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Geek Culture / tablet computers? (ipads?) why?

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 24th Apr 2011 09:18
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so recentley, all these ipads, and a crapload of ipad clones stromed the market and it became like the thing of the new decade. I pretty much ignored them. Untill today.

It hit me. i didnt even see this coming. this abstract question hit me like a train and left my brain paralyzed unable to think which is why i am asking this question.

Ipads, rover pads, samsung pads, asus.. pads or tablets or whatever they call any other Ipad clone....
What are they for? what is their purpose? how is their inferiority to pretty much any modern computer/laptop/ even netbooks make them so popular? What do you even use them for??? What is it that a consumer would want to do that he would want to buy persisley an ipad for??

I used to think netbooks were useless, but when at one point i had no computer and only 300 bucks, i bought one. and believe it or not, i used it to code in DARK BASIC! and make low poly 3D models and texturing them with ms paint textures. and i even almost finished a small level editor before i realised that my system was crap and i have to rewrite it from scratch (i gave up on that). i also played some games on it from early 2000s.
then the netbook broke and i got a real computer.

but ipads! i cant use them for any of that! and i cant think of why would anyone perfer an ipad over a real notebook computer or at least an EEPC netbooks that has a tochscreen and actually sortof decent upgradeble hardware.

reveal this mystery! pleese! my brain will stop hurting

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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SH4773R
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Posted: 24th Apr 2011 09:44
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Ipads have just allways shiny toys to me.
I don't see a point other than watching videos for those things. They will never replace my belovid 3.2ghz system.


My software never has bugs, it just develops random features.
C4: silly putty for men.
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ShaunRW
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Posted: 24th Apr 2011 11:38
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Other than games that get boring after a few minutes, i can't think of anything that an ipad would do better then a laptop.


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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 24th Apr 2011 13:23
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I used to be in the tablet market but got fed up and quit because for the most part they are gimmicks. The tablet form factor has been around for years, but only really in professional applications such as hospitals etc. where there is actually a need for small handheld devices capable of monitoring, note taking etc.

For media and casual web browsing on the move they are brilliant, but I would say that they have no place anywhere else (apart from professional applications) - but for £400+ they're way to expensive considering they are no means a replacement for a desktop / laptop PC.

It annoys me how people often link Apple with the invention of the tablet - like I said earlier tablets have been around for year. I do admire Apple's ability to bring certain devices into the mainstream though.


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ShaunRW
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Posted: 24th Apr 2011 17:55 Edited at: 24th Apr 2011 17:55
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Quote: "It annoys me how people often link Apple with the invention of the tablet - like I said earlier tablets have been around for year. I do admire Apple's ability to bring certain devices into the mainstream though."

Thats probably due to the way they name their devices. For example, you can get an MP3 player or an iPod, You can get a smart phone or an iPhone, tablet computer or iPad. People get used to the one brand name, that they think everything else is just copying. This is the way i see it.


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GOPHER
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 15:36
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I thought I'd weigh in...

I'm looking at the touch tablet market as a precursor the next generation of computing/ gaming. So for people like myself and others in this thread I see them as a bit of a toy and a device that isn't very productive as compared to a laptop or a desktop.

However won't be me or others of my vintage that will be driving the technology market in 5 to 10 years time it will be todays 13yo and younger that use touch devices every day right now. As they own a larger steak of the consumer market the device they will be most familiar with are the touch devices.

So I guess my answer to why I've adopted the iPad and persevered with it's limitations, and endeavored to try and develop real games, not casual game is because I dont want to be the old guy in the corner saying " I hate using a touch keyboard, full sized keyboards are much better"

I'd rather be the old guy saying I'm glad I shifted my focus to mobile game development because those 13yo sure have a lot of loose change lying around these days.

Wow sorry for the rant
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zenassem
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:00 Edited at: 18th Aug 2011 16:04
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Here's the thing that had me scratching my head when the Ipad became a sensation...

HP TC1100 (From 2003 mind you) VS. Ipad 1

http://www.blameitonthevoices.com/2010/01/ipad-vs-hp-tc1100.html



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:02
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Tablets are useful handheld devices but have now been marketed (quite successfully) to the consumer market. They're simple and easy to use, they're ergonomic, intuitive to use, convenient, ultra light and very sci-fi (you could pretend you're on the Starship Enterprise).

