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Geek Culture / Half Life (Now I Understand)

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Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 03:18
well as of now iam talking source, not half life

half life had a cleaner, bit more realistic look to it

and for the record, I am a man.

Ocho Geek
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 16:17
Half Life 2 Was based in East Europe, even if it was brown, It's an excellent recreation of that kind of setting

Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 16:25
definitly not.. but hey i live in sweden, all i know is green.

anyway every game i have seen with the source engine has had the same brown booring feeling, which isnt a good thing

and for the record, I am a man.

David R
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 16:44
Quote: "definitly not.. but hey i live in sweden, all i know is green."


I have the book "Raising the bar" and most of their reference art is from Eastern European cities (esp. Romania, Hungary etc.). If you read that you can see that a lot of the buildings and architecture are pretty faithful to the source material

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 16:51
Quik, i think you've been too spoiled by MLP - all the bright colours are making it hard for you to take in anything with less than 5 shades of pink in

Quik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 16:56
Quote: "I have the book "Raising the bar" and most of their reference art is from Eastern European cities (esp. Romania, Hungary etc.). If you read that you can see that a lot of the buildings and architecture are pretty faithful to the source material"


lower part of the eastern european*

and for the record, I am a man.

Ocho Geek
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 17:16
besides, in a dystopian future the only real choices are grey and greyish-colour

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 17:46 Edited at: 18th Jun 2011 17:48
I don't understand this bizzarre hatred of the colour brown

Anyway, I thought it was kinda blue:

http://www.swotti.com/tmp/swotti/cacheAGFSZIBSAWZLIDI=U29MDHDHCMUTVMLKZW8GR2FTAW5N/imghalf%20life%2022.jpg

Deathead
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 18:02 Edited at: 18th Jun 2011 18:03
I liked the way HL2 was done, it made great use of colours; the brown shades in the city was to reinforce that it's old, it is when you see the C17 tech, like the city scanners and projectors and structures that you can see this great contrast of new and old. The new stuff compared to the old like seeing the citadel to the old buildings, it draws your attention, and makes it overwhelming and intimidating.

Valve also used a-lot of subtle colours; in fact the reason why the citadel emits quite a blue ambient is because it is a cool colour, making the scene feel cold and unwelcoming, but yet in Black Mesa East it has a yellow ambient, yellow is a warm colour therefore makes it feel warm and welcoming unlike the Citadel; so even though subtle it greatly distinguishes the way you react to things in the two places; in the Citadel you know it is enemy territory and Black Mesa East you know it is a friendly place. It uses Colour Theory extremely well HL2 and gives a great atmosphere; unlike most games today...lol


bruce3371
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 19:57
Last couple of points I want to make before bowing out of this conversation;

Characters talking to you wasn't the only way the story was told in Half-Life and I'm not confusing atmosphere with storytelling, the atmosphere was the storytelling!! I believe that using atmosphere is a very subtle way of telling a story. Even if it doesn't make the story obvious, it gives hints about what is happening in the game world. In some ways, we supply our own story!

I like the way the game makes you think about what is happening, instead of force feeding it to you with cut scenes. IMO cut scenes are the computer game equivalent of using narrative in a TV drama series. It suggests that that the writers are incapable of using subtlety to tell a story. Or, even worse, it implies that the gamer/viewer, isn't intelligent enough to figure out the story for him/herself.

In a way, the same goes for Valve's decision not to have Gordon Freeman talk in the games. Instead of dictating to us what he sounds like and what he says, Valve encourages us to use our imagination, and come up with our own voice and replies. After all, isn't that the whole point of a First Person Shooter, that the game puts us into the character's body/mind? So if it's us that's in the character's body/mind, making our own way through the game, doesn't it make sense that we also imagine our own voice and come up with our own replies when NPCs talk to us?

Jeku
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 01:33
Quote: "anyway every game i have seen with the source engine has had the same brown booring feeling, which isnt a good thing"


I don't understand why people always liken an engine to the way a game looks that was made with the engine. I hear people say that Source or Unreal games all look the same. Surely the art assets have everything to do with that? All those textures and models can be swapped out for bright, blue sky if the developers wish. You can't really blame a game engine for a "shoddy" look and feel to a game.. i.e. too brown.


