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Geek Culture / Longhorn details

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heartbone
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 17:53
http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/default.aspx?pull=/msdnmag/issues/04/01/DevelopingAppsforLonghorn/default.aspx



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heartbone
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 17:56
"Revolutionary File Storage System" Lets Users Search and Manage Files Based on Content

http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/default.aspx?pull=/msdnmag/issues/04/01/WinFS/default.aspx



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Ian T
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 18:18
So they couldn't even leave Notepad alone. I bet even it'll be making BSODs every other minute

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 18:35
I'm looking forward to Longhorn...


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David T
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 19:16
ditto here, We need something totally new in the PC world

I think somebody should totally redesign the GUI, it'd be interesting to see what people would have come up with if the X-Windows system wasn't used

"The trouble with the French is that they have no word for 'entreprenuer'" - Pres. George W Bush
Ian T
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 19:53
GDI is out, I think you've got your wish.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 21:20
hmm very interesting
:strokes beard:



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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 21:28 Edited at: 28th Oct 2003 21:31
Quote: "I think somebody should totally redesign the GUI"


The appearence of the GUI has not changed, underneath it will be completely changed to a new system called Aero, which is rather like Apple's (bow down) Quartz.

Aero is a DirectX 9 powered interface, and if it is as good as promised, it will be a welcome change to the XP UI (GDI+) which is AFAIK essentially unchanged since Windows 95 (except with the addition of theme support).

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 21:29
Most of those features are in there and currently working, but I spotted a few that are still place holders

I'm still not sure if the final product will be TCPA or not. Cuase the Beta is now (if you find it online then its either an old build or not real, because you've now got to use your processor's hardware key to register it). Would be interesting to know, probably not ... but the way Microsoft work you never know.


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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 21:32 Edited at: 28th Oct 2003 21:38
Oh yes... that reminds me. Aero isn't in the leaked Longhorn build from the PDC conference currently taking place.

On the subject of the link at the top of this thread, is it me or does this all seem needlessly complex.

David T
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 21:46
I really meant chang the underlying concepts of the GUI, not the drawing engine etc.


How would you do an OS GUI if you couldn't use a windows-alike interface? Just wondering tis a hard one

"The trouble with the French is that they have no word for 'entreprenuer'" - Pres. George W Bush
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 22:13
Might seem needlessly complex but I think its being developed with a more comprehendable/inginuitive structure
I mean they've finally got thier totally new Kernel going using WinFS... feels like a totally different system to 9x/XP
I mean it isn't different, just feel different if that makes sense.
It's a damn sight faster, and seems very stable

Though remember Windows is still the most complex and fully featured Operating System on the market today. Unlike Linux where you have different versions for different sectors, Windows is aimed at every computer user. So it has to have Business, Gamers, Home Users setups and such.
If you've checked out Windows XP Media Center 2004, you'll see in that alot of the new Media technologies due for .Net

should be good now that nvidia are officially helping to develop it until release, should make for a truely multimedia capable OS for the home. I like being able to flick satillite and radio channels on my PC without affecting PC operations. Even play through the PCs Media Player Series 9.


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Easily Confused
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 22:20
I suppose the big question is, how stable current applications will be when run on this OS?

We've got a bit of time to wait though, it's not scheduled for realese until 2006 at the earliest.

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
Rob K
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 22:33
Quote: "Might seem needlessly complex but I think its being developed with a more comprehendable/inginuitive structure "


I think that would contradict Microsoft's design philosophy.

Apparently the PDC build of Longhorn is slow, unstable and memory hungry - yay (It is a beta though)

the_winch
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 23:08
Quote: "How would you do an OS GUI if you couldn't use a windows-alike interface? Just wondering tis a hard one"


I think it would look very similar to windows. Perhaps if you where to invent something other than a mouse and keyboad to interact with it would look different.

Personally I would integrate the CLI and keyboard a lot reducing the reliance on the mouse and makeing tasks quicker. Xp is really bad for this, it sometimes takes 3 or 4 clicks to do something that could take 1.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Oct 2003 23:55
the current beta is fast... close to Windows Millennium Edition speed wise, and i've only come across minor problems.
As for memory hungry they finally fixxed the dynamic memory allocation problems

last 3-4 releases its swollowed gigs like a 5yo with candy, but this current one is much better. Resources automatically clear themselves now on idle, and the 64bit modes help with speed considerably.

