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Geek Culture / This is completley insane but really epic! russian battletractors from the war

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 13:45 Edited at: 11th Feb 2011 15:04
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I will never stop being amazed with russian ingenuety during the war. In 1941 the city of Odessa lacked tanks to defend Odessa which was under siege by the Romanian army allied to the nazis.

So what did they do?...

They turned the local tractor factory into a tank factory... This tank was eventually named NI-1.
The 2 lead ingeers of the tractor factory- P. K. Romanov and U. G. Kogan. they took a regular farming tractor on treads, and welded a huge metal shell on it. The metal scrapped from the citys shipyard repair facility, They even managed to install rotating towers (like the real tanks). Some of them were welded from scraps of metal, others were taken off destroyed tanks.

These monsters were equipped with light canons from other tanks, and mashine guns. There werent enough working canons to equip all the NI-1, so some of them had FAKE CANONS! intalled. Others that had short canons, purposley extended the length of the barrel to make them look more serios.

It was obvious these totally improvised tanks or tank-like vehicles were a complete joke compared to the real ones. So what did they do? they gambled on the psycological effect of these tanks. The giant metal boxes with guns were ugly and terrifying looking. It looked like a tall, large box of metal on tracks with a tower/canon and some mashine guns.

Nobody ever witnessed anything resembling the tractortank (the first german tank from WWI looked like a bigger version of this Russian armored tractor, but it was complete junk so it wasnt used much so noone really even knew about it). So on the NIGHT of 20th september 1941, when Odessa was sieged by Romanian armies, these tanks were sent to battle without any artillery support!! ( they had about 60 of these frankenstiens lol) They had them equipped with blinding projectors, flashing lights, loud sirens and on top of all, the tractor engines of these tractors were REALLY LOUD and scary sounding (imagine how terrifying it would be to hear all 60 engines of these tanks plus the scream of all the sirens on full blast on each of them).

The enemy was completley horrified! When in the middle of the night a bunch of large scappy looking metal boxes.... with tons of guns,.... loud as hell.... Siren noises coming out of every one of them. and on top of everything they were blinded by the projectors.... infact they couldnt even see what was coming at them because of the bright projectors. All they saw was something big loud and scary with a roaring engine of doom and and siren noise blasting everywhere and getting closer.

Another thing i would like to mention is there wasnt enough ammo for everyone, so some tanks that had artillery guns installed, were armed with wooden dummy shells that were painted to look like real shells. Even tho they didnt really do anything other than get launced into the enemy trenches.

When some commander in a trench is freaking out because he has no idea what is that hell spawn thing with 3 mashineguns + a canon he never seen in his life moving at him,... when he sees one of these launch an artillery shell at his trench, he dosent know its a dummy, but when he sees a shell flying in his direction, he will definatley go in his pants if he didnt yet. (i forgot to mention they tried to stick as many small caliber mashine guns on the tank to make up for the lack of larger canons AND to make the tank look cool, more awesome and intimidating. Same goes for when the tank turns its fake canon at the enemy, They dont know that its fake and i doubt they wanna find out. And the insane loud roar all over the place wont let them think clearly so the only thing left is to run. Anyway, the enemy was so scared of them, they retreated and fled.

And so the siege of Odessa was broken. It was only after this battle this thing was given a name NI-1 (НИ-1 rus) the model name is an abbreviation of a russian phrase, which translates to English as For Scare or For scaring (rus НИ-1= На Испуг ), as this tank was meant to scare and horrify the enemy. Some of the nicknames for this tank was Tractortank and armored tractor (the name tanktractor already sounds pretty scary and if you say that name in russian -Танкотрактор just sounds even more horrifying)

I heard of similar stories about warfare scare tactics and improvised weapons/vehicles before but nothing nearly as ridiculous and insane as the tanktracror. Its amazing how the psycological effect of these scary things was more effective than firepower (or even the lack of firepower lol)

I have some resourses here where i got the info from, but its all in Russian (cant find any English articles on this tank). It also has a few photos of them.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%98-1

(this link above dosent work here because it has cyrillic letters in the URL that dont show up here but just copy and paste it into the adress bar, it has some really neat black and white photos of the tractortanks from that time as well as a schematic of the thing. Kinda cool)
http://hrenovina.net/1338
http://warcyb.org.ru/news/tank_ni_1/2010-05-15-21

BTW Odessa even put up a monument to the tractortank!


