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Geek Culture / Anonymous

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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 01:46
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The internet group anonymous are infamous for their attacks on websites such as paypal during Operation Avenge Assange but they was not responsible for the PSN hack,

What is your opinion on anonymous and what they do?


Dont start a flame war.

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 01:55
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They're self entitled idiots. Who are they to say what companies should and shouldn't be allowed to do?

A man will one day wear a tophat in glasgow on a sunny day juggeling grapes while humming the jurrasic park theme tune.
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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 01:59
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I could not agree more! I am also glad this is not against the AUP as i thought it was and was very reluctant to post

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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AutoBot
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:02 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 02:03
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Quote: "Location: Anonymous"

Rather suspicious if you ask me.

But who was in charge of the PSN hack anyway?


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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:04
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@autobot Ahem errm yeah

I dont know, all i can say is anonymous wasnt responsible (for once )

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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Wolf
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:15
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I actually like 'em



-Wolf

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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:17 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 02:30
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EDIT: I agree, science and anonymous are not exactly freinds why is this?

(i made it less religeony

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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Vent
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:27
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The Anon-Scientology thing could be against the AUP since it involves religion.

Anyway, as for my opinion on Anonymous, they do some good (ie: against the Westboro Baptist Church) and some bad.

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Wolf
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:30 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 02:30
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Yeah! We can't flame on Scientology here without violating the AUP.

@Johnski: Nevermind! XD



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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:31 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 02:36
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I am not hack, i am my ol cheery self and i cant realy say whether i am or not.

and i can tell this is edging ever closer to violating the AUP

''dont cross that line boy.''

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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Wolf
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:36 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 02:37
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That figures

Actually, it doesn't

oh what the heck! I'm too tired now...I get some sleep.



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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 02:37
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indeed, i have no idea what 'fiquers' but yeah anyway

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 03:27
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I didn't know about them until I read this thread. Turns out it's nothing more than a group (or subculture) of sad little people that have nothing better to do than to grief other people by various means, with a strong sentiment of self-entitlement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)



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OutdoorGamer
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 03:31
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They say they try to protect and help gamers. However, all they do is hurt the major companies and in turn, they charge us more for everything.

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thenerd
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 03:34
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Quote: "They're self entitled idiots. Who are they to say what companies should and shouldn't be allowed to do?
"

This.

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Indicium
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 04:04 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 04:31
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Quote: "They're self entitled idiots. Who are they to say what companies should and shouldn't be allowed to do?"


Based on the events of Sony alone, I like them.

EDIT: After reading about it further, taking account details is way too far. I don't like them.

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crispex
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 04:09
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"Anonymous" isn't even really an "organized" group. It's just a umbrella term used to try to sound and look elite, when in reality it's usually individuals who complete the hacks, or small hack teams it's never really anything massively organized. Anyone who claims they are a member of "Anonymous" normally is just some skiddie trying to take credit for a hack.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 09:59 Edited at: 29th Apr 2011 05:12
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Make fun of them if you will, but they are a proof of how humans can work together without organising themselves into hierarchies and having to follow any chain of command. They show that simply by working together, rather than each individual being told what to do, works! You can't take that credit away from them. Each individual doesn't do much, and granted they may be low-lives, but together they can do some pretty serious Mod Edit.


Quote: "They're self entitled idiots. Who are they to say what companies should and shouldn't be allowed to do?"


The same people as anyone else. You think some people should have more say than others? That's elitism. That's the reason Anonymous exists in the first place.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 10:17
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Quote: "Make fun of them if you will, but they are a proof of how humans can work together without organising themselves into hierarchies and having to follow any chain of command. They show that simply by working together, rather than each individual being told what to do, works!"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior



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Thraxas
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 10:52
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Quote: "You think some people should have more say than others?"


I think a company can run itself in any way it sees fit. And no-one has any right to tell them otherwise!

Even though the Westbro Baptist Church (or whatever they're called) has beliefs I disagree with, I don't believe that Anonymous has any right to target and attack them.

What/who gives them the right to police the world? Believe what we believe, do what we say or we will punish you...

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Quik
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 11:47
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the concept of being anonym on the internet is just amazing, just simply amazing, i love it, HOWEVER, being anonymous on the internet and doing terrorist acts, is NOT okay and is in all due basic the reason to why we are being less and less anonymous on the internet and in real life.


