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Geek Culture / How do torrent sites like piratebay never get shutdown?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 19:58
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uTorrent does not have a backdoor trojan. The actual "BitTorrent" client, however, is full of crapware and loads a ton of junk into the background and it's runs terribly inefficient on resources.

uTorrent's process name is uTorrent. Most people who claim their client had the trojan probably got infected by downloading illegal software.


As Jerico already mentioned (and me), you can download Linux distros through a torrent link and it is much faster. It was either Ubuntu or Mint that I used last that downloaded through a torrent.

Quote: "Speaking of torrents, how do you use BitTorrent? What stuff can you download from a torrent legally?"

People will link to a torrent file (.torrent extension). If you have a torrent client installed, those files will be associated with it automatically and clicking the link will add the torrent's resources to your list. It's kinda like a download manager.

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RAXMUX Games
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 20:06
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Quote: "uTorrent does not have a backdoor trojan. The actual "BitTorrent" client, however, is full of crapware and loads a ton of junk into the background and it's runs terribly inefficient on resources."


And thats why I never use torrents.

Just call me Raxmux
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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 20:36
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Quote: "Well yes, if you're downloading from the actual author of the software you should be mostly safe, but that accounts for possibly less than 0.001% of torrents."


Yeah, I was talking about torrents created by the author of the files you are trying to download. Those should be as trustworthy as the author herself.

As for bittorrent client itself, there's nothing wrong with it, there's just better options out there.

For something completely safe, I recommend transmission on linux and utorrent on windows. Both are virus free, I've been using them for years, and they are nice and efficient. They are like a download manager on crack, but instead of traditional downloads, they only handle .torrent files.

Once you keep an eye out for places that offer torrents instead of traditional downloads, you'll find there's a whole host of places that use them.

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Shadowdeath
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 21:51
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I find this odd.
I recently read this.
(Not quoted)

1. Uploading Illegal Media is ,well, extremely illegal
2. Downloading Media is only illegal when it goes against federal or local law
3. The sites themselves are not illegal, but the content on them is, since they were uploaded illegally.

Think about this.
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xplosys
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Posted: 24th Jun 2011 23:38
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Quote: "3. The sites themselves are not illegal, but the content on them is, since they were uploaded illegally."


Here is the where it gets confusing because the content is not on the site. The site only links to it and links are not illegal.

Brian.

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 00:17
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I really hate it when people hear the word "torrent" and immediately assume it's illegal. Torrents are brilliant.

Why?

It really helps drive communities. For something like the launch of a small Linux distro, the network bandwidth can be extremely expensive - especially if the image is in the sum of several GBs. Distributing the image via torrent ensures that the data is available from many locations all over the world as opposed to a single centralized location. In this latter scenario, what if the server were to go down? No-one would be able to download the image. But with torrents there should always be several people seeding it meaning that it will always be available.

I was actually thinking of starting a torrent-style distribution website for DBPro and FPSC media, but I didn't think that there would be enough interest for it to take off.


Blitzwerks | Indie Development Team
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Shadowdeath
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 00:43
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@xplosys
Exactly. That's why it's hard to determine whether it's legal or not.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 01:17
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torrents are just too good at digital distribution. That's the problem with them. One of those things, that if not used for malicious purposes, can make the overall computer experience better.

Shame that it's used to steal everything, and break other peoples computers.

And a real shame companies can't get it through their collective heads that DRM only hurts the user, as the torrenters get a DRM-free version.

Developers should rather focus on how they can make it more attractive to buy the game/product than torrent it.

That's why Netflix and iTunes do so great, even while a lot of the industry falling apart...

But yeah, torrents are an amazing file sharing system, and they're just too damn good at it.

Imagine if they had become more standard, and not mostly devoted to stealing content..... or, just not been totally associated with them.


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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 06:00 Edited at: 25th Jun 2011 06:07
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Quote: "here is how it works: you make a .rar file (usually) and then upload it to the torrent site, and the torrent site creates a .torrent file for you to download.
"

Err... Part of the greatness of a torrent is that you only upload the torrent file. One could conceivable make a "torrent generating" application where you upload a file to their site and they generate the torrent for you, but I've always used my torrent client to generate a torrent.

So you pass around this smallish file that says /where/ to get information and approximately what information you'd get (checksums I'd think).

[edit]

Also, thepiratebay.org has been taken down many, many times. It's had ISPs shut down on it, it's had state police agencies physically come and shut down its servers, etc.

