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3 Dimensional Chat / A Genuine First Attempt

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JZ28
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 09:36 Edited at: 29th Apr 2011 09:37
Hello all

As some of you may or may not know I've been here for a while. never really producing anything of much interest. even to this day i have pretty much no understanding of how to write code, and very little understanding of how to make models. I want to change that.

Ive been looking at images of all my old content on these forums and noticed that my knowledge of 3d really grinds to a stop when it comes to anything more complex than a cylinder. I haven't really made any complex models. nor have i even attempted top rig or animate anything.

I want to start making some great models and maybe even some great games. To do this im going to have to learn all this stuff. which is why ive spent some time making this model. He will be my first attempt at an animated character. I just thought it would be cool to get some crit from the TGC community and maybe even some good tips. Once i finish texturing this thing i have absolutely no gameplan. I need to find something i can use to rig and animate this model and work from there.

Heres an image of what i have so far!



So yeah. let me know what you think!

http://sites.google.com/site/jordanz2010/

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lazerus
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 13:36 Edited at: 29th Apr 2011 13:37
This isnt a first attempt...
The wires are far to profesional for it to be a first attempt. The face has near perfect flow and proportion, you'v even included the correct neck definition and for someone who has never animated included near perfect deformation loops for the arms, legs, shoulders, jaw.

So ethier your downplaying your skill, you followed a very very good tutorial or the other option which i hope it isnt. Any chance you can throw up what you've been following to make this fella?

Because if you did make this on your first attempt colour me jealous.

henry ham
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 14:05
i have to agree with lazerus i find it very hard to accept that that is your first attempt now did you make this from scratch or is it parts of other models chopshoped together ?

cheers henry

kamac
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 14:52
If you made it yourself without following a tut, i bow in front of you. But if you have posted someone's work ...

JZ28
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 22:01
Ill admit it. This isn't my first attempt at making a character and i was not feeling very good about my other work at the time. I should have mentioned the other attempts at characters that i have made. The reason i titled this thread as a genuine first attempt is because i have the intention to learn how to rig and animate it, not look for someone who will do it for me like i did in the past.

I have been following a couple tutorials another forum member provided to me, as well as tried to scoop up information on how other people did their character models.

"The third option" Which i think your thinking piracy, is not an option. I know not to try and use someone else's work without their permission.

http://sites.google.com/site/jordanz2010/
defiler
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 00:20
@ Henry: Sad thing is, i read a book on how Epic Games created GOW2, they have a intire folder dedictaed to different meshes like hands, arms, feet, legs, heads, chests, etc. And they put them together and then modify the mesh to suit the character they are creating.

Current Project: Lost Contact: Chapter 1
lazerus
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 01:10 Edited at: 30th Apr 2011 01:16
Can you post up your references/tutorial you followed? I'd like to add it to my reference lists for future note's


Quote: "@ Henry: Sad thing is, i read a book on how Epic Games created GOW2, they have a intire folder dedictaed to different meshes like hands, arms, feet, legs, heads, chests, etc. And they put them together and then modify the mesh to suit the character they are creating."


Bahaha what? seriously? how is that sad?

There made for purpose.
Base meshing in company and using meshs you have a copyright over is no problem when making games. After all you cant expect to make each mesh individialy from scratch when you have deadlines to meet. I have several base meshs ive made myself to use and play with.
Say you need several varitations of a character, do you make each one singely or use premade parts to change and edit the styles where 80% of the mesh is already done and ready?

I can guarantee that every AAA game uses similar techniques and methods in making the the characters and props.



henry ham
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 02:58
Quote: "Ill admit it. This isn't my first attempt at making a character and i was not feeling very good about my other work at the time. I should have mentioned the other attempts at characters that i have made. The reason i titled this thread as a genuine first attempt is because i have the intention to learn how to rig and animate it, not look for someone who will do it for me like i did in the past.

I have been following a couple tutorials another forum member provided to me, as well as tried to scoop up information on how other people did their character models.

"The third option" Which i think your thinking piracy, is not an option. I know not to try and use someone else's work without their permission."


ok so you made it yourself ,thats good as i thought that you had done somthing like i did on the image below & welded 2 base meshs together to make a new mesh.strange though that the arm on my mesh follows the edge flow of your almost exactly & the groin area on yours looks almost the same to.still at least the head mesh is different although i think i know where you got that from to.



cheers henry

Camouflage Studios
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 03:54
maybe he used your pics as reference. didnt necessarily mean he stole it. no need to be accusatory

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 05:13
Quote: "i thought that you had done somthing like i did on the image below & welded 2 base meshs together to make a new mesh."


When I saw the image in the OP, I thought he was using someone else's character mesh as a guide (the wire), and modeling ("tracing") over the outline with his own mesh (the textured torso). That's the way that I first started practicing character modeling

Kravenwolf

lazerus
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 11:58 Edited at: 30th Apr 2011 11:59
I knew i recoginsed the mesh My my its been a while since ive seen someone use it, nearly what 8 months?

@Kravenwolf, look at the thumbs, the poly ratio is exactly the same, even tracing wouldnt have such good poly flow.

So here we call it a day, your not the first and wont be the last to use this mesh.

Because im in no mood to be an arse;

Character modeling.

Realistic Face Modeling

Read up, practice if your caught stealing again expect no love from me.

henry ham
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Posted: 30th Apr 2011 13:12
Quote: "maybe he used your pics as reference. didnt necessarily mean he stole it. no need to be accusatory"


oh come on mate you have been modeling long enough to know its not as simple as that,also im not saying he stole it just that he has used parts of others models,base meshs are fine but the clue is in the name they should only be a base to start from then edited to make your final model not stuck together to make a model.

cheers henry

BiggAdd
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Posted: 4th May 2011 08:24
JZ28 - Do you have anything to confess?

