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Geek Culture / Qubit will change the world of computational science!!!

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Non Sequitur M
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Posted: 14th Jun 2011 21:46 Edited at: 14th Jun 2011 21:50
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I was just watching a piece on the rise of the Qubit. This is absolutely amazing! This new computation bit is... ...is... ...I don't even know how to describe it in layman's terms. So, I'll describe it scientifically!

First, let me tell a little bit about the Qubit, or the quantic bit. In regular computational theory, a bit is an electron that is polarized magnetically north(on or 1) or south(off or 0). That obviously means that the bit holds a single digit of binary. So, 8 digits of binary, 8 bits of data. The Qubit, on the other hand, can store a 1, or 0, or even BOTH! So, since the bit can occupy the same state in two forms, the growth of data expands exponentially. That same 8 digits of binary can be stored in 3 Qubits, or 2^3, or a ket.
Well, here's a scenario of how much this saves in computational space:

Say you have 54 bits of data. That amount will store 13.5 bytes of data. *mockingly*Oooooooh! Real impressive!*mockingly* Not.

Now, let's say you have 54 Qubits of data, instead. Since the growth of information in quantum computing is 2^n, where n is equal to the number of Qubits available, then 54 Qubits of data can store 1.8E54 or 1.8 quintillion bits of information! That's the equivalent of 4EB, or 4 exabytes of data! To put that in perspective, that is equal to 4,294,967,296GB of storage!!!

There's only one problem with the Qubit, currently. It's quantum state. In quantum physics, if you observe any particle of matter, you change it's state just by looking at it, correct? Well, the same applies to the Qubit, being that it is a quantic entity. So, the mere act of trying to retrieve the information, causes the whole system to collapse! In fact, if a single quark, or any other particle for that matter, even a photon, collides with a single Qubit, the whole quantic state collapses, and quantum physics smooths out the data so all of the Qubits are polarized south, or off!

But, someday, when we finally grasp this new piece of science, we will be able to make computers than can easily store more data than the entire universe can hold. Which by the way is only about 300Q(or roughly 100kets) of data! Imagine a 200ket computer with 50kets of ram of RAM! That would be ridiculous!

Anyway, just thought this was awesome.

Later,
-Amo.

[EDIT]Sorry, did my math wrong. Corrected the amount of kets in the universe, as well as my imaginary quantum computer.

If the universe isn't a program, then why do planets orbit in loops, death sparks life, and human interaction is buggy and glitched?
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Dark Frager
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Posted: 14th Jun 2011 21:49
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Take THAT Crysis. :p



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Zotoaster
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Posted: 14th Jun 2011 21:51
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Maybe the universe was programmed using 42 qubits.

"everyone forgets a semi-colon sometimes." - Phaelax
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Non Sequitur M
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Posted: 14th Jun 2011 22:05 Edited at: 14th Jun 2011 22:06
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Yeah. That makes us look small. If the universe were really 300Q of information, that means a human's entire existence(birth to death) would take up about 10E300E-10,000,000,000,000Q. That's tiny. That's a decimal number with a Quinquagintillion to the power of a Quinquagintillion zeros followed by a 1!

If the universe isn't a program, then why do planets orbit in loops, death sparks life, and human interaction is buggy and glitched?
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 00:32
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Quote: "So, the mere act of trying to retrieve the information, causes the whole system to collapse! In fact, if a single quark, or any other particle for that matter, even a photon, collides with a single Qubit, the whole quantic state collapses, and quantum physics smooths out the data so all of the Qubits are polarized south, or off!"


So... ... ... how do we know it was even working to begin with and all the information was just clean from the start?


Quote: "The Qubit, on the other hand, can store a 1, or 0, or even BOTH! So, since the bit can occupy the same state in two forms, the growth of data expands exponentially. That same 8 digits of binary can be stored in 3 Qubits, or 2^3, or a ket."


So, a bit can hold 2 states (1 or 0) and a QuBit can hold 3 states (1, 0, or both)? If that's the case, your math is wrong. The equation would be 3^n, where n is the number of QuBits you have.

Or maybe you're meaning that a QuBit can hold 2 different states at the same time? If that's the case, really all we're doing is doubling what a normal bit can do, so the equation becomes (2^n)*2, where n is the number of qubits.


Or maybe instead of trying to explain this yourself, you can link us to an article?


~Plystire

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 00:54
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Yeah, this is my problem with quantum physics, I just don't buy it. xD Surely something that is "both states at once until you observe it" is just what it is when you observe it, imo it's irrelevant whether it theoretically was something else beforehand.

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Non Sequitur M
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 00:59 Edited at: 15th Jun 2011 01:07
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Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
Article on quantum computing by Michael Nielson
http://michaelnielsen.org/blog/quantum-computing-for-everyone/

But, I warn you, it's messy in there. Lot's of quantum math. Which, when boiled down, says exactly what I've already said.

