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Geek Culture / How many of you use a Windows Phone?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 30th Dec 2011 22:01
Hey guys,

So I've been looking into WP7 phones recently, and I'm very impressed with Microsoft's take on a mobile OS. It's probably the most unique one to come out in a long time!

Anyhoo, I was just wondering who all uses a Windows phone, and what you like most about it, and what you dislike most about it.

One thing that intrigues me is the fact that you can use Visual Basic+Xna with the WP7.1 SDK to develop apps and games for WP7, or C#+Xna. I kind of want to get a Window Phone just to develop for it!

The only problem is Virgin Mobile USA doesn't carry them, and there's no news on whether or not they'll get one. So I'll have to switch carriers if I want a WP7.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Dec 2011 22:46
I can honestly say I've been tempted, I am thinking of replacing my phone at some point and the Windows 7 Phone OS looks pretty cool, so naturally I'll be interested in hearing some comments too.

The first thing I noticed is that there's not a great selection of Windows 7 Phones out there, especially on Pay As You Go, if I could find a reasonably priced one, it'd be all the more tempting. Maybe somebody can offer recommendations on decent Windows 7 mobiles too.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 31st Dec 2011 00:39
It is a surprisingly elegant UI; I've been playing with the Windows Phone SDK emulator and while it obviously isn't fully featured, the small stuff on it really shows how great the OS is.

Live tiles are cool...


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old_School
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Posted: 31st Dec 2011 02:50
Windows phone is amazing. Best phone out there I think.
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 31st Dec 2011 18:34
Hmm. Not many responses. I'm gonna say perhaps WP7 isn't that popular yet.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Dec 2011 19:15
Hang on...let me try something.


ANDROID SUCKS!!!*


Now lets seem how many people start posting about their opinions of Windows Phone 7.

Granted, given the above exclamatory sentence the chances are all comments will be negative. What's the phrase? Be careful of what you wish for.




*Disclaimer: This statement is false**

**Disclaimer: I will not take responsibility for any Artificial Intelligences destroyed by the previous statement.

Thraxas
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Posted: 31st Dec 2011 19:20
Omg no way. Android is totes the best thing Eva 4 phones. It can has be customized and ting. Widows phone r teh suck bcos it has less customisable things and stuff. AND it has rally stooped tv ads so it must be bags. Lol. BUT in saying all that things, their both betterer than iOs witch has no customisable and big buttons like for childsren.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 31st Dec 2011 21:03 Edited at: 31st Dec 2011 21:05
@Thraxas - Banned for 9 days for being totally wrong and smelly.

Before everyone starts launching into a flamewar (thanks to Thraxas' smelliness), here is a picture of a buttered crumpet, to calm people down:


On Topic:
I've been considering switching to W7 mobile when my android contract runs out. I find the direction Microsoft is going with their OS, Gaming and Mobile platforms rather intriguing.

MrValentine
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Posted: 31st Dec 2011 21:29 Edited at: 31st Dec 2011 21:30
I agree with BigAdd here...
And Sepp and Daddy...

EDIT

and Jer

The Zoq2
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Posted: 1st Jan 2012 00:49
I have never seen a WP... Wich makes me believe that the avalibility of apps is rather low... Still I may be entirely wrong!
Agent Dink
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2012 17:35
Yeah, I kind of figured Windows Phone was bad in the app department. I do like the unification that Microsoft is working on, but I don't know if I see them speeding up in the mobile/ mobile gaming market anytime soon. We'll see though.

http://lossofanonymity.wordpress.com
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2012 19:55
Yeah, I read somewhere that there's less than a 100,000 apps in the market... pretty low, all things considered.

But, that gives us a chance to start developing for it!


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MrValentine
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2012 19:58
I agree with Yoda... I do believe WP7 is in the road plan erm whats the phrase...

The Zoq2
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2012 20:54
Quote: "Yeah, I read somewhere that there's less than a 100,000 apps in the market... pretty low, all things considered. "


I didn't think there where that many...
Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jan 2012 05:37
Quote: "I agree with Yoda... I do believe WP7 is in the road plan erm whats the phrase..."


Can you explain what you mean? What road plan are you talking about?


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
MrValentine
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Posted: 4th Jan 2012 05:39 Edited at: 4th Jan 2012 05:40
AGK road plan¿ No?

EDIT

oh and agree that we have time to make stuff for it...

Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jan 2012 06:10
Quote: "AGK road plan¿ No?"


