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Geek Culture / The "Pay before it's finished" game purchase model

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Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 4th Aug 2011 20:56
It seems to be more and more common for developers to release alpha versions of their products for sale, and then use early adopter payments to fund the rest of the development. How do you guys feel about that, and what do you think are the pros and cons?

My thoughts are, from the developer's perspective, it makes it financially easier to develop games. It also allows the game to gain exposure earlier, and when it's finally released, you have a loyal fan base. You also get your product tested by a massive test team as you go along, plus get lots of feedback.

I guess the negatives are you're tied into finishing a product (unless you add a waver to the terms), your initial sales will likely be for a lower price, you have to routinely produce updates and blog about the game to keep your audience happy. You have to worry about copy protection and other issues from day 1.

From the buyers perspective, you get to help shape the game with feedback, and you get to see it grow, but surely you'll be bored of it before it's complete? Isn't it more of a negative experience?

What do people think? I'm considering it as a business model.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Aug 2011 21:12
I dunno, if you mean stuff like the Halo beta, as opposed to Minecraft, it's a great community-creator relationship.

The community gets to taste the game before paying for it, also getting to help shape the game as they play. The creator gets advertising as word-of-mouth travels from people's experience of the beta. (And negative feedback can easily be countered with "it's a beta.")

The company also gets a free focus testing group who are happy to lay their game.

If we're talking about Minecraft, it's too unique to consider. Let's be honest, Notch never expected it to take off the way it has, and it's development plan is essentially the same as any game made on these forums, because it's essentially a sized-up and popular version of that.

Fallout
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Posted: 4th Aug 2011 23:10
Quote: "The community gets to taste the game before paying for it, also getting to help shape the game as they play."


No, I'm talking about the "Pay before it's finished" game model, where you buy it while it's an alpha and way from unfinished. Then you keep getting free updates as it moves through to completion.

The only example I've bought was Live For Speed, but that felt finished. I noticed Project Zomboid is still deep in development, but costs £5. I can see the benefits to the developer, but I wonder what the negatives are, if there are any?

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Aug 2011 23:27
I haven't heard of many games other than Minecraft that do that.

IanM
Retired Moderator
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 5th Aug 2011 00:16
About the only down-side I see is that when individuals have paid, they expect the final product, even if you haven't reached your funding target.

Apart from that, I can't think of anything else.

Something to try: http://www.kickstarter.com/

BatVink
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 01:05
You probably need a reasonable reputation before embarking ion something like this, or have a huge marketing budget. The worst case scenario is that you get a small uptake that generates an insubstantial amount of income, small feedback sample sizes (with too high an error margin) and you are left with a commitment but very little money.

It sounds very negative, but it's a possible and highly likely outcome. I once had a business venture that relied on a reasonable uptake. I was convinced it was a fantastic idea but I ended up refunding money because I hit the scenario I just described.

Insert Name Here
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Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 5th Aug 2011 01:12
I think it only works with certain types of games. Indie games as a general rule are excellent for this, because they tend to be light on story but gameplay is often unique, thus this strategy allows the user to help mold the gameplay so that it is perfect by the time it is finished. For the next blockbuster FPS however, it's dreadful - the gameplay's never going to be that groundbreaking lets be honest, and to be drip-fed the plot would be dreadful.

So to conclude: For indie games such as Minecraft or the stuff made on this forum, yes

For the next Half Life/Halo/Crysis, no

Oolite
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Location: Middle of the West
Posted: 5th Aug 2011 02:50
I like this way of a selling a game, helps the developer and the consumer alike.

On the developers side it gives them the funding to complete the product and more importantly, the motivation to keep developing. On the consumer side, they get to help develop a game to their needs or wants(granting that the developer is good at what they do and actually listens to the community).

The biggest problem here is that the game needs to massively take off in the community, there are probably plenty of projects around with this model but only a handful that I can think of that work. I believe the game needs to be relatively well finished, so people have something to play whilst waiting for the more considerable updates.

Kickstarter is a nice little site but again, it still takes a very good project to really kick off. 8bitFunding is another site that has a similar model. I know that it took a few words from Notch and a lot of other developers on twitter to get nearly three times the amount for No Time To Explain, that and the game actually looks quite decent.
Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 03:59
I'd start off with a free, cut-down version of the game, and when (if) it gets popular release a paid version and stop updating the cut-down version, sort of like what Notch did with Minecraft.



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Fallout
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 09:44
Quote: "About the only down-side I see is that when individuals have paid, they expect the final product, even if you haven't reached your funding target."


I noticed that Project Zomboid has a small disclaimer saying something like "You're paying for the game as it stands NOW, and no further updates are guaranteed.". Perhaps that's the way to go, to cover your backside.

Quote: "You probably need a reasonable reputation before embarking ion something like this, or have a huge marketing budget. The worst case scenario is that you get a small uptake that generates an insubstantial amount of income, small feedback sample sizes (with too high an error margin) and you are left with a commitment but very little money."