When i read this, i was laughing so hard, yet i just thought this was so amazing i had to share it with you guys!

sorry for the long post...

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lazerus
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 14:43
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I love stories like this, The best ive seen is a entire wooden tank batallion tricking enemy air recons into thinking the attack was coming from the back, so while all the artillery and armnaments where pilled over there. The full invasion force walked through the front door with minimum resistance. I cant remember who it was, but i know they surrended thinking there was two huge invasion forces, one of which was inside the city.

While im here Gengis khan did the same with the seige at china. He told his soldiers to light three fires per man in the night. Imagine seeing all of the fires with what normaly would be 2-4 people around them.


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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 11th Feb 2011 16:32
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@lazerus
Gengis khan also had another trick, he put these like light brooms onto all of his horses tails. so that when they ran it pulled up far more dust and made it look like there were more of them

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flashing snall
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 16:29
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There was a British General who was a magician and built an entire fake port town so that the Germans bombed the wrong port and allowed the real port to stay open.
I forget all the details, but my military history teacher was telling me about a few days ago.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 16:48
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there is a similar story that happened much later when the soviets started moving to berlin with a large army. They needed to cross a river on the other side of which was full of german troops. They waited till night, equipping every truck, tank and vehicle with a projector (not the tractortank headlights but actual huge military projectors), When it was dark, they turned on every single engine/siren and any big noise manking thing they had. instead of some 60 tractors, this time it was an entire army with hundreds if not thousands of vehicles. The germans on the other side of the river got freaked out of course. when all the vehicles reached the river, they turned on all of their projectors, all several hundred of them completley handicapping them from seeing what was coming at them. While the germans cant see a thing what was going on on the russian side, the russians could see the other side clear as daylight. and sice they had plenty of tanks guns and artilleryit was an easy victory. After the russians started moving across the river, germans couldnt even see or hear the shots behind all the noise. I am not sure about this but they say that the german forces on the other side of the river greatly outnumbered the russians during this battle.

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flashing snall
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 16:51
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Nice, and then D-day was only possible because of all the deception that allowed the allies to land without the germans knowing WHERE they were going to land. They set up fake inflatable armies and stuff.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 12th Feb 2011 18:19 Edited at: 12th Feb 2011 18:19
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Yeah, I've heard similar stories, pretty funny and smart. It seems that fake tanks were used a lot in World War 2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_tank

I was surprised to read that they still have fake tanks, and they sound very impressive at only $3300 and 50 pounds.
Quote: "The United States Army has developed a modern dummy tank. It imitates the M1 Abrams tank not only in appearance, but also in its heat signature, in order to appear real to infrared detectors. One of these decoys can take fire from the enemy and still appear to be operational, thus delaying the enemy by as much as an hour, as they are forced to destroy the decoy. These M1 decoys cost only $3,300,[12] compared to $4.35 million for a real M1.[13] The decoy is also practical: when disassembled, it weighs only fifty pounds, and is roughly the same size as a duffel bag. Its generator—about the size of a 12 inch television—facilitates inflation, so that two people can erect the decoy in a few minutes.[12] Occasionally, real tanks carry a dummy on board, to deploy when needed.[14]"



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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 06:23
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I have a friend who is really into soviet history and whe war and the technoligy from that time (he told me to look up the tractortanks)

I like that he isnt biast toward anything, he always looks for reasons why certain things happend instead of being biast like most people like saying something like "oh he was just a bloodthirsty racist with no respect for human life"

he told me a few more stories.

These few are about Stalins right hand man Lavrenti Plvlovich Beria (bald guy with glasses) Now first of all everyone who claims that Stalin is a bloodthirsty psycho:... compared to Beria he is an angel. (the numbers of so called Stalins repression victims are greatly exagerated. To that number are added fractions of WWII deaths, the deaths from the drought in the 30s and the repressions and killings that are authorised by Beria who did most of the repressions. All this is pinned to Stalin.) Like i said along with many misleading info, in reality i can speculate that less than half of the 20 million of "Stalins repressions" Stalin is actually responsible for. One famous dissident tried to pin 60 million to his repressions.

