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FPS Creator X10 / x10 texture resolution question

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srealist
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 16:27 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2011 17:47
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Hi all,

I remember reading somewhere that no matter what (regardless of settings in setup.ini, etc.), all textures are sized down to a maximum resolution of 1024x1024. Does anyone know if this is true?

Something else...I tend to use DXT5-Interpolated Alpha for my dds files. Now, this is a compressed format. There are less compressed formats that can be used.

Does x10 do its own texture compression? In other words, is there a point in exporting at higher resolutions with lower compression rates or is there a maximum threshold that can not be passed?

Thanks!

Edit: Allow me to add another related question. Are MIP maps used by FPSC? If so are they being used for level of detail? 'Cause if they are being used, we should all be exporting our textures with MIP maps, I assume.
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Le Shorte
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 18:17
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I know some people over at the x9 forums released 2048x2048 textures, so I'd see no reason why x10 would be limited to 1024x1024.

And yes, DXT5-Interpolated Alpha is the format I use as well

And I'm not sure about MIP maps.

Cheesehead for life.
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srealist
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 18:58 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2011 18:59
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Thanks, Le Shorte. I've used 32 bit dds textures before in FPSC with no problem. Actually, I use them with HUDs as the text comes out sharper. The cost is larger file size.

As far as 2048 textures go, I know we can load them but I'm wonder if FPSC downsizes them anyway.

The MIP map thing is really interesting and I am very curious to know if it is used by FPSC. We've all noticed LODs popping in and out before. I wonder if exporting textures with Mip maps would make the LOD transitions smoother.
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Gencheff
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 20:06
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I honestly doubt it downsizes them.Granted I've tried it in X9 instead of X10,2048^2 work.There's a clear difference between 1024 and 2048 on large objects like buildings.It doesn't make much sense to scale them down.

Samotnijat vylk nasred gorata.
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srealist
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 22:22
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Well just 'cause it doesn't make sense doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen. The texture settings in both the build menu and the preferences reduce texture quality. Not to mention the setup.ini which I've never seen anyone in x10 discuss setting higher than 1024. Also, I know that with decals that no matter how big you make 'em they are reduced to 1024...so anyway, it's possible that this occurs with entity textures.

But, I dunno.
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Gencheff
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 22:44 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2011 22:47
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Let me put it like this,I honestly don't think Lee will put such a limitation,I'm sure he can see why that wouldn't exactly be a smart idea.

Decals may be,I don't know about them.
That thing you set in setup.ini,isn't it for lightmaps instead of entity textures (lightmaptexsize=1024 - this value presumably)...?

I'm not familiar with X10 , is it THAT different?

Samotnijat vylk nasred gorata.
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srealist
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 22:48
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Just asking questions here....no worries. Clearly, I am asking because I don't know. I think you are correct about the lightmap setting.
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srealist
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Posted: 24th Aug 2011 00:18
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BTW, here is a 1024x1024 segment using the 32-bit DDS export with mipmaps. Photo is cropped obvious but nothing else has been done to it. The detail on the stones is really nice. When you crouch and look at it, there is very little to no pixelation..

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The Next
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Posted: 24th Aug 2011 12:37
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Thats a very nice texture and good quality. X10 doesn't have a texture size limit (at least not 1024x1024) I'm sure as I used to make my textures 2048x2048 in size and I alwasy noticed a difference in quality, especially on segements and large entities.

Mystic Mod - Putting the fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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Squalker
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Posted: 25th Aug 2011 21:04 Edited at: 25th Aug 2011 21:05
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Myself I start with 2048 for texture design in Photoshop.. then make my DDS as follows

1024 Diffused
2048 Normal
512 - 1024 Spec

They work well together
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srealist
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Posted: 25th Aug 2011 21:22
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Ah, never thought about doing that with the normal map. Good info. And thanks, The Next, for the comment on the texture.