Some people put a price on that. Some put on a price on the gadgets and gimicks too, of course (hence the sci-fi joke).

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BatVink
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:09
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Quote: "all these ipads, and a crapload of ipad clones"


What iPad clones? iPad didn't invent the tablet computer. They jumped on a trend, and in Apple style they jumped on it quite successfully as your statement illustrates, thinking they invented the concept.

Tablets are useful in a business environment. Salesmen don't need high-end laptops to show Powerpoint presentations and spreadsheets. In many irrational companies they get the best kit, and tablet computers go some way to redressing the balance; they get a lightweight toy to show off to customers, and leave more budget for the minions who are developing software and maintaining the IT infrastructure.

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old_School
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:35 Edited at: 18th Aug 2011 16:35
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Tablets are simply a "lite weight" tool for personal and commercial use. The concept is provide a portable device that can function like a computer, internet/networkable and store data. Its a PDA basicly. The concept is very old and is not new. I honestly laugh at Apple when they attmpt to make it appear as though they gave birth to some extrodnary idea.

The reason why mobile devices are taking off is simple. "Wifi" and wireless internet has made it possiable for the "PDA" to take its next step forward. Sadly Microsoft currently is no where to be found. However, to me this means Microsoft is waiting for the perfect time to step in and crush Apple to the ground like they should to begin with.

Anyway, I would not count on the Tablet to stick around. Smart phones will likely become advanced enough to provide the full solution. I predict in ten years, tablets will start going away and smart phones will conquer all. Sadly smart phones in tn years might even start to replace the "PC". The only down side to a smart phone replaceing a PC is performance. Storage is obviously a easy fix. Processing power however is still to limited on a smart phone.Granted its much better but still limited when compared to a PC.

So from a business since thinking short term. Tablets, smart phones and any thing portable right now is extremely hot market. However, I suggest you don't make any long term plans with those markets. Consumers will wise up soon and go back to using standard devices. As for those interested with working with Apple Inc. I dont recomend it. If you have money invested in Apple, I recomend in 6 months you pull out. Microsoft will soon start to persue the smart phone and tablet market. Microsoft never does anything lightly and they will dominate the market.

Think about it in common logic. 95% of you reading this are using a PC. For the 5% on a Mac in 3 years you will be reading it from a 2,000 paper weight. PC users can at least upgrade their machine. Apple don't sell parts, so good luck with that upgrade. Point being, Microsoft controls the market still. Because Apple contenue's to make poor engineering choices, they will allways suffer. Im not going to buy your machine if I cant upgrade it or modify it physicaly. So why would I buy your other hardware devices? Why would I not buy a Microsoft product. I use their OS and I know I can trust Microsoft. So why would I buy other peoples device for more money? I would not and thats the point.

If tablets do stick around in ten years. I look for Microsoft to shape and mold it into a tool and not a device for playing. the device was never intended to be used as a toy and I don't for see Microsoft dumbing down its consumers for a device. I look for Microsoft to push us back on track.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:43
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Quote: "What iPad clones?"


Maybe they didn't invent the tablet computer, but there have been many clones already, such as these for example.



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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:50 Edited at: 18th Aug 2011 16:51
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While I can't fit a tablet in my pocket, it is no more ergonomic or practical to me than a laptop. A laptop is a superior device, in all but touch screen, so I don't get the point of tablets either.

I really think I should have one for my game dev business. I know I should. I know I need a 3.0+ tablet to broaden my development/testing solutions, but I really can't bring myself to buy one because I know I would never use it. It is useless to me.

I think GOPHER is right. By itself, it's simply a fad, but it is a precursor to the next big things. So it's a necessary step which in itself is pointless (imo). But obviously the first petrol cars where awful compared to horses, but we don't choose a Palamino over a Bowler Wildcat now, do we?

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Van B
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 16:54
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Well ask yourself, how many people do you know who own an iPad, and how many of those people are wondering why they got one?

I recently bought my 7 yo nephew an android tablet, and very nice it is too. See you can't trust a 7 year old with a laptop, it'd be full of viruses and malware within day 1. But a tablet, paying less than £100 for it, and having a secure system that allows games and youtube and google, well it's what the kids want. He loves it, aparantly it's the best present in the history of everything.

I spent my Intel gold on a netbook-ish laptop, it's a little bigger and has an ION gfx card. I code in DBPro on that - usually for just 30 mins before I go to sleep, but this little thing is no slouch. It can run Minecraft pretty well too. But my point is that the early netbooks are no indication of current netbooks, with ION gfx they are capable little machines.