The thing is there are some really dedicated people behind TPB, and some great lawyers. I like the idea of freedom of beneficial information (meaning, I like the fact that you can download educational texts through thepiratebay illegally. Not that I'd do that, of course), but video game/movie/audio piracy is 100% not on firm moral grounds! (like that needed to be said )


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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 11:15 Edited at: 25th Jun 2011 11:16
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I actually hope that TPB stays up for the foreseeable future. Sure, it's the biggest piracy threat on the net - but the ethos behind it is brilliant. The guys there are really passionate about freedom of information / speech. They support a lot of projects, and have several of their own - do your bit to support them! [for this reason].

I seem to remember they were considering hosting their servers on a satellite, and also buying that independent country left behind after WWII.

Also check out some of their legal threats - they're pretty funny!


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ionstream
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 12:10
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Quote: "The guys there are really passionate about freedom of information / speech."


If by freedom you mean music and speech you mean movies, then you're right.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 13:43
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Quote: "The guys there are really passionate about freedom of information / speech."


Sharing protected works, yeah.



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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 13:50
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Quote: "I was actually thinking of starting a torrent-style distribution website for DBPro and FPSC media, but I didn't think that there would be enough interest for it to take off."


This is a great idea. I'm so sick of not being able to find old programs on TGC. I would be willing to create, and host any dbp related torrents indefinately on my local network.

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 14:39
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Quote: "If by freedom you mean music and speech you mean movies, then you're right."

Quote: "Sharing protected works, yeah."


How did I know that would happen.
http://thepiratebay.org/doodles
http://baywords.com/
https://www.ipredator.se/

You can quite clearly see that aside from the obvious reason why the statement I made may be ironic, they are extremely passionate about anyone being able to express themselves freely without the censorship and red tape of government.


Quote: "This is a great idea. I'm so sick of not being able to find old programs on TGC. I would be willing to create, and host any dbp related torrents indefinately on my local network."

Hit me up on the email - it's precisely the reason why I thought TGC could do with one. I created a local proof-of-concept site and it worked just fine, so with at least 2 people seeding 24/7 initially it seems like it would be feasible. Perhaps some kind of integration with the TGC upload feature could be worked out? Anywho, pop me a mail I'd like to discuss it further if you're willing.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 14:55
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Heck ya I'm all for it. I shot you an email.

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xplosys
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 16:04
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Quote: "passionate about freedom of information"


It's easy to be passionate when it's other peoples information/money you're giving away.
Bottom line: All the good they may believe in and stand for is wiped out by all the wrongs they willingly and knowingly allow, abet and encourage.

Brian.

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Quik
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 16:22
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iam honestly not sure if pirate bay is at blame for the content, or atleast more than any other site...

and for the record, I am a man.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 19:09
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Quote: "Quote: "I was actually thinking of starting a torrent-style distribution website for DBPro and FPSC media, but I didn't think that there would be enough interest for it to take off."

This is a great idea. I'm so sick of not being able to find old programs on TGC. I would be willing to create, and host any dbp related torrents indefinately on my local network."


I have massive amounts of storage on my web server, I can mirror whatever files you guys want.

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Plystire
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 19:32 Edited at: 25th Jun 2011 19:34
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Guilty by association? I've grown up with the firm notion that if someone's doing something wrong, you know they're doing wrong, you know you can stop them from doing it, but don't do anything, you're just as guilty as they are.

I'm all for freedom of information and whatever, but these guys are doing it wrong. YouTube took the right course by supporting third party copyright claims and taking down suspicious content, can you imagine what kind of site YT would be if they hadn't? Movies would be uploaded everyday illegally, music (which is not hard to rip from YT) would be everywhere, and there would be practically no personal videos anymore. I mean, it's the same as TPB, it's not YT's fault that people are uploading illegal content, after all, they're not doing anything wrong, so they don't HAVE to do anything about it, but they did.. they chose to stop the people that they saw were doing stupid things, and I say good on them for it! TPB can die for all I care.


~Plystire

Only those who sow the seeds of their desires will reap their benefits later.
However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 19:39
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Quote: "it's not YT's fault that people are uploading illegal content, after all, they're not doing anything wrong, so they don't HAVE to do anything about it,"


YouTube host the files themselves, so if they host copyrighted content they are breaking the law whether they know it or not.