Software Engineer - Metamoki
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 02:19
Quote: " I don't see any other aspect in which Half Life is inferior to modern games"


The way i see it, (graphics aside) Half life 1 lacked the atmosphere and immersion of half life 2. HL1 The world around you felt static for the most part altho there were places with explosions, around you and falling debree and stuff, it wasnt enough to make the game world of HL1 to feel real.

for example. in HL1 there was a place where you fight against a gunship trying to kill you. you doge its attacks, hide behind stuff, the gunship moves around and thats ok

HL2: you are riding a car or a hoverboat, there is a gunship chasing after you, either shooting you with its chaingun, or trying to drop the bombs in front of you which you have to doge and it all looks really epic you flooring it, there is stuff blowing up all around you, you doge obstacles try to slip trough some tunnels to hide from the gunship which still manages to drop bombs through holes that lead to the surface, etc.

HL1 didnt have that. The closest it did have is you riding on a rail cart with people trying to shoot you from the platforms. They could have made that scene better by getting a few soldiers on another cart chasing your cart on the paralell tracks. Or at least the soldiers could have trown grenades in front of your rail cart, that would have been much cooler for the fast pased action/chase scene

I am sure they could have done it back in 1998, the game has tons of really great effects but i felt they were used too rarley.

Also the atmosphere was kindof boaring. Idk maybe its the location of Black Mesa, southwest, Desert, clear sky. Well what they could have done there is draw the sky in each level according to the time its supposed to take place, HL1 was a long game, i am sure they could have fit at least a 1.5 days in there kindof like they did in HL2 which took place over a period of 2 days.
They could have made HL1 a bit creepier since it has a bunch of zombies in it. And graphics isnt a question here. If anyone played the original Thief the dark project the graphics are worse than HL1 yet the creepy atmosphere created in that game was amazing! (really freaked me out when i played it)

So i really think Half life 1 could have been a much better game if they put more effort into the details, like atmosphere, immersion action scenes etc. All it takes is adding some more graphical content, tweak the lighting here and there, add some more animated/scripted events like falling stuff, explosions and generally try to get more movement into the enviroment around the charecter (maybe this might be limited by the CPU power back then, but still they could have still done better than the end-result of HL1) and finally, i think this is the most important one, improve the sound. good sound (like not good quality sound but good placement of the right sounds in the right places) can create amazing atmosphere even with lack of graphics. (again Thief the dark project. Horrible chunky graphics. pretty bad quality lighting and mediocre quality of sound. but they were all arranged and placed so well, combined, it created eery as hell atmosphere.) When i played thief the dark project, i was just as scared as when i played Condemned Criminal Origins (also extremley scary game)

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
Wolf
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 03:08 Edited at: 21st Jun 2011 08:02
Quote: "anyway every game i have seen with the source engine has had the same brown booring feeling,"


What about Dark Messiah?

I have to add, that now I finished Half Life² Episode 2, I felt stronlgy connected to the characters like in a good movie. However, I do not feel connected to my protagonist at all =/ They really screwed that up. But who cares, all the rest is brilliant



-Wolf

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Kezzla
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 10:32
I was blown away by half-life when it came out, the lighting was sooo cool, i Had the demo where that damn headcrab jump out at you then the zombie lurks out of the shadows, damn that was creepy.

at that point Id just begun making maps for doom and quake and then half-life came along and a whole new world of quality was opened up.

I also really liked blue-shift and the army one, I liked the simultanious stories entwining and it was really cool seeing an area and feeling as though ive been there before, only to see gordan running through off on his way to the surface.

fond memories.

those years were a good period in general for computer games.
thief III
half-life
serious sam
riven and myst

many more I cant remember right now.

may now have to dig through old boxes of cd's to find old treasured games.. ahh the memories

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
Quik
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 12:11
Quote: "What about Dark Messiah?"


was awesome, however i can still tell that it is the source engine. it looks messy and brownish..

still an awesome game though, game mechanics wise

and for the record, I am a man.

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 14:05
now the paralell stories with blue shift and opposing force were awesome and something i wish modern halflife2 had.

