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Geek Culture / mini-itx system build, cpu suggestions?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 10:47 Edited at: 10th Jun 2011 10:48
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Mini-ITX system in an ultra sleek-looking case with a slot-loading DVD writer. Why? Because I always wanted to build an ITX system and having a small portable powerhouse would be awesome.

There's several choices for boards if you want a VIA CPU or an Atom CPU, but to get the most out of it I wanted an i-series. The mini-itx board has a LGA 1155 socket. You can see I've been considering several different CPUs. If I don't plan on using a dedicated video card, power requirements will be around 120-150 watts. With that in mind, 65w is as high as I would go on the CPU. I review build I found here used only a 120w power but used a 35w Core 2 Duo CPU (T5600). So if I go with 150w, I should be ok with the 65w CPUs.

The i5-2390T has the lowest TDP and supports hyper-threading, but is only dual core. But would it be better to have two cores (and two simulated cores) at 2.7GHz or four solid cores but only running at 2.3GHz?

The i3 is the cheapest by about $60 or more. The i5's are pretty much all around $200. The i7 is about $300, but the best choice if don't mind the 65w TDP because it is faster, supports all the i-series features, and has the Intel 3000 graphics (cause im not using another card).

Case:
Nexus Psile
Some install pics of the case


Motherboard:
ASRock H67M-ITX LGA 1155 Intel H67 - $87
OR
ASRock H67M-ITX/HT - $125

The main difference here is an added mini-pci slot for the included wifi, and a MCE remote. I could buy a remote separately, so that's no big deal really, but the wifi would be nice. If not, then I'd lose my only expansion in the cheaper board should I choose to get a PCIe wifi card (unless I get an ugly USB wifi)

Memory:
Samsung 4GB DDR3 1333 VLP (qty.2) - $40 ($80 for two sticks)

Storage:
Crucial 64GB SSD SATA3 - $120
WD Green 1TB 5400rpm 64mb cache SATA2 - $58
There was a 2TB for only $80, but too many reviews persuaded me away. If in the end I decide not to go with a SSD for primary, I'll just get a 1TB WD black drive. The main issue is the case only seems to have a spot for a 3.5" drive, so I'm not sure where I'd put the SSD. I also have a NAS on a gigabit network, so there's always that option for additional storage as well.

CPU:
Intel i5-2390T (dual core, 2.7GHz, 35w TDP, HD 2000 Graphics, YES hyper-threading)
Intel i5-2500T (quad core, 2.3GHz, 45w TDP, HD 2000 Graphics, NO hyper-threading)
Intel i5-2400S (quad core, 2.5GHz, 65w TDP, HD 2000 Graphics, NO hyper-threading)
Intel i7-2600S (quad core, 2.8GHz, 65w TDP, HD 2000 Graphics, YES hyper-threading)
Intel i3-2105 (dual core, 3.10GHz, 65w TDP, HD 3000 Graphics, YES hyper-threading)


Other thoughts are on the single PCIe slot. A TV-tuner maybe? I might wait until it's built to see how the Intel graphics works, I've read pretty good reviews on them but they're still not going to match my 8600gts. Playing games on it would be nice, but isn't a primary concern. If the CPUs graphics hold up well enough for what I do, then I'll probably look into a TV card.


Ok, so for the motherboard with an i5-series CPU(est.$200), 8GB ram, 1TB storage drive and 64GB SSD system drive, I'm looking at about $545 from Newegg. This is obviously just an estimate until I make the final decision on parts, but it's not bad I think. Only thing to factor in on top of that price is the case, which I'm having a hard time finding anyone who carries it.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 10th Jun 2011 12:52
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i heard people built laptop-like protable desktops with those. Alsopeople bought a bunch of these,and made a cluster, small ones held 5-6 borads, then this dude, built a cluster out of 20 or 30 of them, he had to build a custom rack type thing to hold all the hardware. I want to attempt making a cluster out of my computers, it will be like having my own mini supercomputer/ mainframe

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 14:42
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It depends what you'll be using it for. If you're going to be doing a serious amount of dev work on it then going for a quad-core is a no-brainer. But anything short of that and I'd say go for an i3. They're significantly cheaper, have good clocks (2.7GHz stock), overclock like crazy (got mine to just over 4GHz on air ), and have 4 HT cores. Seriously, if you're not doing anything intensive (I mean INTENSIVE: video encoding, emulation, compiling HUGE projects etc.) it's just not worth it - an i3 will get you along just fine

Although Intel graphics have come on leaps and bounds since where they used to be, they're still fairly dissapointing for anything beyond you average day-to-day tasks. If you want to do some gaming on it then consider getting a new GPU. You can pick up a fairly nice card (in terms of light gaming performance) for under £100. Something like an Nvidia GT 450, or an ATI HD 5670 (the two best low-profile cards you can buy). Just take note that some mini-itx cases end up blocking one of the monitor connectors, so if you plan on using dual screens then check that your case doesn't do this.