To get the point across about how bloodthirsty Beria was, a known fact that beria raped ablut 200 women in his lifetime even many of them were acresses and famous women (there was one actress that even jumped out the window when Beria came to her house)

People say that even stalin himself was afraid of Beria. and finally there is a conspiracy theory that Beria even poisoned Stalin but thats a different story and i am not gonna get into that.

Despite of Berias unspeakable crimes. During the war. He was a great orgoniser and was unafraid to take risks. Some problems USSR had would usually take weeks and months to solve by scientist. Even tho beria didnt make the solutions to these problems he knew how to quickly find the right people and orgonise hardly possible things to make them happen in days. I cant say it was russian ingenuety because Beria (just like Stalin) wasnt russian. Beria was Hungarian. (Stalin was georgian).

Now that we got history lesson over with ill get to the problem.

In the middle of the war germans occupied part of the Caspian region where offshore oil drills got much of the needed oil. The town from which the oil was loaded on trains and sent off to be refined was occupied. There was a shortage of oil. a quick solution was needed. Beria knew the right people and how to make things happen. Plus being the intimidating bloodthirsty person he was. It was better to try to make the things happen no matter what the risk was.
The solution Berias friend suggestested was this: Oil is lither than water it floats right? so why not load the oil in containers, and use a small tugboat, to pull a sea train of oil containers across the sea to an unoccupied region where they could load it up on the train to get it to the refinery?

Despite of how ridiculous idea was Beria made this happen!

Pretty cool huh?

Now another story about Beria.

When the war began. Beria ordered to have people dig Insanley huge pits in siberia, and lots of them. people didnt know why but tthey didnt ask this guy any questions.
So near the middle of the war. when USSR was realy running short on oil. and started to panic, Beria pinted out that we have tons of huge pits in siberia where he buried hundreds of tons of oil. Turns out after the pits were finished, Beria just orderes to have all the oil refinaries to send their oil to the pits and just pour the oil there! so when oil was short during the war, They had plenty of reserves left.

Soring oil in such conditions, is bad for it, (the oil somehow crystolises where its toching the ground. so all the srystolised oil in the pit made a good container for the oil. 15% of oil in those pits of course went bad, but most of it was good enough to be used. Another ridiculous idea that saved USSR a lot of troble during the war.

For people who like these kinds of stories should enjoy what i wrote. Idk if you guys even care to read my long posts but i am facinated by russian/ soviet history and i enjoy sharing what i learn. (i used to hate history in general in school, but after i moved to the states, i realised that american 300yo history is boaring compared to russian 1100 yo history (Moscow itself is almost about 865 years old)

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 12:16
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Quote: "The solution Berias friend suggestested was this: Oil is lither than water it floats right? so why not load the oil in containers, and use a small tugboat, to pull a sea train of oil containers across the sea to an unoccupied region where they could load it up on the train to get it to the refinery?"


Must admit, that man is a genius.

Another thing is that Hitler was good to a point, I know that's as inflammatory a post as you can get, but he rebuilt a poverty-stricken country back up to a rich, industrial powerhouse. If he hadn't initiated the Holocaust, I'd have alot of respect for him. Despite his intentions he was an excellent leader, although severely disturbed.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 13:26
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Quote: " I know that's as inflammatory a post as you can get, but he rebuilt a poverty-stricken country back up to a rich, industrial powerhouse. If he hadn't initiated the Holocaust, I'd have alot of respect for him. Despite his intentions he was an excellent leader, although severely disturbed.
"


i agree actually i dont think this post should be considered a flame because its an unbiast (sp?) fact. i can say the same about Stalin they bothe did the same thing, with slightly different motives yet, Stalin (despite of desruction of his cult) remains as a hero figure in the majority of the modern population. Even americans dont speak that badly about Stalin even tho he killed more people than hitler. yet hitler remains the biggest villan ever.

