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Geek Culture / Apple has officially loosened its restrictions for 3rd party dev products for iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad!

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 02:17
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This is really good for those of us who purchased tools like Unity or Flash 5 which enable iPhone/iPad development. Previously Apple wouldn't let you submit these games to their AppStore unless they were compiled directly through XCode.

http://www.148apps.com/news/apple-publish-app-store-guidelines-thirdparty-dev-tools/


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Indicium
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 02:23
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Good to see they're getting the message.

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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 02:26
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So will I finally be able to write my own app without a mac or not?

BASIC programmers never die, they GOSUB and don't RETURN.
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DJ Almix
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 02:40
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Still will never get me to buy an apple product. They had control over apps before, but now there lacking and competitors are better. This picture sum's up my views:



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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 02:52
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I don't know what that green thing is... I'm guessing I should? or does it just represent a generic consumer?

Yeah... I can't imagine really developing apple-specific applications for fun or practicality... Only for money xD

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 03:21
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Quote: "They had control over apps before, but now there lacking and competitors are better."


I believe the market and actual data would beg to differ


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 03:26 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 03:27
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It's the mascot for Android.

I personally think this is good news, because I'm going to go back to learning Unity when I've got a more powerful PC, which may be a Mac Mini and I'm going to get myself an iPod Touch, so when I've got the hang of Unity, it'd be worth investing in the iPhone version and score a little bit of cash from the AppStore.

Quote: "I believe the market and actual data would beg to differ"


Again, I think it's the fanboyism. It appears nobody is allowed to even mention the word 'Apple'. This is why I think Apple haters are more annoying that Apple fanboys.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 03:51
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Quote: "...I think Apple haters are more annoying that Apple fanboys."

I completely agree with you, Sepp.

Same can be said for Microsoft haters and Linux haters. Fanboyism I can deal with to a certain extent (as long as the fanboy in question doesn't think they're elite and the best computer user ever), but haters? They drive me nuts.

It can be said that I'm a Mac fanboy, even though I've never owned a computer made by Apple in my life. However, I've played around on them enough and have several friends who've let me on their iMacs before, and I just love the way the OS works. I'm currently saving up for the iMac that has a 3.06GHz Core i3 processor, which I'll dual boot Win 7 on for development in DBPro and light gaming. The Mac OS X side will be for video/film editing as that's what I really enjoy using a computer for. Probably for internet use, too.

---------------------

Er, sorry, didn't mean to get off-topic.

This sounds really cool, I'm glad Apple's finally loosening up a bit. Once I get that shiny iMac, I might look into game dev for the iPod Touch...I'd love to be able to make my own little games for it.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 03:54 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 03:58
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Quote: "Quote: "I believe the market and actual data would beg to differ"

Again, I think it's the fanboyism. It appears nobody is allowed to even mention the word 'Apple'. This is why I think Apple haters are more annoying that Apple fanboys."


I like apple, but why put app restrictions in the first place? I would love an iPhone, but there personally are better things I have in mind. I'm not an android fan boy, but I like it's style of markets and open source, no rules attitude. I'm glad they are putting less rules on things now and it's a step in the right direction. I also don't hate apple I just don't use it because it does not suit my needs. I would say that most Home PC users should be using a Mac because a lot of what main computers users do is email, office and things like that.

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Lemonade
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 04:10
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Quote: "I believe the market and actual data would beg to differ
"


You sure?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-google-20100911,0,4793055.story

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 04:41 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 04:42
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well... to be fair, predictions are a LOT less concrete than actual records. Still... that is a very interesting topic...

I agree that haters are almost always more annoying than fanboys: justin beaver (), britney spears, twilight, etc. but...

The thing I dislike about apple is that they're so into self preservation that they can't get their head out of their arse. I don't like the DRM stuff, these limitations on programming languages (though now lifted), the fact that you have to bring it to them for upgrades or fixes, or the high prices. Their MP3 players are great, because that's really a specialized piece of hardware... but I think its safe to say that a good mp3 player has few characteristics in common with a good computer, and when you're trying to make a phone that can do the things a computer can do, the same thing applies.

