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Geek Culture / monkey is available

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tiresius
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 06:25
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Hey folks-

BRL's latest language is out, called 'monkey'. It is cross platform to various targets such as mobile devices and web, etc.

http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/

I'll be comparing this to the App Game Kit provided by our beloved TGC.

I'm sure each will have their own strengths.
Who am I kidding? I will probably purchase both!


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
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Rampage
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 08:16
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Looks amazing. Really like the look of it. The people that made it live in the same place I do, cool.
I've been planning an app for quite a while now. And this multiplatform programming solution is really brilliant. Which is why I liked the idea of AppGameKit so much
Being in university and not having much money is a problem and I only will be able to afford one of them sadly.
I much prefer C++ as a language to develop in. But then AppGameKit has its own special little IDE and I LIKE tgc

Decisions, decisons...

Regards,

Max
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 08:37 Edited at: 1st Mar 2011 08:41
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Seems pretty limited to me, and with a $120 price tag, it doesn't seem like it would be worth buying.
There are no collision detection modules and no built in physics modules, which is what you would expect for $120.

Essentially you are paying $120 for all the classes that Java offers for free, without the ability to extend your library.

In its current form I wouldn't get it, if they did improve the functionality, then it would be worth it I think (But they would have to offer a lot more, or reduce the price).

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EdzUp
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 14:21
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Quote: "Seems pretty limited to me, and with a $120 price tag, it doesn't seem like it would be worth buying.
There are no collision detection modules and no built in physics modules, which is what you would expect for $120.

Essentially you are paying $120 for all the classes that Java offers for free, without the ability to extend your library.

In its current form I wouldn't get it, if they did improve the functionality, then it would be worth it I think (But they would have to offer a lot more, or reduce the price)."


seeing as you can edit the output and add whatever you want to it its definately worth it, you can add physics etc on the resulting built app

-EdzUp
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 14:47 Edited at: 1st Mar 2011 14:56
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Quote: "seeing as you can edit the output and add whatever you want to it its definately worth it, you can add physics etc on the resulting built app"


Why should you have to though? What I'm saying is, for the price, it should include commands like that. It also defeats the point of the app.

If you have to go into every build and edit/add your own features like collision and physics, you would still have to learn all the languages you are building to.

Also, how can you actually build the game without knowing how things are going to react/collide when you test it?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 20:55
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Quote: "Why should you have to though? What I'm saying is, for the price, it should include commands like that."

A lot of people could say the same thing about DB.

It would've been nice if they put some examples of the code on their website or some of the features it supports. There's virtually no information about this language anywhere on their website.

The Internet: Where men are men, women are men, and children are federal agents
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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 21:17 Edited at: 1st Mar 2011 21:18
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Quote: "A lot of people could say the same thing about DB."

DB does, that was his point...

at least in expansions..

Get on my level
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General Jackson
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 22:15
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Looks good.
Funny name though
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EdzUp
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 22:17 Edited at: 1st Mar 2011 22:18
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Quote: "
DB does, that was his point...

at least in expansions..
"

But not with the initial package rather the same as monkey, you have to 'add' to the end result to get extra features.

Yes I agree monkey wont be everyones cup of tea BUT it will help loads achieve things that would have taken ages normally.

-EdzUp
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tiresius
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 22:52
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I don't think adding a system to a specific platform target is ideal at all. I haven't mapped out the language yet to see how modules are built/provided for it (extendability) but if it is anything like BMax someone in the community will provide a collision library for it. I don't know if there is a physics library available for all those targets.

Of course, never buy a product with the expectation to see some yet-to-be-added features.

AGK having Box2D physics right from the get-go is definitely a tasty bonus.


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 22:59
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well monkey is $120? for that you could get DBPro and 2/3 expansions.

Get on my level
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 1st Mar 2011 23:15 Edited at: 1st Mar 2011 23:15
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Quote: "A lot of people could say the same thing about DB."


But the sole purpose of DB isn't to build to multiple devices. What I'm saying is that because the purpose of this product is to build to multiple devices, you shouldn't be expected to edit the build for each device simply to add core features like collision and physics in an engine you've spent $120 on.

All this offers is a copy of Java's 2D API, so for the moment you might as well save yourself the money and just learn Java.

When the engine does offer things like collision, then it would be amazing.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2011 04:30
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Quote: "But not with the initial package rather the same as monkey, you have to 'add' to the end result to get extra features."


Basic collision and physics in 2d projects is not really all that hard to implement in the high level language and doesn't really require a module. Of course, if you need physics on par with box2d it would take quite a bit of work.

