of how many times I've been recommended to use it)

And XenoPhysics isn't done yet, so that wasn't really an option.

So I guess the only advantage in using DarkPhysics (or PhysX) is that it handles all the commands I need and I spent money on it so I might as well.

If someone can convince me that Newton physics can do everything DarkPhysics can or if XenoPhysics gets finished any time soon, I may switch to either of them as I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it an inconvenience that you need to update your graphics drivers to play WOR. (It's of course, even more of a problem when you get cards that simply can't run it at all, like yours. )

So yeah, I basically have very little option as it stands at the moment. "


Ah well, though its not like Dark physics is a finished product from what ive read

Im currently using Xeno in a project and have run into a few blocks so i understand about that. Though it was to my knowledge that Newton>Dark Physics. Anyway im probably wrong, and its probably more work to convert the physics at this point. Maybe a small launcher could be made to install the driver, or atleast aid in finding the driver and such.

Anyway im liking the overall look of the game. I may boot up my old pc and try this tomorow
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baxslash
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Posted: 6th Jul 2010 23:47
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If you want some help on getting the vehicles to work better at higher speeds just let me know as I've been playing with it a lot for my game "Hell for Leather!":
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=170702&b=8

I have DP (as well as just about every other plugin) so just send me the code if you want and I'll have a go at getting it working my own way...

Frankly if soharix needs another helper I'm happy to help any time!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 00:49 Edited at: 7th Jul 2010 00:54
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@ Melancholic
Well, unfortunately for us, DarkPhysics is apparently a complete product. However incomplete it feels in some areas (softbodies, dynamic meshes, vehicle physics)

The game's only like 2205 lines, and the physics content is quite small, so I don't mind converting if someone assures me the engine they propose can actually do everything I need it for. xD

@ baxslash
I can make the vehicles drive faster if I want to, but due to the friction and width of the tires they topple when going round corners. I don't mind this because it just means people have to learn to brake properly, like you would in a real car.

xD The only areas we need help with in WOR are vehicle models and music for the music player. - Everything else, as far as I'm concerned, is under control.

@ Anyone concerned with vehicles toppling too easily
The wider the vehicle and the wider the wheels on the vehicle, the less likely it is to topple. - As well as this the final version of WOR should feature fitting of different tyres to vehicles so you'd be able to have any of the following combinations:

(This means if you find yourself toppling too often, you can sacrifice some speed for drifting-capabilities. )

This has all been tested in previous versions of WOR and works great, but currently all the cars are set to normal friction because I haven't made the options for changing tyres yet.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 03:58
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v0.14

This ones just a quick update but necessary none-the-less for those who want to race with their own music or wish to skip certain tracks.

v0.14 features:
* An ingame menu that pops up at the top of the screen and allows the player to switch between 1st and 3rd person views in the cars (rather than guessing the key to do it with) and to stop/play the music or change track.
* I also think I fixed some bugs or something but I can't remember now... xD

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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 10:49
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Quote: "vehicle models and music for the music player"

I might be able to help there... send me a model so I can see how you have them set up and I'll try to whip something out to you.

What style of music do you need? Track lengths?

Email me if it's easier

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C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 13:28
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@ baxslash
Well, sending a model would be impractical, seeing as you've already got the game. xD - The vehicles are stored in: Data\Object data\[Vehicle's-name]

They are basically set up with 3 models, a (dumb) body (dumb as in not set up with DarkPhysics), a front wheel model and a back wheel model.

The wheels should be centred in all 3 axes and rotated so that the hub caps point vertically upwards (so the wheel rotates around the Y axis)

The body should just be offset so that the wheels match it when loaded into the game. Now, that isn't too important because we can jig it around when it's done, but we definitely need both the axles for the wheels to be level (on the same Y coordinate)

Music wise, well, any music without lyrics that fits with a racing game will do. I'm not too worried about lengths but don't give us a 10 second loop xD (or a 3 hour track for that matter)

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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 13:42
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Quote: "sending a model would be impractical, seeing as you've already got the game. xD"

Doh!

I'll take a look and make a model today. As for music I can come up with something I'm sure... maybe tonight if I get time!

Any particular kind of vehicle you fancy?

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charger bandit
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 14:51
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I might just do a muscle car for this game


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C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 20:16
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@ baxslash
xD Alright, and well, I don't mind what vehicles people make, as long as it could theoretically drive offroad with 4 wheels. (Although we have a snow mobile in the mix which will have 2 backwheels and 2 hidden front wheels in place of dumb-skis )

But whatever it is, don't make it terrain specific as this game should include at least Alpine, Dunes and Swamp terrains eventually.

