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Geek Culture / No Harddrive, No Opticle drive... The new MacBook

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 16:02
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Going for the cheapest option is not always the best option either. I tried that one. Cheap gaming laptop. £700, the Mac equivalent would have cost me a little over £1000 and paying £700 for a Mac at the time would have landed me the basic MacBook. Higher spec, cheaper, brilliant idea. Not when it dies on you after the warranty has run out and a person who bought a MacBook the very same day for the same price I paid for my Acer, still has a fully functioning laptop with no faults to date (mine had its first fault within 3 months). You'll notice price differences between brands, I never trust anything by Dell, so that would include Alienware. I've heard one too many people have trouble with both makes. People with Sony I know have had a better experience (though I still hear stories), but for me to have bought the Sony equivalent of my Acer it would have cost me more money, but it would have less likely to have failed on me. My friend's Sony gaming laptop is still living strong after 2 years, despite a few cracks.

Sometimes you have to ask yourself why something's more expensive. Are they ripping you off? Or have they invested more money into the manufacturing of your laptop? The latter implies they've taken more care over production.

As for comparing MacBook Air to netbooks and notebooks, I don't think they're fair comparisons, you're looking at it as if you were going to buy one. A netbook would suffice for a lightweight laptop and others something more powerful would suffice. But there are other markets out there and I think a MacBook Air could be tailored well to certain businessmen, you want something lightweight and easy to carry but have enough power to fuel your presentations. If you're earning a decent wage as a businessman, you won't mind paying the starting price of £849. That's one market I can think of. The fact Apple are making money out of this (after all, the Air has been out for a while) shows they're appealing to their markets well enough.

Would I buy one? I don't know. If I had an iMac (which I am planning on getting) and had clients to see, I might consider it. Though the starting price is the same as a regular MacBook, I could just go for the MacBook instead. It'd be a question of sacrificing some of the spec for something more lightweight.

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 17:54
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I really haven't read through this whole thread, but am I missing something here?

The new Mac book air is $1200 and only has 64 GB of space and no optical drive. O and some low end hardware.

BUT the 13" Mac book pro is $1200 and has an optical drive has a 500 GB HDD and has better specs.

I'm kind of confused

http://www.apple.com/why-mac/compare/notebooks.html

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sprite
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 18:11
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The mac air one of those light weight laptops. So its normal to get lower spec. Its the same for all light weight computers they are nearly always worst than a normal spec laptop and at higher price.

The mac airs are using the solid state drives. The mac pro are still using a normal hdd but can be upgraded to take the solid state drive.

Not sure where your getting 64gb space from lowest I can see is 128GB.

I'll add something later on.
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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 18:13
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Quote: "Not sure where your getting 64gb space from lowest I can see is 128GB."

Apple said it ranges from 64-512 or something.

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
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sprite
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 18:30
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Its on the lower end models. On the apple link hockeykid gave they list the hdds as "up to 128gb" to make the comparison a bit harder.

I'll add something later on.
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kitty101
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 22:00 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2010 22:12
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Quote: "kitty101 yes building a laptop from scratch it is possible but no one does due to not a lot of places sell all the parts. It would be fun to give it a go though. Both being over priced I couldn't agree more with that."



ugh, you don't build laptops, you build desktop gaming computers then a netbook for 'erry day internet browsing and word documents. Or buy a decent Asus laptop instead of some crappy overpriced junk like alienware.

Quote: "I really haven't read through this whole thread, but am I missing something here?

The new Mac book air is $1200 and only has 64 GB of space and no optical drive. O and some low end hardware.

BUT the 13" Mac book pro is $1200 and has an optical drive has a 500 GB HDD and has better specs.

I'm kind of confused"


TL;DR Overpriced garbage thats completely useless

Quote: "However this all in all the M11x is a gaming laptop. Its not really a business looking or used machine. The M11x would be a waste of a good laptop in a business setup. A nice spread sheet or power point is not its market it is aimed for."