Hope that helps.


Blitzwerks | Indie Development Team
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Phaelax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 22:43
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Quote: "overclock like crazy"

Can't overclock with an H67 board. Plus, keep in mind these boards are only 6.7x6.7 inches, and that Psile case is a 9" cube. Not much room for heat dissipation. Besides, I never risk overclocking anyway, I like stability.

When doing dev work on my current system, I've had multiple DB windows open at a time, Netbeans running, Photoshop CS(it'll be CS5 on the new machine), and typically more browser windows than I can count. It's a normal setup for me. Doesn't sound like much to be concerned about but the other day my ram usage was nearly 6GB and I only have 4gb installed on 32-bit XP.

Thanks for the feedback, it did help some. When considering a video card, I looked at a nvidia 410, but it couldn't even compete with my 8600. If I got a new video card, it'd have to be low power and possibly with passive cooling. Know of any?


Quick mention about the case, the Psile seems to be hard to find. I think I found one website that has it for about $200, others list it out of stock but for $300. Just a bit more expensive than I'd like, but I can't find any other sleek-looking cases. So I started modeling my own and my brother says he can find people to fabricate everything.

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 11th Jun 2011 23:23
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For the graphics card I would check out Quiet PC, they've got quite a few passively cooled GPUs. What games do you play? It might help making a GPU suggestion a bit easier.

Avoid any X450 cards (eg. ATI HD 5450) like the plague, they are designed for media centre use and nothing more. If you want a passive solution then take a look at the GT 430 and the HD 5670 - neither of which require any extra PSU connections as both are low power.

8600 GT vs HD 5670
8600 GT vs GT 430
GT 430 vs HD 5670

I have a system with a HD 5670 in, so if you want me to run any benchmarks for you I'd be more than happy. The HD 5670 is superior to the GT 430 in just about every way, especially given the wide memory bandwidth. Other than that, both cards are silent, both support DX11, both are low power and both have 1GB of memory.

In my personal opinion if you are a heavy gamer then you will be disappointed by the HD 5670, but beyond that it's a pretty nice little card for the money. If you can deal with bumping the resolutions down a bit and maybe turning off one or two settings, it'll play quite nicely with all of the latest games.

Also in regards to my comment earlier about the i3, I was just commenting on how flexible the chip was - obviously given the circumstances clocking to 4GHz on air in an ITX enclosure would not be the most sensible thing to do!
But again, unless you're doing seriously CPU-intensive stuff, since when was 2.7GHz not enough?

Quote: "Quick mention about the case, the Psile seems to be hard to find. I think I found one website that has it for about $200, others list it out of stock but for $300. Just a bit more expensive than I'd like, but I can't find any other sleek-looking cases. So I started modeling my own and my brother says he can find people to fabricate everything."

I know exactly what you mean, having just bought one for a server myself. It took me a very long time to find one what wasn't horribly cheap and nasty. I'm not a big fan of them, but if cube cases float your boat then check out some of the cases by Fractal Design and Lian Li. If you wouldn't mind an mATX case, then I would very much recommend the Antec Fusion Remote.

Hope this helps


Blitzwerks | Indie Development Team
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Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 03:58
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It was so much easier when all you had to worry about was clock speed. But lately I went from 2.8GHz to 2.66GHz and now considering a 2.5GHz, yet despite lower clock speeds they perform quicker. I'm looking at this i3 right now that's 3.1GHz stock for $125. Hard to argue that for the price, but looking up benchmarks on TomsHardware doesn't look impressive for the i3. Only marginally better than an equally clocked Core 2 Duo. I think I've narrowed it down between 3 possible CPUs: i5-2500S, i5-2405S, i7-2600S
If it fits into my budget, I'll take the i7. They're all 65w CPUs. The main difference between the two i5 chips is the HD3000 graphics in the 2405S, slightly lower clock speed, and no VT-d(virtualization) or TxT(trusted execution). I doubt I have need for concern over those two technologies though.



