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Geek Culture / about fuel injection in ur car..

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Sergey K
21
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Joined: 4th Jan 2004
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Posted: 6th Feb 2011 20:01 Edited at: 6th Feb 2011 20:02
hey guys, im building now water fuel in my car, basicly its a devices that converts water into hydrogen wich injects into a fuel system via some filters and stuff..
well i dont gonna explaio exactly what i do here, cuz its really nasty and hard..

anyways my question is for ppl who understand a little bit in engine fuel injectors..
if i inject air with preassure in between air filter and the engine it self, does it means that more air will enter to engine and less fuel?

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 7th Feb 2011 00:38
Inject air inbetween the air filter and engine would only shove more air into the intake but bypassing the filter. Using pressurized air to force more in is like using a supercharger, but without the safety of the filter. You would still need to regulate the fuel based on the amount of air so as to not burn too rich or too lean.

"Only the educated are free" ~Epictetus
"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ~Einstein
Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 7th Feb 2011 16:24
Turbochargers and superchargers ftw! I don't understand Mr 400BHP 6 litre, when a 2 litre twin turbocharged engine can have more BHP. Surely the only correct answer is a 6 litre twin turbocharged engine? All sports cars should have TURBOS!

.... mini-rant. Slightly off-topic.

Sergey K
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 20:58
@phaelax. hey dude, no see for long time

is there a way to make it autimatic control over the fuel injection? so more presured air will enter, and automaticly the fuel injection will be lower?

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crispex
17
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Posted: 7th Feb 2011 22:56
Honestly, I advise against ALL car modification, except for physical details (the legal ones). My father has worked with cars for the last 30 years, and works for Ford Motor Company, and anything that modifies the intake / output of a care SEVERELY limits its life, not to mention voids warranty. If it's a junker, then sure, but I wouldn't go messing around with cars less than 10 years old.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
Sergey K
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Posted: 8th Feb 2011 18:52
@ crispex thanks for the advice. but im not trying to make it on a peugeot 106 1994 wich is kinda junky car.. so once it gonna work, we will install it on my own car Suzuki Baleno 1997.
i already found a safe kit that i can use for the own car:
http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/hho_%20generator_771.php its very safe kit, lots of explainings, warrenty and online support

here in israel we pay about 2.5$ for 1 litter of fuel. wich is very expencive. and not all the ppl can keep up with that kind of price.

how much do YOU guys pay for your fuel?

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KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 8th Feb 2011 19:01
I pay about $3.40 right now, per gallon. So you'd be paying around $10 a gallon right now.....that's expensive!

-Keith

Sergey K
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Posted: 8th Feb 2011 19:05
Quote: "I pay about $3.40 right now, per gallon. So you'd be paying around $10 a gallon right now.....that's expensive!
"

see? thats why i need a "dirty" method to run a car. other wise u cant live and success in israel at all

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 9th Feb 2011 02:19
Quote: "anything that modifies the intake / output of a care SEVERELY limits its life, not to mention voids warranty"

Well it would put more stress on the engine, but hopefully people who tune the power in their vehicles do so with supporting mods to handle it. For instance, my grand prix had stonger pistons than a normal one would have. But most ppl who supe up their car usually is way past a warranty anyway.

Quote: "I don't understand Mr 400BHP 6 litre, when a 2 litre twin turbocharged engine can have more BHP. Surely the only correct answer is a 6 litre twin turbocharged engine?"

Mine outputs 400hp with only 4.2L But why do ppl use bigger engines in production cars? I bet i get better gas mileage than someone who manages 400hp out of a 2L 4 banger, which is only 24mpg highway.
Basically, smaller engines are capable of high output but you have to consider emissions and street regulations.

Speaking of gas prices, I just saw it for $7.50 a gallon, but that was for 110 octane. I was kind of surprised to see that at the pump.

Quote: "is there a way to make it autimatic control over the fuel injection? so more presured air will enter, and automaticly the fuel injection will be lower?"

Well you would actually increase the fuel if you're forcing more air, there's a certain percentage mixture you want to maintain, and I couldn't tell you what that should be. Most of that stuff is regulated through computers these days. Did a quick google search and it says the mixture is 14.7:1. Too little air, you're burning rich, too much then the fuel burns lean. With the wrong ratio you could damage the engine. The O2 sensor detects this and tells the engine whether it needs more fuel or air to meet the preferred ratio.

I couldn't really say if your car would just automatically adjust the fuel when it detects the increased air you're forcing or what. I know a little about cars but not enough. My guess is you'd probably need the ECU reprogrammed.

I feel like I'm rambling. Long story short, more air equals more fuel, not less. DigDug would be the guy to ask about cars.

"Only the educated are free" ~Epictetus
"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ~Einstein
That Guy John
15
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Location: United States
Posted: 9th Feb 2011 02:29
Sergey,

(Ive been a mechanic by hobby since I was about 14 , I am 30 now, and was a mechanic in the military for 8 years)

As far as forcing compressed air into the intake after the filter on a fuel injected car:
It depends really, there are a number of factors to consider. Would this air be introduced before or after the Mass Air Flow sensor? If forced before the MAF, it will read the additional air and compensate with more fuel. If it is forced after the MAF, you will likely run lean because the MAF won't detect it. That is of course unless the O2 sensors catch the modification in the mixture after the burn, then it may compensate anyways. (mixture mapping is different with nearly all fuel injection so this depends on the tuning of the computer)
Also, pressurized air has a higher temp than free flowing air, this is another hit on performance and gas mileage. So it would kind of be counter-productive. Unless of course you are running some sort of cooling system for the air being induced into the system, but again, this home fab cooling would have a draw down on performance then be counter productive again.
When you are talking about forced induction, really, a per/ vehicle spec kit from a manufacture is the best solution. The money and engineering into these kits is what give them the efficiency.

On the HHO bit, let me know how that turns out, Ive always been interested, but through my own search have seen that that too can be counter productive on the wallet. On top of that, I have seen demos of some of those kits where yes, they produce HHO but not nearly enough to really make a difference.
The one that I have see online that appeared to be legit and worked just as well as putting gasoline or diesel in your car.. It was on a dodge pickup and the HHO generator took up nearly the entire bed of the truck.

Then again upon further inspection of that link you sent..
Good luck with your affiliate marketing efforts.
Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 9th Feb 2011 22:26 Edited at: 9th Feb 2011 22:27
Quote: "how much do YOU guys pay for your fuel?"

about 1,7 hers in sweden i think... per litre


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
Lemonade
16
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 22:31
$3.22 and rising.

crispex
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Joined: 22nd Jun 2007
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Posted: 9th Feb 2011 23:21
Gas is on average around $3.37 - $3.40 in PA. This always happens during the winter months, so it'll go down once winter is over.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
Phaelax
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 14th Feb 2011 23:21
It's been hovering between $3-$3.19, but add an extra 22 cents for me cause I require premium. There's a station near my aunt's that sells racing fuel, 110 octane for about $7.30/gal.

I can second the gas in PA. Drove out there last month and soon as I crossed out of Ohio, gas jumped 30 cents. I was not happy.

"Only the educated are free" ~Epictetus
"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ~Einstein
Sergey K
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Joined: 4th Jan 2004
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Posted: 25th Feb 2011 14:48
thanks for the info guys, as i see the fuel cost about 3-4$ per gallon for all of u. but mine is 10$ even more. for 1 gallon ;(
thats why im working on my hho injection

and @That Guy John, seems like u know a lot about air (16 years in a busnies.. lol) is there a way to contact cuz i have some questions for you.

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