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Geek Culture / Children and Videogames

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Wolf
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 01:04 Edited at: 6th Aug 2011 01:05
Hey folks!

I just had a chat with my father and we talked about how I used to play videogames on his computer as a kid and how different they are nowadays. Well, there is a lot of ranting going on out there about how videogames are influencing our children. Some have basis in reality and other's don't. Well, these debates are as old as 3D Videogames and I guess we all have discussed them to death.

But still, I remember how I saw those first primitive, poor 3D videogames as a child. In the eyes of a kid it is an entire world for its own. The Mechwarrior series for instance seemed totally real to me. I was somehow unable to see the horrible blocky graphics and the low resultion textures. To me as a kid, it looked fotorealistic. But I played a lot of other games and its hard to describe but I really saw them in a different way. They had a strong impact on my childhood fantasy and I must say that the more violent ones where in some way slightly disturbing (yet super cool...the first resident evil...yeah, awesome!! (I hope mommy doesn't catch me play))

Alright, enough nostalgia. Videogames came a long way since then and I guess everyone agrees that even the cheaper productions these days have MINDBLOWING visual effects compared to back then. Some military shooter's look almost real.
We really reached a level where adult games are supposed to be for adults only. But still...children are playing these games. And judging from my experience, I somehow doubt that these dont have impact on them.

GTA in my childhood was 2 dimensional pixelwarfare... GTA nowadays =/ Its an awesome game but I think the vast majority of gamers playing these are between 10 and 14.

I was labeling talk about how videogames make killermachines out of kids as completely unrealistic and I still do. But I think that adult games have a strong impact on kids today, much more than back then when I was a child playing games.

Its just a thought, but as soon as I'm daddy, I'm not so sure if I let my 10 year old boy play Call of Duty 27 or GTA 12. Its very unlikely to be honest.

What do you think? Is letting kids play even the M rated games still not of further importance or do you think aswell that games have reached a certain level of realism and some games should be kept away from kids?

Grammar may vary.



-Wolf

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
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heyufool1
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 01:15
I don't think it would hurt to let young kids play violent games like GTA. However, I don't think it's necessary. There are a ton of games that I played as a kid that I just can't stand anymore, or games that I liked and still do, but none of my friends like them (Mario party). I know if I was focused on GTA then I wouldn't have got to play some of the classic games such as Mario Party. I also think there is no point in trying to prevent kids (or anyone) from playing violent games/sexual games for the only reason that it's impossible. I'll go from my own experience: I wanted GTA: San Andreas, I was 12 at the time, and my parents would not get it for me so what did I do? I walked to Gamestop and paid a teenager in the store $5 to buy it for me. 15 minutes later I was playing GTA in the comfort of my home without my parents noticing.

"So hold your head up high and know. It's not the end of the road"
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Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 01:17
hard and dangerous discussion indeed, but here is my thought: NO kids wont become serial killers or violent by playing games, quite the opposite really: it's a good way to let go of your frustration.
furthermore I personally think all stores should implement some sort of system to prevent 10y olds to buy M games by themselves, and need parental allowence for it (GAME in my town has that system, and i love it)

I personally think that parents also need to engage themselves more in the topic: research the game first, check what it actually is, use youtube and look up what it consists of. not just judge by the box. My parents were gamers, and therefore until i reached the age of like.. 10? they only let me play kid games and games they have actually tried. after that they just checked in on me every now and then to see i wasnt playing doom 3 or the like /dunno when doom 3 were released\

and for the record, I am a man.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 01:49
I don't think it's fair to label photorealism as the cause, it's immersion that's the culprit, if anything.

Immersino can happen in the most unrealistic, ugly game out. So long as it draws the player in, takes up all their attention, it's immersive.

As far as if it'd affect my kids, in honesty I wouldn't allow my kids near violent media until they reached a fairly mature age. Call me a mollycoddler, but it really depends on what it is.

Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 02:13
People are very unrealistic about video games and influence, i started playing MK when i was around 6 and it never influenced me a bit, my first FPS was when i was around 11 (MOH Frontline) and still never influenced me one bit, When i first started playing video games, I could distinguish these games from real life and i was 4 then, I believe the only exception is very violent sandbox sorts of games like GTA or Saints row where most women are half naked and everything you do, people curse your ears off. This may be just me, I was taught about gun safety at a young age so it may be those gun safety lessons that kept me from reenacting what i saw on those violent video games.

>>>>>LOOK HERE<<<<<<<<<<<

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heyufool1
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 02:15
Quote: "my first FPS was when i was around 11 (MOH Frontline)"

Same game at around the same age for me! Great party game, a friend of mine was known for running around as the the old woman while using a shotgun, good times!

"So hold your head up high and know. It's not the end of the road"
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Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 02:19
Quote: "my first FPS was when i was around 11"


my first was CS 1.6 at around 10-12
after that it was GTA 3.. shoe i was disgusted by that corpse in the trunk at one point... so i stopped playing just because of that... I was actually a very very sensitive kid for that kind of stuff when i was little but I had the sense to stop play atleast.

I also played Quake 4, at the age of 12 (6 years ago) and...*spoiler*
disgusted me SO much, i had nightmares about it for a couple days... huuga

and for the record, I am a man.

Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 02:36
Ahh.. I loved Frontline, it's what got me started in FPSes, loved them ever since. Now, they've got me hooked on WWII Fps games, i've got 4 of them for ps2, 2 for PS3, 1 for PC, 1 for PS1, and 2 for PSP, sooo yeah i really like MOH alot lol.

>>>>>LOOK HERE<<<<<<<<<<<

just got your attention, didn't i?
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 02:44
I think video games are an amazing educational tool.

I played games like "math mountain" or "monster island" (still an educational game) all the time as a kid, until I argued with my parents enough to let me play violent games (my parents didn't mind shooting aliens, but they hated games where you shoot people).

At the same time, video games can become a MASSIVE time sucker.

If/when I have a kid, I'll DEFINITELY put restrictions on what they can play and how long they can play it. Not on the basis of E rated vs M rated, but on the basis of what it's about. So, I'd try to get my kid to play educational games, and probably simulation games [because simulations are awesome], and restrict usage of time wasting games, at least until the kid's 13 or so.

but I won't have to worry about that for another 10-20 years


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Kezzla
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 05:53
I feel that games are a great tool to stretch the mind. so games in general I think are ok.

however...(holy crap im sounding like the "grown ups" when i was a kid)
I believe that ultra violence should be restricted to older audiences.(just to allow kids to grow up a bit before they expose themselves to these themes)

This is not mindless study following on my part, but more due to my own progression as a young gamer.
for a while my whole basis for buying or playing a game was how good the gore was.
I'm not a particularly violent person and I definitly didn't bring the game behavior into the real world,
however the fact that the blood and violence was very really a big part of the fun of a computer game is a bit concerning in hindsight.

I got into gaming on the super nintendo and loved donkey kong and mario and the other games like them.

I got a computer and started playing doom and it was really cool, - however i was always more into the building 3d worlds side of doom than the violence.

Quake blew me away with its amazing graphics, and lets admit it, it was really cool the way the bodies blew apart when you shot them with the rocket launcher.

halflife with the blood spatter and body dismemberment had a real whoa factor. -I guess it was just that we'd never really seen it in a game before and the excessive
nature of it made me laugh.

soldier of fortune was just brutal with it's insane gore detail and models that you can fillet any way you want. It was a new gaming feature and It was interesting seeing just how far
you could take the dismemberment(it was always too far).

postal 1 and 2 - not so gorey as SOF, but the mindset behind the game makes appalling violence funny.
(btw I am a fan of the postal game and have spent many deranged hours playing it.)


I guess it was a key area of developement for a while there in the game industry, to have the best gore as a selling point.

constant exposure to that kind of thought and imagery, can lead to obsession with violence.

It doesn't neccisarily mean that kids will go out and be violent in the real world(most people are decent citizens), but in their mind the detachment between real world and violence and the focus
on blood and gore can lead to unhealthy mental constructs.

to see kids playing a game and yelling out...
"he's running away, blow his brains out!"
"whoa, right in the back, nice shot"
"now cut his head off!"
"kick it to me! kick it to me!"