That's saying nothing about the actual product, which is more important than all the plaintext-blubber I just filled part of a page with. It's great for a media center... but my favorite things about computers are the open source/freeware things, and the technologically deep things that focus on how to make something work on this complicated thing (as opposed to technology with visual and legally restrictive semantics covering it).

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Lemonade
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 04:46 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 04:46
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Quote: "well... to be fair, predictions are a LOT less concrete than actual records. Still... that is a very interesting topic..."


Actually, according to this very similar article (did MSNBC or LA Times plagiarize?), Android is already number 1 in the USA:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38929461

Quote: "Android became the No. 1 operating system for U.S. smartphones in the second quarter, according to a report last month by industry tracker NPD."


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Michael P
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 11:40 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 11:44
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Well my personal opinion is that android is not yet as good as the iPhone OS; they are still one step behind. The app store on android is no where near as good in terms of quality or quantity. Android's app store is full of crap, with the occasional gem where as its the opposite for apple's app store.

Anyway why hate Apple? They create solid products that people want and like. They do what any money making company does, try to squeeze as much money as they can out of their market. You complain about apple being overpriced and restrictive, well what about when I goto Waterstones? I can buy all those books elsewhere for half the price!

And btw, the fact that Android has more of the market than iPhone is meaningless. Android market to a completely different customer, iPhone is marketed to the top end of the market whilst Android is available across the entire spectrum.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 12:00 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 12:42
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Quote: "Anyway why hate Apple?"

I hate apple cos of their cheap advertising schemes. (i wouldn't mind so much if it was actually true...)







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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 12:45
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Quote: "Same can be said for Microsoft haters and Linux haters. Fanboyism I can deal with to a certain extent (as long as the fanboy in question doesn't think they're elite and the best computer user ever), but haters? They drive me nuts. "


Yup, definitely, it's the arrogant kind of fanboy that drives me nuts - "we're better than you so there!" But then I'm not a fan of arrogance anyway.

Quote: "I hate apple cos of their cheap advertising schemes. (i wouldn't mind so much if it was actually true...)"


Their advertisement methods aren't anything new. How many products say they're better than the leading brand? "PCs" refer to any piece of PC hardware running either Windows or Linux, so it could be an Acer with Ubuntu or a Dell with Vista. Businesses are competitive, so generally I ignore what a company's business model is and judge their products based on their products, so as result, all an advertisement can do for me is inform not persuade. You probably could find things in MS's practises that you don't agree with, it's just they're not staring you in the face so they're less noticeable.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 14:23 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 14:32
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Quote: "How many products say they're better than the leading brand?"

Loads, i have absolutly no problem with that.
However, because mac doesnt have things to pick at windows they make things up, watch through their adds and see all the things that apple makes up. That is what im annoyed at, it is Apple themselves who are the haters of windows. (also they claim things about their own OS which are untrue..., eg suggesting macs cant get viruses, and macs never crash)

I think you would hate people who pick on what you like.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 15:01 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 15:03
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It wouldn't stop me from buying their products. Admittedly I enjoy the UK adverts, but then it's Mitchell and Webb and I enjoy their humour. Heck, it's not even new for businesses to be deceptive with how they advertise themselves. Apple's PR probably isn't the best in the world, but then bad PR has never stopped me from liking a product or the service a company provides. To me, it's the product or service that counts. If I were to start making decisions based on company's PR or even if they have douchebags within their company (as some hate Apple because of Jobs) or clientele (some people hate apple because of its fanboys), then I'd be heavily restricting what products I could buy.

Also, I generally don't hate people who pick on what I like, because a lot of people in the world do it. I might find it annoying, but I don't hate people for it.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 15:07
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However buying apple products just fuels their advertisements, and therefore hating on windows, even when steve jobs and bill gates were interviewed together he tried his best to make windows look worse where bill gates was just being honest, and i admire that.

Sure apple makes some nice applications, id say alot of them use up un-needed amount of CPU compared to some open sourced equivalent, and i guess their iphone is kinda marketed towards the application being attractive even though you end up doing more to get the required result. And in some ways i like that, but im not going to turn around and put money into peoples pockets who are pretty much bullies.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 16:58
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Apple is back on my Xmas list


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AutoBot
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 17:06 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 17:09
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I have no doubt that macs are good computers to use, but I think Microsoft could beat Apple at their game any day... But they haven't yet, because they're more mature than Apple.

