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Geek Culture / Matrix Revolutions Plot leak!

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kingius
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 13:21
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The end of the third Matrix film has been leaked and it involves a game over screen and two little boys in an arcade, one who looks like a young keanu reeves and one who looks like a tiny agent smith, Young Smith turns to Young Neo and says "Next time, you be the bad guy"

How cheesey!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 15:06
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Yeah - right...


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Van B
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 15:13
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That actually sounds quite fitting, I mean it's not unusual for Hollywood to make an amazing movie then squeeze out two matching turds and call them sequels. I watched Reloaded and it just annoyed me at the end, it's really just a slideshow of special effects now, I'm not exactly teetering on the brink to see the last movie.

I reckon the last episode of LOTR will be the real blockbuster this christmas, the producers did a great job on Two Towers, I thought it was actually better than the original, something I haven't seen happen since Aliens.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 15:18
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It would certainly be a clever thing to do - just dont see it happening. The other rumour going around is that there is more than one Matrix, and Zion is in the second one.


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kingius
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 15:23
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I think the big surprise is supposed to be that it was all just a computer game in a twist upon a twist upon a twist kind of way. AKA Hollywood irony
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greenlig
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 18:13
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yeah, the zion being a second matrix is whate we are all expecting..cause i mean, whats more depressing than being stuck in it AGAIN!!

I got best and fairest for soccer WHOOHOOO!
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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 22:50
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Computer game...now that would be a huuuge disappointment

You can't make a trilogy as big as the Matrix and kill it with such a crap punchline. Perhaps Jeremy Beadle should jump out and shout "You've been game for a laugh!"

As for Reloaded...I think if you understand the last scene and what it actually means, you can't help but love the whole concept. Is fate pre-programmed, or can you beat it?

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HZence
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Posted: 16th Oct 2003 23:40
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I seriously doubt it.

Before Reloaded was released, tons of people thought they had the script for it. They were wrong...it was a fake. There was also a "plot leak" that Cipher would return in reloaded.

If this is the ending of the Matrix, I'll disown the trilogy and just stick to the first one...the best one...the original.

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Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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spooky
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 01:10
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All you Americans, as you will almost definately get to see film first, I beg of you, PLEASE don't spoil it for us British and post the plot here!!!

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HZence
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 01:38
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No, we won't, they announced they're debuting it at the same time all over the world. Check the news on their website.

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 03:05
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'As for Reloaded...I think if you understand the last scene and what it actually means, you can't help but love the whole concept. Is fate pre-programmed, or can you beat it?'

I understand what I means, and I don't like it. I was comtemplating that concept when I was 7 years old, as I think many of us here were. It dosen't take a philosophical genius to raise the question. Personally I think it was handeled very poorly. Boo.

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Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 08:14
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I dobt it that is just soooooo sad of an ending, comeon we are talking about the matrix here, but a few endings that I wont want to happen:

Your "game" one.
Matrix within a matrix.
Neo wakes up infront of the monitor (all a dream)
It doesnt end they use some excuse to get a TV series that ends up being as cheezy as buffy the vampire slayer.

If one of those are the ending ill be hosting my own personall "lobby scene" in the WB offices.

The best one would be probably either no twist it all turns out good or the good guys loose I would be happy with either of those. But I know that most people wouldnt like to be told that the matrix idea that some people worship) was all fake and just something stupid like a game.

Now if you excuse me I have to play with the new smileys:

weeeeee

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
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Eric T
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 09:12
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I heard a romour that The matrix they are in just flashes its self...and reloads in a blank new matrix...

But who would belive that

A Dream is a Dream unless it is Real
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Dave J
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 10:13
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Quote: "Two Towers, I thought it was actually better than the original, something I haven't seen happen since Aliens."


I thought Bad Boys II was significantly better then the original... then again, I also thought Reloaded was better then The Matrix also.


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 11:25
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Nah, Bad Boys 2, with all the spinning cars and dead body humour! - I prefered the first one, it was much funnier. The thing that annoyed me was the captain, I get annoyed at little niggly things in movies - In the first movie, like all great cop films, the captain was on the verge of a heart attack because of them, then in the seconds he was like ''Damn you crazy guys, but do what it takes to save the day''. Cheesy to the point where you can't take it seriously anymore. If you ask me, I'd love to see a movie without a single piece of CGI in it, that used traditional techniques, 'cos I don't think I can be bothered with a movie that spends most of it's budget on predictable OTT car flipping crap.


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spooky
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 12:45
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Advert in The Sun today - Matrix Revolutions - box office opens TODAY - film starts November 5th 2PM.

Better get down to your local and book that ticket!

If your mansion house needs haunting, just call Rentaghost!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 14:52
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Na - wait a week...


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Jess T
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 15:08
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Quote: "Two Towers, I thought it was actually better than the original, something I haven't seen happen since Aliens"


HAHAHAHA, Aliens? the sequels better? pffft...