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bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 19:52
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Quote: "YouTube host the files themselves, so if they host copyrighted content they are breaking the law whether they know it or not.
"


It's only illegal for a provider like youtube if they know it. If they get notice, they have to remove it, which is why they remove it.

TPB doesn't host illegal content as far as I know, just the .torrent files which do not contain proprietary content.

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xplosys
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 20:16
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Does TPB make a profit and if so, how? They must be paying for these servers somehow.

Brian.

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Indicium
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 20:21
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I'm guessing ads.

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 20:34
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Quote: "I have massive amounts of storage on my web server, I can mirror whatever files you guys want."

Thanks for the offer, but the only files being hosted are the .torrent files which are a couple of KB each. You could help out by seeding some of the uploads though


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Shadowdeath
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 23:03
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Wait, what is the uploading for?
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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 23:54
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Quote: "Wait, what is the uploading for?"

Sorry, I'm sort of hijacking the thread a little - so just ignore it. But possibly an alternative to the file upload on TGC forums for media, binaries etc.


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Shadowdeath
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Posted: 26th Jun 2011 00:32
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Okay.
Thanks for answering.
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Plystire
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Posted: 26th Jun 2011 20:49 Edited at: 26th Jun 2011 20:53
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So it's illegal to upload illegal content... perfectly legal to host links TO illegal content...

So, everyone seeding/downloading said torrent are technically "uploading" the actual file(s) to everyone else, thus downloading becomes uploading and is therefore illegal. Hmmm... is there a reliable way to track where your torrent data is coming from?


[EDIT]

And seriously... YouTube not knowing about illegal content on their site is excusable, but these guys have no excuse. Look at their name! They've branded themselves a hotspot for pirated material. I only recall 2 instances where someone made a site with the term "pirate" (or the likes thereof) in its name simply because they fancied pirate movies and novels and stories about pirates and thought they were cool.


~Plystire

Only those who sow the seeds of their desires will reap their benefits later.
However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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Quik
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Posted: 26th Jun 2011 21:17
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Quote: "And seriously... YouTube not knowing about illegal content on their site is excusable"


not really no, Iam pretty sure its their responsibility.

Its like saying movie stores have valid excuses to keep pirated movies there...

and for the record, I am a man.

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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 26th Jun 2011 21:52
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Quote: "Hmmm... is there a reliable way to track where your torrent data is coming from?"

Yes, when you're downloading you can just look at the IPs of the peers you're connected to. That's literally how easy it is to track someone downloading illegal content. The publisher just downloads the torrent themselves and harvests a huge peer list of offending IPs.


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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 26th Jun 2011 21:55 Edited at: 26th Jun 2011 21:57
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Legal torrents? They exist? I thought that was all a great dream!

Boffin one: Hey, lets do away with centralised servers, and allow a vast array of untapped user machines pave the way to the worlds most noble and idealistic network built on sharing and fair play!

Boffin two: Hey great idea! This technology will benefit all of mankind and make opensource cheaper to host than ever!

Average user: Yay! New free porn!
Average user 2: Free movies!!
Average user 3: Free software!!!
Suspicious user: Nuclear blueprints!!!!!

Boffins: We should have gone with the golf ball serving toaster.
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Quik
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Posted: 26th Jun 2011 22:00
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funny how few get sued over it then.... x)

and for the record, I am a man.

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Indicium
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 01:01
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Hm, maybe it doesn't stand up as well in court as it seems, I mean, is it enough proof simply that you were connected?

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Quik
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exactly, thats why, and because of the fact that they cannot hunt down everyone

but i BELIEVE that the main thing is that they need SOLID proof of it.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 04:48 Edited at: 27th Jun 2011 04:49
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Quote: "Legal torrents? They exist? I thought that was all a great dream!"

I wouldnt click them, it sounds too fishy, probably something generally considered so illegal that everyone will try to avoid you for the rest of your life.

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Isocadia
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 10:09
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Also, with the torrent downloading, couldn't you simply block off the upload, and only download? That way you're still legal, right?
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Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 10:35
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Would you be able to block off the upload? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using a torrent?

Your sig has been redacted by...
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 10:37
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Most good torrent clients allow you to set the upload speed, and there is even one particular client that only leeches and doesn't seed.



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Isocadia
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It does defeat the purpose I guess, but if there are enough stupid people out there seeding anyway, I guess most people wouldn't bother uploading.
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Plystire
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 12:36 Edited at: 27th Jun 2011 12:37
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Quote: "Its like saying movie stores have valid excuses to keep pirated movies there..."


