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Geek Culture / PhysX how does it exactly work?

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 11:42
so i am just wondering how does physix exactly work? i mean to play many todays games i need physix to be instaled but having an ATI card, i cant really use physX hardware acceleration. (i tried it on mafia 2 but it really slows it down which is a bummer because i have a powerful card. SO does having an ATI card limit my physics potential or does it just let the multicore CPU process physics or something? how does the whole physX thing work?

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 12:26
If there is no PhysX-Enabled Hardware detected on your system then all the PhysX processing is done on your CPU. This doesn't so much change the accuracy of the physics, just it'll be a lot slower - just like software rendering vs hardware rendering.

It used to be that you could only buy a dedicated PhysX card, but since nVidia's acquiring of Ageia they enabled hardware PhysX on all of their graphics cards.

No use for ATI though. Even if you pair an ATI card with a dedicated nVidia card for PhysX, the drivers don't allow this (thanks nVidia.). There's a workaround for that here: http://www.techpowerup.com/105329/Hack_Released_to_Enable_PhysX_on_Windows_7_with_ATI_GPU_Present.html.


So basically to sum it all up:
1. Hardware PhysX only works on nVidia cards
2. If no nVidia is present then PhysX processing takes place on the CPU (much slower)
3. With a few work arounds you have the option to use your ATI card for graphics, and a nVidia card for PhysX

Hope this helps

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 13:24
so thats why if i enable physix in my games everything becomes slow. even tho i have a 3.4 ghz quadcore...soo software physics rendering/ vs hardware physx rendering dosent really make a difference in the physics accuracy? What about stuff like athe number pf physx objects rendered at one time?

damn nvidia really sucks for monopolysing this stuff. like every single game these days is sponsored by nvidia. I remember the days when ATI was dominating. That was during the 5000 series.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
charger bandit
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 17:58
Just go buy a nVidia then,thats why I buy them anyways. More stuff for same price.


Aaagreen
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 18:06
NVIDIA tends to be more expensive, but they have much better drivers and support, PhysX and a decent control panel.


I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
charger bandit
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 18:17
Actually with the release of GTX460 and GTS450 nVidia takes the lead in power/price as they are cheaper than competitive AMD models.


PAGAN_old
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2010 19:51
i tend to buy the most high end graphics cards. last one i bought was like $400 bucks the HD5870.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
kitty101
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 05:01
lol Ati

Mnemonix
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 06:55
Quote: "
damn nvidia really sucks for monopolysing this stuff. like every single game these days is sponsored by nvidia. I remember the days when ATI was dominating. That was during the 5000 series."


This isn't strictly true. Ageia approached Nvidia suggesting they could port the firmware from their dedicated PPU to Nvidias CUDA. Nvidia have stated that ATI are more than welcome to support CUDA if they wish.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 08:21 Edited at: 6th Oct 2010 08:23
Nvidia is way better... but they ARE a company trying to smash the competition (they're doing a mighty good job of it ).

Someone should make a physics system designed to work with OpenCL... That would be sick!

[edit]
and @ mnemonic: They're still designing the software specifically for their own hardware - that's kinda against the whole idea of utilizing the entire computer's computing power, because its specific to the hardware.

bond1
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 11:56
Yep, Nvidia rocks. In fact, the latest subscription update to 3ds Max now enables Physx hardware acceleration directly in the viewport. Meaning that you can now animate your game models using Physx, then bake that animation down to keyframes! Great for animating explosions, ragdoll, and all kinds of stuff.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 13:11
thats awesome. I wanna learn 3ds max but its to expensive

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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 18:14
its industry priced,

if you want some perspective, Sintel is a 15 minute film and ended up with a budget of (about) $550,000. Thats 15 minutes of film, including credits. So big companies paying 10-20k on software for a bunch of computers is kind of a small proportion of the budget

anyways...

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Mnemonix
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 18:25
Quote: "They're still designing the software specifically for their own hardware - that's kinda against the whole idea of utilizing the entire computer's computing power, because its specific to the hardware.
"


What do you expect them to do? Design CUDA for ATI's hardware as well? Its up to ATI if they want to support CUDA.

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heyufool1
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 21:45 Edited at: 6th Oct 2010 21:46
ATI is great for a budget build. For example I built my computer back in April for $642 and there isn't a game that it can't play maxed out (yet...). With Nvidia I would have to add about $60-$100 to that price tag, which isn't bad at all if you have a job and are not in highschool...

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"
Impulse Game Engine
Image All
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 21:52
i'm out of highschool and still have no job i am a bad person.

but anyway this means that i'm sticking with nVidia next time i get a card.


