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Geek Culture / The dying world of quality games.

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Tiarn
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 06:43
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I've been saddened by many of this years releases. Halo CE, MW3, etc. None of these games have had very much playability. I couldn't get into them for a very long time at all. Skyrim is definitely my favorite most recent game. In my opinion Skyrim has been one of the only very good games released since 2009. I'm sure there are a few here and there, but before 2010 think of all the amazing titles we had: Fable II, Halo 3, Modern warfare 2: One of my favorite multiplayer games of all time. I just thought I'd get your guys' opinion and to see if I'm the only one who thinks that the game design world is kind of taking a beating lately. Even World of Warcraft, a game I've played religiously is losing it's edge.
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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 07:00 Edited at: 30th Nov 2011 07:00
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Since 09? Minecraft, Mount and Blade Warband, L4D2, Dragon Age Origins, LA Noire, and Mass Effect 2 have all been released in this time period, to name a few. Countless awesome indie games have been released (and dwarf fortress is still going strong).

I think that there have been a lot of good games suffering from the "sequel" effect (where the sequel sucks arse), but for the most part the industry is just getting more and more awesome.

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nonZero
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 07:35
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I think the gaming industry died for me the day I played Final Fantasy 10. I had played 7, fallen in love and downloaded 1 - 6 (none of the famicom ones were released in my country. The SNES console never reached our shores either so FF 4,5,6 never did). Then I bought 8 and 9 for my ps1. Then the second game I got on my ps2 was FF10...and it was a talkie. And the lvl-up system was tedious and produced generic-abilitied characters. Story and gfx were decent, I admit and the sound track was okay. Meh. Last really good PC game I played was prolly Knights Of The Old Republic.

But we all have our own tastes so I guess its just oponion. Some people like flashy graphics, others good mechanis, others good story, others fun gameplay and some replayability (which Diablo had the most of out of anything on pc I had played at the time). To me, those golden days of 2D will always be the best though. Commander keen, the real duke nukem, a myriad of text-adventures to frustrate you, rockman(mega man in the us), raiden trad (the arcade version), mortal kombat, rocket knight... Could go on.

But yeah, its all perspective really. Some ppl would laugh at me for what I said. There are many who think that games are getting better. I'll admit, I've yet to try Skyrim and it's on my to do list since everyone's talking about it.

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 08:05
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have faith, At least Elder scrolls will never dissapoint you.

But really i think, games are getting worse because all of the good ideas have been exhausted already


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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BlueKlayman
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 08:29 Edited at: 30th Nov 2011 08:29
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League of Legends is definitely worth playing. If you get bored... add me. JDmino

Seriously, try it.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 11:56
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Quote: "But really i think, games are getting worse because all of the good ideas have been exhausted already"


Nah, what you're experiencing is the hyper-commercialization of games. Games tailored to bring in millions, and are so generic that very few will absolutely hate it.

Then you have games like minecraft. People are polarized, they either love it or hate it. Indie games are where it's at for new and fresh ideas.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 11:58
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Quote: "Nah, what you're experiencing is the hyper-commercialization of games. Games tailored to bring in millions, and are so generic that very few will absolutely hate it."


I think this is pretty much it. As long as the masses keep buying the cash cows we're going to continue seeing all these dumbed down, run-of-the-mill games.



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Van B
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 12:18
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I the past few months has been amazing for games. Dead Island, BF3, and especially Skyrim have not dissapointed me one bit.

However, I played Uncharted3 yesterday for the first time, and ohh my days what a pile of regurgitated crap that is. Same old climb shoot climb shoot gameplay. With intermittent bouts of button bashing, and that ever so skillful triangle button pary. If I retard myself with a brick the puzzles might pose a better challenge, but I just don't like it. The worst thing, is that the game is so damn predictable, ohh travel to timbucktoo after finding a clue that nobody else knows about, then when I surface with my new clue, or bit of old tat - the bad guys will be waiting. It wouldn't be so bad but I played for maybe 2 hours, and that same thing happend about 4 times. It's like 30 minutes of National Treasure stuck in a loop is enough of a plot for Uncharted. Really tedious, obvious and not nearly the game it could have been. That's the problem with Naughty Dog, they don't give their fans enough credit, as if people will revolt if Uncharted3 is not exactly the same as Uncharted2.
They could have added some thoughtful puzzles instead of the same old rotate this or slide this stuff we got sick of 15 years ago. Do the slidey puzzle to get into the rotatey puzzle to get into the shooting section to get into the running section to herp into the slidey puzzle to derp into the herp and herpderp herp a derp derp herp derp... sorry, rant over before my brain starts to leak out

