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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [STICKY] U77 Public Release Candidate

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Santman
7
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Location: Inverness
Posted: 15th Apr 2012 02:40
Resourceful,

You're missing the big picture - try running ANY dbpro code on Vista - anything that causes that annoying ass admin rights permission box to appear deletes all your assets. Not a major major gaming issue, but I'm making a serious application right now and it'a a significant problem - any time the user does anything else that needs such a permission (which, BTW, includes things like Flash's auto updates - personal experiance!!!) you loose all loaded graphics, textures, models - the works!!!
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
14
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Joined: 24th Aug 2005
Location: Calgary,Alberta
Posted: 15th Apr 2012 02:49
Quote: "Quote: " or the open gl engine does this for you automaticaly"
this
"

from brendy boy....

well cheers to that as it was an excellent idea

gwheycs62egydws
10
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Location: The World
Posted: 15th Apr 2012 04:35
@Santman

I guess I got luckily

I went from a pc with windows xp to maxed out laptop with windows 7

vista is just anther version of windows me

I've had a couple of permission
problems but that's all been worked out

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 15th Apr 2012 05:49
Why not just switch to an abstraction like Ogre3D or Irrlicht if he's going to switch rendering APIs entirely? It'd take just as long and would give access to both APIs(in addition to increased platform independence).

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 14:34
@Dar13

Quote: "Why not just switch to an abstraction like Ogre3D or Irrlicht if he's going to switch rendering APIs entirely? It'd take just as long and would give access to both APIs(in addition to increased platform independence)."


in my case the learning all over again
I've been though the forum and collected a lot of code
and all the related software which was bought

so I am not wanting to start from the ground up

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 15th Apr 2012 16:28
Quote: "in my case the learning all over again"

If done correctly, the mechanics of the engine don't have to change. Certain aspects, like the switch from a left-handed coordinate system to a right-handed coordinate system, would change drastically but overall it wouldn't be too big a switch to invalidate all prior code.

JackDawson
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Posted: 15th Apr 2012 19:46 Edited at: 15th Apr 2012 19:48
For those who still like to program in BASIC. I found this site to be pretty neat. It uses OpenGL as its backing and you can even code in OpenGL. Its a simplistic IDE. Not much to this. But it does work, even in Windows 7.

http://www.basic4gl.net

I been playing with it for 2 months. And I gotta say, its taken everything I have thrown at it with no problems.

One thing to note.. when your in the IDE, it has a slight impact on your CPU usage. But from what I also am seeing is that is because its loading all the extensions of your GPU that it can find. That is typical behavior with any of the languages that talk to OpenGL I have seen.

But the compiled code is fast. At least on my machine it is. And I have had someone else who only had 2.1 of OpenGL test it and it worked on their computer as well. So yea.. I recommend BASIC4GL.

It has code-able extendable plugin capabilities too. So you can write your own plugins to allow additions to the IDE and your code to simplify your job.

NOTE UPDATE : IT has the ability too, to also allow you to embed files into it, or if you don't embed it, just link it or leave it in the same folder as your executable. So it has that ability for those who look for this feature. I know I do.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
baxslash
Valued Member
Bronze Codemaster
12
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Location: Duffield
Posted: 16th Apr 2012 10:56
That basic4gl looks impressive and relatively simple JD, I might have a play sometime

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2012 13:28
I know this thought is a bit late

with some additions that have come out with in the last few months
DBP is basically up to dx10 and dx11

DBP has been stable with very few problems

I'm not shire building a new DBPP (Dark Basic Pro Pro) would be a good thought
as there are so many options for it now

in the original DB it was only possible to have about 65559 objects
and that had to have any special effects included

now it's possible to have up to 1,000,000 and a bit more
depending on the system

but most game are about 10,000 objects at the most
and some things get taken out so other things can be dun

I do not have a problem paying some more to keep things
going

with all the DBP and all the add on's and other programs
I've spent about $2000 and the hard ware has been $4,000
with all the peripherals

as it sits now for me I can use some of my old hard ware as servers
for mass computing

if a total rewrite was dun then the old hard ware would be useless to me

windows has always been some what backwards compatible
so why not keep DBP the same ?