Remember those old guys? They made epic renders, I think one of them was called DaVinci, and all they used was MS Paint. Sometimes it's just skill....
thenerd
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Posted: 6th Oct 2010 22:16
Quote: "
if you want some perspective, Sintel is a 15 minute film and ended up with a budget of (about) $550,000. Thats 15 minutes of film, including credits. So big companies paying 10-20k on software for a bunch of computers is kind of a small proportion of the budget
"

And sintel was made with blender...

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 01:24
Quote: "i'm out of highschool and still have no job i am a bad person."


its ok me too. Well i had a job... 2 jobs actually. got fired from the first one because i lacked professionalism and quit the second because its full of crooks and scumbags

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 08:53
Quote: "got fired from the first one because i lacked professionalism and quit the second because its full of crooks and scumbags"


>.> Thar be a tough livin' for the mid-professional man.

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 11:46
i thought work would be great and parts of it were but not as great as i imagined it so i kinda got turned off from work. I can easily get a job but i just dont want to work. Instead i think i want to start my own thing

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Quik
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 12:03 Edited at: 7th Oct 2010 12:04
speaking of "cheap builds"
i bought mine comp for like 3 soon 4 years ago, for 745$ and i can play most games UP TO DATE on medium - high graphics
however my graph card died a few months back, so i bought an just like my old one from my bro for 75$ and now my harddrive crashed, but i got a new one, so around 820$ i have spent on my computer

i think thats pretty good, considering it is 4 years old GAMING computer, and since i both play games, model, chat, surf aso it should break down pretty quickly..

oh and yeah i got 2 gb ram last christmas, so it is a liiiitle bit better than when i first bought it xD
4gb naow :3


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Syncaidius
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 14:41 Edited at: 7th Oct 2010 14:51
I've not had any problems with ATI cards so far. The last Nvidia card I had however, just before Black & White 2 was released, was terrible. It kept acting weird, like loading textures onto models that weren't even supposed to be on them, like fences with cow textures on them and stuff, or loading the terrain as a completely red model, even after updating the drivers, which is the reason I originally switched to ATI.

PhysX to me, is just a gimmick. Nvidia charge more for cards with PhysX on them, which from what I've seen on a few friends PCs so far, has no performance gain what-so-ever, unless your using fluids. Most games don't make use of fluids, because not even Nividia's cards can handle enough of it to actually make it worth using (e.g. a river full of fluid water). Crazy Machines 2 so far, is the only except to that, which makes very little amounts of fluid very useful, which could be run by the CPU anyway.

Not to mention the hell you have to go through when trying to get hold of the "free" SDK to try on the pc. I still haven't been given access yet.

EDIT:
I do wish however, that TGC would finish Dark Physics or stop selling it. Its not worth £38.99 with half of the physX sdk features missing and broken or 'slapped-on' features like soft bodies, which felt like it was rushed in at last minute then forgotten about. Also vehicles.... I see a lot of posts in the PhysX board with problems about that part of the wrapper.

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 17:54
yhe last nvidia card i had was in a notebook the 8800m GTX, i fried it, i think its fixable tho for someone who knows electronics a bit. Actually i lied, the last nvidia card i have and still have in my computer is a 6800 ULTRA (the thing is a beast). i have a 5870 in my most powerful AMD computer but then i decided i should upgrade my old pentium 4 with a good GPU so i got an x1950 pro but then i thought i should have got the x1950XT instead

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
charger bandit
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 18:06
PAGAN: Geforce 8000 series were with defective core so all sooner or later died,had two 8400gs and both dead.


Quik
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Posted: 7th Oct 2010 18:56
Quote: "PAGAN: Geforce 8000 series were with defective core so all sooner or later died,had two 8400gs and both dead."


ALL graphics cards will sooner or later die, since everytime you are using your computer all the parts are slowly breaking down. memory stuff like Harddrives and RAM breaks down quicker though, but everything will sooner or later die in your computer. some parts breaks down slower, some faster but they will eventually die.

I have used a geforce 8800GTS 512, for 3 years and i recently had to replace it.
after 3 years.


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 8th Oct 2010 05:02 Edited at: 8th Oct 2010 05:05
actually i fried it by accident, When i was putting together my laptop (after fixing some USB ports) , i usually test it right before i put it back together to make sure everything works, so i checked it turns on loads up everything is fine. Then i started putting it back together. I forgot to unplug it from the power and when i was putting the graphics card in the MXM slot, (the heatsink is kinda huge so i couldnt see much, i grinded it on the slot and shorted out something (i saw a spark) then i turn it on seems to boot up, post beep works, harddrive works i hear the windows sound go on but no display. i spent the next 2 days taking it apart and putting it back together again but nothing happened everything works but no display. so i figured i fried my card.
its ironic that i have worked on many laptops at the time and i never wore a grounding strap and i never ran into any kind of problems. Then this one time i figured this is an expensive laptop and i love it so i think im gonna wear a grounding starp just this once lol. I know it had nothing to do with the grounding but still kinda funny when i look at it

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them

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