IMO, your attitude towards these things is a bit off. You aren't seeing the big picture, you see your PC in the corner and wonder why you would want a tablet - well you wouldn't! - but someone who travels a lot might see things differently, or someone who reads a lot might really like a Kindle, or other tablet. They serve a purpose, some of them serve several purposes. Think about general people who don't have high spec PC's - what do they need a PC for?

Pictures
Videos
Email
Youtube
Facebook
Casual Games
Google

That list probably accounts for 99% of home computer use for everyday people, and tablets take care of all that. When you want to quickly look up youtube, do you boot your PC up, sit and wait for a minute, check it, shut down... or wouldn't it be easier to stay on the couch and use a tablet!
It's instant access to services that would otherwise only be available on a PC, having that stuff in the palm of your hand is exactly why tablets sell.

As for iPad vs HP's gadget tile - well it's no comparison. Try and run a game on that HP thing, see what sort of performance you get! - a 1ghz running a custom OS is different to a 1ghz running XP home. Notice the lack of any negating comparison, like screen resolution or price.
I've used HP PDA's from that era, and let me tell you that most of them got thrown in the bin after a few months - unreliable, slow, conveluted... just badness that we don't have to put up with on modern devices. So please take off the rose tinted Apple-hater-shades.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 17:23
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The iPad is literally just a giant iPod Touch, (I'm not trying to spew fan-boy babble) and I just don't understand Apple fan-boys admit it.

Then again...

Android tablets are just as useless. ANY tablet is just an overblown version of it origin OS.

Honeycomb = Giant Android Phone
Blackberry Play = Giant Blackberry RIM

Sure,

I mean you can use them for quick checks on things, like email, Facebook, twitter, and so on. But i see no reason to pay $500 for a "quick use" device.

Laptops/Net-books will always be superior to tablets no matter what.

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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 17:52 Edited at: 18th Aug 2011 17:54
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@VanB, I see where you're coming from, but my girlfriend is one of those casual users. She uses her lappy for very little, but she does a lot of social networking (i.e. facebook). You can't tell me FB would be more pleasant to use on a tablet, without a keyboard? She also does the odd bit of word processing ... the occasional letter etc. I can't see how a tablet can take on that functionality.

We both hibernate our laptops, so they start in about 20 seconds. The only way a tablet could beat that significantly would be if it was left on all the time, and then you'd be charging it every evening.

I see what you're saying about they suit most people's needs, but I bet most of these people also have a laptop, because they can't write and print letters or perform other tasks that need a keyboard. I don't actually know many people with tablets, but the few I can think of also have laptops.

I still think they're a fad. People probably think they're great, then resort back to their laptops when they actually need to do something serious. The example you gave of your nephew is somebody who is never going to need a word processor, nor cares about FB at a guess.

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Hassan
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 18:06
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but tablet PCs has a built-in keyboard (on-screen), and i find it quite usable for my iPhone, so i think it's even more comfortable on an iPad or any tablet PC, especially for facebook as you suggested, you wouldn't need more than the on-screen keyboard as you will most of the time be writing short comments

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Van B
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 18:15
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With iPod Touches at least, you press the power button, and it's on with no delay at all - I'm guessing the iPad is the same. There is no noticable delay with iOS devices, I have noticed a delay with Android though.

Your right though, my nephew doesn't care much about Facebook, it's mostly youtube, and sick online games that he's into, and paying (I think) £80 for a tablet for him far outweighed the pros and cons of getting him a netbook. Kids break netbooks - from my experience at least. To be honest, I'm disinclined to get any of my family a PC (laptop, netbook, desktop, whatever) because I'm the IT guy, and it would just mean more issues for me to sort. I built my brother a PC and within 1 week I had it back for re-installing.

I do know what your saying though, they don't and will never replace laptops, but I can see things like external controllers, keyboards etc for tablets becoming more common - an emalgamation of tablets and netbooks, like the stuff Dell is doing. Ideally, we'll see accurate Wacom style tablet netbooks for reasonable money before long. I'd love one of those drawing tablet monitors but they are just too expensive.