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 9th May 2012 12:48
I thought i joined this thread ages ago...

missed out on so much convo... will eventually read everything again one day soon...

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 9th May 2012 14:22
DBP has come a long way even in the last 3 years

a total rewrite for it's unnecessary

the hole point of dx11 was particles from what I have seen
the abilty to have lot of them on the screen at once

now that the hardware is much more than with DBP was
first conceived all is possible

imagination and creativity are the only things still in the works ;o)

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Santman
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Location: Inverness
Posted: 9th May 2012 20:37
Resourceful,

I'm not sure if you meant DX10 (the point of which is firmly lost in Microsoft jargon I think!), but DX11 is little to do with particles in the grand scheme. Go look up tesselation and ray cast lighting on youtube.

As for all being possible with DBPro - well I like the software and all, but steady on. It's a basic programming language - you're not gonna see Mass Effect 3 or Black Ops coded in it! Lol.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th May 2012 00:40
@Santman
ok dx 10 then

I have had the chance to play mass effect 3 on the pc and
from what I can tell with it would be possible to build
using DBP .. I have got ever additions that DBP has

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Santman
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Posted: 10th May 2012 00:49
In theory perhaps, with the real time occlusion culling recently released, it could push the graphics. IN THEORY, though I doubt it. But, there are lots of little things missing. It, like most modern games, background "streams" data so loading is fast and the memory can be emptied and filled constantly to allow high detailed graphics. Now, I wrote the basics of a multi-thread background loader and proved it could throw out 1GB plus per minute while running a 3D engine at over 50fps, but that's not enough - DBPro does not allow shared access to resources. So, where as a background loader could load models, graphics, sounds - anything - the main engine cannot share the memory (or at least not without some VERY sophisticated work arounds) and so the engine is fundamentally limited. Yes, you can load memblocks into a specific memory location, then grab a file from that specific memory location, and plug ins might help this process, but it's not fundamentally supported. True multi-threading is only possible by certain plugins, but that doesn't allow you much, if any, control over it. And, most of the code and libraries are now woefully OOD - I am doing a project with sprites, and all I have are two on screen, a background and a scrolling title. It's AMAZINGLY slow on any machine not heavily accelerated, such as a laptop. Scrolling one sprite up the screen over another - 8 fps on a laptop. That's just chronic. I got a plug in increased this by around...ooh....40%, but that's the issue: the libraries are so out of date, and modern games have had years of engine development that their code uses techniques not thought up or driver supported when DBPro was made, hence the (very useful - keep em coming) plugins.
EdzUp
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Posted: 10th May 2012 00:54
The only thing you have to worry about is DX changing along with windows, there is talk of it changing in Win8 and Win9 so this is something that everyone has to think about.

-EdzUp
Graveyard Dogs
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th May 2012 01:51
it's to be expected with what ever windows comes next there
will be things go deal with

they may even at one point do a total rebuild of dx
or drop it for there version of OpenGl or some thing similar they
come up with

windows has been a evolving beast
right from the days of "dos"

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Wyldhunt
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Location: The Dark Side
Posted: 10th May 2012 03:22
DX11 is the new Win7 DX.
It is not backwards compatible with DX9 at all. DX9 and DX11 can both run on the same machine at the same time. They are entirely different software.

That's why people want a new DX11 version of DBPro. Because DX9 has been replaced and is no longer supported.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th May 2012 04:17
I know I have dx9 - dx10 - dx11 installed now on win7 64bit

in the dx checking it shows up as dx 11

I know it would mean rebuilding any graphics addition that uses the dx set

native dx to DBP would be the first place

all the one others made would have to be rebuilt
perhaps some what or total rebuild

this would temporarily limit what could be dun with DBP
for either a few months or a few years untill some one builds
whats needed

even now the kaedroho who created "BlitzTerrain" is planing on
dropping dependency for DBP to use it

and from my point of view I would stop thinking of using DBP
with all what exists now

which would be too bad considering all the money I have spent so far
and all the time spent trying to learn how to use DBP and additions

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
MrValentine
AGK Backer
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 10th May 2012 04:29
To be honest I do not see DX being ditched any time soon...

