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AppGameKit Classic Chat / Meego and HP WebOS were given up, how did TGC face these news?

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halley
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 10:55
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Intel gave up Meego, HP gave up WebOS. Will TGC give up the support to the two kinds of os system?

In China, android is very common. I expect to it very much.

give my best
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bjadams
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 12:06
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It's all wasted time trying to support B grade OSes.
Top mobile platforms are iOs, Android and Winphone. ADK only supports 1 for now. Hope that before year end we will have Android too.
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halley
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 12:32
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to Bjadams:
I agree with you.

Halley

give my best
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MikeHart
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 18:10
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As long as AppGameKit supports OSX and Intel AppUp, I am fine. Meego is no loss for me.
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Impetus73
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 18:48
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AppGameKit seem to be supporting the OS'es that is most easy to include first, then the harder ones later. I would love Bada support, since Samsung now will focus on that OS on alot of new mobiles, and the app store there is very limited, so it's a fresh market that screams for new apps, to sell your apps in. Applestore has 100 of 1000 of apps, so it's hard to get noticed there.

----------------
AGK user - novice
Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's, just started programming again with AGK.
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makifc
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 20:07
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I agree with Impetus73
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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 27th Sep 2011 20:42
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I would love android support but also understand that its an pain to get things working on android.
To many versions of the same os version and so many versions of the os it self.

I noticed this when making a few android apps with java.

Most of the times did you do your app for android 1.5 and the try to add extras for each os version.

And even if you get your app to work on your phones android os 2.1 so wouldt it work for users that have lg phones with 2.1,because lg added some things on there android version.

Ios have an huge advantage in that its always the same on all phones.
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DVader
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 00:03
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HTML 5 would be nice too.

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halley
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 04:59
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Can HTML 5 support OpenGL or DirectX? and is it can be used to make games?

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Doz
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 06:51
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Just because an OS isn't supported by the manufacturer doesn't mean that there are no people who own such a device. I would almost bet that these people might even be more willing to purchase apps for their platform given the lack of support from the major developers going forward.
Granted I wouldn't spend a large amount of time adding support for them to AppGameKit, but if they are already there, or close to it, no sense not having it.

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bjadams
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 10:11
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WEBgl works great with HTML5, I think that's the path that TGC will choose
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G T R
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 12:50
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a support for symbian would be nice. also blackberry phones, yup iOS and Android are the biggest deal, but still Nokia and blackberry phones has a lot of users, and they're craving for good apps and games.

Also in nokia's case they do have a larger reach than iOS and Android by integrating with phone service providers so people can pay using their phone bill, this is the case in Dubai and middle east in general and Nokia is heavily marketing and supporting mobile developers right here because of the insane demand in the middle east, while buying apps from android market is almost impossible right here,

Since Symbian uses C++ I think it wouldn't be that hard to be supported by AGK.

I'm back
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BatVink
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Posted: 28th Sep 2011 13:20 Edited at: 28th Sep 2011 13:22
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Where did you read that MeeGo is no more? It sounds like the sensationalist journalism that converts minor stories into something completely different. Here is the official announcement from Intel which I received this morning which explains that MeeGo is the basis for Tizen:

"Today, the Linux Foundation and LiMo* announced Tizen™, an open-source, standards-based software platform for multiple device categories, including smartphones, tablets, smart TVs, netbooks and in-vehicle infotainment systems.

Tizen builds upon MeeGo* and LiMo and will deliver an application framework built upon HTML5/WAC 2.0 standards to help developers reuse and extend their code across multiple OS's, app stores, and devices. "

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DMXtra
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Posted: 29th Sep 2011 11:23
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Meego is to be folded into Tizen...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/meego-to-be-folded-into-linux-based-tizen-os-slated-to-arrive-i/

In other words, projects who didn't do well in the market are being folded together so that they can try to do something in the market.

In other words, fail.

App Game Kit (A.G.K.) - Want to be creative on many platforms at once? This is the tool you need.
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halley
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Posted: 29th Sep 2011 11:56
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Thank you. I think Tizen will be better.

give my best
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 29th Sep 2011 13:26
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Lee is currently at the event "Elements 2011", so he'll be getting all the info on what's happening.