Stop being a tool, M11x is overpriced junk.

Quote: "Same way you wouldn't buy the air for gaming it would be just silly. Its place is being taken from meeting to meeting when shape looks are just as important as that 15min presentation. You in a suit that could buy most people a car or two. You need a laptop that says "I'm the business that mac is you choice"."


You could get a normal laptop that games very well for the same price as a hackintosh air

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Melancholic
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 22:24
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I don't see how you can compare a mac laptop to a pc laptop. You cannot generalize on pc laptops as there are so many manufactures, there is bound to be cheaply made pc laptops as well and overpriced ones. There is no one laptop that represents all


I can count to banana...
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Lemonade
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 22:29 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2010 22:36
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Quote: "The air is bigger on screen size as a bigger screen is more helpful not that m11x gives a larger option. "


I don't know why you are suddenly talking about the 13 inch MacBook, but that's OK. You CAN get a larger version of the Alienware laptop, and with better specs. For example, this machine:

Intel Core i7 quad-core processor
1GB GDDR5 ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 5850
15.6-inch WideHD+ 1600x900 (900p) WLED
4GB Dual Channel Memory (2x 2GB DDR3)
500GB SATAII 7,200RPM [Included in Price]
Slot-Load Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD+-RW, CD-RW) [Included in Price]

...will cost you $1450. Compare that to the 13" Macbook air:

1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
128GB Flash Storage
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics
13.3 inch TFT LED display

...which will cost you $1399.

EDIT:

Or you could get this HP Envy:

-Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-720QM Quad Core processor
-1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 5650 graphics [HDMI]
-4GB DDR3 System Memory (1 Dimm)
-500GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
-14.5" diagonal High Definition display
-SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support (Slot Load) edit

...for $1269. Except for the graphics card, this machine is comparable to the Alienware M15x.

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Eminent
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 22:42
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And the PCs have it! Time for the Windows 7 vs Android vs iOS anyone? Lol. BUt seriously I would rather have a Alienware. They look so freakin cool.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2010 22:48
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I'm guessing the Air is to Netbooks as the iPod is to MP3 players, coming in at a higher price, trying to be the big thing up until people hear about it so much it becomes the next "Hoover"...

I won't buy the Air, I'd never use it. I imagine it couldn't run a Word app, internet and chat program at the same time, (nevermind the fact that I know no-one who uses a Mac OS, so I dunno if I could run MSN/Google Chrome/Word on a Mac)..

And on the PC I'm using now, I'll often have three folder windows, Blender/Paint.Net, UDK, Chrome with a few tabs open, and maybe Minecraft.

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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 00:04
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Hmm, lets compare parts, rather than compare overpriced companies

I'm comparing prices on the priciest model (13 inch), all in GBP, has anybody noticed apple don't understand how exchange rates work

SSD(Model type)
128 - £1099.00
256 - £1349.00

that's a coincidently precise £250 for 128GB more
I was surprised that that's actually the average price for 128GB of SSD (1.8-2.5 sized)



Processor
1.8GHz 1414
2.1GHz 1574

add £80 for an extra 0.26GHz, which again bizarrly the average price



RAM
2GB 1494
4GB 1574

Back on track for the last one, £80 extra for 2GB, the rough price of 4GB of mac RAM, though this is SD ram, and probably has some decent heatsinking




It seems then, that you're actually getting good value for speccing up your macbook, you're just being ripped off for the base model, and therefore being ripped off for buying a mac

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
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sprite
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 01:30
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Lemonade choosing an on offer laptop is not really a comparison. In a week or so it will be $1,774.00 again.

its weight would be a backbreaking 4.08kg or dells 3.4kg vs the mac air 1.32 kg.

Those laptops don't even come near the ulter light weight laptop range. We all know that the ulter light weight laptops tend have a lower grade gear to loss weight but a higher price.