Imagine all the many thousand game studios firing staff for not knowing how to code fully in OGL... I know a bit OTT but a valid point... So if MS was planning this for W9 they would see point to say it five or ten years in advance...

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th May 2012 04:42
ummm they would not fire them if they learn how to program 3d with opengl

it would be hard to replace them if they have a lot of people

as far as i can tell ms wants to keep it's user base
and they like selling bad windows ;oP

right now ms is more focused on making windows user friendly
and to cover more devices with it

user friendly humm ... more like ugly-er looking just like vista to win 7

I've managed to get my win7 to look and function with all I need it to look
like windows 98 se

the control panel has been one that i have not got looking the way
I need it to look

the dumb search thing is anther one I am still kick up the *****************

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Inflictive
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Posted: 13th May 2012 01:17
Wait... Which should I use - 7.7 or 7.62? 7.7 seems like it would be newer but on the main site it says 7.62 is newest...

"This plan is so perfect... it's retarded."
Brendy boy
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Location: Croatia
Posted: 13th May 2012 01:32
Quote: "Wait... Which should I use - 7.7 or 7.62? 7.7 "

which ever you want, U7.7 is a beta version and 6.2 in the newest non beta version

Santman
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Posted: 13th May 2012 01:35
@Inflictive

What are you using it for? The beta has some issues, not least of which are disappearing hardware shadows if you use them....though I believe that has been fixed. I don't use the beta for now, the newest official one seems pretty stable.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 13th May 2012 02:22
7.62 is a tiny fix to run "Dark Dynamix" since it's the new addition
to the dbp family and upgraded replacement for Dark Physic's

There are two free addition will not work DBP 7.7 -RC7 because they have
changed how DBP dose some math

DKAVM and DKShop which have to limbs manipulation of objects
so if thats not a big thing to you

go with DBP 7.7 -RC7 it has a new timer function command
and more compatibility with vista and win 7

but I can tell you 7.61 and 7.62 work fine in windows 7 ;o)

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Duffer
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Posted: 17th May 2012 12:21
@ Lee / TGC,

What happens now we've had the 7.62 release of DBPro to accomodate DarkDYNAMIX? Is there going to be a further upgrade release?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
ravensan
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Posted: 24th May 2012 09:19
I was having an issue with "paramater incorrect" when trying to
launch compiled 'stand alone' .exe files. It also responded slowly
when running with the debugger. After uninstalling and
reinstalling, then upgrading to 7.62 just minutes ago, everything
seems to be working with windows7 32-bit. I've got a ATI Radeon
video card though, so I don't know if that would make a difference
as I also updated the drivers for the video card about an hour
before intalling 7.62.

"imagination is more important than knowledge" -- Albert Einstien.
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 31st May 2012 09:42
I am confused by which latest release to make use of... I am happily using U77.RC7 but does it support DarkDynamix? I have Dark Occlusion working on it so?...

Todd Riggins
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Location: Texas, USA
Posted: 1st Jun 2012 02:18 Edited at: 1st Jun 2012 02:22
I had U77.RC7 installed and I wasn't able to register DarkDynamix. I had to install the DBPro upgrade V7.62 for it to work.

* One would think that it would work for a version that's greater then 7.62 also... but oh well

ExoDev.Com - A Game Development Tools Website! Featuring: XBOX360 CONTROLLER LIBRARY
MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 11:28
Shame I will have to wait for RC8 or something then... Before buying DDyn

Todd Riggins
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 13:22
The PROBLEM is they are dealing with multiple copies of the Dark Basic Source Code. They need to merge what ever they added to the 7.62 to the latest U77 stuff and keep it one and the same. To keep it simple and better organized. There's simply no reason to have a bunch of versions out there that do different stuff( ie: want to use DD use 7.62, want to use some bug fixes, use U77... ridiculous ).

Just for $#1T$ and giggles, After installing v7.62 to get DD registered and working, I just now tried re-installing U77 over v7.62 and yup, broke the DD liscense. Luckly, re-installed 7.62 again and DD worked again.

It's getting kind of messy...