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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 15:38
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How can you discuss if a "group" with political motivations is correct or not, without getting into politics?


Also, does anyone else find the whole "spokesperson" and "guy falkes mask" stuff retarded?


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David R
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 15:43 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 15:49
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Quote: "Even though the Westbro Baptist Church (or whatever they're called) has beliefs I disagree with, I don't believe that Anonymous has any right to target and attack them."


I don't think you've seen enough of Westboro if you're saying that.

Anyone who pickets funerals deserves everything that's coming their way (as well as the fact they're racist and raving anti-semites to boot)

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IanM
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 16:11
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@Thraxas,
I agree with your standpoint up to a point, but I also believe that no company has any right to tell me what I can do with something I bought from them (Sony, PS3), or where to spend my money (Visa, Mastercard, Paypal refusing payments to Wikileaks).

Personally, I'd simply withdraw my support for these companies (something I have already done with Sony), but I can see why people would take it a step further to get their point across ... not that I support such action myself.

@Quik,
Quote: "HOWEVER, being anonymous on the internet and doing terrorist acts, is NOT okay"

If I want to protest something that my government is doing, I can organise/join a protest, which may also include things like sit-ins.

DOS attacks are effectively sit-ins on the Internet.

Equating them to terrorist actions devalues the use of the word.

@David R,
So free speech, unless you find someone saying something that you find offensive?

Personally, I find them to be a bunch of brainless, thoughtless, offensive prats with too much time on their hands. That said, I still support their right to NOT be silenced even though I find no value (or maybe even negative value) in anything they say.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 16:22
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Quote: "DOS attacks are effectively sit-ins on the Internet.

Equating them to terrorist actions devalues the use of the word."


If you're doing a dos attack I'd say that's more like trespassing.

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kamac
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 16:29
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Actually, i have no opinion about them. First i thought they're good, but i don't know now.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 16:34
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Quote: "If you're doing a dos attack I'd say that's more like trespassing."


If you consider protesting in a public place as trespassing, yes.



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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 17:10
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Quote: "If you consider protesting in a public place as trespassing, yes."


A server is not public property though. There is no right to access. They can block your access legally, but you can circumvent that block by taking over other computers. I guess if you had full rights to all the computers contacting the server, maybe that's legal option. I dunno if I'd risk it in court

I still think it's more like tresspassing. It's fine to setup a website saying so and so sucks. It's lame to go and chain yourself to the door.

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Van B
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 17:32
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A DOS attack is more than trespassing...

When you tresspass, you tend not to prevent other people from entering, tend not to cause any damage, there are little financial implications in trespassing.

DOS is more like a protest, because it has an impact on the 'victims' ability to function. If someone protests outside your door, then the chances are your business will be affected, just like an online company suffering a DOS attack. Really, a DOS attack is akin to protestors barricading your door, because it's not like you can still function as a company. Legally hackers do not have a leg to stand on, and it has to stay that way.

Protestors annoy me though, at least in the UK, because the people most likely to protest are the people least likely to contribute anything useful. There needs to be an uprising, from the average Joes, people with a job, house, family, bills and a grip on reality. Hacker groups would love for you all to see them as some sort of 'freedom' organisation, set on releasing the online world from the tyranny of Microsoft and Sony. No. Hackers are in this game for selfish reasons, they are being paid by underhand marketting companies. At the end of the day, it's us average Joes who suffer - big corporations like Sony will get by, they will not starve, but you might if some hacker sells on your credit card details.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 17:37 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 17:37
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I think barricading the door to a business would be tresspassing in most cases. (unless the business did not ask you to leave).

In the US, you can protest in public areas, not on private property. The internet, while seemingly public, is made up of private servers, private routers, and private wires run by private entities.

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David R
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 17:38 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 17:40
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Quote: "@David R,
So free speech, unless you find someone saying something that you find offensive?"


There is a big difference between free speech and hate speech. I'm certain if someone were picketing and shouting for your family to be murdered, you would not consider it just another instance of free speech.