Considering its still got another year and a half development to go it is shaping up nicely


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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 00:20
'I think that would contradict Microsoft's design philosophy.'

It contradicts it twofold considering that that would be... an innovation .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
heartbone
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 01:05
TCA: "I'm looking forward to Longhorn..."

Why?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 06:29
Longhorn is as close to WindowsXP as Windows 3.11 is to Windows 95
They are completely different systems.

Prior to the TCPA introduction it was using a Windows XP Base, it is now standing on an 18month developed Kernel. Windows .Net is quite frankly a total break from Windows... Although still going to be built around the .Net structures, it's core setup is actually completely different.
This is to compliment the final stages of AMD's x86-64 and IBM's new CyriX64 being developed.

The stage really is set for the new 64bit Windows Era, rather than this support being simply additional registers like Windows XP 64-Bit, Windows2000 and Windows Server 2003 ... they're actually developing this specifically around the x86-64 structure.

Essentially just as Windows 3.11 was the final 16bit Operating System giving rise to Windows 95 the first of the 32bit Windows line, Windows .Net/Nx will also be making the same leap.

Windows9x/NT Support is given through the new Operating Environments, different to the previous legacy support which only gave the registry setup and access Kernel for the older programs through and emulation layer. Windows .Net/Nx will give users the ability to quickly switch and even run in tandum additional Enirvonment Layers. These Layers include MacOSX, Unix as well as the legacy Windows 9x/NT/DOS Operating Environments.
All of these features are set to be controled using the Windows-Anix Display. This display at a glance will allow each environment to co-exist within the Windows .Net/Nx Operating System utilising Dynamic Resources, however at the same time their resources are never allowed to overlap.

Personally think it all sounds pretty good and they already have the first Anix installed Unix, which you can actually place your own kernel within the area and restart.
the majorly cool thing you can do is using the COD which allows you to actually make changes to the Anix (or atleast Unix one) in realtime using the Anix Build Environment. It only currently seems to support C# and MASM but still thats a pretty awesome feature.

There are alot of other cool features that I wanna get my head around when I have the time


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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 08:21
I'd appreciate some site with a rundown on what the advantages of a 64bit architecture are. I know that's a wide and rather dumb question, but it really seems like it's a world of possiblities with no real development or usage yet-- kind of like when DirectX 9 first came out and all the 3d gurus were saying 'in a year we'll actually be able to see how good it is at what it's supposed to do'...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 09:23
well you've seen Half-Life2 and such... you know what DirectX9 can really do
i can't show you the site with the 64bit Windows rundown as the only one i know is MSDN Subscribers only (have a spare $380?)
however the AMD site has alot about the structure of the new x86-64 processor.
IBM also have been updating some new here and there about thier new partnership with nvidia & thier new CyriX64 in the works.

From what IBM have done for nvidia (FX5700) ... and the on-going partnerships of all three companies in providing the best technical solutions. What this is going to mean is far more power.

Right now all it means is the Athlon64 FX-50 2.2ghz and FX-51 2.6ghz are capable of out performing the Pentium4 3.2C HT and AthlonXP 3400+ with a very comfortable margin.

the FX-50 is infact capable of out performing both by upto 50%, and this is under an unoptimised OS.
Speedwise we can see a possible speed climb of close upto 3x in some cases ... the new registers are also on a seperate bus, from the original x86 legacy registers which means you can still use the processor as a standard 2.2ghz processor whilst you also use the new x86-64 area for 64bit specific tasks.


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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 10:38
Quote: "Personally I would integrate the CLI and keyboard a lot reducing the reliance on the mouse and makeing tasks quicker. Xp is really bad for this, it sometimes takes 3 or 4 clicks to do something that could take 1."


Well, i run 3 to 4 desktops when i am making a website. I have CMD line APACHE and PHP running on one. Browsers Running on another (Mozilla and IE usually). Editor / PHP Manual / Forums running on another. Outlook / MSN / Usual stuff on the lasy (Sometimes these are on the third one.)

