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Geek Culture / New Cert in the mix

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old_School
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 05:20 Edited at: 13th Jul 2011 05:22
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Me and my business partner were discussing how the A+ cert has gone way down hill lately. So we decided to make our own basic repair tech cert. Right now I'm working on the book/study guide for the test that will be given to obtain the cert. Unlike A+, this cert test will be open book reflecting the idea as a list of troubleshooting questions as if you were in the real field and allowing you to cross reference the book for solutions.

The test will be given as a downloadable exe program. The cert will have three forms. Reg., Expert and Master. Passing grade starts at 80 out of 100 questions correct. This is a much higher standard than A+. We will also create a 1000 or more data base of possible questions on the test. The test will cover everything from computer theory to computer history and everything in between. A good tech should know or have the ability to cross ref any question thrown at him/her in the field. This cert will be a true example of what a real Computer Repair Tech should be. They will have a basic understanding of all OS's not just windows. The tech will also be able to tell you what the major differences our between each OS.

So as you can see this will be a fairly big cert/project to complete. Once the Cert project is completed, you will be able to Download and take the test. Study guide will likely cost around 100.00 U.S. and the test will cost 100.00 for the software. This means you will have a unlimited amount of tries for about the same price as Com Tia's A+ test which seems to have gone toward customer service and not repair.
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xplosys
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 15:26
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When people want to work in a particular field of expertise, they can obtain certifications that will increase their chances of being hired or getting better pay by demonstrating their knowledge of said field. These certifications are developed by entities that are highly esteemed and recognized as leaders in their field.

-Is this to be an internal certification for your organization? I assume by the price that it is not.

-What particular field or area does this certification apply to?

-What qualifies you to develop and give any weight to this certification?

-Which organizations will recognize this certification?

Brian.

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Van B
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 15:37
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Raven? - is that you?

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 16:00
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Do test.
Have Google on other tab.
Acheive new qualification that doesn't really mean anything.

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 17:17
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It's not enough to simply make a random certification, it has to actually be acknowledged officially otherwise it's worthless.



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old_School
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 01:38 Edited at: 14th Jul 2011 01:45
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Im aware a new cert must gain ground and be recon. with the industry leaders. Once the project is completed, we fully plan on disccuing the cert with microsoft, apple and the other big name companies. I use to work for both Apple and Hp so I have inside contacts I can speak to about supporting and pushing the cert along.

To answer the other questions above. Me and my business partner were discussing how the A+ cert has been altered to be more of a custoemr service based cert and no longer a prof. cert. So we decided to create a cert simular to the old A+ cert that would certify a person has good Pc repair skills and a good understanding of computers overall as a whole. the test will not just cover windows, it will cover Apple, Linux, UNIX and Microsoft. The idea is a good tech should at lest have a basic understanding of all OS's out there and know the basic differences. Thsi way he/she is free to choose which Os best fits their needs or so they at lest know the differnces enough to persue a education in that OS for life.

This cert will also force the canidate to learn how to cross ref information properly as you would on the field when you would search for a solution. A lot of thought went into this project. The idea is to have a cert with a higher standard and produce techs who accualy know something other than how to answer a phone anread a screen providing support. The current A+ test after close review seeems more geared toward help desk or India type support and not a true profesion. When I think of Pc repair, I think white collar not blue collar.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 05:12
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I don't recall any customer service questions on my test when I took my A+. I have all my exam questions still here, including the sites and such we used for studying, and did not find any customer support related questions. I'm curious to know if you have any site links I can take a look at to see how much it has changed from when we took it last. Things must have drastically changed, mind you Cisco was just making an appearance at the time I was finishing my Network and Internet Security Specialist program.

However...

You have a long uphill climb if you hope that your contacts in Apple or HP will help push this along. There are more organizations involved with setting the certification standards than most realize. Those of us that have been in this field for a long time know that it will not happen over night. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm suggesting that you have everything you need with you at the time of presentation. Some of these people will not even get you past the first hurdle if you don't have everything organized in a well thought-out presentation.

Best of luck.

- BlackFox
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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 06:56
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And again... anyone with Google can complete and get a perfect grade. Also, allowing unlimited tries for one price will ensure that EVERYONE passes--- hardly a good gauge at all.


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Van B
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 14:02
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At the end of the day, most techies don't need or want certification. It's employers and managers who like techies to be certified, but the chances are that it proves nothing about their skill level.