Also your info on the air is wrong. As listed for 13 inch
* 1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
* 2GB memory
* 256GB flash storage
* NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics

However it just depends on what people want for the job. If they want a light weight PC or Mac both are valid for their jobs. Its down to what that person needs and can afford. However in my case the mac was brought for me for work and I was not going to say no to it.

We can play this look at the stats game all day but its boring now.

Eminent seriously I would go for it too for a gaming machine but for work as in going to a meeting in another company sorry but its looks ruin it.

If someone came to a meeting with that I wouldn't take them seriously due to the looks. Mind you knowing the brand I would admire them for their balls for bring one. If I was having to travel to different companies all the time that Alienware would be back braking. That's the airs market a insanely light weight laptop is a good one. Its kind of that type of laptop that work gives you to use you don't go out and buy if for yourself unless your going traveling.

CoffeeGrunt the mac does have office and it even runs on much lower end models. For the internet well firefox has such a low memory stamp it hardly is noticed. We have chrome but I don't use it nor do I use the built in one. However unlike IE8 we can remove ours thank god. MSN I know people who use it on mac but most use aMSN. Its the same thing put simply more up to date as Microsoft are a bit slow on versions for mac.

Open this second on a mac pro. Itunes, silo 2.2r, zbrush 4, unity pro, photoshop pro cs5, painter 11 and firefox 10 tabs. There is a little slow down on zbrush when sub-dividing or light mapping but it happens on all machines. I kick back to some tunes just like we all do. At most if I render an A4 image its around 30mins to a few hours. Depending on render effects and the like. If its larger I just use a render farm. No point waiting 12+hours for an image.

Before anyone asks its a PC and all it does it renders images and moves files to my two backup drives. I have a gaming machine but that's hand built as its cheaper to do so. When I replace the games machine I will make that a render machine its a cycle that I use.

Personally I don't know anyone who even owns MP3 player now its all ipods. Not saying that the ipod is better because alot of MP3 player have a better sound. Hoping that someone will make android version of the ipod soon to force an arms race. Apple have had the market too long to themselves.

Ocho Geek it depends on the what you compare it to. The mac has never been a cheap machine to buy but build quality is what you pay for.

Personally I think all laptops should have a maglock charger. That thing is possible the best charger design I have ever seen.

Normal charger plug in but it has two flaws.
1. Nothing to tell you it is charging. Like a light.
2. If it gets kicked can damage the charger or laptop.

The maglock it has a light, small movement will not effect it but a large hit will simply knock it out.

I'll add something later on.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 01:34
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Quote: "You could get a normal laptop that games very well for the same price as a hackintosh air"


Irrelevant if you're not buying with the intention to use it for gaming. It's being bought for other design features.


Quote: "I don't see how you can compare a mac laptop to a pc laptop. You cannot generalize on pc laptops as there are so many manufactures, there is bound to be cheaply made pc laptops as well and overpriced ones. There is no one laptop that represents all"


Too true. You could probably find PC equivalents to Macs that are similarly priced or more expensive. This is why when I mentioned a Mac Pro, I didn't compare it to a normal PC desktop but a BOXXTECH, which are expensive, but capable of being extremely powerful, like the MacPro. Comparing the MacBook Air, you're not looking at netbooks because it's not a netbook, you're not looking at gaming laptops because it's not a gaming laptop, you're not looking at regular laptops because it's not a regular laptop. It's not trying to appeal to the whole laptop market because it simply can't and a lot of things people are complaining about I think are completely irrelevant to the people who buy a MacBook Air. Yes, it's not cheap, but then it probably costs a lot to make - some obviously consider it to be worth the price tag because they buy it and enough buy it for Apple to invest money into making a new range of Airs. The fact it has GeForce graphics slightly worse than my dead laptop, I am somewhat impressed, considering how slim it is, same with having an Intel Core 2 Duo processor.



