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3 Dimensional Chat / Does this walk animation look okay?

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 19:43 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2010 19:46
Just wanted an opinion on this animation to see what people think.

I'm ready to call the walk good enough and move on to the run or eating animation, but I wanted to get some other opinions first.

(see attached video)

Thanks in advance

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness

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General Jackson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 20:38
Yes it's decent.

I think its good enough. (But the mesh needs a LOT of work

mike5424
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 20:38
What GJ said

---
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 22:37 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2010 22:42
Quote: "I think its good enough. (But the mesh needs a LOT of work "

I agree, thanks.

You mean, it doesn't look like a camel yet?

I didn't start shaping the body yet, and yes the head looks more like a dinosaur. (which made we want to do some dinosaurs)
However, it was the animations that I was worried about, because I usually don't do characters because of the animations.
I was never that great at animating animals walking, running, etc. so I usually stick to animating machinery, like vehicles and such.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
General Jackson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 23:24
To tell the truth you should not use MS3d for modeling, it doesnt have many tools to help you out. If you want to use it use it for animating (though I prefer Fragmotion for animating much more)

Use wings 3d to make the models. It is EXTREMELY powerful and free.

Then take a single primitive (Cube would be good) and make the entire camel out of a single cube, or else it will look like a bunch of camel parts stuck together, and wont flow if you know what I mean.
If you need help let me know.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 01:12 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 01:29
Quote: "Use wings 3d to make the models. It is EXTREMELY powerful and free.

Then take a single primitive (Cube would be good) and make the entire camel out of a single cube, or else it will look like a bunch of camel parts stuck together, and wont flow if you know what I mean.
If you need help let me know."

That's okay, I like Milkshape 3D and I'll stick with it.
I did use more than one primitive. (3 spheres and 6 cylinders with 5 stacks each)
This way I can have animations of severing the limbs if I want, like chopping its head off or something.

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General Jackson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 03:39
Lol.
In wings 3d theres a way to divide up the mesh without using different primitives and therefore keeping the flow.

Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 05:22
@Conjured Entertainment: I think GJ is saying that if you used only one primitive instead of many, the mesh would have better flow because everything would be attached and extruded from the starting primitive. It wouldn't look like the limbs were just "stuck on", as it does when you use multiple primitives.

@GJ: I think "EXTREMELY powerful" might be a liiittle bit of an overstatement. I've never used it, but based on what I've read, and the models I've seen come out of it, Wings looks like it doesn't offer much more than what every competent modelling program should. I'm sure Milkshape also has some sort of mesh-splitting function.

Azunaki
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 05:41
to be honest it feels a little slow and there is not movement in the body or neck.

wings is very powerful i toyed with it a while ago. but it is only a modeler and uv mapper which is its only down side.

[url]http://myportfolio.x10hosting.com/[url]
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General Jackson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 06:07
No Kira, Wings is different. I can make whatever I set my mind to in it. No need for any other program. It is VERY powerful.

Dia
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 08:46 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 08:46
only comment I would have on the animation is that the body doesn't move.

It takes a little bit more effort to include, but the hips and shoulders need to rotate as the legs move. It only needs to be about 5 or 6 degrees of rotation on each step, but it adds a huge amount to the overall effect. Otherwise it just looks like the legs, neck and tail are autonomous body parts rather than parts of the whole animal

when the animal is running and the movement gets more violent the lack of body movement is even more pronounced

This is not the Sig you are looking for....
Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 16:14
@GJ: As you could in any other competent modeller. It's all a matter of how much time and effort you're willing to put into learning the software. I never said Wings wasn't a competent modeller.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 17:31 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 17:33
Quote: "to be honest it feels a little slow and there is not movement in the body or neck."

Yeah it looks slower in the modeling program than it does in the engine.
It will look faster in the engine, and there is movement in the neck it is just subtle.
Maybe the movement in the neck will be more noticable when it is being played faster in the engine.


Quote: "only comment I would have on the animation is that the body doesn't move.

It takes a little bit more effort to include, but the hips and shoulders need to rotate as the legs move. It only needs to be about 5 or 6 degrees of rotation on each step, but it adds a huge amount to the overall effect. Otherwise it just looks like the legs, neck and tail are autonomous body parts rather than parts of the whole animal

when the animal is running and the movement gets more violent the lack of body movement is even more pronounced"

Right, at this point the body doesn't move, nor do I want it to in the walk animation.
I will have it moving in the run so that it will distinguish to the animation with something other than just speed.
The run is a gallop and the legs move differently as they become more paired with the one next to it, meaning the hind legs move together instead of alternately.
Right now though I was only concerned with the walk.

