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Geek Culture / Hangman by UOK Games

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old_School
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Posted: 8th Jun 2011 22:06
Posting this here because we used Microsoft VB to make the game. We are working on a whole collection of educational games for teachers, home schooled kids and children in general. The idea is to promote education through tech. Hangman is your typical classic paper pen game we all loved to play when we were children and it promoted spelling.

We have taken the old paper pen game and made it digital. The game offers over 60,000 words to try and spell/guess. The game is in its final stages of production. We have allready released our beta to teachers locally and some parents locally for testing. No bugs have been reported and on the final release, we plan to add more words and add more options to the game. Here is a screen shot:




Please PM me if you are a teacher and would like a free copy to try the game out for your self. Other wise we will be releasing a commerical copy soon.
Teh Stone
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 00:15
Graphics need a rethink tbh, soo much wasted space and the quality isnt great either. Everybody knows that a hangman game is a hangman game as long as it has a goood selection of words its pretty much the same. People wont buy this when they can go to the next site and buy a better looking one.

Sorry for being negative but it is really important, you need to think of your target audience, as your aiming to sell to teachers then children at the age where hangman can be educational will much prefer bright colours, a character, some animation not a black to white gradient and grey buttons with jaggy edges.
Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 02:09
Did you make this using Dark GDK? Nobody can send you a PM without knowing your instant messenger of choice or user name in it.

old_School
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 03:13
Used VB and it has over 60,000 word list. The image above is a mockup but the beta version looks the same and the game is a kids game. I dont think children care about GFX look at minecraft. Anyway, the game is going commerical so I guess there is not much more we can argue about with it. Its just your basic hangman game with a huge word list. The largest word list for any hangman Ive seen so far.

The final version will have a few color adjustments and minor addon's but this is the game. Release date will be set to be at the end of the month. As for getting a hold of me, leave a Im here. The games going commerical so get your free copy now why u can, the final version will differ slightly then the beta but its free.
Cormorant5
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 03:14
I'm not a teacher or parent, but I'm a kid, and me and my friends try to make fun versions of Hangman all the time. I could be a useful beta tester.

Sorry, I have no idea how to PM

Teh Stone
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 03:16
Sorry if I offended but it just doesn't look commercail quality

goodluck ...
old_School
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 04:21
Maaah lol I personally made it and did not thnk it would go any where but I guess peps by these games alot i guess.
xplosys
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 04:40
Love the concept, not the graphics. I realize you didn't ask for comments and crits here but...

Quote: "I dont think children care about GFX"

I really have to disagree. Good luck.

Brian.

Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 05:39
It's good that you're programming but you should expect the above reactions. If you post on a programming form you're going to get your work critiqued... especially when you write a program in something other than a product made by The Game Creators.

Kids do care about colorful graphics... I know of many that refuse to watch any show that only comes in black & white.

60,000 words is impressive but here's a list of words that Evil-Hangman uses... 127,142 words (according to notepad).

http://nifty.stanford.edu/2011/schwarz-evil-hangman/dictionary.txt

old_School
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 21:16
Black and White is just for the beta, were working a menu to change color scheme. The big chalenge for me was making a hangman image that was kid friendly. I mean seriously its a guy hanging, so alot of focus and ideas went into trying to make a mildly violent hangman image. So we went classic. This is also the first educational game in the set. So we do welcome critisim but if your going to offer critisim. Be prepared to defend your thought. Making simple statements with no facts to back it up, typicaly annoys or just gets ignored. That being said, some of you did suggest some things we allready are working on. An others suggested things were not really worried about. But suggestions our welcome, just keep them organized please.
bitJericho
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 21:44 Edited at: 9th Jun 2011 21:45
Quote: "I dont think children care about GFX look at minecraft"


Uh, lol. Minecraft is graphically amazing. I'd challenge anyone here to create anything half as impressive.

Also, my kids, hate em or love em for it, won't play anything with poor graphics. It makes me But such is life.

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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 22:14
Quote: "So we do welcome critisim but if your going to offer critisim. Be prepared to defend your thought. Making simple statements with no facts to back it up, typicaly annoys or just gets ignored."


People offered you criticism, in a friendly manner. You don't need to lash out like that. You're talking to potential customers, and they (in turn) talk to other people; try to have a little more tact. The graphics are poor; whether you like it or not, it does affect the perception of a potential customer flipping through numerous hangman games. You often only get one shot at someone's attention; whether we like it or not, the looks (graphics) of a game are what usually holds someone's attention and causes them to have a further look.

If you're "annoyed" by the criticism here (which is pretty tame compared to other places on the net), perhaps you should take this elsewhere. People expect some form of polish in anything commercial these days, plain and simple.

