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Geek Culture / Getting a new computer, need help choosing

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 19:28 Edited at: 18th Jun 2011 19:35
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I am hoping to get a new computer soon: I want to get one that is good with graphics and games, decent speed and resolution, quad core, can be either a laptop or desktop, reliable, wireless internet, and at least a 500gb HDD.

Here is a desktop that i've been looking at:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+Factory-Refurbished+Pavilion+Desktop+/+AMD+Athlon%26%23153%3B+II+Processor+/+6GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/2428097.p?id=1218326060959&skuId=2428097

The reason why i'm asking because i'm not that good with the insides of computers, and i know some of you guys know computers like the back of your hand. Could you please help me?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 19:58 Edited at: 18th Jun 2011 19:59
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I prefer building my own, then adding onto it as money comes in. The computer you're listing seems pretty nice, but it uses onboard graphics and a subpar processor. And it's an HP refurbished. And it's from bestbuy, ick!

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 20:08
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I like best buy! haha. but i thought the 1tb HDD is pretty nice. i would like to have the ability to replace the GPU. doesn't onboard mean you can't replace the GPU?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 20:25 Edited at: 18th Jun 2011 20:26
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No, it means there's a graphics processor on the motherboard itself. It's built into it. So you can go and buy a new graphics card and just drop it in whenever you get the money and/or get sick of the onboard graphics. Your motherboard specs list a PCI-E x16 slot, so you have a slot available for a proper graphics card.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 20:29
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Oh, Ok, thanks! what i'll mainly be using it for is Game development. i won't be doing alot of gaming, i plan to make some pretty high end graphics.

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Slow Programmer
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 20:36
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Take a look in your local Walmart. The ones in TN near me have had some good sales lately on computers they are trying to clear out to make room for new models.

There are two kinds of computer users. Those that use Macs and those that wish they did.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 21:29
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ASRock P67 EXTREME4 - $160
i5-2500K 3.3GHz - $220
G.Skill Ripjaws 2x4GB DDR3 1600 - $85
WD Caviar Black 500GB sata3 - $60
EVGA GeForce GTX 465 1GB - $140
Corsair 650w PSU - $75

Total: $740 (just add a case)

You never gave a budget, so here's what I came up with. (and probably isn't too far off from a system I'd build myself) Others may recommend a different GPU, I'm not the most knowledgeable one to ask in that area. The 2500K CPU is one of the fastest you can get right now and unless you start spending well over $300, you won't beat it. The WD drive will give great performance and if you need more space for storage later on, you can buy a 1TB WD Green drive for dirt cheap. The PSU I think is the best for the price, there was a SeaSonic I'd prefer because I've had experience with them, but it's nearly twice as much. The Corsair will have plenty of power and also carries more than enough amps for the graphics card. You could probably get away with the Corsair 550w just fine, but the 650 had a small rebate making it a little cheaper.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 18th Jun 2011 22:14
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@Slow Programmer
I don't think walmart isn't that good for computers, all they sell is these home computers for people who only check their E-mail, get on Facebook, and surf the web.

@Phaelax
I think that's a little over my budget, plus i don't want to have to deal with building my own since (as i stated above) i'm not that good with the insides of a computer. but i bet that would be a killer computer though.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Jun 2011 10:01
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Finding a decent quad-core system with a good graphics card will be tough to find under $400. The HP you listed looks ok, except for the graphics. And it only has a PCI x16 slot, not many GPUs to choose from.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 19th Jun 2011 15:22
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Quote: "And it only has a PCI x16 slot, not many GPUs to choose from."


Aren't all GPUs pci-e x16? That's the standard. If you mean it's not 2.0 or 3.0, I bet it is at least 2.0 because it's not exactly an old computer.

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Jeff032
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Posted: 19th Jun 2011 19:22 Edited at: 19th Jun 2011 19:22
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Quote: "And it only has a PCI x16 slot, not many GPUs to choose from."


You can use a PCI Express 2.0 GPU in a PCI Express x16 slot.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Jun 2011 20:57
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Quote: "You can use a PCI Express 2.0 GPU in a PCI Express x16 slot."


my bad, I thought 2.0 was slightly different. The specs on the website didn't state it was 2.0 so I didn't think it was.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 19th Jun 2011 21:46
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I have a friend who owns the same computer, i asked him about it, he seemed to be very supportive about buying it. he replaced his graphics card here awhile back to an AMD Radeon HD 5200 his runs just fine, plus i have two extra gigabytes of RAM i can use to expand it to 8, since it is so cheap, i can probably get another 8 GBs of Dedicated Gaming RAM too with it, since it is expandable to 16 gbs.

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Randomness 128
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Posted: 19th Jun 2011 23:26 Edited at: 19th Jun 2011 23:30
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Quote: "plus i have two extra gigabytes of RAM i can use to expand it to 8, since it is so cheap, i can probably get another 8 GBs of Dedicated Gaming RAM too with it, since it is expandable to 16 gbs."


Nope.

It has 4 DIMM slots, so only 4 sticks of RAM can be installed at once. Also, for dual channel mode to work (which improves memory bandwidth), you have to have matching amounts of memory in corresponding slots.

There will either be two 2 GB sticks and two 1 GB sticks (only way dual channel will work), three 2 GB sticks (most likely, since manufacturers tend to ignore dual channel memory completely), or a 4 GB stick and a 2 GB stick. To install 16 GB, you'd have to remove all of the original RAM and replace it with four 4 GB sticks.

I have 8 GB of RAM, and the most I've actually used while playing a game was a little over 4 GB. 6 GB will be plenty, anyway.
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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 18:58
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Ok then.... i can just go out and buy two 4gb sticks and then buy two 4gb sticks of dedicated gaming ram. Or is that wrong also?