It really cant be healthy.
but in saying that, I turned out ok. though these days gore and violence don't really interest me at all.
though martial arts fighting games with good combat I still find interesting. (I practice Karate myself)

I personally think that someones first exposure to killing should be through real world hunting, with a real hunter.

that way they see the real connection between guns and death, they see that killing isn't a game.
that you cant be cruel in taking a life.
get them to help clean and skin the carcass so they see all the way from living animal, dying animal,dead animal, carcass, meat, dinner.
It gives you a respectful perspective on killing.
something that is completely lacking in a computer game.

so to end my long winded speech, realistic graphics are ok, games are ok, gore and violence can make entertaining fps's, but I personally don't think it's ok for a childs mind.

what's wronge with playing monkey island?

kezzla

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 05:59
^
Exactly my thoughts.

My Mind is very odd, it can memorize hundreds of commands, memorize 2 dictionary's worth of words, and make detailed 3D models. Yet my mind has trouble with the most simple calculations.
Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 06:14
Quote: "so to end my long winded speech, realistic graphics are ok, games are ok, gore and violence can make entertaining fps's, but I personally don't think it's ok for a childs mind.

what's wronge with playing monkey island?

kezzla"


Also depending on the child offcourse^^ Hence the parents have to take that into the equation

and for the record, I am a man.

xplosys
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 06:41
Quote: "I don't think it's fair to label photorealism as the cause, it's immersion that's the culprit, if anything."


I agree. If playing video games has some kind of affect on kids and influences their behavior so much, why don't we see any Marios or Sonics running the streets in packs? My Grandson loves to play SpongeBob games. What's he gonna grow up to be?

Brian.

Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 06:57
Iam rather unsure why someone would run of and kill someone because of a video game?

seriously: there are no evidence of it, there are a few killers her and there who says: "I DID IT CUZ I PLAYED THIS GAME" but we cannot know if it is true, and rather obviously those people must have SOME sort of mental disorder

and for the record, I am a man.

Thraxas
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 07:18
Hey as long as the games are not about Euthanasia then I don't see any problems

Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 07:59
shoe you thraxas, posting weird words that I have to google... xD

and for the record, I am a man.

Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 08:33 Edited at: 6th Aug 2011 08:35
^if you haven't seen it:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=187005&b=2

Frankly I find it appalling that anyone would write a game about such a horrible concept - disguising deep, thought-out, mean-hearted political messages into a fun video game is disguisting.


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Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 08:38
Quote: "Frankly I find it appalling that anyone would write a game about such a horrible concept - disguising deep, thought-out, mean-hearted political messages into a fun video game is disguisting."


Well, people, me for example find them enjoyable... I dont know how to describe it: As long as the concept is MEANINGFULL then i can totally find why it would be enjoyable

as for my kid? Well, i have about 8 years on me to decide (since we're essentially talking about 10 year olds)

and for the record, I am a man.

Rampage
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 08:43
No matter if they are restricted from many video games or not they will find a way to play them.
I think we all know that from experience.

Obviously no 18+ games for my kids till they at least hit 12. (Thats when I started getting into the more intense games)
But no way am I going to restrict them from CoD 24.

If I did it would be because I wanted my children to have a positive gaming experience!

Regards,

Max
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 08:43
Quote: "Well, people, me for example find them enjoyable... I dont know how to describe it: As long as the concept is MEANINGFULL then i can totally find why it would be enjoyable

as for my kid? Well, i have about 8 years on me to decide (since we're essentially talking about 10 year olds)"

did you click the link?


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Quik
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Posted: 6th Aug 2011 10:36
Quote: "did you click the link? "

seen it already

and for the record, I am a man.

Wolf
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Posted: 7th Aug 2011 23:51
Quote: "
Frankly I find it appalling that anyone would write a game about such a horrible concept - disguising deep, thought-out, mean-hearted political messages into a fun video game is disguisting."


Quote: "Hey as long as the games are not about Euthanasia then I don't see any problems "


Yeah! Whoever made that game is a monster!

