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Work in Progress / Dark Imposters plugin DBPro/GDK

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Bluespark
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Posted: 15th May 2011 21:30
I meant that I couldn't extract the plugin from your executable. I would like to do the same for my programs as well, so that the plugins I use can't be extracted. Also it would be nice if the media couldn't be extracted as well.
Matty H
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Posted: 15th May 2011 21:55
Oh I see. This plugin will be sold soon on the TGC store, you can then use it in your games. I may release a free version in the future with limited features.

The download in the top post are just examples for you to see it working

Mireben
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Posted: 18th May 2011 20:48 Edited at: 18th May 2011 20:49
This will be very useful! Nice work!
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 25th May 2011 01:25
I would like to be informed

I can see with the 3d part a few idea's I would be able to do

I know computers are getting faster
but any more speed that can be grabbed only helps to add more ;o)

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Bluespark
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Posted: 25th May 2011 03:19
To Matty H
I apologize for the confusion, but my question was on how to "protect" plugins and media so that they can't be extracted and used by other people.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 25th May 2011 04:06
Bluespark

that could be a bit hard

if some hacker wants a file out of program
they will eventually find the door to get it

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 25th May 2011 04:19
Matty H

I was wondering how much will this plug-in cost ?

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 25th May 2011 15:26
Quote: "This will be very useful! Nice work! "


Thanks, Mireben.

Quote: "I apologize for the confusion, but my question was on how to "protect" plugins and media so that they can't be extracted and used by other people. "


There are options to encrypt all your media etc. But it's not something I have ever done so I can't really give advice.

Plugins are usually in the form of dll's or library files which makes it hard to access the internal workings of that plugin. But as Resourceful said, if someone really wants to reverse engineer it they could.

Quote: "I was wondering how much will this plug-in cost ?"


It should be on sale next week for £14.99

baxslash
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Posted: 27th May 2011 18:09
Quote: "It should be on sale next week for £14.99"

Better start checking for change down the back of the sofa then... I'm a bit skint at the moment but I REALLY want this plugin

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 28th May 2011 08:32
Bluespark

the one thing you can do to protect the images
is load them into memory and then save them as a memory dump

as for the dll's and 3d files that will be anther
thing to be work out

encrypting files will all ways be a problem

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 28th May 2011 08:59
Bluespark

check out
Zappo Decompress Plugin (DBPro)
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106715&b=5

Useful TPC Plugins 2
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=92836&b=5

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 1st Jun 2011 23:16
hey Matty H


I am almost sold on "Dark Imposters plugin DBPro/GDK"
I like the space rocks and the tree example

the one example
as per what I saw in the news letter for this month

"is mutable animated objects"

I would like to see and example of that before I decide to buy



thanks

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2011 00:51
@Resourceful - Yeah sure, I will post the goblin example on here, it is the one from the picture, not the video, it shows a thousand goblins walking along and runs at a good frame rate on my mid range machine.

In fact, I will post all the examples you get with Dark Imposters on here with the example code. There are a couple of things that need changing first but I will post them as soon as they are done.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2011 01:43
Matty H

thanks

I understand how your plugin works so that frame rate is faster

between your plugin and Blitzwerks Terrain

a lot more speed can be gained for other things

now if the gpu would only move up in ghz for the video
even more doors would be open

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2011 20:16
I bought "Dark Imposters plugin" for use with DBPro

my only problem is I can't activate it

when i try it says product unknown

any one else have this problem ?

I know it's new bee to the dbp data base

unless the code they gave me was incorrect

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2011 20:36
You need to update to latest version of DBPro here:
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2000&page=upgrade7-61

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2011 20:54
I've got 7.7 rc 7 of dbp

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 11:12
Quote: "You need to update to latest version of DBPro here:"

Make that "downdate", I was using 7.7 rc 7 too and had to go back to 7.61 as Matty suggested. Now working!

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 11:44
basically RE install DBP ;Op

nuts ....

baxslash

can you pack all media files in a main file like in older
version of DBP or is that still broken ?

I guess once I am dun reinstalling the pay parts
and adding in free additions things I can continue

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 11:52
It seems that when a new plugin is released they need to update the compiler to protect that plugin.

I presume any versions/betas released after June 1st will recognise Dark Imposters.

baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 13:12
Quote: "can you pack all media files in a main file like in older
version of DBP or is that still broken ?"

I haven't tried but I wasn't aware there was a problem. Are you asking because of a known issue?