Quote: "I won't buy the Air, I'd never use it. I imagine it couldn't run a Word app, internet and chat program at the same time, (nevermind the fact that I know no-one who uses a Mac OS, so I dunno if I could run MSN/Google Chrome/Word on a Mac).."


It's more powerful than the desktop I'm running. It still has decent technology behind it. Can Mac OS run MSN, Chrome and Word? I don't know about Chrome, but yes, it has MSN and Microsoft Word.

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Astro Chickster
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 01:41 Edited at: 24th Oct 2010 01:45
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OK, say you want to use your PC for nothing but the internet and word. Would you pay that much money just because it's smaller and lighter? The way I see it, that makes it less expensive to manufacture..

It's just Apple raping the pockets of people with more money than sense.

Honestly, people must be getting really lazy nowadays if you think carrying a laptop around is hard work.

Quote: "1. Nothing to tell you it is charging. Like a light.
2. If it gets kicked can damage the charger or laptop."


My Acer laptop has a charging light on both the laptop and the power box.

Quote: "However unlike IE8 we can remove ours thank god"


You can remove Internet Explorer quite easily. But can you remove OSX and install something else like with PCs and Windows?
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 01:47
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Quote: "its weight would be a backbreaking 4.08kg or dells 3.4kg vs the mac air 1.32 kg. "


My friend you must be severely lacking in upper-body strength if carrying 4Kg of weight is laborious to you...

That is nothing, I carry more to college and back.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 01:52
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Quote: "Would you pay that much money just because it's smaller and lighter? The way I see it, that makes it less expensive to manufacture.."


That argument doesn't really work here. I'm sure its cheaper to manufacture a 65nm chip instead of a 32nm chip even though the 32nm chip is half the size. Basically why SSD's are so expensive.


I can count to banana...
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Astro Chickster
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 01:58
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Yeah, but there's a difference between charging more for groundbreaking technology and charging more for outdated technology in a flimsy case.
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Melancholic
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 02:04
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Quote: "Yeah, but there's a difference between charging more for groundbreaking technology and charging more for outdated technology in a flimsy case."


I really don't get you on this one, the technology is far from outdated, sure the new core I series is faster clock for clock. But if it does the job well it does it well. Its a laptop, you should full well know that there will be no upgrade path whilst buying this sort of laptop.

Though flimsy case?, it is the same quality you'll find on a dell as there both made in the Foxcon factory in china. Now personally i do not like the design, but to get that thin with decent cooling is an achievement. Though more of an achievement is the fact the thing has a battery.

I don't now if you've ever been inside of a laptop, but if you have you'll know that they are pretty cramped inside


I can count to banana...
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 02:46 Edited at: 24th Oct 2010 02:54
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Quote: "I do like the idea of having the thinnest laptop on earth, but the price just puts me off..."


IT IS NOT THE THINNEST LAPTOP ON EARTH. Stop the misconceptions!

New Macbook Air = .68 inches thick

Dell Adamo XPS (came out over a year ago!) = .4 inches thick.

Apple once again fails to come out on top, even when it's something that doesn't even matter. Seriously, the thinner the laptops get the more expensive and less powerful they get...

OSX doesn't even support TRIM, I don't understand why they are using SSD's? Without TRIM they won't be as fast as SSD's running in a windows 7 PC or a PC running a modern linux distribution after being used for a few months.

Apple Fails once again.
.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 04:20 Edited at: 24th Oct 2010 04:30
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Quote: "OK, say you want to use your PC for nothing but the internet and word. Would you pay that much money just because it's smaller and lighter? The way I see it, that makes it less expensive to manufacture.."


I might not. Somebody else might.

But would I buy a top notch gaming laptop? Nope. Would I buy a netbook? Nope (too small for my liking). Would I buy a £400-500 standard laptop? Maybe. Different laptops suit different people and what they want out of a laptop. If a person wants an ultra slim and an ultra light laptop for any reason, they'll pick a MacBook Air or the Dell equivalent.