Hardly. A movie store stocks their own inventory. YouTube does not.


Quote: "That's literally how easy it is to track someone downloading illegal content. The publisher just downloads the torrent themselves and harvests a huge peer list of offending IPs."


Does this trace back through proxies? Though... I suppose a vast majority of "pirates" these days wouldn't even bother (or know how) to set that up.


Quote: "but i BELIEVE that the main thing is that they need SOLID proof of it."


How is hard evidence of an IP streaming data of pirated material any less solid than using an email in court?


~Plystire

Only those who sow the seeds of their desires will reap their benefits later.
However, I have seeds of my own to tend to. I don't have time to be someone else's watering can.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 15:09
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Quote: "How is hard evidence of an IP streaming data of pirated material any less solid than using an email in court?"


How's this evidence presented? You can't just say "hey, I saw this IP downloading some illegal material". You actually need to prove that they were doing it.



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Quik
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 15:20
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Quote: "Hardly. A movie store stocks their own inventory. YouTube does not. "

no, but youtube uploads the videos unto their own webbsite.

and for the record, I am a man.

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xplosys
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I'm fairly sure that your ISP has at least some information about when and where you were on the web at any given time, as well as how much (and possibly what) you download. Just like phone company records can tell when and who you called for how long. Companies have already sued and won cases where a single individual has downloaded things they should not have. I think the problem with this is one of logistics.

It's easier to go after the pusher than every one of the junkies, but again we run into the problem that the pusher doesn't hold the drugs, making it difficult to charge him with anything. Add to that the pusher is normally in another country where laws may be more lenient or non-existent.

At some point, we may start to see more pressure placed on hosting companies and service providers to police the web, but doing so across oceans is going to be tough.

Brian.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 15:50
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Quote: "but youtube uploads the videos unto their own webbsite"


no, the public does.


Hmm, I wonder what's coming in 2011?
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 16:01
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The thing is pirates are safe from ISPs ratting them out in Britain. Virgin released a slew of controversial court cases when they gave prosecuters data on pirates. Guess what happened? 30% of their British customer base left them because they felt they were untrustworthy with private data.

So after seeing that happen, no ISP in Britain is gonig to hand data out now.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Indicium
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 16:22
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I left because Virgin sucked.

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Shadowdeath
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Here's the problem with pirating.
Pirating Movies/DVDs/Music/etc. is bad. It's inexcusable, and should be stopped. Here's the problems with pirating games/add-ons/mods/models/etc.:

1.When you pirate that of previously mentioned, you're getting an exact copy (Hopefully) of what you want. This is a copy of a licensed copy.

2.When you buy games off of a network, like Steam, you're getting a LEGAL (un?)licensed copy of the game. Now, don't fight me with this. My sister's friend bought Dragon Age 2 LEGALLY off of Steam. When she opened it, it said that it was an unlicensed copy. She couldn't buy any expansions or online content. The would happen if you pirate it, right?

3.Steam is not the maker of the games they sell. They only make some of them. The files are just HOSTED ON THEIR SERVER. If similar files are hosted on an illegal server, but serve the same purpose...is that okay?

4.Steam makes you pay for the files they host. Torrent Sites do not. Again, they try to serve the same purpose.

5.Since Steam does not own all the games they HOST, they cannot ban everyone who pirates their stock. Only people who directly own what is pirated can sue.

6. Again, Only People who DIRECTLY OWN the pirated software can sue. (I might be wrong on this)

7. Since neither Torrent Sites or Steam directly own what they have up for download, and they both have clear Terms of Use, which ones are wrong?

(8. I might be wrong on some of this, and I am sorry if I am. I was just trying to state a point. Sorry again if I was wrong on any of this. There's more I'd like to say, but that's all I want to post. Thank you for reading.)
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Indicium
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What does piracy have to do with steam? Steam obviously have to pay the publisher/developer of the game for every copy they sell. It'd be like me downloading a game and selling it to people otherwise.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 18:53
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Steam is legal and licenses games for sale. The games you receive are legal and licensed.

Your girlfriend obviously encountered a bug which she could have fixed by contacting steam.

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Shadowdeath
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Posted: 27th Jun 2011 19:57
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I didn't say it wasn't legal.

@Indicium
I understand that. That's not what I was talking about.
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