Quote: "as for my kid? Well, i have about 8 years on me to decide (since we're essentially talking about 10 year olds)"


Congratulations!

Quote: "why don't we see any Marios or Sonics running the streets in packs? My Grandson loves to play SpongeBob games. What's he gonna grow up to be?
"


I guess thats a difference from playing something like spongebob and some gangculture promoting game like Saints Row. But I might be wrong.

Quote: "there are a few killers her and there who says: "I DID IT CUZ I PLAYED THIS GAME""


There are?

Quote: "to see kids playing a game and yelling out...
"he's running away, blow his brains out!"
"whoa, right in the back, nice shot"
"now cut his head off!"
"kick it to me! kick it to me!"
"


Yeah! Games like these are certainly for adults



-Wolf

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
http://serygalacaffeine.deviantart.com/
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Quik
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 00:06
Quote: "There are? "


the guy who killed people in norway for example said: "I PLAYED WOW THEREFORE I DID IT"

now iam pretty sure he is trolling about that, but still

and for the record, I am a man.

sprite
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 02:16
I don't think that games themselves cause any problems with the normal mental development in most kids. However there are the very small percentage that are in needed of help and they are affected by games, movies and music.

Should games be changed because of a small number of people who really the schools, police, parents ect should have been helping these people months or years ago. No they make a product and only a product be in a game, music or a movie. There are already guide lines that the game, music and movies have to follow.

Its like the rock music was the big demon in its day. Now we have death metal and agro-tech that make rock seem like a Choir boys. Its because its new and the weak minded fear the new and its easy to blame the new.

I'll add something later on.
TheComet
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 10:07
I think it's the parents problem if their kids play violent video games, not the kids fault. You know you're a bad parent if your 6 year old kid plays GTA4

TheComet

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 16:00
When I was a kid I was subject to most of the things people claim 'have negative effects on the minds of children'. I loved playing the GTA games, I used to kill people and enjoying it! Carmageddon was an awesome game! I became immersed in violent video games because they were enjoyable, killing people was fun, plowing them with an automobile and shooting them too- Quake II was my first FPS. Also as a kid I loved watching 18-rated horror films, including Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal and films made after Stephen King novels (I thought 'Storm of the Century' was great, a psychic killing people, even getting a guy to shove an axe through his own face!), heck my parents bought me a couple of Stephen King novels as a kid, even though the library refused to let me check them out as I was 'too young' (even though books don't have legal ratings). To top it all, I was subject to metal from the age of 9, listening to Metallica and Marilyn Manson (I was a big lover of Marilyn Manson when growing up).

I should be the most screwed up person on the planet. I think it's a case of understanding the difference between 'fiction' and 'reality', I can see how video games, films, music and so on can have an effect, but it's when the kids themselves don't understand, either out of instability or that it isn't made clear to them that behaviour in a video game, film or even what a song is about isn't necessarily appropriate for the real world. So I agree with the ratings system, because really kids shouldn't play these games or watch those films, but if you know it's not going to do your kid any harm, then I don't think it's a big problem.

Personally I'd like to see the blame put in the right place so that it can be dealt with, like with the 'Manhunt Killer', the kid was in a gang and was subject to gang culture, yet his parents insisted it was the video game that was to blame and made him that way. It was quite a kick up in the UK with the 'video games = violence' argument, I think in a way it kind of detracts from other issues, like a scapegoat. It wasn't 'x' problem that made 'y' go crazy, it was actually a film/video game/band. Instead of people trying to get a game banned or to limit what content video games are allowed to have, I think the effort should be put into dealing with the source of the issue, if it's down to upbringing, family life, bullying, mental illness, gang culture and whatever.