That series of movies just got crappyer as it went. The only good thing that ever came out of those, was that the main character chick died.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 15:26
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Nothing wrong with Alien Resurrection - very good film.


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 15:36
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Aliens is one of the best films ever made, and Alien Ressurection was pretty cool too, perhaps your too young to remember when it first came out and blew the sci-fi genre apart - but Alien3 was a lot of crap .

One thing about Matrix2, one of the Smiths 'posesses' someone and makes it to zion - how would that be possible outside of a matrix?, I reckon the matrix within a matrix rumour might not be far off the mark.


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Jess T
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 16:34
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Hmm, i still reckon the Aliens were crapy, personal opinion though.
and that matrix in a matrix thing seems feasable, but ive seen a few movies like that

The 13th Floor

and another one that i cant remember...

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Dave J
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 16:50
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Quote: "Nah, Bad Boys 2, with all the spinning cars and dead body humour! - I prefered the first one, it was much funnier. The thing that annoyed me was the captain, I get annoyed at little niggly things in movies - In the first movie, like all great cop films, the captain was on the verge of a heart attack because of them, then in the seconds he was like ''Damn you crazy guys, but do what it takes to save the day''. Cheesy to the point where you can't take it seriously anymore. If you ask me, I'd love to see a movie without a single piece of CGI in it, that used traditional techniques, 'cos I don't think I can be bothered with a movie that spends most of it's budget on predictable OTT car flipping crap."


That paragraph just made me question whether you've seen either of the two movies. There was the same dead body humour in the first movie, with Martin Lawrence almost throwing up at the sight of a dead guy. The captain acted very similar to how he was in the original as well, the only difference is that now he had attended the 'therapy' session and his character had developed somewhat. Oh, and there was an absolute minimal use of CGI in Bad Boys II, the director especially wanted to make sure you couldn't tell it looked fake so he filmed the WHOLE car chase scene without using CGI once.


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 17:05
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Ok so dead bodies being thrown from a lorry, Will digging into chest cavaties and dead girls with big boobies were in the first movie too? - I know there was a dead guy joke in the first movie, but they went OTT with the sequel.

And the car chase, with the car transporter, the cars were literally flying at them - your telling me that wasn't CGI? - Are you telling me it did'nt remind you of Matrix Reloaded?

All I want is some originality, you seem to love every crappy movie released in the last 12 months! .


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Dave J
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 17:44 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 17:45
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Quote: "Ok so dead bodies being thrown from a lorry, Will digging into chest cavaties and dead girls with big boobies were in the first movie too? - I know there was a dead guy joke in the first movie, but they went OTT with the sequel."


Okay, they went a bit over the top there but it's not hard to overlook 2 or 3 scenes in a 2 hour movie.


Quote: "And the car chase, with the car transporter, the cars were literally flying at them - your telling me that wasn't CGI? - Are you telling me it did'nt remind you of Matrix Reloaded?"


Yep, there was no CGI used at all. They placed 6 cameras on the front of a car and had a stuntman drive it straight into every car they dropped so they could get some great genuine footage.


Quote: "All I want is some originality, you seem to love every crappy movie released in the last 12 months! ."


Yep, because people seem to only be able to criticize movies despite how good they are. Sure, Star Wars was good for it's time but if someone makes something like that today then people will just laugh in their face.


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 18:14
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I only critisize movies that annoy me, I firmly believe that directors get complacent as soon as a movie becomes a success and a sequel is decided upon, very easy to just extend a storyline and rely on other factors than originality.

I hope you don't think I critisize all movies, just sequels annoy me when I don't think they have the same spark as the original. I really enjoyed the first Bad Boys and Matrix movies - but they were original - for my £15 I want something that will grab my attention, otherwise I'll just go buy 3 classic movies for the same money.
My favourite movies are all still remembered and respected, you can't really tell how good a movie is until you let if mature for a few years - The Matrix is a good 3 or 4 years old now, and it's considered a masterpiece - in 3 or 4 years Reloaded won't be considered a masterpiece, a disappointment perhaps, for me at least.

Could the moderator that made this Flame Bait take it back off please, there's no ill feeling here, I respect everyones opinion as much as I enforce my right to disagree - I don't think either of us have been out of line.


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Arrow
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 18:33 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 18:34
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Bad Boyes to was ok, but that car chase did use CG. I agree that more movies need less CG.

I think the reason people are not as impressed with the second matrix movie is because A) it was expected, the first came out of nowhere, now people's expectations are high; and B) it made little sence. You got to remember that the Matirx was originally thought up as a comic book, plots are a bit longer. I'm sure once Revolutions coms out the Second movie will be a bit more liked. If the first movie got as much attention the second, they would have whipped on the storyline a bit quicker. They needed the hook to lurn in enough people so that they could share their story.