Recentley there was a nationwide questionare of the person who should symbolise russia (called- face of russia) THis became very controvercial when it was obvious that stalin is gonna get the most votes. so the government thats to this day is trying to eliminate stalins cult of personality (they were trying since the 60s), on purpose pushed him back to the second place and had the first place given Alexander Nevsky who defeated german crusaiders on a lake some 600 years ago or something. Its so lauhable that he got the first place since that happened so long ago, people look at Nevsky as a fairy tale hero. it was done just to push back stalin to 2nd place, they didnt want to push him further because people are gonna get outraged especially since everyone knows that questionare was faked. Stalins cult is so large that last year they sold custom cellphones with his image engraved in the back they were very popular.

But speaking of hitler, ironically, the neonazi movement is the worlds biggest in russia now- the country that suffered the most from him.

also my grandpa was in the war, and he never spoke about hitler with prejudice or bad tone, he only told facts and respected him for his whole military discipline being the same kind of person. A friend of mine is really against the whole idea of nazism, but even he recognises hitler for his effective military tactics and he is a big fan of german military tech from that era and i see why, It was the worlds most high tech military equipment. much of the technological advancements of ussr and US after the war is from studying german technology and their research.

this is just for laughs but my friend asked me today what would it be like if russians really did ally with germany. The german top noch high tech technology combines with russian... resorecefulness and ability to figure out ways out of tight situations, (and ability to make tractortanks lol) this RussoGerman alliance would be an unstopabble force!

that above was just for laughs- fiction dont take it seriosly lol

btw a note, this is a really interesting discussion, i dont want to lock this, history from that time period facinates me and i dont want to turn this into a political thing. Facts are ok because they are facts and you cant chage them. even if the official facts are speculated to be false (there is a ton of that from that ime period btw, lots of false info surrounding the whole ww2 era)

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David R
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 13:37
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Most Russian tanks are in fact based upon tractors / tractor components

One of the reasons the T-34 is highly regarded is because of how simple it was to maintain - a property partially due to the components being used (simple but powerful tractor engines etc. versus more sophisticated but more complex engines)

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 14:00
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To be honest by D-day Germans were rolling out the first generation of fighter jets, unmanned rockets, assault rifles and other powerful weapons. It's purely because they spread themselves too thin by attacking Britain and Russia, underestimated Russia's potential, and we attacked in full force from the other side.

If we didn't have a sea in the way preventing lank movements, quite simply we'd have lost the war.

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Indicium
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 21:42
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Quote: "If we didn't have a sea in the way preventing lank movements, quite simply we'd have lost the war."


Lucky us for setting up camp on an island then :p

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Feb 2011 23:07
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They'd have never taken Scotland of course. Just built another wall over it.

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Design Runner
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 01:56
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Haha CofeeGrunt.
Quote: "To be honest by D-day Germans were rolling out the first generation of fighter jets"

That is not true, though the rest of it was. The jet engine was developed at the same time by both a german and I believe it was either a british or russian scientist, completely separately. I believe it was between 2 and 5 years after the war when both tried to patent the invention and a huge commotion was made over it. Eventually it was decided that they both had developed the engine separately, due to small differences in the mechanics of each engine. I believe the non-german engine is the one that most modern engines evolved from. Please correct me on that last part if I am wrong. And please post who the two scientists were and where they were from.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 14th Feb 2011 08:50
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well most russian tanks werent made of actual tractors, like the NI-1. many tractor factories switched to tank building mode., thye built real tanks. The NI-1 wasnt a tank it was an armored tractor with a gun. Russia had way more tanks other than T34, KV series heavy tanks BT series light tanks (those are from before the war),
A-20 light tank, (i think its part of the BT series) there were also a bunch of them before T-34 like T-28 and others. There had very good antitank ... tanks (they are like heavy armored tanks with a really powerful gun that only faced in one direction. (forgot their series name) but they were like impossible to penetrate. i cant remember any other tanks they had, but the T-34 was a very famous one. Infact the germans before they developed an effective tank against T-34 they tried to capture the T-34 tanks. some were repainted to german colors, others were left as they were and germans used these to sneak attack on the russian tanks. russians caught on and started painting their T-34s to german colors to trow off the germans. Both sides ended up using the T-34. As the T34s were massivley produced, not all tanks had the nececeary tank stuff like radio equipment and it was generally cramped inside. What germans did with the captured T-34s is they had them equipped with radio stuff, and they modifiedthe tower sometimes to make it less cramped, installed different guns on it and basically modified it to their liking. One of the thing i noticed is the development of new tanks and upgrades for them was always driven by the developments of the opponents. one side makes a powerful tank, other side puts more armor on theirs, in return the other side, tries to make the tanks faster. the T34 went trough like 5 or 6 versions before it beame the famous t34by the end of the war, germans had one shot RPG like things that gave tanks hell. even if the rusian tank is heavy armored, the shot could still distort the air pressure inside a tank (not sure how that works but its someone told me.) and that change in air pressure screwed up the tank operators really bad. they started leaving the hatches open to counter the effects of the weapon, and keep the prssure normal. then germans made another shell that someohow on impact created a heated beam that burned trough any armour. while i am not sure how this did significant damage unless it hit a piece of equipment, what russians immediatley did is wrap their tanks with chainlink fences that way the shell would get repelled a little by the layers of chainlink fence and the beam wouldnt be close enough to the armour to burn a hole since it looses focus. thats how it was most of the war, one makes effective weapon, the other makes a way to to make it obsolete.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 13:30
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Quote: "That is not true, though the rest of it was."