ExoDev.Com - A Game Development Tools Website! Featuring: XBOX360 CONTROLLER LIBRARY
MrValentine
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 1st Jun 2012 13:36 Edited at: 1st Jun 2012 13:39
well I am glad I found out about the .62 .77 issues sooner then I would not have wasted £38 on DDyn as I have no issues with DP at present and I am just using a character controller at present...

looking forward to the next RC

EDIT

Thinking about I believe .62 is a stable release... but then why is DO registering on .77?

EDIT

I think the licencing system needs an overhaul...

Brendy boy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 16:13
use U77 plugins with 7.62 and you'll have best of the both worlds

MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 16:35
ive hardly ever used U62 so will feel a little awkward for me... any notable differences? [I like using the new editor]

[thank you Brendy boy]

Brendy boy
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 18:46
Quote: "ive hardly ever used U62 so will feel a little awkward for me... any notable differences? [I like using the new editor]"

i don't know. But you can also make a vice versa combination. U77 with 7.62 compiler

MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Jun 2012 19:10
thanks again Brendy... but I suppose as I am not in much of a hurry to buy DDyn I will wait for the next RC and hope for the best... if not by the time it comes out I might have started with GDK

Leonid
User Banned
Posted: 19th Jun 2012 07:24
This is a reprint from my thread. FILE OPERATIONS BYTE-TO-BYTE READ/WRITE IS TOO SLOWLY !

Slow file reading/writting in open to read/write case. Is it possible to load/write entire file into/from memblock (not in byte-to-byte mode)? File of memblock (if to see it into a text editor) contains first 4 bytes to set size of memblock and last byte to mark EndOfFile. Is it possible to make file of memblock without these 5 ugly bytes? Example. My program is reading excel table as txt file. If I use open to read/write command, it works too slowly. If I use read memblock from file, I has a problem with first 4 bytes and last 1 byte - file reading is wrong.
MMM
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 19:29
I am concerned that the problem I am having in this all too recent thread may be caused by u77. Specifically in regard to clipping object animations.

Can I get some deeper info on what exactly this update does to object animations?
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Jul 2012 21:36
Have you tried earlier upgrades? It only takes a few seconds to change the upgrade version if you've still got a copy of the old upgrade exe files - I keep several old versions handy for just this sort of thing.
MMM
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 05:23
Quote: "Have you tried earlier upgrades?"



Quote: "Major Fix
---------
Microsoft's latest Windows 7 SP1 all-in-one update package introduces a new security 'feature' which completely disables all DBP applications from running. Not the best move in the world, but don't let this lunacy stop you creating great applications. RC3 includes the fix which solves this problem."



I'll admit, I really don't want to do that. RC7 is as stable as I've had in years and I'm glad to have it but frankly I'd rather have a better explanation of the updated feature than risk destroying my executables again. The listed change about object animations in the OP doesn't actually make any sense anyway and really does need to be clarified.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 13:14
Yes, it's not an issue for me as I haven't got W7 yet. I tend to forget about that security thing.

Such is progress, I guess.

I agree about the clarification you require. Perhaps someone else can cast light on this?
Dar13
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Posted: 19th Jul 2012 17:26
Quote: "Perhaps someone else can cast light on this?"

I've pored through all the source code changes done, and the only time they refer to animations is when they added a new parameter to SetObjectFrame and keeping instanced objects animating even when the parent isn't visible. It could be that it's a side effect from other code that's been added. If you could downgrade to an earlier RC(RC3+) then perhaps we can isolate when the bug was introduced.

MMM
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Posted: 20th Jul 2012 06:54
Perhaps I could get a definitive list of exactly which previous u77 RCs are stable on Win7 and will not destroy my exes? After last time, I'm really not keen about downgrading unless I'm absolutely sure it is safe. I mean, the OP links have been de-linked for a reason, yes?
JackDawson
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Posted: 20th Jul 2012 08:23
I use the latest u77 version on Windows 7 x64 Bit and I have no problems. You just have to make sure that if you add plugins or you upgrade, you MUST run DBP in Admin mode. Then you can shut it down and run it normally. Normally meaning you do not have to run in admin mode after that. But again, if you upgrade or change / add plugins, you MUST run in admin mode that first time after the change. Then shut down DBP and start up like normal. I never once have had to shut off the security. Windows 7 works fine with DBP. You just have to know what your doing.
Dar13
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Posted: 20th Jul 2012 20:19
Quote: "Perhaps I could get a definitive list of exactly which previous u77 RCs are stable on Win7 and will not destroy my exes? After last time, I'm really not keen about downgrading unless I'm absolutely sure it is safe. I mean, the OP links have been de-linked for a reason, yes?"