Quik
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 16:27
Quote: "I think it's the parents problem if their kids play violent video games, not the kids fault. You know you're a bad parent if your 6 year old kid plays GTA4 "


this basicly

and for the record, I am a man.

swissolo
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 18:20
This debate rages on everywhere, but I consider it a no brainer. If there are really 2 choices.
-Ban video games for children underage
|OR|
-Let parents CHOOSE what games THEIR children can play.
The later will be much more versatile and everyone should be provided a choice. Don't tell parents how to take care of their children. Plus, no kid is alike, and their parents know them best.
...
But I do fail to see why COD is rated M. Maybe the crazy swearing, or that horid zombie mode?(okay that's why ) If kids couldn't play COD it would die SO FAST though... Money issues come in too don't they. Well I think it's fine the way it is.

swis
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Quik
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 18:38
Quote: "The later will be much more versatile and everyone should be provided a choice. Don't tell parents how to take care of their children. Plus, no kid is alike, and their parents know them best. "


you do realise it's the parents, mostly who wants to ban them? right?
atleast that's the way it was with the movie rampage 50 years ago.

and for the record, I am a man.

Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 19:38
It comes down to proper parenting. All kids are different, mature at different ages and are effected differently by violent media. Know your child, and know the media they are watching/playing (of course they might hide some from you!).
My dad used to let me watch 18 rated movies from a very young age, but he'd watch them first and would skip particularly gory parts he thought were too extreme for me to see. Although that type of censoring isn't realistically possible with games.

I hate it when people berate or even lobby against games or films they know nothing about, just because they've "heard" something about it. I've heard GTA described as a prostitute killing simulator .

We live in the age of information, it's not difficult to type the name of a game you hear your kids mention into google and find out what it really is about before jumping to conclusions. Then you can decide if it is appropriate.

Image All
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 20:13
Quote: "Its just a thought, but as soon as I'm daddy, I'm not so sure if I let my 10 year old boy play Call of Duty 27 or GTA 12."

Good, the rating system is for parents anyway. Ratings mean pretty much nothing to the actual gamer, it'll be your job and nobody else's to enforce them.

*reads the rest of the posts*

Quote: "it may be those gun safety lessons that kept me from reenacting what i saw on those violent video games."

this, but also likely it was a lack of guns in your hand. I'm sure as a 4yo you couldn't reach wherever your parents kept the guns. ...... right?

Quote: "restrict usage of time wasting games, at least until the kid's 13 or so."

should probably keep a tight watch on them until they're out of highschool; i was one of the unlucky ones who wasn't monitored enough and i haven't learned how to learn. had to drop two classes last semester because i had not developed the discipline to read the bloody books.


my thoughts on video games and children's behavior is that it really makes no difference what the content of the game is. as a kid, i had a serious temper problem. still do but i don't spew it out anymore. playing games like Mario and Starfox could get me to scream and smash the controller with my tiny fist. losing in any kind of multiplayer would get me to grow angry towards the other players. these days i am much better and backing myself off from those feelings and raging comically rather than furiously.

the biggest problem i see with video games and children isn't the effect it will have on them, but the addiction. countless hours and days will be wasted away sitting in front of a screen, and in some cases like mine that time will be spent ferociously raising blood pressure and increasing stress levels. to tell the truth, if it wasn't video games i was raging at it would be whatever else i did. i don't consider games an outlet or anything, it really makes no difference. i would be mentally the same, but physically healthier, if i hadn't had computers and video games.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 20:17 Edited at: 8th Aug 2011 20:37
The latter assumes everybody's a good parent, which isn't true, a lot of kids out there don't get the right attention from their parents and aren't raised well, some parents spoil their kids leaving them to become bad tempered and self-centered, other neglect their kids and would prefer to have them sat in front of the television rather than to give them proper attention.

And it is the parents (as said) that are often complaining, heck the Manhunt kid's lawyer didn't even blame the game, he put it down to being a victim of gang culture, "in desperation born of fear" he called it. But the parents felt it was a video game that warped his mind.

But the things I don't understand about these groups of parents is:
a) what kind of relationship do you have with your kids when their moral understanding derives from a video game?
b) what kind of interest are you taking in your kids' lives if you don't know what kind of things they're up to?
c) why are you letting your 7 year old kid play a game rated 18 or R or whatever (depending on your country) if you're THAT concerned about what effect it's having on their brain?