The reason that the Qubits are exponential, is because the very nature of the Qubit's ability to store 2 numbers at once. In the article, the author says that a 20Q computer can hold over a million numbers. Which would require the math be 2^20, or 1,048,576. So, my math, and thereby my description, was exact.

[EDIT] Also, my bad, quantum theory states that if you directly observe it, that the quantum state fails. It's a long complicated subject with lost of math and theoretics.

Long story short, we know how to store data correctly, but if we can figure out how to preserve it, process it, and retrieve it, then we will be able to process and store information at a level never even dreamed of!

If the universe isn't a program, then why do planets orbit in loops, death sparks life, and human interaction is buggy and glitched?
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Wolf
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 01:01
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Good thing I'm an irrational person that has problems with simple algebra




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Matty H
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 01:06
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Quote: "Yeah, this is my problem with quantum physics, I just don't buy it. xD Surely something that is "both states at once until you observe it" is just what it is when you observe it, imo it's irrelevant whether it theoretically was something else beforehand."


Yeah, but when you are not looking, small things can do very strange things and we can see the effects for ourselves.



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Non Sequitur M
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 01:08
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That above experiment is what lead to this new technology. Thank you, Matty H!

If the universe isn't a program, then why do planets orbit in loops, death sparks life, and human interaction is buggy and glitched?
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tiresius
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 01:29 Edited at: 15th Jun 2011 01:30
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Quote: " but if we can figure out how to preserve it, process it, and retrieve it,"

That is a big part of the equation, isn't it?

My brother wrote a compression program called pee-wee ZIP.
It removed all the 0 bits because they're wasting space. It zipped things up really well!
He's still working on the pee-wee UNZIP program.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 05:26
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Quote: "Say you have 54 bits of data. That amount will store 13.5 bytes of data"

Wouldn't 54 bits be represented by 6.75 bytes? 13.5 bytes would be 108 bits.

Quote: " In fact, if a single quark, or any other particle for that matter, even a photon, collides with a single Qubit, the whole quantic state collapses"

And I thought a magnet was bad to have around...

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 05:50
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Quote: "quantic bit"

I believe it's quantum bit?

Also, I don't get why people in this thread are ragging on quantum computing. I don't have much physics experience, but I don't think that many people on this forum have a ton of physics experience. It's not really something you can deduce with intuition in a bit, because if it was, it wouldn't be such a new model.

Didn't google already successfully run schor's algorithm on a quantum computer? There's also a company with a commercially available quantum computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems. I think these are valid technologies... though I could be wrong.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 07:05
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Quote: "Wouldn't 54 bits be represented by 6.75 bytes? 13.5 bytes would be 108 bits. "

That's what I was thinking.

I'm confused by your math Amo Deus Man. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong, but like Plystire, it seems that a Qubit can hold 3 states rather than 2 like the conventional bit. So that would mean it could store 3^n rather than 2^n values. So instead of 8 bits being able to represent 256 values, 8 qubits would be able to represent 6531 values.

And for people that seem to be "criticizing" or "questioning" quantum physics - just because you don't understand something (not saying I do by any means), doesn't mean it's not true. It's not as if quantum physics is just a crackpot theory that some scientists decided to make up. It's the newest frontier of science and we've only begun to scratch the surface. We didn't even understand electricity 150 years ago, and now look how far we've come .


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Non Sequitur M
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 18:02
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yes, my bad again, I was excited when I wrote this. I was doing math for 54 bytes. But, I iterate again: No, the math on the exponents is correct. Read the two articles I linked. It is 2^n.

A Qubit can hold 2 states at the same time. It can hold 3 different states, but only two of them at once. So, the states can only be, 00, 10 or 01(either can be used do to it's quantum state), or 11. But, the reason it is exponential is because the qubit can link four states in a quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement is a higher state of representation, where non-linear correlations can be maintained. So, where as a regular computer stores information in a linear pattern, a quantum computer can link in a multi-dimensional pattern, where distance and permutation are irrelevant! That is why it is 2^n.

Also, NeuroFuzzy FTW! Dude! I didn't know these things were already coming out. I just watched that show yesterday, and it came out sometime in the beginning of the year, and already they've made some advances!

If the universe isn't a program, then why do planets orbit in loops, death sparks life, and human interaction is buggy and glitched?
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Indicium
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 18:05
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Oh my... mind blown.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 18:13
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Much more excited about the idea of computers using fibre optic technology to run on light...why is this not being looked into?

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Red Eye
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 18:30
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@Matty H and others:

If anyone here is dutch or has good translator, I wrote a small article for an assignment, on this covering some good deal of what that doctor on the video said and more... attached.

Anyway... Quantom Physics is amazing, and maybe a wild guess, but I do believe a very near to perfection guess. Altough from a programmer point of view I would say everything is a very well organized chaotic matrix.