None of them destroy your exes, the exes just don't run. RC3 is the Release Candidate that fixes that issue.

MMM
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Posted: 21st Jul 2012 08:12
Quote: "Windows 7 works fine with DBP. You just have to know what your doing."


I imagine then you haven't actually experienced the exe issue. It was a big thing for a lot of people. Running in admin mode certainly did not prevent it. Nor was it a matter of switching "security" on or off. For that matter, I've never had to do any of the other things you mentioned. Plugins/upgrades always have and continue to run fine for me without admin permissions - first go, or not. Could that just be a user-account setup thing?

Quote: "None of them destroy your exes, the exes just don't run."


My experience is that changing or upgrading DBPro doesn't restore functionality to the affected executables. Once an exe is affected, it needs to be rebuilt to run on that system, period. That's close enough to my definition of being destroyed. It's only an ongoing issue for me because some of my older DBPro tools use dlls I no longer have installed with the engine (eg. old sparkys) so it takes some faffing about to go back to the old setup and recompile.

However, you mentioned some changes you found in the source code. I cannot think of any reason those changes would affect the EA plugin. And so...

Quote: "RC3 is the Release Candidate that fixes that issue."


I have downloaded that version, installed it, run the official EA examples and found the same problem I encountered in the thread I linked ealier. I guess that means it's time to contact the author of the plugin. Last I heared, he was on a "break" unless he's come back recently.

Thanks for your help guys. I appreciate it. Spares me a lot of agony chasing red herrings. If I solve the problem I'll update the linked thread.
JackDawson
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Posted: 21st Jul 2012 15:15 Edited at: 21st Jul 2012 22:50
Quote: "Could that just be a user-account setup thing?"


Actually this is more related to x64 Users. The permissions issue stems from the security of the Program Files folder vs the Program Files ( x86 ) folder. The difference is interesting on how Windows reads them both. You would think it would be the same, but its not. the ( x86 ) folder is strictly for 32-Bit. Which is where the DB Pro needs to be installed. DarkShaders If I remember right, installs into Program Files, and was not setup for x64 Bit windows. So its the only one you have to manually tell it where to install. The plugins / scripts loading for DB Pro that it does AFTER an install of plugins, needs to have permissions to write in that folder. If its not in Admin Mode, then it won't have permission and the EXE will constantly try to load. What happens is you have thousands, and I DO mean thousands, of versions of DBP trying to load into memory if you do not give it permission. Because its trying to load each one separately. It sounds weird, but I have accidentally installed and forgot admin before and it would crash HEAVY. So once I figured out the Admin trick, I have not had not one problem since.
Dar13
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Posted: 21st Jul 2012 17:08
Quote: "My experience is that changing or upgrading DBPro doesn't restore functionality to the affected executables. Once an exe is affected, it needs to be rebuilt to run on that system, period."

That's true of any development system. It doesn't magically upgrade existing executables, the updater nor DBPro has the correct context to do that. And yes I've been afflicted by the executable issue, that's part of the reason why I'm waiting for this year-old release candidate to be released with full plugin support(Dark Dynamix and some others are not supported).

Quote: "I have downloaded that version, installed it, run the official EA examples and found the same problem I encountered in the thread I linked ealier."

Definitely sounds like a plugin issue now.

Juggernaut
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Posted: 19th Aug 2012 01:33
When is U77 going to be released officially ? Any body knows anything about a tentative release date ?
DarthBasicVader
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Posted: 20th Aug 2012 10:50
No news about it.

Riccardo
Juggernaut
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Posted: 20th Aug 2012 17:06
Which means we will in a pudding all along whether to use U7.62 to use Dark Dynamix or go for RC U77 for less bugs !

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