Ah, ok. You were the first to bring up AppGameKit in this thread so I didn't know what you were talking about.


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MrValentine
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Posted: 4th Jan 2012 06:43
Not to worry

Airslide
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 01:14 Edited at: 6th Jan 2012 01:16
Quote: "Ah, ok. You were the first to bring up AppGameKit in this thread so I didn't know what you were talking about"


Actually I was under the impression that Agent Dink was talking about Microsoft's attempt to unify Windows, Xbox, and Windows Phone development, likely with Silverlight.
BMacZero
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 03:32
Now I know what a crumpet looks like .

I've got a few very basic apps up there. It'll be interesting to see how many downloads they get over the next few weeks. I don't think I know anyone who has a Windows phone, I hadn't thought they were very popular...

Slayer267
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 04:47
Did Bigadd really ban Thraxas? Can mods ban eachother? Lol...

EPIC HELP! EPIC PWNAGE

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MrValentine
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 04:49
I forgot who did it but they can ban themselves too ahahahha someone did it once... was funny to read and think it was last new years

BiggAdd
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 05:26 Edited at: 6th Jan 2012 05:39
Quote: "Did Bigadd really ban Thraxas? Can mods ban eachother? Lol..."


Yes, but we fight it out to the Death. The banned mod gets to decide on the weapons we use.

He chose baguettes, it was a bad move, my father was a baker. I am a black belt in Taekwondough.

Unfortunately though, Thraxas is the only Mod who can fly, so he beat me. I took a swift baguette to the head and I am now dead.

MrValentine
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 05:32
Quote: " Taekwondough"


*chuckle*


Hodgey
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 05:40
He should have picked buttered crumpets. Everyone knows that they're BiggAdd's weakness.

On topic:
I haven't actually used a windows phone but Nokia has just released a Windows 7 phone I believe and Nokia are pretty good at what they do IMO. I might be tempted to get one later on...

bitJericho
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 11:22 Edited at: 6th Jan 2012 11:23
TGC's self defense training course ::




Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Jan 2012 12:43 Edited at: 6th Jan 2012 12:58
Quote: "I took a swift baguette to the head and I am now dead."


You too? I remember being killed in the Posting Competition. So how are you enjoying Hell? The Wifi signal is fantastic and the service here is amazing...also you tried any of Satan's barbecues? They're to die for...well I guess literally. I've actually got a game of tennis with Walt Disney this afternoon, I know, the guy was an anti-semite but we showed him the error of his ways with a few rounds of Hitler-ball, which involved a lot of kicking Hitler in the you-know-what. He also apologises for the Jonas Brothers, even though we know it's not his fault.

And have you met Ghandi yet? Who'd have thought it?

So I think Dante kind of over reacted over how he portrayed this place. I even met Arachnae down here, now I am a arachnophobic, but she informed me about her kind and cleared up a whole number of misconceptions, now I feel so ignorant for my ways.

Yodaman Jer
User Banned
Posted: 6th Jan 2012 17:33
Quote: "AGK road plan¿ No?"


I was wondering about this, actually. It was something I was going to bring up in my next post.

If AppGameKit supports it (and it shouldn't be all that hard to implement, seeing as it's Windows and all...), I will definitely buy a WP7 handset and start learning AppGameKit more. I've got a pretty good idea for a mobile game and it could be lots of fun, especially if it could be 3D someday...

Anyway, I'd make it exclusive to WP7, just to give Android and iOS users incentive to move to something fresh and exciting!

I've done research and I think I'll switch to Sprint to get the Wp7 phone they have. Looks pretty decent.


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old_School
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 07:04 Edited at: 7th Jan 2012 07:07
There is no AppGameKit and never could be for Windows phone. To make windows phone apps u just need Visual Studio 2010 or Visual Basic 2010 express or better. Express is free from Microsoft. So unless your AppGameKit is better then Microsofts Visual Studio, their is no need/market for TGC to build a AppGameKit for windows phone. The joy of being a VB dev my self is I can take any program Ive made in Vb and convert it over to a Windows Phone app in less then 5 clicks. So I have a app version and a PC version. I don't know if you can do that on Apple but likely not. Everything in Apple from what Ive seen is written in Objective C. But I dont know what AppGameKit or Apple phone apps are written in. I assume Objective C as well.
The Zoq2
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 10:04
The advantage of using AppGameKit is that you can write the code once tyähen deploy to Android, iOS, bada, blackberry, Windows, mac and I think maybe even a few more...
BiggAdd
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 10:41
Quote: "There is no AppGameKit and never could be for Windows phone. To make windows phone apps u just need Visual Studio 2010 or Visual Basic 2010 express or better. Express is free from Microsoft. So unless your AppGameKit is better then Microsofts Visual Studio, their is no need/market for TGC to build a AppGameKit for windows phone."