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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 20:52
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I hope the tech becomes something I'd be interested in. Right now I'm in front of the tele on this forum, and the laptop is on my lap (probably giving me testicular cancer, but anyway ...), and it's a good form factor. I don't know how I'd sit with a tablet. I guess I'd have to hold it, rather than rest it on my lap with the screen pointed towards me? Seems like too much effort!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 21:19 Edited at: 18th Aug 2011 21:23
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Quote: "Consumers will wise up soon and go back to using standard devices. As for those interested with working with Apple Inc. I dont recomend it. If you have money invested in Apple, I recomend in 6 months you pull out. Microsoft will soon start to persue the smart phone and tablet market. Microsoft never does anything lightly and they will dominate the market. "


Just like they did with the Zune? Apple won the MP3 player market and still after many years lots and lots of people are buying iPods. With the smartphone market, Apple are still standing strong, even though Microsoft have had their foot in it. Microsoft even had Windows on portable devices before any of the iPhone or iPad malarky, yet they didn't meet the same success as Apple's marketing risk with the tablet PC. Not trying to say Apple is better than Microsoft, after all Microsoft STILL hold a VERY strong market with their operating systems, heck this is being typed from within Windows 7 and not MacOS X. I love MacOS X, but I'm still a Windows person. I don't think Microsoft will take the tablet market and probably realise that they won't.

But it seems from within the Microsoft user base there's a LOT of bias against Apple. It seems everytime Apple takes a risk with a new product and change the market they're faced with heavy criticism...when that market and product is successful other companies latch on and release their own versions, like the Samsung Galaxy range of products people STILL criticise what Apple have done yet find themselves in favour of the duplicates out there and in defense argue, "Apple haven't done anything new, look 'x' company did something similar 'y' years ago" because they don't want to admit anything in favour of Apple. Yes, 'x' company may have done something similar 'y' years ago, but they're not the ones who opened the current market and they're not the ones who people are trying to duplicate.

No innovation in the electronics is completely original anyway (why reinvent the wheel?), there's a great deal of borrowing and new ideas being added and new approaches used or simply people thinking, "that's a good idea, but not enough people have used it", Apple make their own contributions even if people refuse to admit it. The current tablet market has had a big input from Apple and they're very strong and I don't think they claimed to have 'invented' the tablet either. I mean, it is a big iPod Touch essentially, just re-purposed with a larger viewing area to do more.

Quote: "Think about it in common logic. 95% of you reading this are using a PC. For the 5% on a Mac in 3 years you will be reading it from a 2,000 paper weight. PC users can at least upgrade their machine. Apple don't sell parts, so good luck with that upgrade. Point being, Microsoft controls the market still. Because Apple contenue's to make poor engineering choices, they will allways suffer. Im not going to buy your machine if I cant upgrade it or modify it physicaly. So why would I buy your other hardware devices? Why would I not buy a Microsoft product. I use their OS and I know I can trust Microsoft. So why would I buy other peoples device for more money? I would not and thats the point. "


1) My Mum, who does illustration runs an old eMac she's had for long time.
2) She upgraded the RAM so she could run a newer version of Photoshop.
3) It works fine, she can do her artwork/illustrations with no problems. She doesn't need an Intel i7 Mac with an ATI Radeon HD Graphics card with 8gb RAM. Technology is only a paper weight when it's no long useful to the USER, not when it's considered 'old' and 'decrepid' by the current technology.
4) Apple sell parts. Not just RAM either and Apple aren't only sellers. E.G. ATI Radeon HD 5770 Mac, ATI Radeon HD 5770 PC
Not every type of Mac can be upgraded, nor can every type of PC.

And when I was working in retail, the majority of people looking for computers didn't care that they could upgrade their system, heck if I were to talk about simple technical details I would have scared them off. What the average computer user is interested in is if it'll do what they want it to do. If it can do that and they're willing to pay the price offered, they will buy it. Most of the time people wanted to know if it'll run Facebook, run Facebook games, do email, connect to the internet (second hand computers with faulty wireless or no wireless were impossible to sell, even though they could upgrade easily) and run office applications.

And a geek like me isn't bothered that the only component in my ThinkPad I can upgrade is the RAM, because it does everything I need it to. 3 years down the line, it'll still do what it's doing now and it's less powerful than the laptop (now dead) I bought 3 years ago. As for Desktop PC, a Mac Mini would actually do what I need. I'm not a massive PC gamer. I play my games on an XBox 360.