Really? It'd always heard they were releasing new Doodlebugs with jet engines rather than rockets so they could get further inland?

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 22:53
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it is true that germany was very technlologically advanced for their time, way ahead of everyone else

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 20th Feb 2011 19:27
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Quote: "rus НИ-1= На Испуг "

When i Tried translating this it said
rus НИ-1= The Funk


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2011 21:01
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whaaaAAA???? lol

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 7th Mar 2011 02:42
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Try it!
Here's a screenshot lol

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 7th Mar 2011 05:09
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i dont see how thats even closley resembling the meaning

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 03:15
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me either, i guess it means it's funky when you see it lol

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Indicium
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 02:30
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Or the more pressing issue... What browser was that?!
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 12th Mar 2011 19:19
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why thats internet explorer of course!

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Travis Gatlin
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Precisely, I used Chrome for a while, it got too slow.

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PAGAN_old
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apperently chrome licence agreement says any info you put trough chrome is automatically owned by google.

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Travis Gatlin
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LOL, dang, glad i never put any personal info on the internet! i'd be owned by google!

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puppyofkosh
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Quote: "apperently chrome licence agreement says any info you put trough chrome is automatically owned by google.
"


I think it used to say that, but was then removed.
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PAGAN_old
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thats good. Yeah i heard there were lawsuits over this thing

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Design Runner
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 04:19
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My bad.. the jet engine (though the story was true) was developed during ww2. The Germans were the first to put it into a plane though, and used it for a few months before the end of the war. I have my moments

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 15th Mar 2011 04:40
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modern world owes a lot to the nazi era technology. its unbelievable how fast war drives technological progress.

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PrimalBeans
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Funny thing is most ppl dont see technological progress as bad... a matter of opinion but technology has given us as much grief as it has good... sure ppl are saved by medical tech but then killed by the latest weapons and stupidity. Its unfortunate that the next generation of technology is only making us more stupid....

As a note on this post... Im in one of my modes. Pagan is right and im not trying to disprove him... just taking it another level.. (I think??)

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Indicium
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Posted: 17th Mar 2011 21:12
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Technology has allowed us to triple the population of the earth in 200 years, probably even more than that. A lot of people enjoy a higher quality of life thanks to it. If technology for weapons did not exist, we would just slaughter each other with swords and bows regardless.
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 18th Mar 2011 12:34
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Quote: "If technology for weapons did not exist, we would just slaughter each other with swords and bows regardless. "
exept tons of the modern peaceful technology we use came from the miltary industry at one point. Also during USSR all the regular consumer products like TVs, cars, radios, even, furniture, kitchen utensils chemicals and pretty mutch everything was manufactured on small parts of a bigger factories that mainly manufactured military stuff

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Indicium
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Posted: 19th Mar 2011 00:46
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I'm not denying that Am I right in saying nuclear fission was discovered during WW2?
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