@ charger bandit
Yeh that's what I attempted to do when making Crunch. - It was meant to be a kind of muscle-rally car, but just looks silly at the moment.

Just make sure if you make us a vehicle it has wheels big enough to pull it along the ground. (If you make a vehicle with tiny wheels, it won't go very fast - similarly, if you make a monster truck we may just have to turn down the torque for that particular vehicle as the wheels would make it go a lot faster than everyone else. )

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Jimpo
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 20:57
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I played around with v0.14 for a bit, here are some notes:
-As stated many times, cars tip over too easily. I flipped over every time I made the jump in Alpine 1. This really ruins the fun of zipping around neat race tracks and making cool jumps.
-It's hard to tell where the track is, especially in the Dunes where there aren't trees to guide you.
-There was one music track that was just low quality, high pitched screeching.
-When I flipped over, it sometimes took forever to reset me. Is there a button I'm supposed to press?
-Ran at a smooth 66 fps
-Shadows worked well along with the stylized, consistent graphics, especially the menu and gui.
-The whole checkpoint and lap system works flawlessly

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C0wbox
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Posted: 7th Jul 2010 21:06 Edited at: 7th Jul 2010 21:56
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@ Jimpo
Cheers for the feedback.

Depending on the car, I can either say, "choose a different car for that terrain" or "that car will be changed later" so I'm sorta letting this problem slide until we've got the cars finished.

The Dunes races aren't done yet, and I'll be adding trees to them later.

Which music track was that? - Did it sound broken or did you just not like it? xD

Oh yeah, it hasn't really been explained too well but you just hold down forwards (or backwards) when you've flipped and it'll respawn you. (I didn't want to make it so you respawned straight away because you may want to take pictures of your spectacular crash and where you landed. (I know I've done this in TrackMania))

GLaD the FPS is smooth and the gameplay worked for you

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C0wbox
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Posted: 8th Jul 2010 02:21 Edited at: 8th Jul 2010 19:14
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v0.15

I finally got round to making the palm trees for WOR and as well as this, I decided to go and remake Dunes1 (Dunes2 will come later).

So basically v0.15 features Dunes1, for those of you growing tired of snow.

Screenshots:


The checkpoints for Dunes will be redone later.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 8th Jul 2010 20:31
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For those of you unable to play WOR in its current state, here is an up to date video showcasing the current state of the project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9GPVd9MnTU


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TheComet
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Posted: 8th Jul 2010 21:41
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Looking really good

I just can't help it but laugh when he says "checkpoint" It sounds like a butler serving something to the queen of England or something... No need to change it though, it's fine as it is

TheComet

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C0wbox
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Posted: 8th Jul 2010 21:44
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xD

I'll have you know I did all the sound effects myself. So unfortunately, that is pretty much my voice. (I did a little bit of echoey editing. )

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Jimpo
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 01:43
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Quote: "Which music track was that? - Did it sound broken or did you just not like it? xD"

It was the first one that played in the races, not sure if that one always plays first or if it was just a random coincidence. It just sounded like the file was really low quality or over compressed. The other music sounded fine.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 03:20
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xD No the music player is random, so there is no "first one". You're gonna need to tell me the name that comes up at the side xD

Either that or click the button in the top right and skip that track whenever it comes up.

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 12:06
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Looking good dude, I don't have internet fast enough to get physx at the moment so I can't play :-( but one note would be that from the latest screenshots, it looks like your shadow opacity for baked shadows is different from the shadows on the cars.

It's just a case of increasing the ambience in the baked light mapper, or increasing the opacity in the shader..

I want robotic legs.
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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 12:29 Edited at: 9th Jul 2010 14:25
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Sorry it's taking so long I got a bit sidetracked by the Space Invaders comp...

Here is an image of the "Bug" I'm working on:


My music software has stopped working but I'm hoping to get it working again soon!!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 13:21 Edited at: 7th Feb 2011 00:25
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@ Butter fingers
Well, I'll have to see if T.ED allows you to change the opacity. :S Thanks for the tip though

@ baxslash
! That looks awesome.

Judging by the wheel sizes in relation to each other (and the wheel widths) it should behave differently to Rumbler, which is what I'm after: no 2 cars should have the same performance.

Although there will be a problem with first person view if you have the windows like that. - I know Trax and Crunch currently have solid bodies at the moment but they will be re-done just like Rumbler and Tense to have open cockpits where the player can switch to first person view and sit in the car rather than drive it from behind. :S

Oh and I see you kept the badweek tires xD - That was a pun on blobby's part. He just wanted something that wasn't goodyear.