Keep this thing thread going, would like to see the logic of people.



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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 18:39
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I would love to be able to use the phrase, "My PC runs at the speed of light? Yours? Pfft, electricity. So 20th century brah."

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 20:06
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Quote: "why is this not being looked into?"


The CSIRO are working along those lines, starting with trying to build routers.


Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 22:34
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Awwwwwwesome. I now have hope in the future.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 15th Jun 2011 23:31
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I love reading this stuff...it's awesome. However, I checked that Wikipedia page and it seems there is a considerable amount of skepticism as to whether a quantum computer has actually been made. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but that I am skeptical about whether it already has been done, since, as a guy on that page said (under "Criticism"):

Quote: "Their claimed speedup over classical algorithms appears to be based on a misunderstanding of a paper my colleagues van Dam, Mosca and I wrote on "The power of adiabatic quantum computing." That speed up unfortunately does not hold in the setting at hand, and therefore D-Wave's "quantum computer" even if it turns out to be a true quantum computer, and even if it can be scaled to thousands of qubits, would likely not be more powerful than a cell phone."


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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 16th Jun 2011 04:47 Edited at: 16th Jun 2011 04:48
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They have made them but only to use a few of them at a time. The thing that I think stops them from actually being able to make a fully working quantum computer is that every time the data is observed it changes the result. So how can we rely on data being the same if every time we look at a Qubit it changes because we're looking at it?

Not looking it = 1
Looking at it = 0
Stop looking at it for 5 mins = Both 0 and 1
Look at it again = 0
Stop looking again = 0 and 1
Glance at it = 1

An ever changing bit of data is unreliable for anything. Even a quantumly entangled Qubit would have the same unreliability... the entangled Qubit just mimics the other entangled Qubit you happen to be looking at and they both return to the Off/On/Both state when not being observed. I hope some day it's possible but it doesn't look good right now.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 16th Jun 2011 05:46 Edited at: 16th Jun 2011 19:38
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But if them looking at it makes it change, they can't possibly be using any of them at all.

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Teh Stone
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Posted: 16th Jun 2011 10:38
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They stored and recorded anti hydrogen atoms that are meant to anhilate when they contact any form of matter, it's only a matter(not intended) of time before they can get this tech to work
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Non Sequitur M
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Posted: 16th Jun 2011 18:59
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Awwwww, Uncle Sam from left field with a piece of quoty sadness... That sucks.

But, hey. When we were first making computers, they were super vulnerable to static. You could rub your hand down the side of the case, and there was a high probability that the static in your hand wiped the memory. Someday, we'll get it for sure!

Although, the don't even look at it rule reminds me of Spinal Tap.
Nigel(About one of his guitars):
Nigel: Don’t touch it! Don’t touch it! No one... No one... No! Don’t touch it.
Marty: Well, uh, I wasn’t... Uh, I wasn’t gonna touch it... I was just pointing at it... I....
Nigel: Well, don’t point, even.
Marty: Don’t even point?
Nigel: No. It can’t be played... Never... I mean, I...
Marty: Can I look at it?
Nigel: No.
Marty: Don’t look at it.
Nigel: No, you’ve seen enough of that one.

Haha!!!

If the universe isn't a program, then why do planets orbit in loops, death sparks life, and human interaction is buggy and glitched?
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Plystire
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Posted: 16th Jun 2011 21:42
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Wikipedia:
Quote: "a qubit can be 0, 1, or a superposition of both."


Keyword here is "superposition". If you had said that in your original description, I probably wouldn't have argued because saying it this way actually lets the algorithm make sense, since it no longer becomes 3 simple states but a wide variety of various potential states.


For the record, I was not and am not "ragging on" quantum physics. I know, as well as anyone, that it is a very real part of our universe worth looking into. Sorry to be up front about the math, but when 2+2 doesn't come out to equal 4, you can't just go with the flow, you need to ask the necessary questions.


~Plystire

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 17th Jun 2011 21:47
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Quote: "Although, the don't even look at it rule reminds me of Spinal Tap.
Nigel(About one of his guitars):
Nigel: Don’t touch it! Don’t touch it! No one... No one... No! Don’t touch it.
Marty: Well, uh, I wasn’t... Uh, I wasn’t gonna touch it... I was just pointing at it... I....
Nigel: Well, don’t point, even.
Marty: Don’t even point?
Nigel: No. It can’t be played... Never... I mean, I...
Marty: Can I look at it?
Nigel: No.
Marty: Don’t look at it.
Nigel: No, you’ve seen enough of that one."


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Phaelax
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 00:25
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All this quantum talk makes me think of schrodinger's cat.

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 02:01
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The cat is a lie!

Really if you believe that every action we carry out or lack of action the opposite plays out in another universe then the cat is alive, dead, and non-existant at the same time.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 16:14
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Seriously, Qbert is old news.

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