Quote: "I guess once I am dun reinstalling the pay parts
and adding in free additions things I can continue"

Do you need to do a full reinstall of all products? I use most of the available plugins and only had to use the code for DBP after I reinstalled that...

Quote: "I presume any versions/betas released after June 1st will recognise Dark Imposters."

That's what normally happens but the beta versions sometimes run a little behind, I guess because they can only release a beta when it is fully checked in and ready for release?

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 14:04
baxslash

I've been bisy over the last 2 years collecting
the pay and the free addition some of the free stuff replaces
the pay stuff

least I forget all the code that has been post on this forum
and 2 others I found in my travels and other web sites

I was hopeing to just add in this plugin and go
but nooo this one will not get past dbp registration
the 2 others I bought works with no problems

in the DBP 7.7 RC7 makeing a exe with the media only seems
to work when it wants too but some of that could be becouse
of conflicts with pay and free dll's

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
baxslash
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 14:28
Have you tried installing V7.61 as Matty and I suggested? I know it's odd that V7.7 doesn't work but I know V7.61 does, I was compiling with it yesterday.

Media bug:-I had only just updated to 7.7 rc7 and hadn't actually tried packing media in that version. Have you reported this bug? If not it's quite an important one that needs reporting.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2011 22:16
yes I trided to install v7.61 it told me it could not locate
the install folder and a pointed it right too it

but there is one thing most people do not know

DBP can be copped from one computer to anther
with out reinstalling , so for example of I wanted it put
a full setup on 500 computers I could , I know when my internet
went down about 3 weeks back I went to run it and it showed
the banner telling me it was not the full version but once the
net came back up that went away

the only thing some registry entries don't get put in
for the most part no big deal but in this case it seems like it is

I was not rile wanting to reinstall DBP as recently I
had to do a reinstall of windows because of computer virus

I did not lose any thing but it was still a pain

my DBP consisted of 2.8 gb of main files and example
and I rile did not want to reinstall and fix
bad code in some of the examples so they would work like
should

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 4th Jun 2011 05:05
well it's dun

I did the cd install and the update and put the necessary files in place


all ran like it was suppose to

the only odd thing not that it should be posted here

I bought "BLITZWERKS TERRAIN 2.02"

I had not registered it but it run and did not say about being registered ..

on the the ico and the mouse over it said it was not registered

I hope to never have to reinstall DBP for some time
too bad now I have to put things back to get them
the way I need them ......

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 4th Jun 2011 06:05
umm in the Asteroids example

I changed the aCount from 40 to 140
my cps changed from 60 to 10 or less

umm was this the wrong place to change to get more Asteroids ?

I would like to see the source code for the original 3 Asteroids examples

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 4th Jun 2011 14:27 Edited at: 4th Jun 2011 14:33
Quote: "I changed the aCount from 40 to 140
my cps changed from 60 to 10 or less "


You must keep in mind that in that example 40 = 1600(40 * 40) asteroids.

Setting to 140 means you will have 19600(140 * 140) asteroids, which is quite alot more.

If you want that many asteroids then take a look at the advanced section in the docs on culling. It is really simple to implement for the static asteroids and you should then be able to get to the numbers you are looking for with a good frame rate.

I still need to do a culling example to really show what is possible. The landscape demo I made used some culling, I had four groups, each one had objects just in one corner of the terrain, this just give a little extra boost when you are not viewing the whole landscape.

I will expand upon the asteroid example when I do a culling example.

EDIT: Just looked at that example, aCount set to 40 is 1600 asteroids per group, and there are two groups. Therefore a value of 140 means you would have 39200 asteroids, culling will be needed for those kinds of numbers.

Here is the source code for the example you can download from the product page, the only thing that is added is the ability to set the values from the provided text file.


gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 4th Jun 2011 18:46
Matty H

ok I understand

in a Sifi tv show called Voyager in one part of the opening
Sean's the show the ship flying though the rings of Saturn

that's one example I would like to see reproduced

thanks Matty H for the source code

at this point all my work will be in DBP not Dark Gdk
as I have not bought that or understand how to program in such

but that dose explain why thous examples you provided run faster

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 4th Jun 2011 20:33
I will do a ring of asteroids for the culling example.