I guess I should go ahead and make the other files to get this thing into FPSC, then we will have a beter idea of the way it will look in play.
Maybe that neck movement is too subtle, and I will know for sure then.


Thanks for the comment guys, but I still like using multiple primitives.
I'm glad none of you want to because that will help make my models become recgonizable.

"OMG, the mesh doesn't flow because it's not made from one primitive!"
"Yup, must be one of Conjured's models."
"Yep"



   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 18:33
It wasn't to advise you on the number of primitives you should use, it was to advise you on how to make your mesh flow better. Using only one primitive forces the mesh to flow together a little better. Of course you can get nice flow from starting with multiple primitives, but it's usually harder, and right now, your legs look rather stuck on. One of the main reasons is that the legs are not actually connected to the body. Intersecting geometry like that never really looks good.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 18:49 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 18:51
Quote: "@Conjured Entertainment: I think GJ is saying that if you used only one primitive instead of many, the mesh would have better flow because everything would be attached and extruded from the starting primitive."



Quote: "It wasn't to advise you on the number of primitives you should use, it was to advise you on how to make your mesh flow better."


Oh sorry, I took the one in italics to mean that you were not only advising the number to use but stressing the fact it should be only one.

My bad

It doesn't matter though, because I understand what he meant the first time he mentioned the flow.
This character is supposed to be cartoon styled, so the mesh not flowing doesn't matter.
The animation is what I am trying to nail down at this point, not the mesh. (I wanted to make sure the animations would be acceptable before wasting time perfecting the mesh)
Like I said, I know it needs a lot of work, but this one is just a low poly game model thing, not a high poly real life rendering like you guys make.
So, the mesh flow doesn't matter for this one, but thanks for the advice.

   Conjured Entertainment

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General Jackson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 18:50
Quote: "@GJ: As you could in any other competent modeller. It's all a matter of how much time and effort you're willing to put into learning the software. I never said Wings wasn't a competent modeller."

True.

BTW loved your Dragon, what program do you use? blender?

Quote: ""OMG, the mesh doesn't flow because it's not made from one primitive!"
"Yup, must be one of Conjured's models."
"Yep""


ROFL

lazerus
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 18:55 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 18:57
If you give me a bit, ill realese my dragon base mesh a little early. Its not finished but im sure you can model a head and taper up his tail. ^__^"



I was planning to realese this guy anyway but i think an early dump might help you with working out the kinks with the animation.

Obj/3ds in the Dl

-Con

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 19:01 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 19:12
Quote: "ROFL"

A real indie developer only needs to ask for advice; he doesn't have to take it.
FTW

But seriously, I do appreciate the advice and I will try these things you suggested just to see the difference.
I really need a texture too in order to fully test that flow when I do weld this thing together, and texturing is what I really fail at.
So, if you want to really critize this thing, then just wait until you see the texture for it.
But I'll have to tweak that mesh first, which is after my animation, so hang on...


Quote: "If you give me a bit, ill realese my dragon base mesh a little early. Its not finished but im sure you can model a head and taper up his tail. ^__^"
...
I was planning to realese this guy anyway but i think an early dump might help you with working out the kinks with the animation. "

Okay I need to make my mesh together because that looks really nice.

Thanks

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Kira Vakaan
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 19:19 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 19:21
@GJ: Thanks! Yup, Blender. I used to be a Max guy, but then I tried Blender and never went back. lol

Quote: "Doing things my way since 1981"

Wow, I was -9 then.

Well I suppose you're "Doing things my way", but usually people finish the mesh before rigging/animating. Also, I think that mesh flow is unrelated to texture. I mean, it's really just making sure all of your loops are in place and that they help define the features of the model.

Edit: If this process of doing things works for you, more power to you, I mean, tried and true for other people doesn't have to be tried and true for you. However, tried and true for others is tried and true for a reason.

General Jackson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 19:57
Quote: "If this process of doing things works for you, more power to you, I mean, tried and true for other people doesn't have to be tried and true for you. However, tried and true for others is tried and true for a reason."

Mmm-hmm.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 24th Jul 2010 04:37
Quote: "Edit: If this process of doing things works for you, more power to you, I mean, tried and true for other people doesn't have to be tried and true for you. However, tried and true for others is tried and true for a reason."

I thought I made it pretty clear that I was only doing the animations first because I was unsure about being able to pull them off.

I didn't ask for a modeling lesson, just if the animations looked okay because I am not used to doing living creatures.

Sorry that I asked, and I wish I had of done the mesh first if I had known that it would be difficult for you to grasp.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
General Jackson
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Posted: 24th Jul 2010 05:04
No reason to be offended, CE, we're just trying to help you out

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