Rick

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halley
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Posted: 29th Sep 2011 14:42
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I see.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 9th Oct 2011 03:49
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I am back from Seattle, and the news is that MeeGo will continue to be supported, with a branch from the community working on Tizen. We have already completed MeeGo support for netbooks and tablets so that is available for those interested in distributing to the impending MeeGo based OS devices in 2012. Tizen is a different creature, based on a lowish level HTML5 operating system and would require new skills from MeeGo to exploit. TGC is interested very much in Tizen, but will be placing it's HTML5 plans ahead of a proprietary HTML5 solution. No doubt the skills and code we develop in HTML5 will be mostly transferable to Tizen next year.

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 28th Jan 2012 19:54
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I've made made more money selling my app for the HP Touchpad than I have for the iPad these past couple of months.

Intel i7-2600k - Asus P67 Sabertooth - 16GB RAM - 2x GTX 460 OC SLI - Lexar 128GB SSD Drive - 2TB ATA/600, Windows 7 x64. iPad, iPad2, iPhone 3GS & 4, HTC Inspire, Mac-Mini. Apps published: 3
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Mobiius
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Posted: 28th Jan 2012 21:29
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I have an HP Touchpad and would love to develop for it. (Especially as I work for HP )

My signature is NOT a moderator plaything! Stop changing it!
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Greenster
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 13:12 Edited at: 29th Jan 2012 13:22
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Indeed, anything outside of xcode->IOS, J2ME->Android, XDA or Silverlight->WP7, J2ME+MIDP 2.0+ is pretty much a waste of time..

One of the major turnoffs of ADK is instead of just doing J2ME with MIDP 2.0+ support, outside the demanded platforms, they went with SDKs that nobody will likely ever use.. This with the licensing are really bad marketing moves.. Nobody but bedroom programmers working on personal projects can afford to use the tool..


I could be wrong, but good luck convincing any employer or project leader otherwise..
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BatVink
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Posted: 29th Jan 2012 19:55
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I don't understand the licensing issue. The current average for commercial software is $2300 - $4600 per seat, usually tied in to a mandatory per-seat maintenance contract of roughly 20% of the license cost.

AGK 1.x is serving the major markets, I think that is meeting expectations and waiting for anything else would be delaying a product for which the future cross-platform upgrades involve no coding changes.

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baxslash
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 13:01
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Greenster. I am no expert on these other languages but one of TGC's greatest successes has always been to make it possible for 'bedroom programmers' like me to get games published. AppGameKit is a pretty natural, simple language to use to create sell-able games for a number of platforms as well as to progress into a further knowledge of other languages such as Xcode and C++ in the process (for those that are interested enough).

Perhaps it doesn't suit your own needs or wishes but it is a viable platform for professional development. Like most software it has it's niche. It's a toolkit which is expanding (possibly into the languages you would like to see it using who knows). A browser platform is currently being developed which will open up a number of new avenues for example.

In my opinion it is a very cheap and easy to use toolkit that I am personally being paid to use to develop games. Perhaps if people stopped being biased by their own opinions they would see it for its potential rather than its limitations.

I'm not sure I understand the 'licensing' problem either? It is cheap for 'bedroom programmers' and asks less than 1% of 100K if it's used by a successful company making over that as a one off fee... I'd live with that personally.

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Greenster
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 13:23
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@baxslash: Your average is way off, the projects I work on average 3/10 your base average.. unless you're talking about commercial in house development where you factor in salary expenses..

@BatVink: Unfortunatly your perception of professional ventures is far from reality. I've yet to find a company who would approve AppGameKit once I told them the licenseing cost they'd have to cover on top of already exists licensing costs. Companies have something called a budget, that makes project leaders extremey cynical. Having to pay a thousand dollars per seat once they hit a 100k profit still matters somehow.. maybe because they have to pay salaries and expenses in addition..

AGK is a good indy platform though, even though going with these small market SDKs instead of J2ME core with MIDP 2.0+ which covers all, is a pretty bad move. Now part of their product is obsolete..
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baxslash
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Posted: 30th Jan 2012 13:32 Edited at: 30th Jan 2012 13:35
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Quote: "Your average is way off, the projects I work on average 3/10 your base average.."