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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 17:12
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Quote: " It fails miserably."

I've installed mac OSX on my pc before. I removed it because I preferred windows.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if they're haters or fanboys or whatever, if the product is what THEY want just leave them alone, Macs are useful for all kinds of things like video editing etc, where windows is better for games and (imo at least) usability. Linux is good for the slightly more computer literate users and is brilliant for open source development.

As I said before, it boils down to what you, as an individual, want.

BASIC programmers never die, they GOSUB and don't RETURN.
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 17:19 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 17:23
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Quote: "As I said before, it boils down to what you, as an individual, want."

I agree with that, I just don't like how Apple is luring people with their false advertising. I've used a mac before, and I enjoyed it, but their advertising is corrupt. I would respect Apple a lot more if they stopped claiming they're "better" than other OS's.

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 21:24
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Quote: "I would respect Apple a lot more if they stopped claiming they're "better" than other OS's."


"Better" isn't quantitative so there's no way to measure it, so it's not technically false advertising.


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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 21:37 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 21:38
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Actually, since apple is claiming something that isn't measurable, it's false advertising. I suppose lots of commercials do it, though.

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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 22:00 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 22:09
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Wow... Another innocent thread turned into a Mac bashing session. If you don't like Macs or other Apple products then no one is making you buy one. How about not trashing every Apple thread if you have no interest in Apple products to start with. No one made anyone come and post Apple bashing trash on this thread. Why are you wasting your time on a system/company you hate? The Apple users are not telling anyone to buy Apple products and that everything else is bad. No one here as an agenda to push Apples on others. Whats the deal ?
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DJ Almix
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 22:05
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Quote: "Wow... Another innocent thread turned into a Mac bashing session. "


Just like every other time.

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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 22:10 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 22:21
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I know!! Why can't everyone just get along? I suppose if there wasn't any competition, there wouldn't be anything pushing the developers to go further.

Back on topic: does this mean it's possible to create iPhone apps from a windows-based system?

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sprite
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 04:53
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AutoBot you can already program ipod apps on a windows machine. DragonfireSDk it allows for builds to be made on windows. However once built you have a program you send it to the DragonfireSDK to get them to recompile it then they send it to the store as your publisher.

The good thing no need for a mac, access to apple store with lower costs and has some apps in the app store.
The bad you have a middle man, you don't own the app in apples eyes they do, middle man could go bust leaving you high and dry, SDK not yet able to take full advantage of the Iphone SDK.

For the flash to iphone not sure what will happen there no code has yet been allowed in but that may change.

I'll add something later on.
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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 07:23 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 07:24
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Delete this, it accidentally double posted :/

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 07:23 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 07:33
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Quote: "Wow... Another innocent thread turned into a Mac bashing session."


We arnt bashing macs, we are bashing their marketing schemes.

And i dont think they literally say their better, they just make up different scenarios and claim they are better in that scenario, even if it is completely untrue.

It is false advertising for the most part and if your some guy who knows little about computers, you want a new computer, you see these adds, you get this idea:

PCs bluescreen/crash every few hours.
PCs constantly get viruses, sure we get viruses but no where near as much they make out.
If you get a PC you will most likely be a boring 40 year old guy.
If you get a PC you will have to be clever to understand it.
PCs break if you would physically accidentally push them in anyway, their example is their power cable being pulled out.
PCs can not make good movies at all (they compare a hot girl to a transvestite).
PCs take ages to setup after you have brought them.
PCs cannot work if they make videos more than several times, and listening to music degrades it.
PCs constantly restart, in their example its every 10 or so seconds.
PCs are desperate because they are bad.
UAC is so restrictive it constantly asks if you want to do anything or receive anything, anyone who uses windows knows it does it nowhere near as much as this add and it generally only does it when you run an application, which for the most part is good.
PCs take ages to upgrade, it is extremely complex and they show it as surgery.
PCs never come with a webcam.
PCs users have to be extremely careful of spyware and viruses and need to constantly virus scan.
You cant make movies and fun stuff on a PC, you can only make stuff like 'piecharts' as they say for fun...