Has anyone got a good planet model/texture I could use? If not I will just use a large blue sphere

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 4th Jun 2011 22:04
ok I went though my vast collection of pic

I found a few you can use

I hope one of them if not all of them will do the trick

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 5th Jun 2011 00:35
one more example I have found in the forums some ware
or it could have been in the CodeBase

it was a tank that left tracks

the thing with that example there was a limited amount of
tracks spots left behind and if it needed to create the last
one in the line would be removed

with this add on a long and I mean long tack trail should be
be able to be left behind

I know I have played games ware tracks from a vehicle
lengthy tracks were left for quit some time

I would two of my latest thoughts this would show others
what "Dark Imposters plugin" can do for the people who buy it

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 5th Jun 2011 16:54
Thanks for the textures Resourceful, here is how it looks at the moment.


I have not yet added the culling, I will do that next. The key to producing rings is the equation of a circle.
r*r = x*x + z*z
where r is the radius and x and z are spacial coordinates.

I'm not sure how the tank track example works but if they are 2D plains then they are already very low poly and I'm not sure imposters would speed this up, it depends how its done.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 5th Jun 2011 17:04
thanks Matty H

that's how I thought it would look

with the tank thought

it would be more about combing the laid down track peaces into
one peace so that more spots open up and a track treads would
be rile long

in the one example I had it would be 3 lengths of what the tank
was before it would disappear

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 5th Jun 2011 23:41
I found the example to do with Tank Tracks


20 Liners /
[DBPRO]Tank trails

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=163098&b=11

when you run it you will see what happens to the tank tracks

they are a limited amount tacks

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 6th Jun 2011 00:31
Nice 20 liner, pretty cool.

I may give this a try with imposters if I get some time, its using boxes which are only 12 triangles, imposters are 2 triangles so you may save some cpu.

Imposters save more cpu when using high detailed objects, so you can perhaps leave lots of dead bodies in a scene rather than having to fade them out etc, stuff like that.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 6th Jun 2011 00:56
I expanded a bit on the example I found
you can download it and check out for your self

the longer the trail the CPS drop

so perhaps Matty H is correct that "Dark Imposters plugin DBPro/GDK"
may not be an option to use with this

it comes down to adding limbs to an object and taking away
in real time ..

as to how fast that can happen that will only be known
once the code is built

it just seemed to me that ""Dark Imposters plugin DBPro/GDK""
was the dll to speed things up

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?

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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 6th Jun 2011 01:09
yes Matty H

with dead bodies
I know that would give back cpu time with less to rendering to do

I've played games ware the body's do fade out
and I've played other games ware the body's stick around

I tried to get the program to get the cps before any thing
ran but had no success , I wanted to show how things
changed the more got placed

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 7th Jun 2011 16:06
@Resourceful - Sorry I have not yet produced the culling example, for some reason the dark basic command 'object in screen' is not quite working properly, it might be because the bounding boxes I create are very large(and thin), not sure.

I will get back to doing the example soon, I just have a couple of other issues to address first.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 7th Jun 2011 22:06
not a problem Matty H

all good thoughts take time

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 01:21
Updated first post, I will keep the first post up to date on progress of new releases etc.

People should be aware of this issue:

KNOWN ISSUES:
It has been reported that on certain machines/graphics cards, the imposters can produce artifacts around the edges. This goes away if you be sure to split up your group textures using values that are factors of the texture size:

For a texture size of 2048 x 2048
- 40 * 40 imposters can cause issues
- 32 * 32 imposters will not

I can't replicate this on my machine so let me know if anyone knows the cause, it may just be a limitation of some graphics cards.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 02:16
Matty H

about your post using the old circle code
Posted: 5th Jun 2011 02:54

EZ Rotate is better for doing this

just some thing to consider

a tiny but I think important request

when creating messages for the post please have it
so that it dose not make the screen like this one is now

way past the 1024 dot size
and if pictures posted could be set for max of 800 x 600
it just makes it easier to read peoples posts

just something to think about

now saying that

I know there are people out there making textures
2048 x 2048

it seams to me to way over the limit
512 x 512 max but
256 x 256 would seam to big enough

or at least set up several texture sizes
based on distance

this will free up memory no only for the main computer
but on the video card helping your program to do more

and not all objects need high resolution
even your objects you use some need to
enough detail to fit the bill

there 2 programs one you can find thought

The Game Creators web site and anther can be
found thought your favorite search engine

these can reduce the quality as needed
so your could have like 4 versions of the same object
based on distance from the player

and if it's way far from the player you could have a rile
low quality version of the object just so people get and idea
of item that they are looking at

all these peace speed up your program
and are less ware and tear on peoples computer
so they do not need to buy a new one each year

just things to think about .....