[Edit]

I hope I don't come off as hostile. I know when a 'Mac' is brought up on these forums get heated, but I'm actually chilled...as always.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 21:31
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Our company has sold about...four iPads at the last count, (a day or so ago, had them for two weeks.)

They're fun for ten minutes, but seperate keyboard > on-screen, as either you sacrifice screen space for key size, or vice-versa. I'm on a Netbook now actually, much cheaper than any tablet, and it can run pretty well. Multitakss nicely, does everything I need.

I put this question to my customers a couple of times, some of them decide on a laptop in the end, some just leave.

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swissolo
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 21:37
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CG got the customers to buy something... better? I've never seen a marketer not try to sell whatever is most profitable. Then again Apple most likely consumes most of the profit anyways, maybe it's a win-win?

I see no value in weak tablets at all, I'm with you here PAGAN.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 22:07
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Apple have appalling profit margins on their stock. It's actually not worth my while even selling an iPod, because then I'd have to sell a bunch of other stuff to bump up my margin figures.

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swissolo
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 22:22
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Quote: "Then again Apple most likely consumes most of the profit anyways"

Confirmed.

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Libervurto
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Can you plug a keyboard into a tablet? What was that laptop that you could detach the screen and it would act like a tablet? If you had a proper keyboard then you could also use it for work.

Would it be possible to make a touch screen that could deform itself creating a textured surface? For example you would bring up the on-screen keyboard and the keys would actually rise up out of the screen! That would be great for the blind too, you could display Braille.

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Isocadia
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I love how on the IPad the J and F key have those bars on them, for the rest I find it a rather expensive gimmick for reading some info sites and watching the occasional youtube video.
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Eminent
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 01:14
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@OBese the Asus Transformer?


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DJ Almix
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 01:20
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Quote: "I love how on the IPad the J and F key have those bars on them, for the rest I find it a rather expensive gimmick for reading some info sites and watching the occasional youtube video."


Same for the iPad.

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Isocadia
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I was talking about the IPad Almix
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DJ Almix
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 01:27
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Quote: "I was talking about the IPad Almix "


I was agreeing with you

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 04:50
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Quote: "The iPad is literally just a giant iPod Touch, (I'm not trying to spew fan-boy babble) and I just don't understand Apple fan-boys admit it."

But I love my Touch

I don't have an iPad personally, but I know a bloke who uses it all the time, because all he needs is to be able to go on the net and download music and pictures (He works for a choir), so it does everything he needs.

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Plystire
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 06:34
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I think everyone around me shares the same sentiment regarding tablets. Let's face it, a touch-screen just doesn't work out well for typing. I can hardly touch-type on a proper keyboard, let alone on a perfectly smooth surface with no touch-reference of where the keys are.

On top of inherently failed keyboard designed, there's a severe lack of need for a tablet. The companies pawning off these devices attempt to boost their numbers by pumping them full of crap that the general market doesn't want or use.

I still fail to see the grand usefulness of a smartphone. Albeit, I am not the kind of person to download appstore games/"utilities" and I understand its usefulness for people that do. But in comparison to a tablet, the smart phones have mobile internet via 3G networking, while the tablets don't.

What's so great about a smartphone? Phone calls, mobile internet, appstore... that's it.
What's so great about a tablet? ... that's it.

The people I know that have a smartphone (not restricting this to iPhones) use it primarily to make phone calls and pass the time playing little games, watching youtube vids, and/or listening to music. What is useful about it without internet? Playing games you downloaded when you DID have internet, and listening to offline music.

Personally speaking, I don't care for listening to music 24/7, and if I wanted to play games to pass the time, my DS/PSP do more than enough.

Quote: "Would it be possible to make a touch screen that could deform itself creating a textured surface?"


For the purpose of... what? Besides increasing the cost of manufacturing, I mean. A blind person has little use for a computer, being that more than half of the interaction between human and computer is visual.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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Le Shorte
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 06:44
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Note: I really haven't read most of the thread, so please excuse me if my post was already covered.


My family won an iPad 2 for free back in March. Would we pay $500 for it? No. Is it cool and useful? Yeah.
I think the main thing that kills it is the price. $200-$250 should really be the price range for what you get, in my opinion, but I understand Apple needs to make money (Not that an iPad costs all that much to make).

Cheesehead for life.
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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 09:36
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Quote: "but I know a bloke who uses it all the time, because all he needs is to be able to go on the net and download music and pictures (He works for a choir), so it does everything he needs"


He could do all that with a netbook though, for half the price, and still have a keyboard to type on. Just saying! (He was had!)