Also i use shortcuts everywhere. Alt + Tab to change windows. Ctrl + Number to move to desktop. I also have all the programs i need on the pined to the start menu (IE, Outlook, Medal Of Honor, Notepad) Then i have the list of recently used progs which makes things nice and easy to get to (Like Paint Shop Pro)

Web Design Starting from $200. Special limited offer. MSN or Email me for more information.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 12:30
Talking of new things - The Iyonix XScale (the successor to StrongARM) RISC PC is now out - the complete OS is in 4Mb of ROM apparently (which is 2Mb more than the RiscPC). Looks very nice (and probably very fast too).

If there was a chance that it would sell (and there was the software for it), I'll probably get one. But as there isn't, and it wont, I wont...

http://www.iyonix.com/


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Rob K
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 17:29
Quote: "the current beta is fast... close to Windows Millennium Edition speed wise, and i've only come across minor problems.
As for memory hungry they finally fixxed the dynamic memory allocation problems"


Paul Thurott (Windows Fanatic, Linux & Max Basher extraordinaire (sp?) ) reckons that Explorer is much slower under Longhorn, and that 512MB is a baseline requirement. Seeing as he is actually at PDC, and actually has access to the build, I believe him.

Ian T
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 18:26
' close to Windows Millennium Edition speed wise '

A lobotomized snail, molassass in a New England winter, and Trinity in bullet-time come to mind. I hope they have classical music for the wait periods.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 18:28
Quote: "...that Explorer is much slower under Longhorn, and that 512MB is a baseline requirement."

No doubt the speed will be improved upon during other beta releases. I suspect the 512Mb will stay and be the minimum requirement.


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heartbone
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 18:39 Edited at: 29th Oct 2003 18:41
When this Longhorn ("trusted computing") comes, Raven you guys can have it.

I for one will be developing in another OS, most likely Linux.

I sincerely hope that a Linux port is in TGC's plans.

-------------------------

TCA you ignored my simple question?

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 18:45
heartbone, there is/was a WIP openGL renderer for Pro... not sure how it's going now but it looked pretty good.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 19:35 Edited at: 29th Oct 2003 19:37
Quote: "you ignored my simple question"

Where ? What was it ? Oh, that one - do like programming new things, plus it looks very nice to use. Trusted computer should stop virus and things too.


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heartbone
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 22:03
"Trusted computer should stop virus and things too."

True but at a price that's too high.

Does anyone remember what the letters PC mean?

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 22:16
Agreed. Frankly the idea of Microsoft being able to completely access everything on your computer-- which the whole idea with Longhorn-- sickens me.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Rob K
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Posted: 29th Oct 2003 23:31 Edited at: 29th Oct 2003 23:32
Quote: "No doubt the speed will be improved upon during other beta releases."


I really hope so. XP got slower between the early betas and the final release

Microsoft generally get things right in the end. Hopefully security will be improved in Longhorn.

Ian T
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 00:12
'in the end'

Generally after several version increases and a lot of customers putting up with an awful first releases. Take Windows 98, Windows ME (which they never did fix), Word, and DirectX.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 00:21
Quote: "Does anyone remember what the letters PC mean"

And it wont change with Longhorn - I think you've been watching 1984 once too often.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 01:25
Quote: "Paul Thurott (Windows Fanatic, Linux & Max Basher extraordinaire (sp?) ) reckons that Explorer is much slower under Longhorn, and that 512MB is a baseline requirement. Seeing as he is actually at PDC, and actually has access to the build, I believe him."


believe what you want, but since WinFS was actually introduced the speed has increased 10 fold ... and the ram requirements are only 128mb, you only require more than that if your using FAT32 and technically you don't require more - its just that honestly I wouldn't touch the FAT32 system without more as its just too slow.
It's about equal speed to XP Pro, which without atleast 512mb or more it is just too sluggish for my likes.
On NTFS and WinFS a different story entirely, especially using the new SATA setup.

Quote: "Hopefully security will be improved in Longhorn."

if they stick with TCPA, there is no was in hell anyones hacking it... if they don't then people are going to keep targeting Microsoft like they always have.
Sickening really because it's not microsoft's fault that there are a few morons out there who think its big and clever to hack thier systems. I mean everyone knows that Linux is far easier to hack into, the only reason people don't is because its popular and each variation has different security weaknesses.
Windows however is always (or used to be) the same base.