I actually looked at that Fractal Design case and love it, however, no place for a CD-rom. A micro ATX case is still bigger than I want. If I could get desktop system that fits into an ipod, that'd be perfect! lol. However, that Lian case you linked looks to be the perfect dimension. The one I'm designing right now I gave myself limits of 11x6x8 inches (so it fits in a specific spot on my shelf), and that case is just under those dimensions. And the fact it comes with a PSU already saves me some trouble of getting DC-DC converters. I'll be considering that one.

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 14:33
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I'm hoping to upgrade soon, and seeing I'm on AMD I want a new AMD mobo as I've had problems with them on previous computers :/.

If you're willing to go around changing to AMD, there's a nifty Phenom Six-Core at 3.3GHz for £125 (Amazon) which I'm aiming to get along with an AM3 mobo with 3GB DDR3.

It depends on what you really want to do. Seeing I use UDK and Pro Tools I'm gonna need a hefty CPU to handle physics and calculations in UDK and sound management, RTAS loading, multi-tracking and recording for Pro Tools. They both just survive running off my ancient 4400+ Dual 2.3GHz and it reaches 68 degrees on both pieces of software (PT goes to about 65 degrees) so yeah. Your choice anyway .

-Parunagall/SSG

Sorry all for my furious departure a while ago (well, almost 8 months xD) after deep thought I have decided to return.

I apologise to those I offended.
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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 17:27
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Quote: "If you're willing to go around changing to AMD, there's a nifty Phenom Six-Core at 3.3GHz for £125 (Amazon) which I'm aiming to get along with an AM3 mobo with 3GB DDR3."

My friend bought a 1090T (3.2Ghz) for some reason (he doesn't do anything particularly CPU-intensive) - but regardless, it's a very nice chip! It seems that the lower-end chips all unlock to give an extra core, but the yield for higher end Phenoms is (predictably) a lot lower - so I won't suggest trying to save a bit by buying a Phenom X4 and unlocking it because it probably won't happen! Then you'd be angry at me

Without meaning to derail the thread, what plugins are you using? I've got Logic 8 and I'm still discovering how to use the more advanced synths and samplers better so I haven't really had much time to experiment with plugins - I'm told Kontakt is pretty good.


Blitzwerks | Indie Development Team
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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 17:53
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Me? I don't use any external plugins for PT seeing RTASs are rare, I've become more familiarised with Xpand!2 and BOOM but haven't really got much out of Structure and Vacuum but they're pretty cool. The things that Pro Tools come with can keep you experimenting for ages, I've only just mastered the proper DnB drumbeat :/.

And I had the 1090T in mind too, I'll see when the time comes that I have more money.

My question is, are Mini-ATXs weaker (as in handling power and components) than standard ATX mobos? I saw a good one with 3 PCIs and 6 SATA ports for £50 so I'd go for that if the mATXs are any decent .

-SSG

Sorry all for my furious departure a while ago (well, almost 8 months xD) after deep thought I have decided to return.

I apologise to those I offended.
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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 19:13
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Quote: "My question is, are Mini-ATXs weaker (as in handling power and components) than standard ATX mobos? I saw a good one with 3 PCIs and 6 SATA ports for £50 so I'd go for that if the mATXs are any decent ."

Mini-ITX or Micro ATX? To be honest Mini-ITX is designed for embedded and space-critical applications - I think you were talking about Micro ATX. Micro ATX is no weaker than standard ATX - the key difference is in size. Personally I would stick to reliable brands like Asus and Gigabyte, both of which have some very nice mATX offerings - may I suggest an Asus M4A78LT-M LE? Although it should be noted this only has 2x PCI slots.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 20:06 Edited at: 12th Jun 2011 20:15
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My personal experience has told me to stay away from Gigabyte. I've tried them twice (and the boards were over $200) and both times had them fail in some way or another or otherwise glitchy from the start. So far, the best I've had is Asus which I had for many years in a P4 system until I dug it outa the closet last year and couldn't boot due to blown caps. My current system (about 3 years old) uses an Abit board with solid-state capacitors and it still runs beautifully. I won't know for a few more years if it outlasts the Asus or not.

As wilderbeast mentioned, you mixed up the two form factors. Micro-ATX is just a smaller form factor of ATX, still uses the same PSU and everything else as regular ATX. But with the smaller board you do have to consider it will most likely have few PCI slots plus everything else will be fitted closer together, so use a well ventilated case.

Mini-ITX (what I want to build) is much smaller, boards are only 6.7". Then you have Pico-ITX which could fit a PC inside a soda can, but are currently limited to about a 1GHz VIA chip. The current generation of mini-ITX allows me to use current chips and the board I want still uses the standard 24+4 pin power connectors, so technically I could use an ATX PSU, but that's almost as big as my case anyway. There's always Flex PSU I suppose.