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 16:53
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Quote: "Quote: "but I know a bloke who uses it all the time, because all he needs is to be able to go on the net and download music and pictures (He works for a choir), so it does everything he needs"

He could do all that with a netbook though, for half the price, and still have a keyboard to type on. Just saying! (He was had!)
"


, but I want a shiny apple fruit logo on my tech, that's what makes paying the 200% mark up better

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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 22:13 Edited at: 19th Aug 2011 22:48
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Quote: "nor can every type of PC. "


name one please

Quote: "but I want a shiny apple fruit logo on my tech, that's what makes paying the 200% mark up better"


true fact of Apple compare any apple pc to a windows desktop pc and you will see for the same money you can and will have double the power and speed and well... ok ill hit the trump card here MMMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MMMMMMOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Applications to use and play with....... full stop... nuff said...

btw correction its actually 500% I heard

EDIT

Shall we not forget Flash? *nudge nudge, wink wink* (before you start talking about HTML5 please realise 2 things... where was HTML5 for the past decade and when is HTML5 coming? oh not for another half decade so shut up about that direction please}

EDIT

I do want to add my point here I will only buy an Ipad and an Iphone thingy (obviously second hand as I do not wish to pay OTO and support Naive Apple in any way... to use them as testing platforms for both any software I eventually mak in AppGameKit and also websites that i create just to see how they appear. in regards to Tablet computing I will get myself one of those Win 7 / 8 tablets when theyre out I know theyre running on a different kernel so that might deter me from developing for them unless TGC comes up with one if their tricks which we all love I will however buy another Netbook to replace the one that was stolen from my home when I was burgled earlier this year, and obviously I will try to get ahold of an ION based netbook as well as a normal one for performance and compatibility benchmarking and testing and i will buy a laptop well 3 low mid and high range as well as keeping my Dell Mini5 Streak will also buy the 7 and possibly the 10 as well and also a bunch of other current market trend devices... just for testing on, I know AppGameKit will have virtual devices to test on, as well as other dev platforms but nothing beats the physical device with its qirkiness. anyway all this is future talk, who has the same ambition? of course when i have the additional devices anyone needing the support just ask me to test anything you might have I currently have the Dell Streak Mini5 so if anyone wants to test their AppGameKit app on it show me how and i shall support.

Also in regards to their use, tablet devices and i have had my fare share of them are extremely useful for minimal purposes albeit broken in terms of hardware restrictions {ie too much data on a website and the browser crashes - referring to smrt phones here}

I think this thread should dim down soon enough ^^

EDIT

Quote: "
+1 for lock
"


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DJ Almix
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 22:43
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+1 for lock.


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Accoun
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 22:47
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Quote: "

Shall we not forget Flash? *nudge nudge, wink wink* "

Shall we not forget the whole Adobe suite not working properly anymore after upgrading OSX to Lion? *nudge nudge, wink wink*


Make games, not war.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 22:49 Edited at: 19th Aug 2011 22:49
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@ Accoun

did you miss this part of my message?



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Accoun
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 23:11
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No. You're talking about the amount of applications. I'm talking about certain ones that WERE working on Macs before, DON'T work anymore and SHOULD work if someone's marketing his platform as "professionals' choice", as "computer for graphic professionals" or whatever Apple/fanboys say. You'd probably agree with me that f. ex. Photoshop, Premiere, Illustrator or Dreamwaver are quite popular among professionals (especially PS and DW) and the fact that they don't work properly is a big problem.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 19th Aug 2011 23:35 Edited at: 19th Aug 2011 23:39
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Well you know you can not blame Adobe for the problems... heres an idea send SJ an email... expect no reply in a kabillion centuries. however keep peeled for one of his pointless stupifying cultish theatricals lol sorry I meant one of his product launch presentations... sounds like a cult master if you asked me... {looks down road ... oh Apple Culture IS a cult culture... how did I miss that one?}

Eitherway your problem is not with Adobe Systems its with SJ... go figure...