WinFS is suppose to actively combat hacking, and the brand new messaging system is suppose to be more closed off from remote accessing.

Quote: "Generally after several version increases and a lot of customers putting up with an awful first releases. Take Windows 98, Windows ME (which they never did fix), Word, and DirectX."

People get tired of waiting, remember Win98 was original suppose to be Windows97 ... in the end they rushed it out because of pressure and aparently this was a bad thing (but then i never liked either of them)

Windows ME was a testbed for all of the XP Junkett and actually 9/10 what caused the instability was the users not WinME. They'd use bog standard Win9x drivers instead of WinME/WHQL drivers and then they'd wonder why the system was so incompatible.
Though MS should've really added a protection error against it, but then within the year they'd replaced it with Windows XP.

Word, i don't remember ever using a buggy version of that.

and DirectX was probably the most infamouse fixxes for one of the BIGGEST mistakes they'd made in the world.
In Windows95 they took away direct hardware access, something that they still really haven't given back ... and DirectX was created primarily as an layer patch so that developers could once again access thier hardware directly.
Wasn't suprising that the patch would needs to be fixxed and improved itself.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 01:32
'believe what you want, but since WinFS was actually introduced the speed has increased 10 fold'

And we're to take your opinion over those of technical experts who have actually used the OS? No, don't tell me you have, I'm not buying any of that after you saying you'd tested HL2.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
empty
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 01:56
Quote: "I mean everyone knows that Linux is far easier to hack into"

Ah, yes.
LOL

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She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
DMXtra
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 13:02
I am happy for Microsoft. I hope linux sticks around because its good for Microsoft to have some competition. I personally wouldn't run Linux, I have tried it many times and its simply not worth the effort. Its more hype than anything else. I guess if thats the best that people can come up with is linux then I feel bad for the Computer Industry.

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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 15:05 Edited at: 30th Oct 2003 15:07
The main problems I with Linux were : If there was a serious crash, it would take out the whole machine; your still exepected to use the CLI for important things (which is stupid); KDE looks rather cheap and tacky; most software is always in a 'in beta' state; very few native games/programs etc and doesn't support the latest hardware. I wont go on.

If DBPro was converted to another computer, the best bet would be to go for Apple. Normally, I would say the Ioynix machines, but RISC OS has BASIC built-in, and not many people would buy these machines anyway (unfortunately).

Its a shame Be. Inc went bankrupt - that was a very nice OS.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 15:59
'I have tried it many times and its simply not worth the effort. Its more hype than anything else.'

And that explains why major companies use Linux for their internet servers? Google is completely Linux-based; Blizzard's game servers run Linux. Microsoft was even forced to revert to it when their servers were under attack a few weeks ago.

'your still exepected to use the CLI for important things (which is stupid)'

The mouse does nothing but slow you down. Keyboard is faster for everything .

' KDE looks rather cheap and tacky'

I think KDE 3 looks far better than XP's default theme, and it's far more stable.

'most software is always in a 'in beta' state'

Curse of open source...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 16:42 Edited at: 30th Oct 2003 16:43
Quote: "And that explains why major companies use Linux for their internet servers?"

And thats the only real place it can be used reliably - places where you wont be regularly upgrading hardware and where you wont have anything particularly new to start with anyway.

Quote: "I think KDE 3 looks far better than XP's default theme, and it's far more stable"

ho ho

In my programs I always try and keep the user away from the keyboard as much as possible, for a keyboard = user errors.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 17:09
Quote: "And that explains why major companies use Linux for their internet servers? Google is completely Linux-based; Blizzard's game servers run Linux. Microsoft was even forced to revert to it when their servers were under attack a few weeks ago."


Linux is free and will run happily without regular maintainance.
Thats the only reason it is still chosen, costs.
Windows Server 2003 is actually cheaper in the longrun but costs alot in License... whereas any host master cna sit there on a 250mbit line download RedHat in a matter of 10-15mins and then use the self-installation to get going.