I liked opposing force the best out of the 2 Infact, opposing force finished off in the way where you just know there needs to be a sequel to it. Ive seen enough Barney in HL2 but i am secretley hoping a halflife 2 game will coume out featuring Shepard

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nackidno
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 15:13
Team Fortress 2 isn't that very grungy

Quik
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 16:03
now thats actually true nackidno! it isnt very grungy at all...

and for the record, I am a man.

bruce3371
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 16:47
@ PAGAN What you need to remember is that when Valve were making Half-Life way back in '98, they were an unknown, unproven, start out company making their first game. So yes, they probably could have done all those things you mentioned, but IMO they needed to err on the side of caution, as there wouldn't have been any guarantee that their first game sold well. I think it would have been too much of a risk for them to have poured all their resources into their very 1st game.

What they did, in the end, was to use their profits from their 1st game, to make their 2nd game even better. In fact, Half-Life was so succesfull, that they were able to do pretty much whatever they wanted with Half-Life 2, without some big publisher breathing down their necks, telling them what they could or couldn't do.

Quik
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 17:05
Quote: "In fact, Half-Life was so succesfull, that they were able to do pretty much whatever they wanted with Half-Life 2"


pretty sure Steam helped the economy aswell ^^

and for the record, I am a man.

PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 17:35
i guess that makes sence

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
bruce3371
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 18:17 Edited at: 21st Jun 2011 18:27
Quote: "pretty sure Steam helped the economy aswell"


Later on with Episodes 2 and 3, Team Fortress 2, Portal etc, yes, undoubtedly it did, But Steam wasn't around when Valve started work on HL2, at least not in the form we see today...

[edit]So much for me bowing out of this convo lol[/edit]

Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 01:12
Quote: "was awesome, however i can still tell that it is the source engine. it looks messy and brownish.."


Did you even read my post? The engine and the art assets are separate.


Software Engineer - Metamoki
Quik
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 01:17
Quote: "Did you even read my post? The engine and the art assets are separate."


definitly, but look at this: most games made in UDK i can tell is made in UDK because of how they look, most games made in Source i can tell is made with source

because each engine for example renders light in a specific way.

and for the record, I am a man.

Blobby 101
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 01:49
I just finished HL1 and the 2 expansions - really awesome games

Le Shorte
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 05:40
I didn't care for HL1... I'm in a very hard to come by boat here.

I loved Blue Shift, HL2, and HL2: E2

I thought Opposing Force and HL2:E1 were okay

And I just don't like HL1


I dunno why. It just didn't turn me on at all. At the time when I started playing shooters, I was more impressed by Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith

Cheesehead for life.
Lord Herakles the Great
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 09:13
Half Life is my favorite FPS series ever. I adore every Half Life game ever made, but Half Life 2 and Episode 2 are my favorites. I also like Duke Nukem, Bioshock, and System Shock. Everything Dark Forces/Jedi Knight is awesome too.

I for one love Half Life 2's visual style and the color brown. I don't find it boring at all. In fact I think it is better and more realistic than what I think is the excessively colorful and quite frankly cartoonish visual style so many games adopt.

Hail to the king baby
I love Evil Dead.
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 12:20
@Quik

As someone who uses UDK, I can assure you - there's massive differences in the looks of the games out there.

If you mean the in-progress works, then that's probably because they're using the stock UT3 models as placeholder.

Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 05:42
I can tell when someone uses UDK, when the game has awesome graphics. haha (Bioshock 1&2, UT3, Infinity Blade, Hawken, etc...)
Bioshock's Graphics rocked for it's time, and still rock today.

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Quik
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 14:23
Quote: "If you mean the in-progress works, then that's probably because they're using the stock UT3 models as placeholder."


mnooope, i mean the final product

and for the record, I am a man.

Ocho Geek
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 18:56
yeah, the shaders/lighting are all telltale to the engine used

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 20:54
Thing with UDK is, it has a full material editor with built in HLSL coding capabilities.

Every game has the opportunity to look incredibly different, and working on it and seeing alot of people's work, I can safely say I saw a wide variety of shaders in use.

The problem is everyone uses Normal Mapping + Specular, but the teams that hired high-quality HLSL guys were always lightyears ahead of the guys doing it in editor - this showed in the screenshots.

Metal Devil123
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 23:35
Maby a bit, only a bit offtopic, but I was reading about the zombies in the first page (didnt' read the other pages, I'm tired ) and was wondering how every zombie in any of the HL games has the lab coat and jeans on (with the exception of zombine, fast zombies and those poison zombies that sound like donkeys).

Ocho Geek
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 00:13
no, the HL2 zombies have refugee shirts on

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