As for the Final instalment, I think after Neo had conntact with the Arcitech, he became more in touch with the matrix. Rember even outside of the matrix, it's still all around, like radiowaves or something. Perhaps Neo can now do a derect link to cetain aspects of the machine realim. Consider that the only difference between the the Matrix and the real world is that you know one isn't real. Neo learned that the real world has been shaped just like the Matrix, perhaps that knowlege has aloud him to exstend his abilities to the real world, kinda like psycics, this is a Sci-Fi movie.


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Dave J
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 18:43 Edited at: 17th Oct 2003 18:45
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I guess the point you're getting at is understandable but what you must remember is that it's still a sequel. They can't make it so different that it will end up being a new movie, and with a simple Cop Action film like Bad Boys this doesn't give them much room to expand it.

In my opinion Reloaded was quite fresh, we got a much larger look at Xion and the real world where as in the first movie we only really saw the Nebuchannezzar and the fields of slaves. Perhaps the problem they ran into was that they had already put Neo at a godlike state at the end of the first movie, they showed him come back to life, bend the walls, destroy an agent and fly off. This didn't leave much room for Neo to gradually get stronger in Reloaded which was one of the bigger problems.

If you look at sequels from a different perspective though, for instance, if the original didn't exist and you saw the sequel before the first movie then I think you'd agree it's a better movie.

Sorry if that's a little bit incoherent, I'm incredibly tired.


Quote: "Bad Boyes to was ok, but that car chase did use CG. I agree that more movies need less CG. "


Sorry mate, but there was no CG used in the car chase scene at all.


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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 19:01
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Exeat,
Every movie has CG in it.
The part where the car bounces right over their heads for example - for one thing, no way would the director even allow a trained stunt man to go anywhere near it, the insurance companies would'nt even consider it. Fair enough if they used real cars and really wrecked them, but there's no way it was filmed 'live' - the cars were obviously added in later, perhaps the director meant that nothing was modelled and added, like all the cars really did go through all that, just not live. The stunt driver with the cameras would have been in far too much danger for it to be allowed like you say. Not calling you a liar, I reckon the director is exagerating.

I don't thing I would have preferred reloaded - the attraction to the matrix wasn't bullet time special effects or PVC jumpsuits, it was the intelligence behind it, I mean it could actually be possible for this to happen, It was a fresh approach to the usual 'machines take over' recipe, like when Morpheus does his 'Your a freakin Battery' speech - with the old chairs on a perfect white backdrop - it's just great and original film making - it blew peoples minds.


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Jess T
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 19:11
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Van B
The scene in BB2 was all real, real time, live, no Computer Graphics at all (relating to the cars that is). That was the point in that scene, the director didnt want to do it, unless it was real, he didnt want another unreal effect.

I saw a behind the scene's thing on Showtime (the movie channell on subscriber TV) after BB1 where they showed the making of BB2, and you could see, it WAS real...

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Van B
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Posted: 17th Oct 2003 19:14
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So a spinning car bounced over the top of Martin Lawrence and Will Smith?

Bull.


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Dave J
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 06:05
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That was a blue screen effect, a blue screen isn't CG though.


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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 07:09
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CG = Computer Graphics. So they had a pastel artist with an easel fill in the bluescreen for them?

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Dave J
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 08:24 Edited at: 18th Oct 2003 08:24
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A blue screen simply runs the previous recorded footage straight to film as they record the actors. The most they could do on a computer is select what footage to run behind the actors.


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Jess T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 16:01
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See? No CG at all...

And anyway, it LOOKS real, isn't that the whole point?

Like, in Matrix Reloaded, in the scene when Neo was surrounded by Agent Smith's and he spun around with the pole, That was CG and you could tell it was, which really ruined it for me But in BB2 the cars were real and actually did do what you see. And it looked real, it gave it authenticity...

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Arrow
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 17:31
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The BB2 car chase did NOT look real to me, in fact after the use of the Cheesy bulet time (that was the slowest moving bullet ever, you could see Will Smith contenue to fall as it was leaving the barrel) I was looking for the CG actively. I hate ointless over use of CG.

As for the Neo vs 100 Smiths, I can't figue out why they used obvius CG when most of that fight was almost flawless.


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Jess T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 17:38
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Hmm, ok..

The part in the Neo vs Smith's fight that i thought to not seem real was when he was spinning around, his cloak looked like rubber, there were almost no ruffles in it, it was smooth and the way the Smith's moved when hit didn't seem real, it was like their arms were moving through honey, but the rest of their bodies weren't...

And to be totally honest, i haven't even seen BB2, i was just saying that they didn't use CG in that particular scene. Hehe...