Macs are more compatible than PCs.
Macs cant crash, it is impossible for them to go wrong.
Macs cannot get viruses.

And the list goes on...


That is what some guy watching these adds gets, all of what i said is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h1VQBfLDLA Is prolly their only true add.


[edit] somereason it double posted can a mod delete the first one please

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sprite
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 17:10 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 17:20
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Lol. You lot hate Apple marketing for bending the truth. This its really laughable Microsoft have been doing the same for ages. Lets see vista is an improvement over XP. We all know how well that one went.

All business, the church, government, family, friends and not to suprisaly adverts all are bending the truth to an extent. An example some magazines say this is the best (insert name product here) ever read here. However you can bet they will have a new best item ever read here by next month.

Personally I don't see everyone complaining about. If you need to complain about so called false adverting there are government bodies for it. On a forum it doesn't help anything but derail the thread. If you want to talk about advert then make your own thread about it.

Funny video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg&feature=related

PC kills mac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZPYOVqu4Ms&NR=1

I'm one for taking the micky on both sides.

I'll add something later on.
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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 17:15
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Quote: "Quote: "Wow... Another innocent thread turned into a Mac bashing session."

We arnt bashing macs, we are bashing their marketing schemes.

And i dont think they literally say their better, they just make up different scenarios and claim they are better in that scenario, even if it is completely untrue.

It is false advertising for the most part and if your some guy who knows little about computers, you want a new computer, you see these adds, you get this idea:

PCs bluescreen/crash every few hours.
PCs constantly get viruses, sure we get viruses but no where near as much they make out.
If you get a PC you will most likely be a boring 40 year old guy.
If you get a PC you will have to be clever to understand it.
PCs break if you would physically accidentally push them in anyway, their example is their power cable being pulled out.
PCs can not make good movies at all (they compare a hot girl to a transvestite).
PCs take ages to setup after you have brought them.
PCs cannot work if they make videos more than several times, and listening to music degrades it.
PCs constantly restart, in their example its every 10 or so seconds.
PCs are desperate because they are bad.
UAC is so restrictive it constantly asks if you want to do anything or receive anything, anyone who uses windows knows it does it nowhere near as much as this add and it generally only does it when you run an application, which for the most part is good.
PCs take ages to upgrade, it is extremely complex and they show it as surgery.
PCs never come with a webcam.
PCs users have to be extremely careful of spyware and viruses and need to constantly virus scan.
You cant make movies and fun stuff on a PC, you can only make stuff like 'piecharts' as they say for fun...

Macs are more compatible than PCs.
Macs cant crash, it is impossible for them to go wrong.
Macs cannot get viruses.

And the list goes on...


That is what some guy watching these adds gets, all of what i said is wrong."