I'd say that customer service was a bigger problem than knowing the differences between OS's. A techie who is good at dealing with people and conducting meetings is more likely to get promoted.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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old_School
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 20:12
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I have to disagree Van. Alot of techs i kow want to be certified and get the cert. Managers as well want to see the Certs. If no one wanted the Certs, they woud not cost you thousands of dollars in training to obtain them. A cert is in theory a peice of paper but the skills required to get the paper is what matters. Like my degrees, they hang on my wall and collect dust. But they are a degree and state that I spent a extensive amout of time training in those particular fields to study a subject. Also certs give you a since of pride for a job well done.

I honestly as well not to sound rude but dont understand how you guys whom are mods can say basicly certs are a waste. Certs prepare you for the field and establish your new life/career. I would be dead in the water with out my certs. It is true you could just spend years in the field or at home studing the field on your own and finaly after years get some where. Even then though you will allways be behind the guys with the paper. Push comes to shove with out the paper your on your butt. The paper will also help you keep your job basicly. An it sets a good exsample for your self, family, community and others in work place.
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BlackFox
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 21:21 Edited at: 17th Jul 2011 17:52
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[Withdrawn from discussion]

- BlackFox
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Van B
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 22:47
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Quote: "I honestly as well not to sound rude but dont understand how you guys whom are mods can say basicly certs are a waste."


What has being a mod got to do with it?

Perhaps it's more relevant that I've been an IT professional for 17 years, and can guarantee that if your certification isn't from Microsoft or a similarly respected corporation, it won't get you anywhere. To be blunt, your certification isn't worth the paper it will never be written on. I don't know why you make these threads, you don't listen to people, you know best about everything, and it's getting really old.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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xplosys
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 23:37
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You're an entertaining guy old_School, I'll give you that!
Best of luck with your certification.

Brian.

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Plystire
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 23:53
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I always found getting an interview to be the hardest part. Once I'm in there, talking to someone, there's no question that I can prove my worth.

Bring a thumb drive with example projects on it. Ensure that these projects are made in the same languages/use the same techniques that the hiring company is looking for.
That in itself tells them, you know what you're doing. Bringing the drive and being prepared tells them you know how to come prepared and get things done. If you made one of the projects with a team, that tells them you're a team player.

Sure, I had certs, but none of them pertained to my job really. Sure, I had a degree, but it wasn't even from an accredited college. I got hired because I showed them what I could do.


On the topic of a new certification. Why? If the A+ cert is going down hill, how would a new cert make a difference?


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 16th Jul 2011 23:55
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Oh my god guys, I can't believe you!

I have a certificate from Dave's PC Emporium in PC Awesomeness, Level 14! It makes me an IT expert dunnit!?

What is all the fuss about anyway?
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Plystire
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Posted: 17th Jul 2011 00:02
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Forgot to mention this, but with all the talk about using Google to finish online tests...... was I the only one who had a timed test? I mean, you literally had 20~30 seconds to answer the question or it was marked wrong and the test moved on. If you failed, you either had to pay to take it again, or it gave you an entirely different group of questions for a "one more shot" freebie.

Seriously, I could not use Google to look things up without wasting money.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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old_School
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Posted: 17th Jul 2011 00:06 Edited at: 17th Jul 2011 00:09
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The point I was making Van is your a Mod and you kinda set the example for the younger kids on the forms. Impying/Saying most peole don't want or need certs is like saying "hey kids dont go to school just learn it on your own". Im not stating that, that was what you ment but some may get that impression. Understand some people on the forums look up to the mods and seriously listen to their advice/comments.

Having all this said, Im not implying my cert program will be as good as Comp Tia or anything on that level. I'm stating that certs overall are good for people starting out in the field. They also have other benifits as well. An it would be very discouraging to tell someone to not consider obtaining a cert or attend college in the persuit of obtaining certs. Higher education is allways best in my thoughts. True you can lern everything taught in the classroom in about the same if A. You have a job in the feild all ready B. You work 8 hours a day in the field and our able to learn hands on. However, their is still alot hands on wise you will miss and not know. I knew alot of "hands on guys" and they all run shops around here as well. They are ok repair shops. Not implying Im the best but Ive fixed a few of their repairs in the past. My standing is certs + college = best result. You can argume that I'm wrong but thats my personal view.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 17th Jul 2011 01:12 Edited at: 17th Jul 2011 01:12
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Quote: "The point I was making Van is your a Mod and you kinda set the example for the younger kids on the forms. Impying/Saying most peole don't want or need certs is like saying "hey kids dont go to school just learn it on your own"."