Eitherway Hi there Accoun first time I have met you heres a coffee to help us be friends

Don't get me wrong though... if Apple ever made anything original in terms of OS... I might consider buying something to put in the corner... but I only respect Apple as being a Developer of sorts other than that I have no personal value and to be honest most designers I know have moved to Windows for the extensibility in hardware and power.
However with the creation of AppGameKit I may possibly begin creating applications for AppleMac urm tigress OS's if I can figure out what a G5 or G1 million is... Air? isnt that something you breath? sorry but yeah you get what I am trying to say here... I am not one to shun Apple... just saying it has no added value to me whatsoever at present... I stand on the same pivot with Linux here too. so dont call me biased, I have tried everything out there and comparisoned... Windows takes chunk of Pro's. I am not one to ctiticise without first trying, therefore i have the right to my critical views...

Anyway I hope creating for Apple with AppGameKit will be simple and straightforward... I will buy a Mac thing once I begin with AGK. I just hope Apple doesnt look at what I create and do a Lodys on me.

EDIT

Sorry feeling as though I may have double posted... is Accoun on Moderation?

EDIT

Ignore that big I thought his post was a Google Ad

EDIT

Feeling as though i might have misunderstood Accoun... I figure your not an Apple eater... sorry User?

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Airslide
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 00:41
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Of the people I know with tablets, most of them bought it for one of two reasons - the battery life or the weight.

I can't speak for the iPad keyboard, but I've become rather adept at using the touch keyboards on my HTC Droid Incredible and iPod Touch. It still isn't anything compared to typing on a normal keyboard, but from my understanding if you really need it you can get wireless keyboards for the iPad and some of the Android tablets have docks or a slide-out.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a tablet because it really fits the way people want to use a laptop but really shouldn't - sitting in bed, for example (you can use a laptop, but you'd better prop it up on something like a tray or you'll clog up your fans or burn your lap). I can't speak for netbooks but I've never found them that appealing. If I want something small and versatile then I don't want the extra bulk and inconvienence of it being two foldable parts; I can use an iPad while standing.


As for the Mac vs. PC conversation that somehow popped up in here, that should probably stop. Some people like one, some like the other. The thread is about tablets.
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Plystire
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 00:43
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Is it just me or is Apple intentionally denying support for Adobe products on their platforms recently?


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 01:25
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mind you if you could load Win7 on Ipad... as a native OS, I might have gotten one by now... would love to code in DBPro on one... cant wait for the Windows Tablets... I know theyre reworked editions of windows... but there are some running on x86 I even heard of an x64 tablet!!!!!!! I am all for one if they offer the same specifications as a netbook only in urm tablet form lol

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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 01:27 Edited at: 20th Aug 2011 01:29
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Quote: "Is it just me or is Apple intentionally denying support for Adobe products on their platforms recently?"


YES


EDIT

Shoe sorry for double post

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 02:45 Edited at: 20th Aug 2011 03:11
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Quote: "Quote: "nor can every type of PC. "

name one please"


There's PCs out there where the only parts you can upgrade is the RAM and HDD, whilst they are upgrades but the Macs people claim can't be upgraded can receive the same upgrades, so if 'RAM' and 'HDD space' isn't considered an upgrade on a Mac, then there are PCs that can't be upgraded. My ThinkPad can have its RAM upgraded and its HDD too, but I can't upgrade the CPU and I can't upgrade the graphics. At least this is what I was told when I was asking pre-purchase questions about my laptop.

Also, All-In-One PCs aren't as upgradeable as Desktop PCs, basically you can upgrade the RAM and that's about it. An iMac is an All-In-One PC, Mac Books are Laptops, Mac Book Airs are essentially ultra-slim netbooks (with solid state hard drives), MacMinis are Mini PCs and they're all faced by similar limitations as their PC equivalents.

Then you've got MacPros , which are Mac Desktop PCs so it's better to use these for Mac vs PC because when people talk about PCs they're using desktops to compare, these are probably more upgradeable than a lot of PCs out there - the lowest MacPro model will accept up to 32gb RAM, even if you only buy it with 3gb, you can also buy a model that'll allow up to 64gb RAM. An Alienware Gaming PC that's £200 cheaper (which Alienware claims is their best Desktop ever) will limit you to 12gb in terms of upgrades. When you start comparing badass gaming rigs and the Mac Pro, the price difference isn't that grand for the hardware you get. Buy an Alienware rig for £1,800 or a MacPro for £2,000, you'll be able to upgrade the ram a lot further on the £2,000 MacPro. Also, start comparing other tech you'll see both are very powerful computers. Except, the £2000 MacPro isn't Apple's best model, it's their lowend MacPro. The trouble is people are only fixated on spec when comparing prices, I have a ThinkPad SL510, if I were to have gotten the T Series equivalent then I would have paid more, this is because the T-Series aren't as cheaply made and are more durable. Spec isn't everything, just ask my dead Acer gaming laptop that only cost me £700, when other laptops of the same spec were a lot more expensive.