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Ermes
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 13:30
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i played the demo, i like the physics of the cars, and the worderful water effect, how did you make it??? (the water effect)

great game.

ogni scarafone è bello a mamma sua.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 13:40
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@ Ermes & others interested in the water
The water uses the shader found in Evolved's shader pack; nothing too special: you've all got access to it xD

The shader uses 1 extra camera to render the scene for refraction.
(I could set it up to use another camera for reflection but the game is already slow enough as it is, so I don't want to slow it down any more. )

I turned the shader off in 2-player splitscreen because it's already using 2 cameras to render both views, so to have 2 for water refraction ontop of that means the game would need to be able to render each frame 4 times in under a 60th of a second, which is pushing it with around 100k polygons onscreen sometimes.

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 13:51
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@baxslash
Is that screenshot taken with a shader in DB or photoshopped, or your 3D software? If it's a shader in DB then we need to talk. Like

I want robotic legs.
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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 14:28 Edited at: 9th Jul 2010 14:28
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Quote: "Is that screenshot taken with a shader in DB or photoshopped, or your 3D software? If it's a shader in DB then we need to talk."

Sorry, it's from Sketchup

...I bet someone with a knowledge of shaders could replicate something like it though, Green Gandalf maybe?

Anyway C0wbox I've attached the model here:
https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2045284

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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 19:49
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Bug is awesome and is fully set up and working. But I'll only be including it in v0.16 onwards if I get a model with an interior for Body.x (because in its current state, the first person driver position doesn't work. )

Here is a picture of Bug in edit view (the 1 only I can access ):


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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 21:09
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Quote: " But I'll only be including it in v0.16 onwards if I get a model with an interior for Body.x (because in its current state, the first person driver position doesn't work. )"

OK, I'll sort that out. Didn't realise there was a first person mode sorry!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 21:27
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! How could you not realise this xD

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baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 23:01 Edited at: 9th Jul 2010 23:01
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Updated Bug attached:
https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2045517

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Melancholic
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 23:18 Edited at: 13th Jul 2010 16:52
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Hey Cowbox, a couple questions/critisisms

1.)Im just wondering, as the physics engine is made by nvidea, does this mean that the drivers for the physics engine are not available for ATI cards?

2.)Ive watched all the videos on your youtube channel and it looks like paths could be a nice addition , so people know where to go

3.)Do you want/need any help with making media and such?, im more than happy to help

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 23:24
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@melancholic - OK, The standard Nvidea PhysX drivers will almost definitely work on your ATI card. There is not much about PhysX that uses the GFX card so if you just download the standard Nvidea PhysX driver it will work.

Also, as I'm sure Cowbox will tell you, The game is meant to be Off Road (as the title suggests) so paths wouldn't really make sense

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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 23:32 Edited at: 9th Jul 2010 23:48
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@ baxslash
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=2045547


It's now a different scale and half the textures don't work. xD - I also don't see an interior. :S

Also, don't be afraid to use lots of polygons. - I give blobby a limit of about 5000 per vehicle. - Because they're the things you'll see most in World Off Road.

@ Melancholic
1. Basically just download your graphics cards latest drivers and the PhysX drivers will come with it. I mean there used to be specific drivers for PhysX for ATI cards but I think they're just included now.

2. Yeh blobby took the words right out of my <insert sensible word here: post/fingers/keyboard> the game is meant to be kind of a, "get through the checkpoints as fast as possible" type game, not really a "here's the road, stay on it" game. - So if anyone finds they can climb over a hill faster than driving round it, go for it. !

3. All we need in terms of media at the moment are vehicles and music. So yeah, anyone's allowed to help with those.

@ blobby 101
agj,hasgjkash jklK!H!!!!!!!!!!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 23:46 Edited at: 9th Jul 2010 23:47
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@ baxslash
Here's a better picture to show you what's wrong. - I also opened it in DX viewer and I see no interior. xD - Are you sure you changed anything?
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=2045555

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baxslash
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 00:28
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Try this one, not sure why the last one didn't work. I just stuck this one in the Rumbler folder and it worked fine...

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baxslash
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 02:26
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Here's a music track too! Finally got the software working again!!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 03:30 Edited at: 10th Jul 2010 03:38
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@ baxslash
Well that 1 worked. - The reason swapping Rumbler for Bug doesn't is because Rumbler is made by blobby who is terrible at getting the scale right, so I've had to scale Rumbler differently to Bug, who are both scaled differently to the other cars.