-Keith

Cormorant5
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Posted: 9th Jun 2011 22:32 Edited at: 9th Jun 2011 22:34
About the dispute on graphics, how about a dunking tank. One of those things where you sit in a chair above a tank of water and if you get enough wrong the person, fully made, falls into the water. That would be a creative idea.

[edit] I'm a kid, everyone I know cares about graphics only if they truly stink, and I don't know if this qualifies as stinking really, but I agree it could use a touch up.

Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 02:54
Quote: "Making simple statements with no facts to back it up, typicaly annoys or just gets ignored."


We were only showed a picture and told "it's going commercial". The only things that were commented on was based on viewing the picture you provided and what little text you wrote about it.

You talked about adding more words... I showed you a link that's literally double the amount of words you have now. Make a quick program to check that new list vs the list of words you already have and only add words that you don't have in your list already. Or just use the new list instead... it's actually the entire list of words from the official Scrabble dictionary (second edition).

We want you to succeed in selling as many copies of this as you can because you're one of us (despite using a different language)... a fellow programmer. We offer criticism to help you not make you mad.

Can you upload the demo here so we can test it?

Quik
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 11:14
Quote: "Used VB and it has over 60,000 word list. The image above is a mockup but the beta version looks the same and the game is a kids game. I dont think children care about GFX look at minecraft"


Comparing this to minecraft?
a hangman
with a game thats all about building?
really?

No, if it were between your hangman, and a hangman thats more pleasant to the eyes or a hangman with a twist, well no need to say more than that i would buy the pretty one with a twist.

even if there were a couple $ difference in the price tag.

you see, if you take tetris
and you make a tetris replica, that has better graphics than the original tetris, then what am I gonna play? yours or the original?
hell ofcourse i would choose yours.
however, if your was more ugly, then i wouldnt.


I am sorry but, what you guys have is a stickman figure and a very basic layout, this game here, which was the first one that came up when i googled "stickman game" can even compete to what you got: not to mention, its free!
http://www.hangmangame.net/index.php?qt=1307693560&qg=AGQRLKMBCDVXY&qn=Y&qv=54e30f6f9a0912c1ef4519249b34b388

I strongly believe you need to rethink your marketing.

and for the record, I am a man.

Van B
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 12:24
Polish is everything when you expect to sell a game. I have no idea how you expect to sell a hangman game, but if anyone would ever buy a hangman game, then it better look damn good.

You aren't looking at the big picture. If you take an old game like hangman, you have to make it new, you have to make it worthwhile. You could easily smarten up the graphics, but you have the problem that your using VB, so unless you want to use an external graphics API, it will always have that VB look. VB is the completely wrong language to write games in.

I would suggest the following, however I'm not sure how you'll take this - I see it as a reality check...

* Stop using VB. Start learning DBPro.
* Make a word based educational game, so Hangman, maybe some crossword, wordsearch, boggle... lots of options. Nobody will pay money for hangman, ever - but a well presented educational game about words might do quite well.
* Graphics. Your stick man should be some sort of character, maybe hanging the poor git is a bad idea too - what if you had a pirate walking the plank instead. Has to be bright and child friendly. I added 2 cheeky monkey characters to my current project, and it's a completely different, vibrant and fun game because of it.
* Stop worrying about wordcounts. 60,000 words is plenty. I wrote a typing tutor game a while ago, and spent a long time filtering out inappropriate words, and ended up with about 48,000.
* Pretend that you freakin love words, you have to engage your audience and the people who decide what your audience get to buy.
* Consider netbooks - lots of kids have netbooks, maybe 1024x600 is a good resolution for your game.
* Sound. Things like playing a typewriter sound when a key is pressed can make a big difference.

You might have to get an artist on board, but that's something you have to consider, along with the direction you should take your game. The main thing is that game programming is very different to application programming. DBPro is procedural, so rather than designing a form, you'd load in graphics and place them on the screen. The actual logic in the game wouldn't change much, but it's hangman, the bulk of any hangman game should be code that makes it look better than just a hangman game. When a kid get's a word correct - they should see fireworks and sparkles and cool stuff happening. They need to see something cool, and need to want to see that again, otherwise they might as well watch TV.

I think the main thing is to give your target market some credit, don't assume anything about them, polish your game as much as you can stand or are able to do - graphics can be straightforward but they need to be charming at least. Minecraft was mentioned.... Minecraft with it's cute piggies, birds, cows, dogs and all that personality. Minecraft is a fascinating game for kids to even watch someone else play, people need to stop using Minecraft as an excuse for their poor visuals, it's just embarrasing.