That is all great and such. Only one thing to consider. Almost everyone that uses Macs started out on PCs Because of the price of Macs and how common PCs are almost everyones first experience is with a PC. Why do people change? In my case a lot of the stuff you listed is true. I don't run antivirus software and have never gotten a virus on my Macs. In four years and three different Macs I have NEVER had the computer lock up. In fairness I do sometimes have Safari lock up on certain sites.
Easy enough to fix and I could just use another browser. I still have and use PCs and always will. There are things that Macs do better though and those things are important to me. My iMac makes absolutely no noise when running. My main PC sounds like a jet taking off with all the fans I have to run to keep it cool. I have a couple of very large dogs( Mastiff and Saint Bernard) in the house that occasionally sling a little drool on things The tightly closed, aluminum and glass of my iMac is very easy to clean. The PCs are much harder. When I turn my Macs on I can be on the internet with 30 seconds. My PCs take about two minutes to become stable enough to get online. My iMac has a 25 watt speaker system build in that sounds great so no cords and separate boxes needed. Actually the only connection to my iMac is the power cord. I love not dealing with a rats-nest of cables behind it.
Time Machine has saved my backside a few times. Yes I have changed hard drives and added memory to my Macs in the past. People that say you can't upgrade don't know what they are talking about. No a video card upgrade is not possible in the iMac line, but most other components are. If you visit the Mac site one of the pictures and selling points of the MacBook is about how easy it is to take the back off the computer and that the end-user can upgrade memory and hard-drives. So much misinformation by people that just pass along stuff they have heard, but have no first-hand experience with. It is sad really
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Michael P
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 17:34 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 17:36
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Quote: "That is all great and such. Only one thing to consider. Almost everyone that uses Macs started out on PCs Because of the price of Macs and how common PCs are almost everyones first experience is with a PC. Why do people change? In my case a lot of the stuff you listed is true. I don't run antivirus software and have never gotten a virus on my Macs. In four years and three different Macs I have NEVER had the computer lock up. In fairness I do sometimes have Safari lock up on certain sites.
Easy enough to fix and I could just use another browser. I still have and use PCs and always will. There are things that Macs do better though and those things are important to me. My iMac makes absolutely no noise when running. My main PC sounds like a jet taking off with all the fans I have to run to keep it cool. I have a couple of very large dogs( Mastiff and Saint Bernard) in the house that occasionally sling a little drool on things The tightly closed, aluminum and glass of my iMac is very easy to clean. The PCs are much harder. When I turn my Macs on I can be on the internet with 30 seconds. My PCs take about two minutes to become stable enough to get online. My iMac has a 25 watt speaker system build in that sounds great so no cords and separate boxes needed. Actually the only connection to my iMac is the power cord. I love not dealing with a rats-nest of cables behind it.
Time Machine has saved my backside a few times. Yes I have changed hard drives and added memory to my Macs in the past. People that say you can't upgrade don't know what they are talking about. No a video card upgrade is not possible in the iMac line, but most other components are. If you visit the Mac site one of the pictures and selling points of the MacBook is about how easy it is to take the back off the computer and that the end-user can upgrade memory and hard-drives. So much misinformation by people that just pass along stuff they have heard, but have no first-hand experience with. It is sad really"

My friend has used a Mac for 2 years and then switched back to windows 7 because he thinks that Windows is faster and more stable than Mac.

I ran windows 7 without a 3rd party anti virus since its release and never got a virus so its simply not true that windows 7 is virus prone. Windows 7 will get viruses if you download and run them, but otherwise it won't if you leave windows firewall and windows defender running. The reason why Windows gets more viruses than Macs is because many more people use Windows than Mac, so developing viruses for Windows makes sense. Macs do get viruses, and if they had as many hackers targeting them they'd have the same problems as windows.

Start up time is not an issue for windows 7, just hibernate and resume; performance does not degrade over time.

Apple hardware is nice, but this is nothing to do with PC vs Mac. Windows 7 runs very well on Apple hardware and actually theres nothing unique about Apple hardware besides its looks. You can just as easily upgrade PCs, except you can upgrade anything, rather than being restricted by Apple's business model.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 17:55 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 17:56
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ok, i think sometimes up, it double posted again =S

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 17:55 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 18:08
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Quote: "So much misinformation by people that just pass along stuff they have heard, but have no first-hand experience with."

I was not comparing macs to pcs, i was comparing the adverts 'facts' to their actual lies. All of what i mentioned was a lie by apple.

I dont think i even take 30 seconds to turn my pc on, and when its on it instantly connects, maybe you have unneeded applications loading at the start, which has nothing todo with the OS.

Quote: "My iMac makes absolutely no noise "

this is operating system, not a pc war, windows does not make pcs... my pc is probably just as if not more quiet than your imac, i have my pc right next to my bed and i cant hear it if its the dead of night and im trying to get to sleep.

Quote: "In four years and three different Macs I have NEVER had the computer lock up."

And whats that comparing to? My pc never locks up, ive only had a bluescreen once from downloading an incompatible driver. Before that it was probably... windows ME i had a blue screen.

Quote: "My iMac has a 25 watt speaker system build in that sounds great so no cords and separate boxes needed."

I want to know what you are comparing to if it is an operating system.

Quote: "My main PC sounds like a jet taking off with all the fans I have to run to keep it cool. "

Thats got nothing todo with the OS.

Quote: "Time Machine has saved my backside a few times.
"

PC has restore which i guess is the same, and why is it saving you if macs are 'more stable'? ive never needed restore...