As for Microsoft, they only reverted as a precautionary measure.
Thier currently converted Server 2003 systems weren't breeched, however systems that connected that were using older systems were. And they're weren't sure what the problem was at first.
They're not a stupid company...

you know why Windows has such a bad rep and Linux doesn't?
it's because it is the stupid hate mongering Linux kiddies that seem to have a personal grudge against Bill Gates (regardless to the fact that he is just a suit, one of 24 on the board with no greater or less power than any of the rest) and think its big and clever to hack Windows and plant something nasty. Just to prove its possible.

Oh and it is ALWAYS a Linux kiddie, it is never someone who uses MacOS or Solaris or FreeBSD... it is always the Linux crowd.
Probably think thier somehow being all amazing showing ::coughdocumentedcough:: weaknesses within the Windows Operating System, it isn't going to stop people using Windows though no matter what they think. All they do is piss everyone off who is currently using Windows.

Might have a few other begruded users who would rather use Linux, sit there and go "serves M$ right" (god i hate that $ symbol regarding microsoft, i know of companies more money hungry ... SONY for example. Just checkout the FFXI account details if you wanna know what i mean) ... and you have like the other 80-90% odd who are just like "what the hell are people making MY life a misery for?"

most users don't give a crap what some script kiddie thinks is the best OS, they just want THIER system to work the way it should. So all that happens is you hear about another virus and another worm aimed at windows and microsoft users ... all you think is "what the hell did i do!?"

Quote: "I think KDE 3 looks far better than XP's default theme, and it's far more stable."

Matter of opinion, i've crashed KDE countless times without effort ... alot of Linuxians said "you should learn to use Linux better then!" - but quite frankly I don't see why the hell i should understand an OS intimately before being able to use to any decent degree.

And honestly I prefer the bright colours of WindowsXP and Windows .Net/Nx ... they're softer on my eyes and although thier big and like 'duplo' honestly, it makes it seem more friendly to use.

Quote: "The mouse does nothing but slow you down. Keyboard is faster for everything "


Not everyone wishes to work at the speed of light
Some people prefer a graphical representation to everything to give ita friendlier face.
And in certain situations the mouse can speed up tasks, oh yeah not forgetting with the mouse you only have to remember -
Right-Click = Menu ... Left-Click = Action
rather than... copy is blah blah, delete is blah blah, etc... you don't need to remember.

Not to mention selections are far simpler, say you only wanted to delete 2 types of files from 2 folders.
In windows you can Search->Delete
Or open both folders, set to details view (so far each folder is 1xdouble click, 2 clicks to set view) click on the type detail to group them to types, then scroll clicking and holding over the first time pulling down the window to select all. Then using the scroll bar going to the next file type and then using Ctrl-LMB selecting the new box of files to add to the selection. Do for both windows and then press delete.
All gone! (under Linux this would be a very different story to pull off and it would require knowlage of the CLI commands to do at any speed)
Windows isn't without its own version of CLI anyways, it has the Command Environment.

Oh yeah and not forgetting the far simpler and faster to use and modify Multiple Desktop/Montiors.

Quote: "'most software is always in a 'in beta' state'
Curse of open source..."

these OSs however don't make everything opensource, ONLY what they must. Which means basically the Kernel and that is it.
There is often minimum community particupation in the large version of the software,
Knoppix, Mandrake, RedHat, etc...
really they're now developing and designing similar to Windows.

Hell you know you can get Windows Source for FREE (well cept p&p) from Microsoft Developers Network right?
Everything open to current high-end linux packages is also open to Windows packages as well.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 17:48
Oh boy... okay, fine, here we go.


'Thats the only reason it is still chosen, costs.'

Then why did Microsoft switch from Server 2003 to Linux when their server systems started faltering? Their operating systems are still extremely unstable. 'precautionary measure' is nonsense-- Linux is open source, good grief, if it was the same level of quality as server 2003, imagine how many people would be able to shred it to bits.

'it's because it is the stupid hate mongering Linux kiddies'

...stupid hate mongering Windows fanboys...

'it isn't going to stop people using Windows though no matter what they think.'

I think you're completely missing the point.