I would see that as a problem if my business model wasn't kind of already like that. At the moment I make games, with no profit in sight until I complete. I release small alphas to a handful of interested people and get some wishy washy feedback. I'm not guaranteed to make enough money from the game over it's sales life either, to make up for the time spent on it. So while I see the risk, it doesn't feel any worse than my current situation.

Quote: "So to conclude: For indie games such as Minecraft or the stuff made on this forum, yes

For the next Half Life/Halo/Crysis, no "


Totally agree there. Yes, it has to be something with evolving game mechanics, that has a sandbox feel. Each time you release a new feature, the game as a whole takes on a new gameplay edge. I guess the model has to be, you provide the sandbox and a few toys, and the community helps you craft the rest of the toys.

Quote: "The biggest problem here is that the game needs to massively take off in the community, there are probably plenty of projects around with this model but only a handful that I can think of that work. I believe the game needs to be relatively well finished, so people have something to play whilst waiting for the more considerable updates."


Yeah, I think you need months of development done, with a playable relatively bug free game to start out. By which time, I guess you could go straight to sale and then release updates anyway. I suppose it depends how far down the feature rabbit hole you want to go.

Quote: "I'd start off with a free, cut-down version of the game, and when (if) it gets popular release a paid version and stop updating the cut-down version, sort of like what Notch did with Minecraft."


I kind of do that at the moment, but they're released in parallel. The only changes to the demo/Lite versions are bug fixes, while the full version gets feature updates. For example, I'm going to add a new campaign to Space Squadron soon, but the demo will still be 2 crappy levels.

Perhaps, in this case, Android games are too simple to work with this game model, because the platform doesn't lend itself to long sprawling sandbox games. When you've got the basic gameplay in place, you're mostly done, or at least I am, with the projects I go for.

KeithC
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 16:26
Here's a good example of a game following that very path (and one I support): Intersteller Marines

They also allow you to buy "Support Medals" which bring them additional income, as well as some "Forum Bling" for yourself. They are pretty far along, with a few playable demos. They're using Unity for the game dev, though they started in UDK.

-Keith

Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 17:04
Quote: "Totally agree there. Yes, it has to be something with evolving game mechanics, that has a sandbox feel. Each time you release a new feature, the game as a whole takes on a new gameplay edge."


That makes a lot of sense: this model wouldn't work very well for a more story-based game. I think episodic releases are better for story-based games: the developer releases the first "chapter" or so, and gets a small amount of revenue. The benefit of that model is that, while it would be nice for the developer to finish the episodic series, they're under no obligation to do so, unlike this model.

Fallout
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 17:30
I guess the Interstellar Marines game Keith mentioned is episodic and probably has that model. It seemed like it'd go that way, looking at the website. That might be worth considering for me then. If I decide my game can be story driven, I could release episodes of that story as the player makes his way through various apocalyptic landscapes. Hmmm .. interesting.

Insert Name Here
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 22:22 Edited at: 5th Aug 2011 22:23
Quote: "I think episodic releases are better for story-based games: the developer releases the first "chapter" or so, and gets a small amount of revenue."

What companies have used this system, incedentally? I mean apart from the Half Life episodes, and I don't really know if that counts because of the rediculous gap between each

Another point to remember is that everyone on this forum are game designers and makers, or are at least interested in that field, so naturally we're all likely to be interested in seeing how a game is built up over time. Whether other people would be as interested is debatable - it's worked for minecraft, but even that has a large game designer/modder following (And the fact that it's moddable is a large part of its draw), it's possible that your average pleb just isn't interested in watching the game develop over time.

This concept is just a scale up version of DLC, really - rather than a full game that has stuff added over time, an alpha version that builds up over time.

Edit: Is this the format you're going to use for the Bob game? Because I have to admit I've been itching to see that in action since you mentioned it

Blobby 101
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Posted: 5th Aug 2011 22:33
Quote: "What companies have used this system, incedentally?"
Telltale games All their games are released like this. Can't think of any others off the top of my head though.

Fallout
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 10:32
Quote: "Is this the format you're going to use for the Bob game? Because I have to admit I've been itching to see that in action since you mentioned it "


I really don't know, but if it is, you may need to get yourself a back scratcher, because that itch won't be sorted any time soon. I'm just starting this project, firstly with a lot of technical experimentation, since it's my first open gl droid game. So it's a way off yet ...

... damn I want to make a zombie survival game so bad though!

Teh Stone
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 00:51
I think that this is a good method for an mmos and rpg, the first game that comes to mind is runescape, in may they announced that in that given month they had 1 million paying members. This game was realeased in 2001 which means 1 million people are effectively paying for a product that has been in development for 10 years. If JaGeX were to announce that runescape development was complete and the only work they would do from now on is maintaince there sure wouldnt be a million paying customers next month

But then i would not like to be playing a new shooter game that i payed for, great graphics, great gameplay, just starting to get into the story line, finish one mission on a clifffhanger than BAM! screen saying that the rest of the mission will be released next month, i probably just wouldnt play it again and wouldnt visit that devs site looking for more unfinished games

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