I think if anything the trouble with Apple is that they don't produce products for the cheaper consumer market. Boxxtech are like that too, they produce expensive PCs aimed at providing a lot of power for artists, but you won't see one sat on the shelf in PC world.


Quote: "Don't get me wrong though... if Apple ever made anything original in terms of OS"


Because obviously Linux and Windows are very original.

Quote: "{looks down road ... oh Apple Culture IS a cult culture... how did I miss that one?}"


Just as much as anti-Apple culture is a cult culture.

When people mention Apple there's a sudden change in the air, people suddenly become fanatical about how much they hate Apple, often or not making unfounded, unresearched and untrue claims about their products and their computers, a lot of them would actually be dispelled if they simply browsed Apple's website. And I'm yet to meet a full-on Apple fanboy, but I encounter a great deal of Apple-haters and when I see them, I don't see how people can complain about Apple's fanboys (especially considering it's the haters doing the moaning). Apple-haters seem very arrogant on the topic of 'Apple' and do everything they possible can to badmouth them and what they do, regardless of whether or not what they're saying is true. From how Apple fanboy's are described there is no difference.

So yeah...cult culture.



I am neither a hater nor a fanboy. I accept that people will have their preferences and most importantly...you don't HAVE to buy anything from Apple, they've not monopolized the market, I hate to use insults or badmouth anybody, but I find the whole 'LOLAPPLESUX' culture pathetic.

I'm not trying to flame, but I do find the need to point out the problems with this anti-apple culture.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 03:33 Edited at: 20th Aug 2011 03:37
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I never said I literally hated Apple just dont like SJ

anyway lets get back on topic Apple has had a bite into this thread long enough

EDIT

oooh I am referring however to custom build pc's vs G5 thingies ^^ I never buy off the shelf but there you go... thats something you can not do with an Apple... heres an Idea why dont they give it for free as it only works on their hardware??? anyway lets stay on topic I am not a hater nor a cult hater just have My strong views as does any other and like I said I just do not find any benefit from Apple until it has a value to me... as goes anything else. {I hope developing for AppleOS will be interesting on AppGameKit!}

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 03:55
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I haven't read all the posts so I hope we're still on the same topic

I had a netbook that I was using for my study, which at that time involved Java programming and designing UC diagrams. What I struggled with was the extremely small screen real estate and the fact that Windows Basic could only mirror displays (sucked...) but the battery life on this thing was amazing! I did find myself frequently resorting back to my PC for coding and anything that really required a larger screen. Still handy to have a computer that small though for taking around, I do a lot of repairs and mods for game consoles at my previous work and it was brilliant to have all the guides software and drivers on such a portable machine, and I didn't have to take a the power cable in cause it would last a whole day on battery!

Then I got an iPad...

I didn't use my netbook for 3 months since having the iPad. I was using the iPad for almost everything, lecture notes, lecture videos, films, music, web browsing etc... I even found a diagram app that worked fantastically for my UC diagrams and while I couldn't compile any code on the iPad I did have an editor that would highlight the code and allow you to go over it and make changes. The screen was the exact same size as the netbook (10") but the apps were designed around this one screen size. My netbook has now moved on to my Mum who loves it's portability and I use my iPad and Beast PC and MacBook for everything else.

Netbooks certainly do have there uses and I wouldn't go as far as Steve Jobs and say they're useless but after experiencing both the netbook and tablet I can see them both being useful machine types depending on your needs. I choose the tablet

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Eminent
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 04:09
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I don't really mind Apple products, I just REALLY hate their marketing division. Those dumb commercials from a couple years ago are arrogant as hell, I mean I know that to be successful as a company, you have to lie about how you're the best, but DICE doesn't go and say Infinity Ward games are more worthless than turds.


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MrValentine
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 04:19
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I you Eminent

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 20th Aug 2011 05:33
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Quote: "
He could do all that with a netbook though, for half the price, and still have a keyboard to type on. Just saying! (He was had!) "


But it's really light, small, and he can flip it out and turn it on in a second.

Also the typing is silent

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