I agree it's lame that it's not built-in, but it doesn't make the language useless.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2011 14:14
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I agree it doesn't make it useless, but my argument was it doesn't make it worth $120 I don't think.

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Jeku
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Posted: 6th Mar 2011 03:39
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Quote: "All this offers is a copy of Java's 2D API, so for the moment you might as well save yourself the money and just learn Java."


Are you sure about that? Monkey exports for several platforms that aren't supported by Java (iPad, HTML 5 and Flash for example). This sounds like it could definitely be some competition for AppGameKit in my opinion.


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 6th Mar 2011 22:44 Edited at: 6th Mar 2011 22:46
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Quote: "Are you sure about that? Monkey exports for several platforms that aren't supported by Java (iPad, HTML 5 and Flash for example). This sounds like it could definitely be some competition for AppGameKit in my opinion."


When I said copy, I meant copy of the class structure.

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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Mar 2011 19:52
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I wasn't referring to the "copy" part of your post, just that you recommend people just simply learn Java. The problem is that you can't make iOS, Flash or HTML 5 games or apps with Java. Monkey appears to work for many devices (Java and non-Java based).


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 7th Mar 2011 19:57 Edited at: 7th Mar 2011 20:03
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Quote: "I wasn't referring to the "copy" part of your post, just that you recommend people just simply learn Java. The problem is that you can't make iOS, Flash or HTML 5 games or apps with Java. Monkey appears to work for many devices (Java and non-Java based)."


If you learn Java, You learn:

1. Object Oriented Programming
2. Java syntax/class structure (Which monkey is based upon)

The reason I suggested this, is because if you want to wait until they actually include collision libraries, you can essentially learn monkey for free.

I just think $120 is a little pricey for a language converter and its worth seeing if you can make a game first before you invest in this.

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the_winch
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Posted: 7th Mar 2011 21:10
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I think $120 is pretty cheap for what it claims to do. $120 is what, a days wage? If you are targeting several different platforms then something like this that worked could save you a lot of time.

It's going to be intended for more professional use than something like db.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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PrimalBeans
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Posted: 8th Mar 2011 08:45
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lol a days wage. If your in a solid career, and you work any job other then what you can get out of high school.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 8th Mar 2011 09:51
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That's 2 hours wage for me and I'm not in a highly paid career.

A man will one day wear a tophat in glasgow on a sunny day juggeling grapes while humming the jurrasic park theme tune.
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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Mar 2011 23:43 Edited at: 8th Mar 2011 23:44
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Now that we're comparing, it's about a third of a day's wage for me, before taxes, but who's counting *ahem*. After calculating that, it makes me want to purchase the tool.

I played through all their online HTML 5 demos and am thoroughly impressed. I also enjoyed the Zombie vs. Farmer game in Flash that was developed with monkey.


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 9th Mar 2011 03:09
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Quote: "I think $120 is pretty cheap for what it claims to do. $120 is what, a days wage? If you are targeting several different platforms then something like this that worked could save you a lot of time."


Well when you put it like that, I suppose you are right.

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tiresius
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Posted: 9th Mar 2011 04:11
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Buying monkey is only a waste if you don't use it. Like any other development tool, you get out of it what you put in. I plan on playing with the free HTML5 demo for a while before I commit. By that time, AppGameKit will be out and I'll compare the two.

Although I'm a tried and true DBPro fanboy, I do have some jealousy over the Blitz languages. Especially BlitzMax (which I still haven't purchased despite lurking in their forums for years). I don't want any flames or arguments to start over which is better.

This thread should stay all about monkey!


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Mar 2011 10:23
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Quote: "That's 2 hours wage for me and I'm not in a highly paid career."

You make $60/hr and don't think that's a highly paid career? That's over a 100k a year, sounds like a nice career to me.

The Internet: Where men are men, women are men, and children are federal agents
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DMXtra
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 12:33
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BlitzMax is nothing to be jealous of. I never liked it and even their user base shrank big time, in fact there is probably more people using Blitz 3D, than BlitzMax.

The ONLY language that Mark Sibly ever made worth anything on the PC was Blitz 3D, everything else after that was very disappointing.

Monkey is another unfinished product that the community has to fill in holes. It's slow and you have to do almost everything by hand and the language is not userfriendly, not polished and lacks anything beyond even the most basic feature set. They didn't even have the ability to color an image up until a few weeks ago which slowed everything down even more.

It's got a long way to go and for $120 US dollars and a lot of community promise that doesn't fill me with confidence.