'Matter of opinion, i've crashed KDE countless times without effort'

And you can't crash any Windows OS without effort? Linux crashes very rarely, no matter how much I task it, where as 95, 98, ME, 2000 and XP have all crashed frequently when I'm generally being very careful with the system (though 2000 comes near a Linux level... at the sacrifice of speed).

'Some people prefer a graphical representation to everything to give ita friendlier face.'

Yes, and some people prefer big, plush buttons, 'you've got mail' and asking Clippy everything like he's actually an AI instead of looking it up in help. Need I say more?

'Right-Click = Menu ... Left-Click = Action
rather than... copy is blah blah, delete is blah blah, etc... you don't need to remember.'

Your memory may not be able to handle it but mine and other intelligent Linux users can . Anyone who can type faster than 15wpm can get those commands done before they can be excecuted with the mouse.

' (under Linux this would be a very different story to pull off and it would require knowlage of the CLI commands to do at any speed)'

Some people bother to learn the CLI. On top of that, I might note that Linux has mass rename, selected move, and sorting capabilities, and Windows still doesn't.

'Windows isn't without its own version of CLI anyways, it has the Command Environment.'

If it didn't it'd be pretty much useless for anything past light gaming and productivity tasks. A CLI is critical.

'really they're now developing and designing similar to Windows.'

They're beginning to make things more user-friendly, and no, they're not copying Windows, they're copying OS X if they're copying anything (which is what XP nabbed its design from).

'Hell you know you can get Windows Source for FREE (well cept p&p) from Microsoft Developers Network right?'

Can you compile and sell your own version? Thought not

'Everything open to current high-end linux packages is also open to Windows packages as well.'

I don't even need to comment on that. Do rudimentary research and you'll find a boatload of Linux capabilities that prove otherwise.

Just becuase Linux is too complicated for you dosen't make it an inferior OS to Windows .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 18:41
Quote: "Just becuase Linux is too complicated for you dosen't make it an inferior OS to Windows"

It drastically limits who can use it. Most of the people I deal with at work, literally have trouble resetting their machines (so you can imagine the trouble it would cause having to use Linux).
If everyone knew how to use computers then it would be a different matter (or perhaps Linux was actually more friendly).

As for crashing XP - no I haven't yet - no blue screens. The only time it gets even remotely close is when I do something wrong in DBPro. It should be noted that I tend to upgrade the machine as soon as any updates are availiable.


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the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 30th Oct 2003 19:12
Quote: "It drastically limits who can use it. Most of the people I deal with at work, literally have trouble resetting their machines (so you can imagine the trouble it would cause having to use Linux)."


Thats one of it's main advantages but then I like knowing a bit about how things work and am prepared to spend a bit of time learning if it has benifits.

It's a mindset thing mostly I think, if you think a certain way linux is very easy and quick to use, if you think another way then windows will be more logical and easier.

You could set linux up so the "how do you turn it on" people would have no trouble using it just as you can with windows.

Unfortunatly microsoft are making it more incovenient for the user to use their os in the way they want, for someone who can use linux it will eventually become too much hassle to use windows. I think this is a shame as xp was actually showing a lot of promise, I think microsoft could produce a damn good os if they could get the piracy and drm monkey off there back.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 19:51
Quote: "Unfortunatly microsoft are making it more incovenient for the user to use their os in the way they want"

How so ?


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heartbone
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Location: At home
Posted: 30th Oct 2003 22:28
Doesn't help their aiming though, does it?


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Oct 2003 23:19
'It drastically limits who can use it.'

The General Public(tm) can not use it all they want, it's still better.

'As for crashing XP - no I haven't yet - no blue screens.'

That's very unusual . I assume your system has bucketloads of RAM for Windows to waste.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
DMXtra
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Location: United States
Posted: 30th Oct 2003 23:36
Quote: "
And that explains why major companies use Linux for their internet servers? Google is completely Linux-based; Blizzard's game servers run Linux. Microsoft was even forced to revert to it when their servers were under attack a few weeks ago.
"


Just because linux is as cheap as a two dollar whore, doesn't mean its going to perform any better.

Its not used nearly as much as windows so thus its less prone to attacks. If it were reversed, Linux would be having issues like your mom giving birth.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.

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