DarkJames
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Posted: 6th May 2011 01:52
I trully dont think he stole it :/

did you gave away that base Henry?

Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 6th May 2011 06:41
Eh, I don't believe he stole it either.

I can't tell any resemblance in the arms or the groin, except for very small coincidences...

I mean, there's only so many different ways you can make a poly efficient crotch, right? The arm just looks completely different to me.

Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th May 2011 08:13
@henry ham

Hey my friend, sorry to say this but there is a lot of diffrences to your modle and his as the edge flow goes, there is some similaritys but that is all they are.It also seems his has more edges then yours, now the arms look alot alike, almost the same, and the hands do also. So he could have pieced the whole thing together like you said but I hate saying this as the whole thing could be his.

tutts are a dime a dozen in this day and adge and if all you needed to do is follow them correctly then Im shure the modles would turn out with real good flow.If he is following tutts and am coming out with great looking modles then we all should be greatfull for him not bash him.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
Quik
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Posted: 6th May 2011 08:29
@JZ28 can we see a full wireframe? without the cloth texture?


[Q]uik, Quiker than most
BiggAdd
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Posted: 6th May 2011 14:08
Hands look identical though.

Quik
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Posted: 6th May 2011 14:16
definitly, i'd still like to see the full body, without texture..

also i dont think the crotch area matters in anyway, thats a very common way of doing it...


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lazerus
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Posted: 6th May 2011 14:17 Edited at: 6th May 2011 14:19
N/A posts above me now XD


The fact that he said its his first character model then later admitted it wasnt,
The fact he said
Quote: "nor have i even attempted top rig or animate anything."
Then included PERFECT deformation techniques in places that are extremely difficult to do them in without a bloody good understanding of deformation and model structure. Mainly the neck structure, since as you can see it's defined pefectly. The sudden drop in quality from the neck down is also a good indication of cut&paste. Or i dont know. The carbon copy of the entire base mesh thats been used several times in the past as 'new work' ?

And hell ignore all that for a moment and think why hasnt he posted back defending his work? If i had worked my arse off to make a decent model then i'd sure as hell be tearing into anyone who said i ripped it. Especially since a model of this standard would take a good few hours, (mostly the face) to get spot on. Then all the hours hes supposidly practiced to get it right.

Wake up people. As much as i'd really like to see someone produce this stright off the bat and become a modeling genius, It's never going to happen.

mgarand
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Posted: 6th May 2011 14:34
i agree with Lazerus and Henry, this looks like cut and paste work

Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th May 2011 20:56
@lazerus

Mabey he is not like you? mabey he fells he does not need to defend nothing,mabey he fells its non your buisness,lol,just becouse he does not do what you would proves nothing.

I myself can reproduce this with no problems at all with a good tut. You miss my point here and that is unless we know for a fact he coppied and pasted the mesh together its wrong to accuse him.

Why? there is no proof to it. do some more investigating on the matter if you care that much about it,come up with more proof then this then accuse him.

Im not saying it is his, so please dont confuse what I am saying here,im not defending him, im just saying we do not know for shure, so dont accuse unless we know 100 percent.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
JZ28
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Posted: 6th May 2011 21:29 Edited at: 6th May 2011 21:30
Heres a wire frame to show that the models are not the same



http://sites.google.com/site/jordanz2010/

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lazerus
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Posted: 6th May 2011 21:49 Edited at: 6th May 2011 21:51
recinded for now;

Never refreshed before posting ''

BiggAdd
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Posted: 7th May 2011 02:10 Edited at: 7th May 2011 02:10
If there is anything you want to say JZ28, now will be the time to say it.



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lazerus
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Posted: 7th May 2011 21:44 Edited at: 7th May 2011 21:46
So there is still a few sane people here. Thank you Biggadd.

Since it is the same mesh, at least he went out of his way to change the torso, a little, but next time just say you used a goddam base mesh. It's not like were going to rip your head off and we always find out, Always. For instance;

The base mesh is called Arshbase, and is widely used for teaching beginners on the basic poly flow of a human. Arsh used it mainly on polycount, CgHub and a few other professional sites he frequents and it was accompanied by a short tutorial and go over of modeling process's.

Now you could have saved so much crap and got a heap of support and feedback but you've pretty much ruined it. So admit to it now, we'll eventually get over it and start helping you again. Deal?

zeroSlave
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Posted: 8th May 2011 07:54


I missed reading your posts, laz.

Quote: "Heres a wire frame to show that the models are not the same"

Are parts of the model the same?

The forearms and hands are remarkably similar, but in all, it looks like a cool model. Even if it is chopped together, you got the proportions down pretty well.

My green thumb grew the tree my Trojan War horse was crafted from. With roses in our pockets we rally round the tombstones. Ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
BiggAdd
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Posted: 9th May 2011 19:56
He has been banned for 5 months. There is no doubt in my mind that parts of the model were taken from henry's model.

Mesh similarities like this don't happen by coincidence.

xilith117
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Posted: 10th May 2011 07:02
JZ28- don't give up on your modeling endeavors or TGC, just learn to make your own work and try again. It has been my experience that they are a great society ( if not a little quick to assume piracy ) who would be more than willing to forgive you. I just don't want to see you quit because you made a mistake and said a few false statements.

@lazerus and I thought you were critisizing of my model! i suppose mine WAS at least original work though...

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