Not sure what you mean? I was saying that the $999 fee is less than 1% of the 100K you have to be making before you have to pay it:
http://www.appgamekit.com/order.php
Quote: "Corporations

Companies with turnover greater than $100,000 to pay $999 per seat.

Indies that grow to this level can upgrade for $887."


EDIT: BTW, I agree that AppGameKit is a good indie platform, I thought you were saying otherwise when you said it was a "waste of time"

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Greenster
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Posted: 1st Feb 2012 09:48 Edited at: 1st Feb 2012 09:56
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@baxslash: how did you get 'agk is a waste of time' from "Indeed, anything outside of xcode->IOS, J2ME->Android, XDA or Silverlight->WP7, J2ME+MIDP 2.0+ is pretty much a waste of time.."?

Small platforms like they've implemented are a waste of time when you consider J2ME on MIDP 2.0+ devices(pretty much everything now days) beats their functionality, beats their documentation, and allows same-source-portability which reduces long patch cycles and development times like AppGameKit is experiencing now..

Actually with the exception of IOS, J2ME out-functions and visually matches or surpasses these SDKs AppGameKit uses, and makes a single build work on literally millions of more devices. Their is no significant performance decrease either as the SDKs are all J2ME based already, just locked to vendor-specific libraries..

It's just a better choice, and people don't have to buy only expensive devices to use AGK; which also makes it a drastically better marketing decision. I'm actually scratching my head as to why they didn't just use J2ME, apposed to J2ME based SDKs which costs them significant time, money, and users. Apparently people at the vendors of these SDKs agree with me and are pulling out.. there is no market for a limited device mobile SDK that runs on top of a wide-market platform; especially when they only add macros to actual J2ME calls and add no additional functionality..
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baxslash
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Posted: 1st Feb 2012 10:05 Edited at: 1st Feb 2012 10:25
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Quote: "how did you get 'agk is a waste of time' from "Indeed, anything outside of xcode->IOS, J2ME->Android, XDA or Silverlight->WP7, J2ME+MIDP 2.0+ is pretty much a waste of time.."?"

I can see I misunderstood your meaning. Sorry. I thought you were saying that AppGameKit was a waste of time because it was not available in the languages you would like to see it available in.

Quote: "there is no market for a limited device mobile SDK that runs on top of a wide-market platform.."

I disagree, but I do agree that AppGameKit would be better if it supported these other languages (J2ME in particular).

I'm sure we'll see these supported some time in the future, Lee has already announced a browser based platform is being developed at the moment that will make a huge difference to the its marketability, we'll have to wait and see which language it uses.

EDIT: OK just read the newsletter, it's Java...

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Greenster
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Posted: 1st Feb 2012 12:05 Edited at: 1st Feb 2012 12:10
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Everything except IOS, which is C++ MACH-O using xcode headers, IS J2ME. Android SDK uses a tool to convert J2ME *.class binaries for their custom VM, using a single command-line tool, which then goes to a modified JAR format.

Actually none of the platforms supported by AppGameKit, except Android SDK and Xcode->IOS, add anything on to J2ME. They serve no purpose other than locking products to small-market platforms. Core J2ME builds run on them and at least a couple million additional devices. This is why I say it's a bad move to only support a market of ~25 devices by using these other platforms over J2ME only, and it's evident the vendors who made those wrappers agree..

I guess it's not really an issue till you get a demand for other devices, in which case you pay someone like me to rewrite them in J2ME ^^
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baxslash
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Posted: 1st Feb 2012 12:18
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Quote: "Everything except IOS, which is C++ MACH-O using xcode headers, IS J2ME."

I'm obviously not as well informed as you and am struggling to understand fully, not being awkward here. J2ME is Java right?

I would have thought that by adding the Java support they are adding at the moment they are doing what you are asking for?

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Greenster
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Posted: 1st Feb 2012 14:11 Edited at: 1st Feb 2012 15:47
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Quote: "I'm obviously not as well informed as you and am struggling to understand fully, not being awkward here. J2ME is Java right?

I would have thought that by adding the Java support they are adding at the moment they are doing what you are asking for?"


That would be cool if .NET->WP7 or HTML5(what they're actually adding) was J2ME or had close to the platform support it does..

EDIT: also since we're flexing our insight muscles, they wont be adding any more networking functions either. 'maybe web 2.0 domain specific functions'
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