You can buy a pc however u want it, it doesnt need to be molded like apples, u can even make ur own pc from scratch and assemble it and it can be as awesome and as cool or whatever as u want, because Windows isnt as restrictive as Macs, just like linux with windows u can make it be whatever.

Comparing mac to your pc but not talking about the OS is completely pointless, cos u can have ur computer however u want it, and run windows. You can even attach a bobbing churchhil onto your monitor who keeps saying 'ahh yes'. lol

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 18:26
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Quote: "this is operating system, not a pc war, windows does not make pcs"



Why does there need to be a war on this? It's a given, there's strengths and weaknesses of both. The strengths and weaknesses of both is what's leading me to want to own a Mac Mini running both MacOS and Windows 7. Best of both worlds.

Every apple thread so far has had a 'war' in it, isn't it getting a bit tiring? Especially as none of it actually has anything to do with the topics. Somebody attacks apple for one reason or another, then somebody feels the need to defend and thus OS war breaks out. Maybe a thread could do without Apple attacks?

Mac users have their own reasons for using a Mac and PC users have a reason for using a PC...why is it so difficult for people to grasp that very simple logic?

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 18:53
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How about a thread for Mac vs the world?

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 19:30
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Quote: "Mac users have their own reasons for using a Mac and PC users have a reason for using a PC...why is it so difficult for people to grasp that very simple logic?"


Because as far as I can see, a Mac is just a restricted PC in an expensive case without Direct X.


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
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Eminent
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 19:36
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The only reason PC had problems is because they have to deal with thousands of brands that produce hardware, each different then the other, while Mac only has to test it on its own problems and its done.


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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 20:22
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Quote: "The only reason PC had problems is because they have to deal with thousands of brands that produce hardware"

Thats whats made PCs so cheap and therefore popular.

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 20:32
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Quote: "My iMac makes absolutely no noise"

for that price, a PC can run just as quiet.

Quote: "In four years and three different Macs I have NEVER had the computer lock up."

I've NEVER had windows lock up on me, the closest thing to it was hardware boundaries.

Quote: "Quote: "Time Machine has saved my backside a few times.
"
PC has restore which i guess is the same, and why is it saving you if macs are 'more stable'? ive never needed restore..."

Agree'd I've never had to do a system restore. ever.


Both OS's are strong and capable with slightly different markets, and thus are slightly better at different things, it entirely depends on what you need and your budget allows. E.g. in a high end magazine or designers office I would expect to see the clean looks of a mac (even if its actually running windows) as it is an industry standard, but if I was to go and look at a LAN cafe, I'd expect PCs as they're more.. compatible? with games.

IMO the OS boils down to this:
Mac - Design and artwork (mostly 2D, I can't think of any 3D specific modelling software which is better on mac)

Windows - Games. That is honestly the only reason I won't buy a Mac over a PC is that PCs for their price have a larger range of better quality games.

Linux - Office work/open source. It's clean looks and lack of distractions, as well as being completely free, are perfect for office work and small businesses, and almost all Linux users strongly embrace and support the open source community.


ANYWAY.. They really need to ban these OS "discussion" threads full stop, they seem to be getting ridiculously out of hand.

BASIC programmers never die, they GOSUB and don't RETURN.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 20:36
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Quote: "The only reason PC had problems is because they have to deal with thousands of brands that produce hardware, each different then the other, while Mac only has to test it on its own problems and its done."


Quote: "u can even make ur own pc from scratch and assemble it and it can be as awesome and as cool or whatever as u want, because Windows isnt as restrictive as Macs, just like linux with windows u can make it be whatever.
"


Do you know what this sounds like to me? Advantages and disadvantages to using either machine, where personal preference would step in.

PC (weakness) - Problems can arise from having to deal with numerous hardware configurations (I've experienced this myself)
Mac (strength)- Doesn't have to deal with so many hardware configurations, they're more in control because they supply the hardware as well as the OS
PC (strength) - Extremely customisable
Mac (weakness) - Somewhat customisable

A person might like the idea of the same company who creates the OS making the hardware to go with it, another might like the idea of building their own computer...