There is a line, and I think picketing funerals with hateful messages certainly crosses it. It's not as if they're trying to even convey some kind of concept or point. The messages are basically "Ha ha you're dead, we're really pleased"

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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 17:42
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Quote: "DOS is more like a protest, because it has an impact on the 'victims' ability to function. If someone protests outside your door, then the chances are your business will be affected, just like an online company suffering a DOS attack. Really, a DOS attack is akin to protestors barricading your door, because it's not like you can still function as a company. Legally hackers do not have a leg to stand on, and it has to stay that way."


More or less how I feel.



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the_winch
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 18:05
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Aren't most of the DOS attacks just publicity stunts? Taking down the RIAA website for example just pisses off the site owner and gets a news story. It doesn't really have any effect on the daily operations of the company. How many legitimate daily visitors do these corporate websites even have?

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 18:09
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Quote: "Aren't most of the DOS attacks just publicity stunts? Taking down the RIAA website for example just pisses off the site owner and gets a news story. It doesn't really have any effect on the daily operations of the company. How many legitimate daily visitors do these corporate websites even have?"


When I worked for a large online retailer and their website was attacked they would often estimate damages in the thousands or tens of thousands depending.

When it comes to eCommerce, if you're site's not up at the time the customer wants to purchase, it's very likely a lost sale.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 23:10
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Also... DOS attacks are usually NOTHING like protests, because BOT NETS are the "people" sitting in.



Man... every time I start to write something up about my opinion on this subject, I realize I don't know enough about this or that...

There are two things for sure: at least some of the people related to anon have noble intentions, and a lot of the people related to anon are pretty dang smart.


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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 23:29
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Quote: "Also... DDoS attacks are usually NOTHING like protests, because BOT NETS are the "people" sitting in."

I guess it depends how it's conducted. If it every member of Anon decided to disrupt the target by SYN flooding or whatever method then that would be considered a protest. But a single person using a bot net comprised of totally unaware people - yes I would agree with you and say that does not constitute a full protest at all.


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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 23:31 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 23:32
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That's like one person setting up a load of cardboard cut-outs of people outside parliament and calling it a protest and then sending the bill for the cardboard to the person who's image is on it.

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Johnski
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Posted: 28th Apr 2011 23:35 Edited at: 28th Apr 2011 23:36
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Anonymous was NOT responsible for the sony attacks, Yes they announced it but then we called they off.

We are Anonymous, we are legion, we do not forgive, we do not forget, united as one, divided by zero, expect us.
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 01:46 Edited at: 29th Apr 2011 01:47
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@ The Wilderbeast
I'm not aware of strict difference between "denial of service" and "distributed denial of service". Obviously DDoS is a denial of service attack that is distributed, but really, who in their right mind thinks they can DoS a server with one computer? (so if a DOS is a DDOS that isn't distributed, DOS attacks are pretty much worthless)


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Interplanetary Funk
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 03:16
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If you send enough requests from one pc it can still DoS the server, but using multiple bots is more effective

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 03:26
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To me Anonymous are just protesters that aren't as fun to watch as PETA protesters. The difference is Anon actually get things done.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 05:39
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I can understand the protest side of things, but I don't think they have a moral high ground to stand on. As a collective, they've not just used hacking as measure to offer protest than to do damage.

Harassment I feel is a serious issue, particularly when it means acquiring private information - such as where employees live and using it as an opportunity for harassment. Like with Sony, because they disagreed with Sony suing somebody for home-brew. Whatever happened to good old fashioned boycotting? It's legal, it prevents a company from earning money, if you draw attention the fact you're boycotting your message can be made clear and it doesn't involve harassment or invading people's privacy. If they're losing money, that means they've got no choice to act.

And what about this?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/720115/no-cussing-teen-faces-net-hate-campaign

Death threats, bogus pornography and pizza deliveries - that's just harassment and as much as you think a no cussing club is stupid, did he and his family really deserve it?

Then pornographic videos tagged as children's videos on YouTube? Then attacks on the Epilepsy Foundation with attempts to cause fits - though some participants of 'Chanology' suggest it's not affiliated.

I recognise that there's members who have a cause, then there's those who do it 'for the lulz', but that's the problem with 'Anonymous' it's pretty much an anarchic group of hackers and with no leader or collective cause, there's no measure of control and I can't support a group like that. I'm all for protest and standing for what you believe in, but there are lines I draw.

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