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Van B
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 17:47
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That's my whole point entirely, If they'd used bluescreen methods instead of obvious computer models then the scene might have been amazing - but instead you spot the modelled scenes straight away - I mean they did'nt even keep the models far away from the camera. There's one part where the modelled Neo is real close to the camera and it's like a bullet time, great if you wanted to see how not to do an action scene.

IMO they should only use models when the actors would simply be in too much risk, not because doing it properly would take longer. And the skittle sound effect just cheesified the whole scene even more.

I thought that the BB2 car chase was pretty good as car chases go, just OTT that's all. It's funny though that with all the new technology, they still can't better the Mini's from the original Italian Job. I think the most original thing they can do nowadays with car chases is either not bother at all, or get them over quickly, I reckon we've all seen enough car chases for the time being.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 18:21
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I on;y watched the Matrix Reloaded last week, and I heard about all the crap computer graphic effects, so I was expecting a crappy film. But it was great IMO, and no one mentioned the great music during the CGI sequences. I thought it was a great movie, and I'm going to buy it on DVD. Sometimes Neo doesn't look like Neo, but I don't care about that. I loved the car crash sequences, especially jumping on the bonnet to wreck the car. I loved the scene where Neo fights 100's of guys. All great! Put it on my best films list.

Alien is all great except Alien 3!

Haven't seen Bad Boys. or 2.

As for the End of the Matrix 3... Video machine is not likely. That's more like Red Dwarf!

I think that Matrix 3 will leave another opening for Matrix 4. Perhaps a new machine, a God machine or something.

Pincho.
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TKF15H
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 19:08 Edited at: 18th Oct 2003 19:10
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I didn't see bad boys 1 or 2 so I won't comment on those. Matrix reloaded though, despite the slight contradictions, was a good movie.
There are two ways to judge a movie:
1) Fun Factor:
You watched the movie, didn't pay much atention to the graphics or plot, but you liked it for the entertainment it is.
2) Evil Critic from Hell:
You watched the movie, payed NO atention to how entertaining the actual movie is and judged it solely on how well the story was written and graphic quality.

example of #1: The first matrix was a fun movie to watch, great "eye candy", etc. Over all score: 10 out of 10.
example of #2: The first Matrix had some really cool effects though some were just plain cheesy. Like the part where Neo makes Smith explode. It sucked. Or on the ending where Neo flies away. Why did they put the sound of a jet engine??? Overall score: 5 out of 10.

So, whenever making a decision weather you liked a movie or not, remember to use "Fun Factor" as a base for judging because, that's what movies are about in the first place!!!

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Jess T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 19:15 Edited at: 18th Oct 2003 19:25
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Well, i wasn't meaning to critisis TM2... it was AWESOME to me... it's just that Neo's coat looked like god damned rubber... It's like they'd never heard of "The key to Perfection is Imperfections"...

But other than that it was a really good movie...

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 19:58
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'Matrix reloaded though, despite the slight contradictions, was a good movie.'

Nope. You're wrong. No matter what anyone says it was a bad movie.


Jeez, when will people learn that stating opinions like that won't convince anyone? It's your opinion, people are entitled to disagree with you.

I think it was a relaitvely poor movie considering what they could have done with it. I'd give it a 6 out of 10, whereas the original Matrix gets a 7.5/10. By my current estimates Revolutions will be a 7/10, but if they screw up the ending I'm going to like it a whole lot less.

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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 21:26
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Quote: "Nope. You're wrong. No matter what anyone says it was a bad movie."

No. Your wrong - its a great movie.


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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 21:50 Edited at: 18th Oct 2003 21:51
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That was a sarcastic comment... did you read my post?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 22:32
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Well, duh!


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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 23:02
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I suppose some people might find double sarcasm (without a reverse argument) amusing. *shrugs*

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 23:05
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Indeedly.


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denki
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 23:39
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"I suppose some people might find double sarcasm (without a reverse argument) amusing. *shrugs*"

Not really... lol.

[url][/url]
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Killswitch
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 23:49
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I don't think the video game ending is possible, I mean how could they explain the whole Neo/Trinity realtionship in a game? I mean in what game (and oh dear God if there are examples of this then the world is more screwed up then I thought) can you make the two of the main characters sleep together?

As for the Matrix within a Matrix it is possible Smith said that there was a 'perfect' Matrix which Humans didn't accept and that mankind defines its reality through pain and suffering (or something along those lines) so living in a dank, dark 'freedom' would be acceptable to them.

Then again it could just have a normal happy ending where mankind wins...again...

Jesus are we so big headed that we have to deafeat every invading Alien race, Self aware robot and giant gorrila that comes along?

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Oct 2003 23:59
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'Not really... lol.'

I wasn't referring to my comment, I was referring to TheCodingArea, and since he does find it funny, the answer is 'yes'...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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denki
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Posted: 19th Oct 2003 00:03
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I wasnt referring to your comment either

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