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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Kezzla
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 12:21 Edited at: 30th Nov 2011 12:23
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I think its just the game development is becoming for viable for the masses, and with the masses you will always get the dregs.

far be it for me to bag them out, i have not released my own game yet (I am definitely working on it)

how many of our early programs turn out that great?

with time they grow and improve.

there are masters out there, you do have to wait a long time for them. Bethesta being the perfect example, they are years between games and even longer between continuation of games, but the quality is worth the wait.

as the new game teams grow up and become more seasoned I can see a massive improvement in general game quality.

we are on the crest of a wave, where graphical quality is through the roof, ram and hard drive space are at an all time high, Direct x just keeps on giving.

we are gonna see some mind bending games in the coming years, and have already seen this year some breathtaking developement.

death of quality?

the wave is swelling and i as a gamer am waiting with my boogie board, as an amature programmer, my mind boggles at the futures prospects of the medium.

bring it on!

dead?! dead like a zombie!

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
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zenassem
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 16:33 Edited at: 30th Nov 2011 16:43
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Indie game Cortex Command is coming along nicely (though slowly),, especially multiplayer,, and the mod community.
http://www.datarealms.com/games.php




[Multiplayer]


[Features]


~ZENassem
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 16:52
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Eh, I still like modern games.

CE was top of the line for 2001, and the remake seems to be just as good now.

Skyrim, obviously, is a giant glut of value for money. It's just glorious.

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Quik
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 17:22
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Crysis 2 were fine, although a LOT more linear gameplay than the first, which is its only and major letdown

anyway: BF3 and MW3 i have yet to try either of these but both look very nice imo

RO2 being my absolute favorite this year, very solid shooting there

Skyrim is also BRILLIANT

SPAZ is a really cool indie game

Trine was great

all M&B games are really REALLY awesome

Victoria 2 is also great

Bastion - awesome

Zeno Clash.. wait that was released in 09 still awesome

DUNGEON DEFENDERS.

guys, i could go on and on...


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 17:45
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Quote: "Crysis 2 were fine, although a LOT more linear gameplay than the first, which is its only and major letdown"


I forgot about that. Until Skyrim that was my favourite game this year. Extremely fun gameplay, pity about the move to linearity. I suppose it was part of the process of not needing a 1Tb Graphics Card to run it anymore.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 22:06
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You guys remember RTS games?

R.I.P

'nuff said.


I am not a fan of MLP , but that's just me
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Quik
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 22:25
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thats true!

I basicly see no Base building RTSes anymore
and EA dug C&Cs grave with the 4th game

RA3 was utterly worthless in many ways

I miss the old school RTS...
World in Conflict is probably the only game in its genre that i liked


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Rampage
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 23:13
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I've love modern games! Especially the rise of popular indie games.
I love Terraria, sorta got into Minecraft, I can see the attraction, but didn't play it all too much. Also like Dungeons of Dredmor, The Binding of Izaac etc.
Skyrim is a no brainer, brilliant, brilliant game.
The rise of PVP based games is really good as that is what I am into
I used to play LoL... After playing HoN beta I was sorta overwealmed by the difficulty so LoL was perfect and noob friendly for me.
Then I went back to HoN once I had a bit of skill, and have enjoyed the competitive experience much more

I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins. Although Dragon Age 2 was...meh.
I just got LA. Noire free from a friend on Xbox, so I've been playing that in my free time and it's really quite a good game.
I love the whole detective thing xD

I liked playing Deus Ex. Even though I still haven't finished it.

So no...While I loved the 90's Final Fantasy's and Zelda's... I still love Modern games.

Just not Call of Duty


Regards,

Max
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Eminent
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Posted: 30th Nov 2011 23:47
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My favourite game this year, including both indies and AAA games, is probably King Arthurs Gold. It's an awesome little indie, where you capture a flag in medieval times and build fortresses and castles. SKyrim is a close second and BF3 is third.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 00:08
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Quote: "I basicly see no Base building RTSes anymore"


StarCraft 2 anyone?

