Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / check this out - future of computer graphics!!!

Author
Message
Inspire
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 12th Jan 2011 22:20
Link
If they were on top of a technology this big, they would actually be able to pay for a decent looking website.
Quote: "Unlimited Detail is believed by many to be the one of, and possibly the most significant piece of technology of the decade."


Quote from their site right there ^

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Hodgey
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posted: 12th Jan 2011 22:20
Link
Quote: "collision detection is just plain not feasible."


That's what I thought when I first saw it. But I love the concept of unlimited detail.

A clever person solves a problem, a wise person avoids it - Albert Einstein
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 12th Jan 2011 23:35
Link
I'm gonna say I think its not a hoax. There wouldn't be any lag if it was a pre-rendered shot, and the detail shown is a lot more than anything we see these days.

The guy did say it would take 16 months with funding to get a SDK out, and chances are they're low on funds

I'm willing it on

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Kevin Picone
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 00:22
Link
When you think of it, It's funny how inherently skeptical the programming community can be. Don't get me wrong, I'm having a hard time jumping on the bandwagon for this also. But....

It wasn't that long ago that idea of real time perspective correct texture mapping was all but fantasy in games. It's taken the better part of two decades to get a point where we start really generating real time imagery that are convincing.

Forgetting 'Unlimited Detail' for the moment.

If we cast our minds forward, then as the worlds we try simulate get infinitely larger, we're going to have to start letting go of this idea everything exists in memory in a finite state. This one to one relationship we have data, has no future.

So sooner or later we'll have to start thinking more procedurally about generating content. Games like ELITE were pioneering these type of techniques back when the 8bit world was in it's infancy. But anyway..


This may well turn out be a hoax, I dunno. Then again, maybe it's just some guy chasing a set of ideas down the rabbit hole to see how far it goes. If they can get it to work, then great.


Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
Back to top
Profile PM Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 00:38
Link
Well i certainly think this is possible, the problem is competition and corporate interests. the advancement and progress by the big companies like intel are slowed down on purpose so they can gain more money off slightly newer tech. If money wasnt the factor in this business, then we would be riding 32core cpus and have dedicated 100 gigs of video ram on our 16 core GPUs. and a thing like this unlimited detail, would be a standard in games exept with better looking graphics

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
PrimalBeans
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2010
Location: The sewer.... hunting alligatiors.
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 01:14
Link
hmmm...

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Eminent
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jul 2010
Location:
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 01:17
Link
I personally like to look of polygons much better. Much easier on the eyes. If they could however, make the system look easier on the eyes, I would gladly accept this.


Back to top
Profile PM
RedneckRambo
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Oct 2006
Location: Worst state in USA... California
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 02:26
Link
It's a remarkable concept, really.
Though I doubt it is something we will see go big anytime soon, it certainly shows what's to come in the future of gaming.

Signature's are stupid.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Quik
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jul 2008
Location: Equestria!
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 11:22
Link
this is old news isnt it?
it looks great, but i heard they were only selling it to nintendo? no?


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Back to top
Profile PM
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 17:13
Link
oh yeah, nothing like Nintendo to take advantage of cutting edge graphics

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Benjamin
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 20:06
Link
Someone PM'd me on YouTube with this:

Quote: "If you want to see this up close, go to here.

arius3d[dot]com/pointstream/

Click 3d image player and dld the plug in to play point cloud on your browser. To the side, some of those fossils, coins and what not are also real time point cloud demos.

Up close at a certain resolution, since everything is made of 3d floating pixels, it get pixilated in a sense that textures do on polygons. However, its fixable by simple scaling similar to that of a bit map or high poly. Its beta."


Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 20:12
Link
nothing like spam

Quote: "I personally like to look of polygons much better. Much easier on the eyes. If they could however, make the system look easier on the eyes, I would gladly accept this.
"


that's more to do with the art direction than the technology. just let loose some professionally game artists and it should be amazing

...assuming its real, which I'm willing to believe

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 20:14
Link
This is my cousin's project, it's not a hoax I've seen it running on his ancient laptop.


Everything worthwhile requires effort.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 13th Jan 2011 22:47
Link
is it defiantley the same one? its a closed project based in australia?