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 02:58
Quote: "when creating messages for the post please have it
so that it dose not make the screen like this one is now "


I am aware of this issue, I made the image smaller for the first post, not really as worried for page 3

Quote: "I know there are people out there making textures
2048 x 2048

it seams to me to way over the limit
512 x 512 max but
256 x 256 would seam to big enough"


Everytime Dark Imposters needs to render to a texture the render target changes, this is an expensive operation, also, packing as many objects as possible onto one large texture is generally a good thing. This is where the main speed increase comes from, all imposters are rendered as one object from one texture.

Large textures do not have a negative effect on performance, so when possible put as many objects/imposters as possible onto one texture.

The only times you should consider smaller textures are as follows:
- The computer does not support large textures.
- You don't have many objects, or they are all small objects.
- You are implementing culling and need to find a balance.


Quote: "and if it's way far from the player you could have a rile
low quality version of the object just so people get and idea
of item that they are looking at "


I think you are talking about LOD levels, this is a well known technique and should always be considered. Dark Imposters has the ability to use your lowest poly model to render it to the texture.

The advantages using imposters are as follows:
- They are only 2 polys, there is a regeneration overhead but you can control that to get a good balance.
- You get all the detail if you want it, lighting etc
- You save time/memory from having to create/load lots of lod levels for each model. Every model you have can be optimised without any extra work.

I have a couple of features in mind that I may implement in the future, one is the ability to setup 3 textures per group, all different sizes, then render to the best one depending on distance.
A bit like lod for imposters, this may give an extra little boost to your projects

TechLord
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 08:26
DarkImposters is looking amazing Matty!

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2011 11:35
just for fun
I rebuilt the icon's for Dark Imposters

there are two sizes
256 x 256 for xp up
and 64 x 64 for xp and under

info text is included with file

grab a copy ;o)

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?

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Matty H
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Posted: 4th Jul 2011 15:36
@Resourceful - Pretty cool icons, what did you use to make them? My next project is an application so I will have to make some icons, I have done one before but can't remember what I used although I remember I had to draw it pixel by pixel

I have sent the update to TGC so if it's fine it should be released soon, it has a few fixes and a culling example, as promised

baxslash
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Posted: 4th Jul 2011 15:42 Edited at: 4th Jul 2011 15:42
I use IcoFX: http://icofx.ro/

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 4th Jul 2011 15:43
Matty H

I used "Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2" to create the images
and I then used "XnView" which is free to convert them to ico

Pixel's building not bad for editing but ya it will twist your eyes


Glad to know there is an update ;o)

I hope the icon's I did were part of the update ? ;o)

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?
Matty H
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Posted: 5th Jul 2011 14:55
IcoFX looks really good, I will try that out thanks.

@Resourceful - I have not used any icons for Dark Imposters, thanks anyway

Matty H
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Posted: 15th Jul 2011 22:48
Mike has informed me that the latest version is now available for download, changes are as follows:

Dark Imposters v1.1

New commands:
-IMP GET MAX TEXTURE WIDTH
-IMP GET MAX TEXTURE HEIGHT
-IMP IS IMPOSTER

Fixes:
-Fixed bug that could cause extreme distant objects to not
render to texture properly.
-Improved z-sorting for fading imposters, now sorts in small
amounts each frame rather than doing a full sort at given
time intervals.
-IMP IMPOSTER GET ACTIVE was wrongly returning whether the object was
currently an object or an imposter, now it returns whether
the imposter has been removed from the scene, as possible
using IMP SET ACTIVE.
-Fixed bug which prevented last object added to a group from
being added to object/imposter map. This affexted IMP IMPOSTER GET ACTIVE
and IMP IS IMPOSTER
-Fixed fade bug, when fading was used the object/imposter map was invalidated.
(would access wrong imposters)

Documentation:
-Added culling example
-Improved examples, camera movement etc, they now take into account
that some hardware requires textures to be split up evenly.

DarkGDK:
-Added VS10 lib

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 20:29
I downloaded the update

it gave me 3 choices

Modify , Repair , Remove

I left it with Modify

umm ware is the "Added culling example" ?

current folder list

Animated Imposters
Dynamic Imposters
Fading and Transparency
Multiple Cameras

is it part of one of those examples ?
or it just a post in the help file ?
a tiny option of turning off the update progress bar
so that when I build the 3d worlds the user dose not have to see that


I'm glad there is proper installer program
other additions I have bought you had to manually install
the files , but saying that in this case I would have preferred
to have see what files are in the update

If a thought is Just a thought ~ so whats the main thought ?

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