The main reason I want mini-ITX is just so I can build a tiny portable system. There's no real reason behind it.

I've just added a slot-loading DVD drive to the system, which there weren't many to choose from. About $40 for a DVD burner or $150 for the BluRay burner. I'm not concerned with burning BluRay, just playing them. Still debating whether I wanna spend the extra $100 for bluray or not.


edit:
So I just watched a video on newegg (it just popped up on a page) for how to build a computer, not that I needed to watch it. But I did learn something interesting. The LGA series socket doesn't have pins! Just a series of gold contacts on the bottom of the chip. Haven't actually seen an i-series chip in person this was news to me.

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 20:36
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Quote: "Then you have Pico-ITX which could fit a PC inside a soda can, but are currently limited to about a 1GHz VIA chip."

This isn't entirely true, I am running a 1.8Ghz Atom with a picoITX PSU - in fact the clock doesn't really matter as you can get picoPSUs up to 120W I think.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2011 22:53
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Oh I didn't know they supported atom chips yet.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 29th Jul 2011 03:12
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hey seriosly, why not try building a laptop on a mini itx base? sure it will be a large buly laptop, proboly a desktop replacement, but the great thing is, you will actually be able to carry it around in one piece, take to your friends house or lan parties, it can be the size of a briefcase or wahtever, You will be able to easily upgrade it and you will have plenty of room to expand your imagination. It will be an equivalent of an expensive desktop for a lot less.

if you think this idea is ridiculous, see for yourself, it has been done already. http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/itx-laptop/default.asp?page=1


i am thinking of trying this myself. i have been frustrated by laptops long enough and today was the last straw. i already picked out the mini itx motherboard i want and tomorrow im gonna go and get it along with any other stuff i might need. this would be one of the greatest projects ever if i manage to pull it off. and i seriosly reccomend you also try it for your thing. mini itx is the future! WE WIL BRING DOWN THE LAPTOP INDUSTRY ONCE AND FOR ALL! stupid laptops

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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charger bandit
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Posted: 29th Jul 2011 08:16
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I would go with the new AMD 3850 processor and a mini-ITX mobo. Very good integrated graphics and if you add a Radeon graphics card,it will work in CFX with the integrated one. Plus it's pretty cheap.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 1st Aug 2011 07:27
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wait, cfx works with integrated cards now???? tell me more!

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charger bandit
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Posted: 1st Aug 2011 08:12
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Well I am not really sure if it's called CFX, I think it's called hybrid CF. Your integrated GPU helps out the discrete GPU. Borrows RAM and borrows processing when it gets loaded.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 1st Aug 2011 09:01
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how does it work? do you need the same model of dedicated cars as the intergrated one? and which mini itx boards support it? i sure hope there are some intel mini itx boards with that feature

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mm0zct
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2011 17:59
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There won't be any intel boards that feature it, because they have intel integrated graphics, not AMD, you can only crossfire between AMD graphics chips, and you've been able to do that for years, the difference being the new A3850 processors have an integrated graphics chip actually worth talking about.

Personally I'll chip in that I build a PhenomII 1055T mini-itx system into an old shuttle case, it's good for serious number crunching, and the would do fine as a htpc, but it doess't have a proper graphics card for thermal/power constraints (200W PSU and not enough ventilation for a dedicated GPU).

If you want a graphics card I would recommend looking at the mini-itx/dtx case series Toms hardware did not that long ago, the lian-li case on that is probably what I will migrate to when it becomes my gaming machine rather than just my work machine.

AMD AthlonX2 5000 black edition @2.8ghz, 4gb pc5400, AMD/ATi hd3850, creative xfi music, 24" hp widescreen 1920x1200 + 22" zalman trimon 3D 1680x1050, ECS KA3 MVP mobo
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 4th Aug 2011 14:45
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i wish there was an amd mini itx board with 2 pci-e that supported crossfire. Then it would actually be possible to build a tiny crossfire system.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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mm0zct
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Posted: 4th Aug 2011 15:17
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you can't fit 2 pci-e slots on the mini itx form factor, mine uses laptop RAM to save space even.

If the DTX form factor had taken off, then you would have probably got your wish. A crossfire micro-atx should be doable, not sure if anyone's made one though.

AMD AthlonX2 5000 black edition @2.8ghz, 4gb pc5400, AMD/ATi hd3850, creative xfi music, 24" hp widescreen 1920x1200 + 22" zalman trimon 3D 1680x1050, ECS KA3 MVP mobo
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 00:32
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dtx? i gotta look into this

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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