You don't even need another RTS... ever again.

http://lossofanonymity.wordpress.com
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 01:52 Edited at: 1st Dec 2011 01:52
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Hey RTS games? it sounds kinda familiar like i heard that somewhere before. Its weird this "RTS" term seemes to trigger a memory from my past like really long time ago, but i cant tell what it is....
Supressed memories perhaps? i read about that once, like when the brain blocks a traumatising memory from your past/childhood.
Wow if what i am saying is true, this "RTSgames" thing must have traumatized me pretty good.

hmm i still wonder what it means?...


dont hate people who rip you off,cheat and get away with it, learn from them
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MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 03:04
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Rip out the old PS1 (or a pc emulator lol) plug in ANY RPG game and live a good game just as if it was released yesterday... Aaaah nostalgia...

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ionstream
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 04:22
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Is "videogames were better in my day" the new "music was better in my day"? Videogames continue to be fantastic today. And there was plenty of crap back 10-20 years ago too, just replace first person shooters with side scrolling platformers.

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Quik
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 06:19
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Quote: "StarCraft 2 anyone?"


yeah that game is awesome, but WAY to serious for my taste, its way to fast paced and too much focused on building as much as possible in the least amount of time

I like it a bit slower, a bit more relaxed and a bit more "think things through and take it cool"

aka: C&C 3 best RTS i have yet to play
and SC 1 with friends on a LAN was pretty cool aswell..


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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DevilLiger
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 08:12
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I have starcraft 2 and it's not my taste either. i got it for my b-day luckily.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 16:57
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@Ionstream

I agree. Peopl;e only remember the rare gems, like Half Life 1. Saying that every game was as good as Half Life 1 back in the 90s is silly, because it quite clearly wouldn't have been as revolutionary were that the case.

Every generation has its swamp of terrible works, from which pinnacles of design reach out to amaze us. Skyrim this year shows that out of a bunch of generic shooter sequel releases, a sequel can come out and be something amazing and new, rather than a simple continuation of old formulae and stories.

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Quik
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:03
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Quote: " Half Life 1 back in the 90s is silly, because it quite clearly wouldn't have been as revolutionary were that the case."


I cant say that i really see how it was revolutionary -> i can see how its a good game though, even if its not to my tastes..


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:17
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I think mainly due to you being in control the whole time, which only made it more frightening that the entire world around you was going out of control.

Whereas in cutscenes you often sit back and let events roll through.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:18
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Quote: "I cant say that i really see how it was revolutionary -> i can see how its a good game though, even if its not to my tastes.."


www.1up.com/features/essential-50-half-life


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TheComet
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Posted: 1st Dec 2011 17:29
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Quote: "You guys remember RTS games?

R.I.P"


Well RTS games are really hard to make... FPS games are really simple, that's why the majority of games are FPS games. Command and Conquer, WarCraft series, StarCraft series... Those are some that stuck to me in some way.

TheComet

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 01:17
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Quote: "Well RTS games are really hard to make... FPS games are really simple, that's why the majority of games are FPS games. Command and Conquer, WarCraft series, StarCraft series... Those are some that stuck to me in some way."


What?? There is absolutely no way you can say an FPS game is easier to make then a RTS or vis-versa Genre has nothing to do with it.

http://www.jlmoondog.com/
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heyufool1
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 01:36
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Quote: "What?? There is absolutely no way you can say an FPS game is easier to make then a RTS or vis-versa Genre has nothing to do with it. "

From a programming perspective the genre definitely has an impact on difficulty. I never programmed a RTS before but I would imagine that the enemy AI would be difficult. However, I have programmed arcade games and FPS's. The simplest arcade game would have to be pong and the simplest FPS would be something like Doom. Pong is clearly easier to make than Doom or any FPS for that matter. Obviously that was a huge comparison in genres, but the point remains.

"So hold your head up high and know. It's not the end of the road"

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JLMoondog
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 02:11
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Your comparing games not the genre itself. I'm still sticking with my comment, you can't compare genres in terms of production difficulty. The game mechanics and content itself you can compare. The two genre's are really very vague when it comes down to it.

http://www.jlmoondog.com/
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nonZero
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 15:53
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Quote: " There is absolutely no way you can say an FPS game is easier to make then a RTS or vis-versa Genre has nothing to do with it. "


comment = TRUE.

It depends on the mechanics of the game VS the package you use to make the game. An FPS game only seems easier to make because of the myriad of tools available today. But try and program one without using a 3D engine (ie Write your own). You'll find that without a 3D engine, an FPS game MAY EVEN BE HARDER to make than an RTS because you can still use isometric view 2D graphics to make an RTS look 3D. As for AI, that's down to logic and depends on the programmer, irrespective of the language and tools. Those old MS-DOS chess and checkers games were seriously evil.