Although, having said that, your dashboard seems to be backwards xD:


As for the music - that's more the kind of music I wanted for World Off Road in the first place - Who shall I say it is by though (for the music player artist part)

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baxslash
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 11:16
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Quote: "Although, having said that, your dashboard seems to be backwards xD:"

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Just reverse the image in GIMP...

Quote: "As for the music - that's more the kind of music I wanted for World Off Road in the first place - Who shall I say it is by though (for the music player artist part) "

Great, I'm glad you like it! You want more?

Could you rename it "Hit the Dirt" by baxslash? More appropriate than hit the road when it's "World off Road" right?

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C0wbox
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 13:28
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@ baxslash


Yeah, if you can provide more, we definitely need more.

<Renames to a more appropriate name xD>

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C0wbox
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 13:48 Edited at: 10th Jul 2010 23:52
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v0.16

v0.16 features:
* A wider Tense, so it's actually drivable.
* Bug, fully operational.
* Hit the dirt - By Baxslash

Screenshots:


I also took the time to set some "Official times" for the 3 completed races in the 3 completed cars. So consider yourself awesome if you beat these times:
Dunes1 - Tense - 0:46:18
Dunes1 - Rumbler - 0:48:62
Dunes1 - Bug - 0:45:24

Alpine1 - Tense - 0:25:45
Alpine1 - Rumbler - 0:27:27
Alpine1 - Bug - 0:23:92

Alpine2 - Tense - 0:36:30
Alpine2 - Rumbler - 0:37:74
Alpine2 - Bug - 0:34:24
(Some of them can probably be easily beaten as I didn't spend much time doing them, but other are probably close to the fastest you can do the track. - Take it from someone who got first place in England on TrackManiaUnited on 1 race (4th in UK) and came 3rd on TrackManiaNations at a 60-man LAN once.)

Sig test


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Blobby 101
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Posted: 10th Jul 2010 23:35 Edited at: 10th Jul 2010 23:53
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Hello, Earthlings...

I'm making a set of music tracks to go with each car - at the moment only one is finished ("Rumble") which, believe it or not, is Rumbler's 'theme'.

Coming up will be:

"Tension" for Tense
"Traction" for Trax
"Bugged" for Bug
"Crunchy" for Crunch

EDIT: sig test

There will be more for other cars that haven't currently been made.

Hopefully these music tracks will reflect the feel of the cars too

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Zeus
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Posted: 12th Jul 2010 21:37
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Nice. Sorry I haven't been checking on this, I have been busy with my city simulator (very hard). But all of this looks great! Getting ready to play v0.16 as soon as I can tear myself away from my city simulator and Civilization. I will update you with my opinion on the game later.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 12th Jul 2010 22:27
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!

Don't expect v0.17 any time soon I'm waiting on the new menu (which is being done by TheComet) and Trax redone (being done by Blobby101). Depending on how long they take will determine whether I do Dunes2 or not as well. (And if they take forever I may even start on Swamp1 and Swamp2 )

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swissolo
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Posted: 12th Jul 2010 23:08
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This is pretty good, but I also think the cars are a bit slow. What you could do is just update the physics more often. Dark physics always seems like it is in slow motion to me, and I think you would be surprised at how much more realistic it could feel. Keep up the good work!

swis
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C0wbox
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 00:06
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@ swissolo
Hmm, well I've already doubled the gravity from -9.8 to make it seem more realistic. I'll have a look at using phy update twice but isn't that just as bad as using sync twice?

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Zeus
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 01:34
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Love this version of the game. I am addicted to the bug I am afraid.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 02:02
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@ Zeus
I know, it's quite a cool lil car to be honest.

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swissolo
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 17:28 Edited at: 13th Jul 2010 17:37
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Oh, I figured you were using fixed timing because Baxslash posted a really effective method (even though the commands shouldn't have been functions (I make that mistake occasionally too , lots of us do.)) I was surprised at how much more effective it was than phy set auto fixed timing. Here's a link to it, since I didn't write it. http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=91285&b=15 (it's currently the last on the list of posts.)

edit: I set the shadows to 2 and I found a small bug (not the car) The shadow the bridge casts (Alpine 2) can be seen on the surface of the water and underwater, if your using the built in shadows(I think you are) I don't think you can fix this, I could be wrong though.
It isn't like it's really noticeable, I just wanted to make sure you knew.

swis
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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 17:41
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Quote: "even though the commands shouldn't have been functions"

It doesn't stop it from working in my program... I guess using labels would mean you don't need to add the variables as globals but what's the difference really?

PS. I didn't write it either but I may have changed it slightly I can't remember

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