I think you will find that no one is getting that impression. I think Van is saying that if someone really feels they need a Cert... they should get it from a corporation like Microsoft. And even then, it's not really necessary. Getting a Cert from you and your partner will mean very little in comparison to a Cert from elsewhere.

At least that's what I'm getting at.

AKA Jenkins
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Jul 2011 05:09 Edited at: 17th Jul 2011 05:10
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Certifications and demo projects aren't the only thing employers need nowadays. The company I work is hiring and I've been enlisted to help with the interview process. A lot of the reason we may decide not to hire someone is because they don't know basic computer science principles. For example, if you can't name a design pattern, other than a singleton, then we will seriously question your credentials. We can do this because in this industry there are a lot of resumes kicking around and employers can be really choosy. A Joe Schmoe cert from Mr. Noname's "business" means nada if you don't actually know the things you're learning.

----------------------------------

Mods aren't here to be role models! At least I'm not We're trustworthy and like-minded programmers and artists. Nobody checked my criminal record when I signed up


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Plystire
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Posted: 17th Jul 2011 08:29
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Quote: "For example, if you can't name a design pattern, other than a singleton, then we will seriously question your credentials."


I always found this to be a little unfair. At one point I didn't know what a singleton was, but had apparently used it a few times before. I understand the need to be able to recognize patterns in code, though, so can't blame them.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Jul 2011 09:20 Edited at: 17th Jul 2011 09:21
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Well, a key computer science principle is design patterns. If you learned it and understood it, you will know it. Odds are if you're self-taught you probably won't know them, but you'll have used some of them before. At least it gets past the liars who claim to have degrees.


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Plystire
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Posted: 18th Jul 2011 07:17
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Quote: "At least it gets past the liars who claim to have degrees."


Worst liar I ever met was during my college days... dude was claiming he already had his master's in comp sci, but wanted to get his bachelors... it was no wonder most people avoided him.

I have my BS CS, but never learned what a singleton was. We were only taught the key buzz words of that time, don't recall that being one of them. I suppose that word should have come up in one of the design classes, but it either came up while I was asleep/playing a game or it never did come up.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Jul 2011 08:04 Edited at: 18th Jul 2011 08:04
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You're like me, then. I have my BS in CIS (Computer Information Systems), which is like CS but with more programming and less theory. We didn't take any linear algebra courses, or any courses that taught design patterns. The actual way I learned was after bombing a few interviews I picked up some books and learned what the hell a dot product was all about, and what factory patterns are, etc. Don't feel too bad that you don't remember it from computer science, but I'm almost 100% you would have covered design patterns in that degree!


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 18th Jul 2011 08:33
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I have a "BS" in BS. Just act confident, say you can do it, and learn quickly!

http://lossofanonymity.wordpress.com
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Plystire
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Posted: 18th Jul 2011 21:19
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Quote: "learn quickly"


That's on my resume!


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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Jeku
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Posted: 20th Jul 2011 03:08
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Anybody can and will say they learn quickly. It's so cliche. You need the paperwork to back it up. Proper paperwork, that is.


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Plystire
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Posted: 20th Jul 2011 08:01
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You mean, like, paperwork from a certified testing corporation that run timed tests on how quickly the subject adapted to a situation? If they don't already do that, I smell a business opportunity.

There's a certification most ANY field could get! "I'm certified in learning fast!"


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
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bruce3371
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Posted: 20th Jul 2011 16:06
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Quote: ""I'm certified in learning fast!""


Me, I'm just plain certified lol

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old_School
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Posted: 26th Jul 2011 07:16
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Below is a incomplete version of the certification software I been working on. I have the Hardware "Book" part wrote but I'm waiting on replies for grammar corrections etc still so it’s not included in this version. The glossary part has not been written and the test has not been created yet either. But his will give you a good idea about the software and how it will work. This versions splash screen is not working correctly yet either. The sleep command is not taking on forum1 for some reason. Anyway, enjoy the preview:

www.uokgames.com/software/Incomplete-Hardware-Cert.rar

If you would like to help, please PM or email me. Once we start selling this cert, it will cost $150.00 for the entire software suite. That includes the books, cert test and tools that come with it. To me it’s great deal and I would of killed for it when I was starting out. If you guys help, you can get free copies of course. So if you want free copies please help. Getting people to grammar check will be a huge help.

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