I don't understand why people compare it to other types of laptops. To me, it's comparing a Netbook to a gaming laptop. "Why would I buy a netbook? It won't play my games." Or even a laptop to a desktop - for £700 you can get yourself a decent gaming rig or a semi-decent gaming laptop. You can really only compare the Air to the Adamo and they're pretty much the same price for the same spec.

Specs don't matter to every consumer, the difference in thickness or weight might be a contributing factor to sales. Say if both MacBook and MacBook Air (both are priced the same) was capable of doing exactly what the consumer wants, the consumer may choose the one that's lighter, they're not at a loss. You might tell said consumer to buy a PC, but not everybody wants a PC and you never know, if they do, they might just buy the Dell equivalent. So if it does what they want it to do and it works the way they want it and they're happy with what they've bought, where's the problem? Are they being suckered? Such technology isn't cheap to make, so it's unreasonable to expect them at netbook prices, I mean, Dell's solution isn't exactly cheap for its spec either.



But it's funny how every Apple thread to exist on this forum turns into Mac bashing. I've not seen a single Mac fanboy turn up, so it might lead me to believe Mac bashers are more persistent and irritating than the actual fanboys, of whom we all hate.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 10:44
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I see no problem bringing a netbook to a business meeting...
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the_winch
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 14:28
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Quote: "My friend you must be severely lacking in upper-body strength if carrying 4Kg of weight is laborious to you..."


4kg is the same as carrying 4ltr of water. Carrying that sort of weight around all day is something most people would rather not do.

If you are traveling then the weight of the laptop is in addition to all the other stuff. Food, water, clothes and all the other junk people cart around.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 14:34
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Quote: " you are traveling then the weight of the laptop is in addition to all the other stuff. Food, water, clothes and all the other junk people cart around."


The only people I know of who carry their clothes and food on their backs are the homeless and hikers...

And neither need a MacBook Air.

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David R
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 14:50 Edited at: 24th Oct 2010 14:57
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Quote: "Dell Adamo XPS (came out over a year ago!) = .4 inches thick.

Apple once again fails to come out on top, even when it's something that doesn't even matter. Seriously, the thinner the laptops get the more expensive and less powerful they get...
"


You conveniently omit the fact that whilst the body of the Adamo is indeed thinner, the big battery block sticking out the rear of it is about double that thickness

I think the Air, even at its thickest point, still beats the Adamo's ugly screen/battery block

(Even the other Adamo models pull this trick - e.g. one model is genuinely very thin when folded, but opened up, part of the hinge forms a 'prop' that is actually huge. Dell basically hide the thickness of their laptops through length, rather than actually decreasing thickness)

Quote: "OSX doesn't even support TRIM, I don't understand why they are using SSD's? Without TRIM they won't be as fast as SSD's running in a windows 7 PC or a PC running a modern linux distribution after being used for a few months."


I don't think this is correct - the System Profiler has a field saying whether a disk supports TRIM or not - which is a bit odd if the OS doesn't support it.

Or, if it is still unimplemented, it's extremely imminent - 10.6.5 is in the pipeline and will no doubt support it (Apple often roll out new products in a keynote and then release an OS X update to support new hardware features they contain)

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 24th Oct 2010 15:56 Edited at: 24th Oct 2010 15:57
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@DavidR - Wrong laptop. The ugly battery of the adamo is indeed thicker, but the Adamo XPS (completely different!) is uniformly .4 inches thick across the whole body.

The "other adamo" you spoke of that used the trick was correct.

Also, about TRIM:

Quote: "(Be careful, though, that your operating system supports the SSD TRIM command, otherwise you'll suffer severe performance degradation over time with almost any SSD. Operating systems earlier than Windows 7 and the latest, greatest Linux kernel should beware -- and, shockingly, OSX still doesn't support TRIM!)"