We are a very mixed community here, some critique might sound harsh but remember that we are mostly in the same boat - trying to make games that people play, either for fun or financial gain. Harsh advice is the most useful at the end of the day, we respect people here who can take advice and critique and are prepared to learn and improve.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
old_School
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 21:56 Edited at: 10th Jun 2011 21:58
Well good thing I dont have to worry about selling it since its going commerical and once a final copy is finished. We will be selling the rights to our buyer. Just goes to show, GFX and even oginal ideas dont allways matter. You need connections, good communication and the ability to sale your product. Oddly enough, I have all of these so saleing the product's rights was not a hard thing to accomplish. Good luck with your ventures.
xplosys
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 22:22 Edited at: 11th Jun 2011 03:44
Previous post removed.

Sorry. After reading the website I understand.

Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 01:33 Edited at: 11th Jun 2011 01:37
Quote: "We will be selling the rights to our buyer."


I don't mean to give him any more attention than he obviously doesn't deserve... but I now know why he doesn't want or care to hear any of our advice. This game was a custom game requested by somebody. He makes custom games for $20 a pop.

http://www.uokgames.com/games/

Quoting the site:
Quote: "Typically custom games cost on average $20.00 (U.S.) to create in most cases. Once the game is created, you own the rights to the game, no catch or strings attached."



@ Old_School:

The thing I don't understand is if the customer has all rights to the game why are you going to put it on your site for download? Aren't you stealing from your own customer? Once you "sell" him the rights to the game you shouldn't be able to distribute it yourself even if you programmed it yourself.

I know you don't want to hear any more advice from us but despite the problems with this one you're really selling yourself short by offering to make a custom game and give all rights for only $20. Granted the lack of pizzazz you want to put into the Hangman game is probably because you're only getting $20 for it but you can get much more for custom games that you sell all rights to.

And concerning your Math Wizard... most math games have unlimited numbers of problems because they can create new ones on the fly rather than stick to a list of 500 pre-made math problems.

Teh Stone
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 01:54
Quote: "Just goes to show, GFX and even oginal ideas dont allways matter."


Well it does really, if you put more effort into producing a polished game with some nice visuals, sound and website to back it up you could charge much more than $20 for a game, this would also help bring in more clients if they see your work is good

see my point, graphics in casual games are always VERY important
crispex
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 04:03
Quote: "* Stop using VB. Start learning DBPro."


This bothered me a bit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with VB. It's the only real thing it doesn't do well is 3D, but as for a hangman game, there is no reason why you'd ever need to use 3D unless it was a super-realistic hangman game with 3D graphics.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
old_School
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 07:40 Edited at: 11th Jun 2011 07:44
Ahh this is not a custom game created for a client. I just finished redoing our website today as well. You guys really need to get your facts stright, stop making assumptions and stop with making false statements. I came on here seeking some mild feedback and recived harsh remarks about stupid petty stuff. An now Im reading false statement after false statement and assumptions out the ying yang. This game is apart of a educational set made by UOK Games not a client. The addtional services we offer just help pay the bills. I also created a service on there for TGC people in mind after hearing a major outpoor for GUI art. I'm guessing everyone missed that part as well in their reading.

Also want to thank you Crispex. There is nothing wrong with VB, Microsoft made it. Over 90% of you use windows as well so I'm sure windows knows what they are doing. I own DB Pro and every TGC product sold on here including the model packs. Nothing wrong with TGC stuff. VB is all I need though for 2D apps. Some of you are so focussed on 3D GFX that you can't think or imagine a 2D game it seems.

Edit:

After a breif thought on this topic, please just lock it. This is getting down right rediculas.
Quik
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 08:56
Quote: "I would suggest the following, however I'm not sure how you'll take this "


apparantly, not too good..

and for the record, I am a man.

Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 09:22
Quote: "Ahh this is not a custom game created for a client."


If it isn't then why did you say the following in an earlier message?

Quote: "Well good thing I dont have to worry about selling it since its going commerical and once a final copy is finished. We will be selling the rights to our buyer."


Since your site mentioned making custom games where the client own the rights to the game when it's done it's a safe assumption your Hangman game was a custom game for a client based on what you wrote in bold above. If me assuming your Hangman game is probably a custom game for a client is what you call "a false statement"... why did you say your Hangman game rights will be given to "our buyer"?

Quote: "This is getting down right rediculas."


I agree.

KeithC
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 17:17
@ Old School

You really need to learn to take comments and criticism a whole lot better, or don't bother asking for it at all. Especially when you're putting up a game for C&C made from non-TGC applications, in a TGC forum.

Harping about 3D versus 2D has nothing to do with the quality you've presented here. People started by giving you some honest criticism, and you blew it all out of proportion. It's this type of attitude that got you a ban last time.

-Keith

Van B
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 18:54
Who mentioned 3D?

For the record, most of my projects are 2D - my suggestion to use DBPro was based purely on how VB'ish it looks. DBPro allows more control and is much more straightforward for games in general. Take it from someone who has been using VB professionally for 15 years.

Anyway, it's clear that you know best. Good luck selling the rights to hangman.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!

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