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Lemonade
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 21:43
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Quote: "You lot hate Apple marketing for bending the truth. This its really laughable Microsoft have been doing the same for ages. Lets see vista is an improvement over XP."


Vista is sooooo much better than XP. For starters, XP looks so old and lacks easy networking\printing options (as well as DX10\11).

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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 21:53
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Quote: "Quote: "Quote: "Time Machine has saved my backside a few times.
"
PC has restore which i guess is the same, and why is it saving you if macs are 'more stable'? ive never needed restore..."
Agree'd I've never had to do a system restore. ever."


This said twice by the Mac bashers pretty much says it all. You guys have no idea what Time Machine is do you? Yes, it can be used as a restore program, but that is not its main function. At least know what you are arguing about if you are going to do it With Time Machine I can go back to May 23, 2009 and get that document I deleted because i thought I would never need it again. Or go back and get that photo I was editing before I messed it up and forgot to save the edit I wanted. Restore is a very minor part of what Time Machine is about. Once again people ranting about stuff they know nothing about...
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 21:57 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 21:59
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Quote: "XP looks so old and lacks easy networking\printing options (as well as DX10\11)"


Looks don't matter, I run Windows 7 in classic mode anyway. Networking and printers are actually easier in XP, IMO. DirectX 10 is useless, and Vista doesn't have 11.

Vista is the operating system between XP and 7 that should be forgotten.


EDIT: There are third party applications for Windows that do that time machine thing. Just because you need to go through 5 minutes of effort to get something that isn't included with Windows, doesn't mean the PC is incapable of doing it. (Something mac adverts seem to imply.)


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
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Lemonade
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 22:07 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 22:10
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Quote: "and Vista doesn't have 11."


Actually, it does: http://www.vistax64.com/vista-news/258647-directx-11-now-available-windows-vista.html

Quote: "Looks don't matter, I run Windows 7 in classic mode anyway."


I disagree. Windows Aero FTW!

Quote: "Networking and printers are actually easier in XP, IMO."


My family and I always had so much trouble settings up printers. We would have to re-set them up every couple weeks, where as Vista automatically detected the printer for us.

Another Vista (or is it Win 7?) lifesaver: The 'Reconnect at logon" feature when mapping a network drive.

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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 22:16
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Quote: "This said twice by the Mac bashers pretty much says it all. You guys have no idea what Time Machine is do you? Yes, it can be used as a restore program, but that is not its main function. At least know what you are arguing about if you are going to do it With Time Machine I can go back to May 23, 2009 and get that document I deleted because i thought I would never need it again. Or go back and get that photo I was editing before I messed it up and forgot to save the edit I wanted. Restore is a very minor part of what Time Machine is about. Once again people ranting about stuff they know nothing about..."

OK, I didn't know that.

BASIC programmers never die, they GOSUB and don't RETURN.
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David R
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 22:17 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 22:21
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Anyone saying Vista's networking (or anything to do with the control panel for that matter) is superior to XP must have a severe memory problem. XP's control panel is about ~15 icons. Vista has many, many more, presented in a random order, with the names changed for no reason besides change for the sake of change (a running theme in Vista). And hiding network settings (and calling it a 'center' for that matter) does not make it easier to use - it makes it bloody irritating.

Also I laugh at the fact Mac OS gets lampooned for being simple, and then complaints are made at XP for being "not easy enough to use"

Quote: "Another Vista (or is it Win 7?) lifesaver: The 'Reconnect at logon" feature when mapping a network drive"


Err.. XP does that (map a network drive in XP and the checkbox for reconnect at logon is literally the first thing you see)

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 22:23 Edited at: 12th Sep 2010 22:26
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Quote: "With Time Machine I can go back to May 23, 2009 and get that document I deleted because i thought I would never need it again. Or go back and get that photo I was editing before I messed it up and forgot to save the edit I wanted. Restore is a very minor part of what Time Machine is about. Once again people ranting about stuff they know nothing about..."

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/features/backup-and-restore.aspx You talking about that? Yeah its called restore, not system restore.

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 12th Sep 2010 22:23
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Quote: "Actually, it does"


Hmph, I didn't know that. The way M$ worded
Quote: "arrives with Windows 7"
implies it does.


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
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