Source Article: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/09/revisiting-solid-state-hard-drives.html

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Indicium
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 00:34
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It's only natural that mac bashing occurs on a forum where the dominant product runs on DirectX, don't you think? xD

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Eminent
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Haha so true.


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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 01:41
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Quote: "It's only natural that mac bashing occurs on a forum where the dominant product runs on DirectX, don't you think? xD"


Strange... I am running DBP on my Mac right now. With coherence mode in Parallels it appears as most OSX programs and starts from the Dock running under Win 7. I can also run DOS and XP programs the same way. Can you run OSX and OSX programs in XP, Vista or Win 7?



I am not saying it is perfect with graphic intensive applications, but for the stuff I do it works fine, and I do run DirectX stuff all the time.

[img]null[/img][img][/img]

There are two kinds of computer users. Those that use Macs and those that wish they did.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 02:05
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Quote: "Strange... I am running DBP on my Mac right now."


Quote: "Slow Programmer"


And that's why your programming is slow...

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 02:18
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Can you use latest DX software? such as 10-11

Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast.
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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 02:25
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Quote: "And that's why your programming is slow... "


I may be slow, but my Mac running parallels boots Windows 7 faster than my six-month old Gateway. Yes.... I own PC's (3) as well. Darn, I don't think I can be a Fanboy. I prefer the Macs, but still use PC's. You can actually do both. There is no law or anything against it

There are two kinds of computer users. Those that use Macs and those that wish they did.
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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 02:29
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Quote: "Can you use latest DX software? such as 10-11"


I am limited by the hardware. ATI Radeon HD 4670. I believe that is supported to DX 10.1 only.

There are two kinds of computer users. Those that use Macs and those that wish they did.
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kitty101
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 02:55
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^ no

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Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 03:20
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I think a 1GB gfx card on a netbook is pointless. If you're going to be gaming, then chances are you'll need a cd-rom and thus just buy a normal laptop with a larger screen. The CPU in that m11x is tiny compared to what the mac is using, but it's not really an issue for what the average netbook user requires. It's odd they'd put that much into the graphics but skimp out on the cpu. I think the 256mb the Mac uses is more than enough. My Dell has a 32mb Intel gfx card and it can play WoW just fine (i was surprised).

Netbooks are mostly focused on portability, checking email, browsing the internet, and maybe some word processing or office stuff. Graphics and CPU power is not a big concern, and increasing them would only decrease battery life.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 04:39 Edited at: 25th Oct 2010 04:45
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Quote: "Can you use latest DX software? such as 10-11
"


If he's running Windows 7, then yes. The only limit would be hardware, Macs I know have DirectX10 cards built in, but I've not heard of DirectX 11 on there yet - not everybody's selling hardware with DX11 yet, but then, MS have shot themselves in the foot with both 10 and 11 because people still use WinXP. Sure 7 has won more people over, so I don't know if DirectX 11 will have more success. Games designed for Mac don't use DirectX, so they don't need to worry about DX compatibility so much, unless people want to dual boot and from what I understand, they've not had to worry about compatibility just yet.

Quote: "It's only natural that mac bashing occurs on a forum where the dominant product runs on DirectX, don't you think? xD"


And it's stupid too. The same people moan about how in your face, arrogant and annoying Mac fanboys are with their incessant opinions on how great 'Apple' is. Bashers are exactly the same but instead of it being about how 'great' Apple is, it's about how 'awful' it is. To be honest, I don't care what you think about Apple, I'd rather be able to talk about a product without somebody stepping in with the "lol mac sux" arguments or even 'mac is better' arguments.

But I can understand a person's reasons to: dislike a product, dislike Apple's PR/Marketing, dislike their fanboys, dislike Steve Jobs, dislike their business tactics and so on. But why is it so important that it spams every apple thread?