I'm willing to believe its real, either way, bruce dell is a genius programmer or a genius deceiver

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 00:49
Link
Im going with genius deceiver, at least until i see an example of extremely realistic and "Unlimited" graphics running on my comp with no lag.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
PrimalBeans
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Oct 2010
Location: The sewer.... hunting alligatiors.
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 03:02
Link
Im not going to say one way or another if its hoax or not because i just dont know. One thing that i do know is that alot of people get sceptical when what they think is the standard right way of doing things is outdone and becomes outdated. Times change, tech changes but not understanding. Its a scary thought to some people when they think they are working with "modern technology" to have the rug pulled out from underneath them and be at the back of the race again. One thing i dont think is going to happen anytime soon though is the standard method going away. This project has been in production for a while now, and has yet to replace the systems we use now. One thing this tech wont change is the success that the current system has entertaining and working for us. Despite the method you use to create a great game experience the true core of a great game is something that captivates the player and makes them want to play more: The experience. That isnt limited to the visuals, it encompasses the sound, control, story, and interaction in general and how it makes the player feel. I still play my snes n64 and a handful of dos games from time to time because they have something thats timeless: Fun. Sure you can look at Super Smash brothers and see that the textures are horrid, that the characters in most games for n64 arnt single meshes. (Most times they used multiple meshes to define limbs etc.) The games were fun, and thats the value thats the most important for success. This new tech wont mean crap if someone cant create a pleasant exp with it.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 06:28
Link
Good point man, if i dint have the thought of the rug being pulled out from under me, id be more open to this idea, but im one of those people that hates the thought of change. Even though things go good when change happens...

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Neuro Fuzzy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Jun 2007
Location:
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 08:29
Link
wait wait wait, OBese, tell more?

Back to top
Profile PM Email
TheComet
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2007
Location: I`m under ur bridge eating ur goatz.
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 12:54
Link
Obese's sarcasm is as big as his... obesity

Although he could be telling the truth this time, yes, tell us more obese

TheComet

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CoffeeGrunt
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2007
Location: England
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 21:52
Link
I think it looks worse than polygon objects, it's just too much detail and it's creating horribly noisy outlines.

Again there's collision issues, animation, modelling and texturing it, etc. I think that it's gone too far. It's like looking at the Mona Lisa, modern graphics has a clear, but still slightly flawed, print of it, whereas this goes for getting someone to paint it themselves and hire someone who can't brush properly.

I thought this looked terrible two years ago, it just looks worse now.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dark Java Dude 64
Community Leader
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Sep 2010
Location: Neither here nor there nor anywhere
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 22:48
Link
@coffegrunt You are dead on, man!

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 23:12 Edited at: 14th Jan 2011 23:15
Link
I think you're missing the point though. this is a demonstration of getting more detail into a scene, rather than what the detail is. The guy admitted himself the art shown in the demonstration was (in the gaming context) very bad.

You shouldn't judge this technology based on what the result is like yet. Judge it on the amount of detail being processed on a single core laptop without a graphics card

Ps, This Press statement may make it seem less sceptical, came out september

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Math89
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 23:21
Link
I don't see the problem with collisions... It is absolutely not related to the graphics, and all the collisions in video games are definitely not using the visual mesh.
Back to top
Profile PM
CoffeeGrunt
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2007
Location: England
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 23:23
Link
But collision meshes use polygons. I don't wanna think of tracing it per-voxel, per-poly can be tough enough.

I think polygons'll stay in for a good long time.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 14th Jan 2011 23:33
Link
although I'm sure there's a way of doing point collision, The polygons you see on screen aren't usually the ones used to calculate collision. A hybrid system of infinite point visuals and polygon calculated collision would allow good collision

besides, a polygon is just a group of pixels, why on earth would it be logical for them to be able to collide?

Quote: "I think polygons'll stay in for a good long time."

If we all have that attitude, yes. We really shouldn't be afraid of new technology just because its different, or because we're used to the old tech.

PS. isn't the banner contest finished?