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Indicium
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:00
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Quote: "dedicated gaming ram"


What's that?

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:01
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Dedicated gaming RAM is a certain part of memory that only games can use, increases load times and game performance.

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Indicium
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:06
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Um, I think you're talking about Video ram, which as far as I'm aware is built into the graphics card and cannot be upgraded.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:07 Edited at: 20th Jun 2011 19:08
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In a 32bit operating system, the graphics ram + computer ram cannot exceed 4gb.

In a 64bit operating system, you are limited by the maximum amount of memory supported by your motherboard. Motherboards have their own maximum ram limit.

"Gaming Ram" (not graphics ram) is just ram that is faster than general purpose cheaper memory. In order to take advantage of high speed ram, all the modules must be the same, or else it'll likely default to the slowest ram module.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:10
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Well, Whatever, you guys are the pros. I suck at this kind of stuff.

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Indicium
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:10
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I see. But I'm correct in saying that it's not dedicated?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 19:16 Edited at: 20th Jun 2011 19:17
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graphics ram is dedicated to applications that use it (usually through the graphics driver). I imagine it's a similar process as regular ram when you get down to it.

I'd say it's dedicated as much as regular ram is dedicated to application processes.

Gaming ram when referring to system ram is just regular ram with a fancy name.

In real world uses, graphics ram is in effect dedicated to gaming processes or special apps like photoshop and 3d modelling apps that can utilize it.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 21:34
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building a computer is easy, you can proboly find an online guide on how to build one, to make sure you dont miss important details, like heat paste,

all you have to do is make sure you get parts that are compatible.

I managed to build my first computer when i was about 11 and i assembled it correctly on the first try.

What else you can do is buy a cheaper used computer and use that as a base to upgrade it over time. Its fun and it makes you feel like a badass computer geek.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 20th Jun 2011 21:59
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Quote: "i plan to make some pretty high end graphics."


not on $350 you can't

seriously, I'd be looking near 250 for a decent graphics card

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 04:33
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Quote: "not on $350 you can't "


i dont get it why not? $350 would get you a kickass GPU!
i spent about that much last year for an HD5870 and i frigging love it! There hasnt been a single game so far it couldnt handle on full settings!

if you have 350 moneys for a graphics card, go ahead and use it, why spend less for something inferior? Good money buys good stuff, I learned that the hard way when i tried to buy the cheapest i could findand it ended up breaking or working like crap, and in the end all i really saved was 20-30 moneys.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 08:46
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Quote: "i dont get it why not? $350 would get you a kickass GPU! "

but not a whole computer and a kickass GPU xD


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 14:16
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with a kickass GPU even the crappiest systems will run most games on full with no lag. you can upgrade the rest of the system later and after your system becomes decent, your kickass GPU will get even better!

When i bought a Radeon HD5870, the first computer i installed it in was a 3ghz pentium 4, 1.5gig DDR2 ram and some crappy 10 gig harddrive from 1998.

I managed to run Metro 2033 on that system on full DX11 settings (i had win 7 already) with no lag. (the only lag i got was like 3 seconds of lag after a grenade explosion when it was all dusty and stuff)

so dont be afraid to spend more on a good GPU and upgrade the rest of the system later.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 20:22
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since it's such a good price i can get some better parts when they are needed. so im not too worried about the current GPU in it, i can get another one if this one doesn't turn out to be what i need.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 21:34
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why waste time and money, if you start waiting till the price goes down, by that time, a new gen of gpus will come out and you will no longer want the older gpu you planned on buying and start looking at the new ones which are just as expensive and just get the best thing you can afford right now, 350 bucks will get you a GPU that will be still good several years later.

dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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Ocho Geek
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 22:07
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Quote: "with a kickass GPU even the crappiest systems will run most games on full with no lag"


*facepalm*

no really, the whole Idea of the word "bottleneck" is your computer is held back to the level of the slowest component, it's why the windows rating works how it does

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Indicium
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Posted: 21st Jun 2011 23:06
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Quote: "no really, the whole Idea of the word "bottleneck" is your computer is held back to the level of the slowest component, it's why the windows rating works how it does "


Unless you're Lee...

Lee has no bottlenecks.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 13:18
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Quote: "no really, the whole Idea of the word "bottleneck" is your computer is held back to the level of the slowest component, it's why the windows rating works how it does"

sure youre right about the bottleneck, but it dosent mean a goog gpu wont significantley increase graphics performance, it just wont be able to reach its full potential. i did use high end graphics cards on crappy systems before and if your system has at least 1 gig of memory, the bottleneck shouldnt slow it down much. I got very good resultsin games running a GTX460 and a 5870 on single core P4 mashines. So despite of the bottlenecks, a good GPU will still provide you with a rather good gamining experience and good performance even tho the gpu can only run at 60% of its full potential because of the bottleneck. What i am saying is, this is a win-win situation, spend more money on a gpu, put it in your current computer which may not be all that great but you will definatley see increased game performance and will be able to comfortably play pretty much all modern games on medium- high settings. Meanwhile save up for better hardware while comfortably enjoying playing computer games. When you saved up and got yourself a kickass quadcore super uber duper rig, your graphics card will show its true colors and you will be able to play any game on highest settings and not worry about stuff like "i hope my computer is powerful enough for TES skyrim" no worries for the next 3 years.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 22:04
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Quote: "and not worry about stuff like "i hope my computer is powerful enough for TES skyrim" no worries for the next 3 years."

seeing as how it's going to be a console port, I wouldn't be so sure xD


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