Not meant as a rant or anything. But, it is a tad annoying. I just don't understand how people can dedicate so much hate to one business, goodness, I'm sure there's far more important things in the world people should be worrying about instead of people buying from a business you don't like or people liking or discussing their products.

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Van B
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 13:56
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Agreed Seppuku, there are more irrelevant opinions in Apple threads than anywhere else.

Some people like Apple, some people don't - sensible people use the right tool for the job and avoid fanboy discussions . To be honest I used to be a bit anti-Apple, could never understand why they cost so much more - now that I own one I'm a bit ashamed of that.

This has a solid market in the professional sector, sales and marketting, where laptop bulk and weight is a concern. People here just don't get that, they never had to lug their laptop around several countries and meetings and hotel rooms and cars, planes, etc etc etc. Situations where spending an extra £400 for a lighter laptop is no concern at all, and having something sleek can go a long way. People just don't realise how massive the sales meeting market is, marketting is a necessary evil, and keeping them happy is more important than IT budget. For me, I don't see the point in spending £300 for a laptop then putting £500 worth of software on it - in business, every computer is an investment - and Apple hardware holds it's value amazingly well compared to PC hardware.

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Astro Chickster
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 15:55
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Quote: "Can you run OSX and OSX programs in XP, Vista or Win 7?"


What OSX applications would anyone want to use?
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 18:41 Edited at: 25th Oct 2010 18:42
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Quote: "This has a solid market in the professional sector, sales and marketting, where laptop bulk and weight is a concern."


Yes, I can definitely see the market there, I'm in a position where I'm about to get my career off the road, the two paths I've got in front of me are, PR/Marketing and Journalism (The latter is the most likely of the two, currently I'm just interested in admin/office experience ). And I can see the benefits of such a laptop. It would be a business laptop and nothing else.

When I was studying at University, I was happy to carry a 16 inch gaming laptop, sure it was heavy, particularly with my text books in my bag too, but a student budget prevents me from being fussy. Some classmates used netbooks and that was sensible enough, I just wasn't willing to pay money for another laptop (nor could I afford one ) Plus I needed the exercise. For convenience and better mobility, I'd take weight over anything. A netbook isn't necessarily going to deliver in the same way as an Air or even an Adamo and like you say, paying the extra £400 for a lighter laptop is no concern at all if you're using it for business.

Apple has appealed to a sensible market and it's obviously a worthwhile one if Dell was also willing to delve their nose into it.

It seems people moan when Apple comes up with new (or new-ish) ideas and innovations, they think they're terrible ideas, but as soon as somebody else approaches the same market with very similar products, they get praise and Apple products are looked upon with inferiority. My Samsung Tocco Lite is basically a watered down and cheap version of the iPhone, and the Android was just Google's answer to the iPhone OS. The new Samsung Galaxy Tablet is basically an iPad. The Dell Adamo is a MacBook Air. And so many MP3 players imitate iPods it's untrue (even flicking through the Argos catalog the other day, iPod touches and iPod minis, or at least Mp3 players copying them)

Naturally I don't mind businesses taking/sharing ideas because I think for every innovation acquired then technology progresses and it benefits us (the consumers) and it offers us more choice. After all, I love my Tocco Lite. It just seems, "just cos apple did it" it's a bad idea.

However:

Quote: "Agreed Seppuku, there are more irrelevant opinions in Apple threads than anywhere else."


It's good to hear I'm not losing my sanity. Well...the bad kind of losing.

I lost my sanity a long time ago.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 06:29
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Quote: "What OSX applications would anyone want to use?"

AdiumX


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
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Astro Chickster
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 15:21
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Quote: "AdiumX"


That just looks like a dumbed down featureless instant messenger to me.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Oct 2010 09:22
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Quite the opposite, it supports every IM network that libpurple does, has really cool skins, and way more intuitive and easier to use than trillian. Plus, it doesn't require an account with another company to control your IM accounts like many other multi-IM clients are doing.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~ Arthur C. Clarke
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