I mean look at that great 3D engine that he was supposed to make for BlitzMax. Whoops, not so great and sent to die when the community couldn't even support the open sourced engine.

Not really a fan of Blitz or Mark Sibly. I once was a fan, but that was when Blitz 3D was out back in the day.

Back then the Blitz 3D language was better than Dark Basic by huge amounts, I don't think that is up for debate, but since then it's not been anything good or worth even considering.

App Game Kit (A.G.K.) - Want to be creative on many platforms at once? This is the tool you need.
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EdzUp
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Posted: 30th Jun 2011 15:27
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Quote: "BlitzMax is nothing to be jealous of. I never liked it and even their user base shrank big time, in fact there is probably more people using Blitz 3D, than BlitzMax."

I do agree that Blitzmax doesnt have the popularity that blitz3d has had BUT it allows for cross-platform compatibility. These days if you dont support cross-platform your sunk.

Quote: "
The ONLY language that Mark Sibly ever made worth anything on the PC was Blitz 3D, everything else after that was very disappointing.
"

I disagree even though BlitzMax isnt the same as Blitz3d its still a nicely polished product, what other easy to use language allows you access to raw openGL commands to make an engine you want rather than waiting for the features you dont.

Quote: "
Monkey is another unfinished product that the community has to fill in holes. It's slow and you have to do almost everything by hand and the language is not userfriendly, not polished and lacks anything beyond even the most basic feature set. They didn't even have the ability to color an image up until a few weeks ago which slowed everything down even more.

It's got a long way to go and for $120 US dollars and a lot of community promise that doesn't fill me with confidence.
"

I do agree that it does appear to be unfinished but it does help some people and its these people that are really bringing stuff out on it.

Quote: "
I mean look at that great 3D engine that he was supposed to make for BlitzMax. Whoops, not so great and sent to die when the community couldn't even support the open sourced engine.
"

Max3d didnt work and everyone in the end realised this, but Leadwerks Engine 2 was written in BlitzMax and thats a AAA class engine.

Quote: "
Not really a fan of Blitz or Mark Sibly. I once was a fan, but that was when Blitz 3D was out back in the day.
"

<SARCASM>I hadnt noticed from your post that your not a fan of Blitz or Mark </SARCASM>. I do agree that Blitz3d is becoming dated now and does require an update.

Quote: "
Back then the Blitz 3D language was better than Dark Basic by huge amounts, I don't think that is up for debate, but since then it's not been anything good or worth even considering."

It depends on what you want to do with the languages everyone has their favourite languages, for me its C++ and OpenGL but BlitzMax and OpenGL does come close as it allows me to rapidly test stuff.

-EdzUp
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MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2011 12:07
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I think Monkey is an interesting tool. Currently I'm going to wait for AppGameKit to be released before I purchase either one or the other. I think the goal of these tools is to save time, so I will be looking for tools like Box2D to quickly generate games and put them on the market quick. That is the overall decision, which tool saves me the most time.

[rant]
Mark Sibly was smart for producing this tool and getting it out quickly, but I do question the longevity. I just wonder if Blitz Research has the manpower to support this tool. The mobile market is changing so fast, it has to be difficult for just one main developer to support all of these platforms and stay current with the changes going on. Am I correct that Mark is the sole developer of this project? Blitz Research always keeps so quiet, I always wonder what is going on(No newsletter, and very rare updates on the forum or webpage by the developers )[/rant]



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
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Jimmy
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2011 15:05
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I don't know anything about Mark Sibly or the history of his Blitz empire. All I know is that, with very minimal effort, I had a game written in monkey building to html5, flash, xna, glfw and my android phone. I took a leap of faith paying $120 for it, but I'm glad I did.

That's not even the best part. The best part is that Mr. Sibly makes the source code for the monkey translator freely available, making the language highly adaptable.

Now if only we could get TGC to follow suit and release the source for the DBP compiler...

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bitJericho
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2011 15:06
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Quote: "Now if only we could get TGC to follow suit and release the source for the DBP compiler..."


omg that would be the greatest day ever. I think I'd have to throw a party and we can all come over and drink and read the funny comments left by lee.

[center]Official TGC President elect.
Pwning newbs since 2002.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2011 16:00
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And for those saying monkey doesn't have Box2D: Ta daaaa.

Like the language itself, it's still in a very early stage, but it's functional and will only get better with time.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2011 17:02
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Before you posted that, I was curious about Box2D support. I found this on their forum:

http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/Community/posts.php?topic=866

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