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Geek Culture / Engine Firing Order Strangeness!

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 06:03 Edited at: 29th Aug 2011 06:04
Ok, im not sure how many people on these forums have a great knowledge on how an engine works, but if you do, you might be able to answer this. I know pretty much everything about engines, all the strokes, how the valves open and close, spark plugs, fuel injection, etc. But in our new car, a 2011 Land Rover LR4 (which by the way is an awesome car) i was looking at the manual, and in the engine specs it said the V8 had a firing order of 1,5,6,3,4,2,7,8. Below is the digram showing the cylinder number in the circle, the order by the circle, and the line showing the order as well:



I know firing orders are optimized to achieve minimum vibration and a very smooth power output, but how in the world does this firing order help to do that??

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.

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That Guy John
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 06:36
I am willing to bet it has something to do with fuel economy.
Many V8 motors now have a system to shut down 2 to 4 cylinders once you reach a cruising speed. Then they are reactivated once you try to accelerate again.

For example, look at your fireing order.

1 5 6 3 4 2 7 8
Now remove 5 6 7 8
Leaveing you with cylinders 1 2 3 4
With a fireing order of 1 3 4 2 .
That leaves you with a standard 4 cylinder, get the picture?

I am a bit of a motor head, tore down and re-built my first motor when I was about 14. It gets complicated trying to keep up with the new stuff.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 06:52 Edited at: 29th Aug 2011 07:53
That makes some sense. I will have to look at the manual to see if it does that! But that 1,3,4,2 is still kinda random!

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.
That Guy John
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 17:25
My first vehicle was a 1987 Chevy S-10 pickup with a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder. 1 3 4 2 was the firing order. Matter of fact, that was the first motor I ever tore down and rebuilt. Ahhh memoriesss.. I beat the tar out of that little truck. It was ugly but still running strong when I sold it in 2000.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 01:37
Ah, once a few years ago before the age of me liking computer and electronics, i was big in to engines. However, as much as i wanted to back then, i never ended up tearing any engines down!

Hmm, speaking of that, im wanting to build a go kart sometime soon. I dont want to spend too much money on an engine, and i know Harbor Freight has a 212cc engine for only 120. The bad thing i have heard is that the cam gear is made of plastic. Do you think that makes it a bad engine for a go kart?

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.
Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 04:15
Considering the last two to fire are 7 and 8, what John said makes sense. My jag's diagram would look similar but with 6 and 8 firing last. The banks are the same order as yours.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 04:56
Hmm, so if you cut off cylinder 1 through 4, the firing order would be 5,6,7,8 which makes sense...

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.
Phaelax
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 08:19
I don't think they'd cut off an entire bank like that, because then the engine would only be firing on one side and I'm sure that would cause some vibrations.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 01:32
That makes a lot of sense, and as far as i know the engine doesnt shut off any cylinders it doesnt need. So back to the question, why the random firing order!?!?

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.
That Guy John
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 04:01 Edited at: 1st Sep 2011 04:03
Quote: "Hmm, so if you cut off cylinder 1 through 4, the firing order would be 5,6,7,8 which makes sense"


No, your engine depends on the staggering of the firing order for torque and smooth operation. Staggering also allows your motor to slightly mis-fire (happens to every motor every day, even if just ever so slightly), re-tard and advance timeing during operation without it being too noticeable.

And to your question about the plastic cam gear... That is not uncommon. This is done to ensure that gear breaks before something else more important breaks. Even in full size motors some gears / sprockets are normally made of a softer metal, sometimes brass like compounds, for this same reason. I know many motors do this for the gear on the bottom of the distributor shaft. Being as though it is much easier to pull out and replace the distributor than it is to pull the motor apart and replace internals.

Unless you plan on really beating on that go-kart, having that softer gear will play in your favor.

Quote: "I don't think they'd cut off an entire bank like that, because then the engine would only be firing on one side and I'm sure that would cause some vibrations."

And why would you think that? Have you ever heard of a Slant Six?

Quote: "as far as i know the engine doesnt shut off any cylinders it doesnt need"

I would almost put money on " it does". Call a dealership and find out, I am curious.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 01:59 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 02:00
Ah ok! What is the technology called where it shuts off the un needed cylinders? That is if it has a name!

Never, mind, i guess it's called active fuel management! Ill research it some.

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.
thenerd
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 14:39
Are you trying to build a gas-powered game console now?

SH4773R
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 18:59
Quote: "Are you trying to build a gas-powered game console now? "


It would have realistic racing game sounds

swissolo
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 23:00
Quote: "Are you trying to build a gas-powered game console now?"

I think he's writing a game engine for it already... I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way...

swis
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 00:21 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 00:23
Oh come on people!! Haha just becuase i have a curiosity doesnt mean im trying to somehow relate it to my console You all think my console is a bunch of bogus! Silly people.

Lol @swissolo i cant tell if you are defending me or not!

Maybe there could be a USB plugin for the console that would attach to and control an engine? However, that would be for YOU to build if you wanted one.

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.
swissolo
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 00:29
Quote: "Lol @swissolo i cant tell if you are defending me or not!"

I'm not sure either! It's sort of you, them, and then me over in the corner

Oh and...USB powered go cart Drive with the arrow keys.

swis
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 04:49
Exactly!

Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It's called rain.

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