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 15th Jan 2011 00:59
Link
Bruce Dell really is my cousin. Unfortunately I don't know much about how this works. I have an old demo video of the engine on a CD somewhere. I'll have to ask Bruce if it's okay to upload it here. He came up with this at least five years ago! It has taken a long time for it to get off the ground, it's thanks to youtube that it has gotten publicity.


Everything worthwhile requires effort.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Eminent
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Jul 2010
Location:
Posted: 15th Jan 2011 01:00
Link
LIEZZ!!!Ask him if he can upload a demo .


Back to top
Profile PM
Herakles
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Mar 2009
Location: Lost in my own head
Posted: 15th Jan 2011 05:32
Link
I'm sorry, but I just won't believe this is real until I have a demo running on my own computer right before my eyes. These videos just aren't going to cut it.

Back to top
Profile PM
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 15th Jan 2011 11:54
Link
so sceptic

He probably won't want a demo uploaded, he's purposely keeping it within the company for the time being

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CoffeeGrunt
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Oct 2007
Location: England
Posted: 15th Jan 2011 19:30
Link
Quote: "If we all have that attitude, yes. We really shouldn't be afraid of new technology just because its different, or because we're used to the old tech."


I'll give you that. But it's hard to tell if this is truly the next step, or another Betamax.

Quote: "PS. isn't the banner contest finished?"


For months. I just can't be bothered to sort a new signature at the moment, I only come no here in ten minute bursts nowadays.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Libervurto
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 15th Jan 2011 22:18
Link
I don't think we will see this in games until it is up to par with current graphics engines, there are still lots of bugs to work out and then there's the PC and Console people to get on board. It could still be a few years yet, but it is likely to be used in things like medical software and 3D scanning before that.


Everything worthwhile requires effort.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 16th Jan 2011 01:53
Link
their press release said that in about less than a year from now, they are gonna surprise everyone and will release something big- a demo with content not even shown in the videos. i bet they already have all the stuff like collission and animation done

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 16th Jan 2011 14:07
Link
yeah, its not due until january next year anyway

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 08:46
Link
The visual polygons are often used for collision detection. Often a seperate, hidden geometry is used for character collision, as it provides faster and cleaner collision with responses, less chance of getting stuck. But, do you really think that when you shoot a wall, and a decal appears, that it's using a hidden geometry?

We can all afford to be sceptical, because this is the second time this has been posted, with no obvious development progress. Show some evidence if you have it. There's more to our scepticism than it just being different, which we've already been through. Saying ''besides, a polygon is just a group of pixels, why on earth would it be logical for them to be able to collide?'' is a pretty weak rebuff, we know how videogames are made, we can see past the marketting spiel.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 11:59
Link
^ What Van said! I'm open to all possibilities. Though I would struggle to believe a small team had come up with a radically new concept that all the other genius minds in the industry overlooked, I would still be willing to believe it ...... if anything had come of it!

At this point it's no better than all these other hoax videos like turning urine into energy, nuclear fission using an AA battery and an old bra, or anti-gravity generators! People just don't WOW people with a video that promises to change the world then do nothing with it for 8 squillion years, unless it's a hoax.

Back to top
Profile PM
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 12:05 Edited at: 17th Jan 2011 12:08
Link
On this particular technology, I'll remain skeptical. I'd rather see it in action from users who have no connection with the company demonstrating it on low spec machines and of course, I'd want to see animations and physics on top.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Toasty Fresh
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jun 2007
Location: In my office, making poly-eating models.
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 13:55
Link
I'd just like a video with no annoying british guy and repetitive music
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Wolf
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Nov 2007
Location: Luxemburg
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 14:41
Link
Quote: "The result is a perfect pure bug free 3D engine that gives Unlimited Geometry running super fast, and it's all done in software."


Sorry, but that sounds a bit utopical to me.
I'm curious to see where this technique goes though.



-Wolf

God Helps the Beast in Me!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
charger bandit
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Nov 2009
Location: Slovenia
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 15:44
Link
I wanna go back to 1999,the low poly era.