But people will often blame others before looking at themselves. It's the way the world works and if there's a scapegoat, people will exploit it. I understand kids can go away from their upbringing for whatever reason, but I sincerely doubt if they've become a drug addict, then Amy Winehouse is to blame for not going to Rehab in her song, your son's not a murderer because he killed a guy in Manhunt and your daughter (lets not be sexist now) did not torture that guy because she watched Saw.

swissolo
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 23:05
Quote: "you do realise it's the parents, mostly who wants to ban them? right?"

Yup. They fail to realise they have no power over OTHERS children. It's not like anywhere anyone suggested parents CAN'T not buy their kids over age games. I see many flaws yes, children can play these games other places and yes there is "bad parenting" but choice is a middle ground. And honestly if some parents do such a poor job to be dubbed "bad" I think there's probably bigger issues to worry about. Parents can't protect their kids from everything too, no matter what. A law in place wouldn't change that, but my argument is shifted a little off topic. I'm saying, "The government shouldn't be involved" not "let your kids do what they want"

swis
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Melancholic
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 23:40
Here's my opinion of the subject:

Videos games certainly have an effect on children, but so do all typed of media they are exposed to. To demonize the games industry for producing violent games is pointless. Each child will interpret violent media in different ways. Some children will not be affected by it, whilst others may. Ultimately this means that it is the parents roll to decide weather their kids will have a negative effect to the game in question. As a child, my parents did not allow me to play any realistic violent video games(i say this because Mario is quite violent when you think of it) At the time i though this to be rather annoying and unfair, but in hindsight I'm glad they did. I was scared very easily as a kid. This is the sort of parenting I'm talking about, considering the child, then making the decision.


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Plystire
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Posted: 9th Aug 2011 01:43
Is this a question of mental health or physical health for children?

Mental Health:
I don't think there is much of a problem for kids in this department, unless they suffer from mental issues already. Example, I had a friend that had serious mental issues, and easily projected the game world onto reality. This will, of course, cause problems when it comes to violent games, but even worse problems when it came to realistic violent games (GTA anyone?). His parents knew this and did their best to keep those sort of games away from him. But there was always the chance that he'd play something bad at a friend's house, which happened a few times and it wasn't ever pretty.
Me, for another example, I never had a problem with games effecting me mentally as a kid because, honestly... how many kids can fully follow complex storylines talking about political agendas, mission briefings, etc.? In the child's eyes, the game is a game, simple as that. You use the buttons to do something, and are satisfied for accomplishing it. Before the time that the child can comprehend what's actually going on in the game (You're moving through a castle, ultimately trying to find dracula and defeat him... blah blah blah) they see it as a predefined series of trials that they must overcome, with little point to them other than reaching the end of the game. Once they reach the end, they can then go brag to their friends about it.

That's all well and good, except when it comes to serious cases. Children that stay inside and do nothing BUT play videogames, have no friends. It's as simple as that. My best friend's little brother and sister have no friends... because their parents shelter them too much. In this case, it's not so much the child playing games as it is the parents not allowing their children to go out and play with real people. In another case, my other friend's child-in-law (married with children, oh fun) stays inside and plays games because they can and because the parents don't fully enforce going outside to play. It's so sad to see these kids without any real friends, I almost want to cry. It's even more sad when I talk to their parents about getting them outside to play, only to make little to no ground on the subject, usually scoffed away as not knowing what I'm talking about.


Physical health:
This is where I personally suffer. However, it's not the games that are at fault here, just the virtual world in general (Curse you, Internet!).
Let's face it. Lounging around all day is not good for your health. Being older and more responsible, this has less of an effect, but on a child it can have dire consequences. The children I mentioned above suffer from various physical issues directly relating to lounging around alllllll the tiiiiiime. Going to school can help offset this as well as offset social issues, but one of these kids is homeschooled, and thus gets even less exercise. What's worse? He's schooled online! An 8 year old kid is taking school online... what has the world come to?!? This means he's playing games on the couch, or sitting in front of the computer. No socializing with real kids, not even socializing much with his own family! Gah, makes me so mad.
Actually, I think the fact that he's schooled online makes me more upset than him playing games ever could... though both are a problem, and both need to be fixed.


Too much rambling... and talking about it has just upset me further. I need to go lie down now.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.

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