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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 16:16 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2011 16:21
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I have yet to see any GOOD FPS AIs neither any GOOD RTS AIs out there in the up to date games

and yet youre saying its harder to make RTS AIs when FPS ai is on the same ground?
pf.

edit:
*facepalms*
I NEVER NOTICED YOU HAVE BECOME A MOD JOSH?
many congratz on that!!


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Van B
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 16:23
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Actually, my younger brother has just started a course on game design, so we started a little project together. He wanted to make a FPS, until I explained the mechanics involved - so were making an RTS game instead!

I think the problem with FPS game development is that things all have to be spot on perfect. Collision detection, bullet handling, media, character design, physics, animation... it all has to be top notch, because it's all right there in front of the player - any glitches or sloppy work is magnified.
I suggested a good old fashioned RTS because more people are interested in playing an indi RTS than an indi FPS (IMO, most indi FPS games are dreadful), but mainly it'll be quite fun to do an RTS, all that fascinating AI development, and less stress on media quality which is very handy.

Maybe there should be a shrodinger style experiment. Get 2 developers, get them in a locked office each, with a cyanide capsule, and a PC. Tell one of them to write a FPS, and the other to write an RTS - and see which one finishes, and which one munches the cyanide . Personally, I think that RTS games have bigger hurdles to tackle, but there's less of them.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
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TheComet
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 18:08
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Quote: "I have yet to see any GOOD FPS AIs neither any GOOD RTS AIs out there in the up to date games"


-StarCraft II
-Battlefield III

TheComet

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Quik
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 18:38
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Quote: "-StarCraft II
-Battlefield III
"


never played StarCraft on any of the higher difficulties, but i do know that most RTS AIs solves the AI problem by letting the AI cheat
not sure if thats the case in SC2, but i never played any of the higher difficulties on it anyway


and i have yet to try BF3, and once i do ill most likely not get onto its (judging from 30 minute mid campaign gameplay) extremely rubbish campaign...

~~


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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TheComet
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2011 19:24
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Quote: "but i do know that most RTS AIs solves the AI problem by letting the AI cheat
not sure if thats the case in SC2"


SC2s AI is considered the most real AI for an RTS game. If you play against a computer, then watch the replay, you are able to see where it clicks, what it's selecting etc.

TheComet

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 02:48
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Quote: "I have yet to see any GOOD FPS AIs neither any GOOD RTS AIs out there in the up to date games

and yet youre saying its harder to make RTS AIs when FPS ai is on the same ground?"

You must not have played very many games of either genre then. Or your meaning of the word 'good' is entirely just weird.

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Quik
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 04:18
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Quote: "You must not have played very many games of either genre then. Or your meaning of the word 'good' is entirely just weird."


my meaning of GOOD in the form or RTS, is NON CHEATING RTS AI, thus meaning they make it skillfull instead of cheating (mostly pointing a big finger at C&C 3 here)

my meaning of GOOD in the form of FPS is most MILITARY FPS where the AI usually is as crappy as it can be: I have yet to see one FPS where they react "realisticly". Usually i see guys running around not knowing what is in or what is out, where to go but merely lock onto player and move cover every now and then.

I know it was a BIG fuss about Crysis AI being AWESOME before it was released, once i played it I was veery dissappointed (even more so with the second Crysis)

Skyrims AI is very.. worthless (combat AI) as its: lock on starget and run towards it pretty much, which is sad...


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 04:31
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I agree with QUIK here... its not impossible to make AI that uses alrernative planning/strategies... however I suppose its budgets that cut this back...

GTA 4 seemed to have good AI to an extent in the essense of cops ... if you get me... would be nice if in GTA5 they create aggressive AI hehe

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heyufool1
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2011 14:53
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Quote: "my meaning of GOOD in the form of FPS is most MILITARY FPS where the AI usually is as crappy as it can be: I have yet to see one FPS where they react "realisticly". Usually i see guys running around not knowing what is in or what is out, where to go but merely lock onto player and move cover every now and then."

FEAR had some effective AI. I don't 100% remember Fear 2 and I haven't played Fear 3, but the original was great fun in terms of AI.

"So hold your head up high and know. It's not the end of the road"

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