Back to top
Profile PM Email
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 16:58
Link
Quote: "I wanna go back to 1999,the low poly era.
"


word

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Kevin Picone
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 17:02 Edited at: 17th Jan 2011 17:56
Link
Quote: "I don't think we will see this in games until it is up to par with current graphics engines, there are still lots of bugs to work out and then there's the PC and Console people to get on board. It could still be a few years yet, but it is likely to be used in things like medical software and 3D scanning before that.
"


Yeah, regardless of whether this or some other point cloud concept works or not, you've highlighted perhaps it's biggest hurdle. There's currently so much investment in texture mapping, the only way we'll see any change 'what so ever' would be if it's able to produce comparable image quality (to current methods) on current hardware.

It's like the ray tracing movement, there's lots of people working on real time tracers, but they're still a ways from matching anything we know as current game quality.


Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
Back to top
Profile PM Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 17:49
Link
Something's going to take out polys eventually. Polygon technology sucks. Hardcore.

Shaders suck.

The future is raytracing, plain and simple.

Unlimited detail may be a stepping stone in the right direction, as it's kind of similar, but the ultimate goal is raytraced graphics.

[center]
Join the TGC Group!
http://tehcodez.groups.live.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 17th Jan 2011 20:21
Link
Quote: "I'd just like a video with no annoying british guy and repetitive music"

his accent is just saucy, besides he's Australian (stereotypical American geography expertise? )

Whilst I agree some of the awesome games came from the low poly era, most gamers (and we are in no way most gamers) demand more Realistic graphics. and whether this is real or not, Bruce dell is right, polygons will never really work

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
David Gervais
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Sep 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posted: 18th Jan 2011 11:41
Link
Is it just me or did they 'fail' to show that their 'Unlimited Detail' can produce a flat surface. It's nice to add detail, but some things are flat, always will be and many objects have smooth or polished surfaces. their demo did not give me the impression that they could do that type of surface.

In my humble opinion, this might be a technology that will only be used to add detail where it is needed. I don't see see it standing on it's own.

It will be interesting to see where it ends up. It might even be a workable system for simply generating high detail textures on the fly. Or a new system for generating detailed ground surface. Allot of today's games have quite a few added polys to help give the ground more detail. if these polys could be used elsewhere then that would be a good thing.

That's what I think, in a nutshell.

Cheers!

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 18th Jan 2011 18:24
Link
It would be very interesting to see it working in hybrid, but it might work very well for flatter surfaces, I think the texture detail is stored in the point data too, so you'd have unlimited texture detail to work with, depending how good you are

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 18th Jan 2011 22:02
Link
Their demo showed that it can produce good looking flat surfaces. if anyone noticed in the video the water was flat and even had reflections. besides something really urks me about seeing point cloud hybrided with polygons. there is just that feeling of wrongdoing here for some reason. just feels wrong.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
thenerd
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2009
Location: Boston, USA
Posted: 18th Jan 2011 22:28
Link
Quote: "Their demo showed that it can produce good looking flat surfaces. if anyone noticed in the video the water was flat and even had reflections. besides something really urks me about seeing point cloud hybrided with polygons. there is just that feeling of wrongdoing here for some reason. just feels wrong."
There was no water, they said it was actually just had a copy of the entire world, flipped upside down...

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ocho Geek
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Aug 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted: 18th Jan 2011 22:28
Link
now that I think it through, it does seem stupid, since theres nothing stopping points being in a straight line

...should think things through

Ocho Geek - Pretending to be a useful contribution to the forums since 2005
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Travis Gatlin
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th May 2009
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posted: 19th Jan 2011 04:33
Link
I wonder how you would model this? They need some kind of converter because im sure as heck not gonna learn to model dot by dot ALL of the details of my models, if that is true (which i doubt) then forget this being in any kind of software let alone any kind of game, however, i am very interested in this technology and i would love to see this in modern games if all of the major bugs are worked out. i find it highly unlikely that we will be seeing anything like this anytime soon, and like mentioned before, i would really love to see this on my computer.

Your signature has been erased by a mod - Please reduce it to 600x120 maximum size
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PAGAN_old
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jan 2006
Location: Capital of the Evil Empire
Posted: 19th Jan 2011 11:34
Link
proboly a good way to medel stuff is 3d scans of physical objects. or they would proboly make their own thing for modelling

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-05-21 22:10:57
Your offset time is: 2025-05-21 22:10:57