I have been using FilterForge lately and it is my new, and secret best friend. Well...not that secret 'cause I keep telling everyone here how awesome it is. No secrets with the Wrecking Crew. ....Except for the secret secret features.
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Gencheff
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Posted: 25th Aug 2011 22:03
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Generally artists create higher-res normal maps and lower-res diffuse/specular maps,especially on characters. I also use Filterforge a lot,it's a great tool.

Samotnijat vylk nasred gorata.
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srealist
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 00:14
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Also, very good to know. I'm still a noob when it comes to 3D. However, while that may be a standard convention, I can tell you that the artists in my lab use normal maps that are 1/2 the size of the color map - but this may be based around the shaders we've built in OGRE3D.
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Squalker
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 04:49
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Quote: "Ah, never thought about doing that with the normal map. Good info"


Ya you get a very detailed looking texture with a 2048 normal.. much finer detail.

I usually just make the diffuse at 2048 then make my normal from that and keep it 2048... I then reduce my diffused to 1024 and make spec from it.. I will reduce my spec to 512 as long as I have no small lit areas in it... if the are detailed lit areas I will keep it at 1024.. (tbh for 95% of my stuff I usually use a pure black 512 Spec on most objects.. Shine is just not natural on things other then metal)
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srealist
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 20:14
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Having played around with the mip maps a bit, I don't recommend using them. They actually seem to make the LODs more noticeable on dynamic entities. In fact, they are unusable 'cause you see them pop every couple feet you move. Hmmm.
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michael x
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 22:17
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fpsc maximum resolution is 512x512. but you can make it higher buy going into the setupini.but its pointless because 512x512 is all you need.graphic are not everything.you dont want to kill your performance by over doing it.everything is digital so pixelation comes part of the deal.

more than what meets the eye

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srealist
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Posted: 27th Aug 2011 00:18
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Okay, I didn't want to misquote you but I thought I remembered a post from you on this topic.

There is definitely a noticeable difference when using less compressed dds files. When I have HUDs with text and image in them, it makes a big difference when I use the 32 bit dds files.
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michael x
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Posted: 27th Aug 2011 04:50
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yes it may look better in 32bitdds.but if you want fpsc to use a 1024x1024 then you change it in setup.but loading time may take longer.yes fpsc can lower a 1024 to 512. also if you save the texture using MIP.

MIP Mapping - MIP Mapping is an approach to texture mapping in which an original high-resolution texture map is scaled and filtered into multiple resolutions before it is applied to a surface. (MIP stands for the Latin multim im parvo, meaning "many things in a small space.") When a MIP Mapped texture is used in 3D rendering or real-time 3D displays, the texture can appear in full detail if it is seen in a close-up, or can be rendered quickly and smoothly from a lower MIP level when the object appears smaller or further away. MIP mapping saves processor time and improves anti-aliasing by allowing the computer to start with pre-filtered, pre-scaled textures at the most appropriate resolution for each frame. Usually, powers of 2 are used for the MIP Map levels, such that if the highest resolution were 1024x1024, the next levels would be 512x512, 256x256, 128x128, sometimes all the way down to 8x8 or 1x1 images.

more than what meets the eye

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 22:51
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I always create textures in PowerPoint (I know, strange, but the Scifi elements you can make...PHWOAR) and copy them into Paint.NET as 512x512. I know it's not a great resolution but then it's more quality than resolution (I refrained from using size there in case of an innuendo joke ) and the textures I've made look pretty decent.

Normals maps usually gives the texture more of a bigger looking resolution, dependant on what is consistent on the normal map (in UDK I always implement Detail maps into the normal, and if I could get X10 working and the shaders rendering I could try it in X10). But it basically depends on what the texture is for.

I've never known FPSC to shrink textures either, the texture options are High(no reduction), Medium(2x reduction) and Low(4x reduction) so it may be one of the settings that is toning down the resolutions .

-SSG

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