In your previous threads, you were quick to point people out on their "forum junk", so I'm going to do the same here.

AGK will undoubtedly be made for windows phone eventually. Why? Because thats the whole point of AGK. Build once, deploy everywhere.

You need a mac and XCode to compile and upload iOS apps, but you can still run AppGameKit apps on iOS, you just need XCode and a Mac.

Kendor
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 10:59 Edited at: 7th Jan 2012 10:59
Windows phone is part of the future AppGameKit platforms, so I say eventually, it will arrive.

Anyway, Windows Phone user here(yay for me).

I have a first-gen LG Optimus 7 and have been using it for the last couple of months. Navigation is very smooth, and really like the live tiles. For those that have never tried it, here is an interactive demo.

As for developing on it, you can either use C# or VB, using XNA for games and Silverlight for applications.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 12:32
Quote: "There is no AppGameKit and never could be for Windows phone. To make windows phone apps u just need Visual Studio 2010 or Visual Basic 2010 express or better. Express is free from Microsoft. So unless your AppGameKit is better then Microsofts Visual Studio, their is no need/market for TGC to build a AppGameKit for windows phone. The joy of being a VB dev my self is I can take any program Ive made in Vb and convert it over to a Windows Phone app in less then 5 clicks. So I have a app version and a PC version. I don't know if you can do that on Apple but likely not. Everything in Apple from what Ive seen is written in Objective C. But I dont know what AppGameKit or Apple phone apps are written in. I assume Objective C as well."


Erm...AGK doesn't need to be better than Visual Studio, the point of AppGameKit is to make development easier for indie/hobbyist game creators and to have the ability to deploy to multiple platforms with ease. Plus AppGameKit can run from within Visual Studio for those who wish to use it, just like we have Dark Basic Pro and Dark GDK.

For Mac, you just run it in XCode, which supports C, C++, Objective C, Objective C++, Java, Apple Script, Python and Ruby. And there's also support implemented by 3rd party developers too, such as C# and Pascal.

Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 14:11 Edited at: 7th Jan 2012 14:14
Quote: "AGK doesn't need to be better than Visual Studio, the point of AppGameKit is to make development easier for indie/hobbyist game creators and to have the ability to deploy to multiple platforms with ease."


^This.

I'd only use XNA to develop for Wp7 if I wanted to make the title exclusive to the phone. AppGameKit makes things so easy and is multi-platform, so that's what I'd use first for making quick little games, for Android and Wp7 and have them running on two devices just fine, only having to be written once.

I have nothing against XNA, in fact I'm learning it right now as we speak, but AppGameKit would just be easier to use as a first time app developer such as myself. Especially since I'm very familiar with DarkBASIC.

I did some more shopping, and there are not very many good WP7 phones on any of the carriers I'd consider going with. US Cellular's is pretty decent but it's exactly like the Sprint version, just slightly different in terms of specs I think.


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old_School
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 18:27 Edited at: 7th Jan 2012 18:28
Sorry was not sure 100% what AppGameKit was for I thought it was only for Apple. So my next question is why would you pay for something that you could get for free? Understand your concept of multi cross platform tool but Windows tools are free. So seriously convence me why I should give up a free tool for yours. I dont have a desire to make Android or Apple apps. If I wanted to make Android I just write it in Java, so please convence me. Im interested in the arguments as why the AppGameKit is better. Please don't take this in a rude fashion, Im seriously wondering how yours is better then free. Also why should I use a non-industry standard language to write my apps? Just wondering.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 20:00 Edited at: 7th Jan 2012 20:02
AGK will save you a lot of time in coming to your end result, you will save a lot of time as far as coding is concerned. Generally people spend money on engines/libraries/tools to speed up the development process and to make it quicker because a lot of the background work you need to do is done.

To code a game from scratch in C++, Visual Basic or C# it will take a LOT of work to achieve, even if you've download the DirectX SDK or are using Open GL for the graphical side of things and have access to a physics engine (like PhysX), a sound engine and so on. For Visual Studio there are numerous SDK's out there, some of them are free, for example Dark GDK found on this website, which is basically Dark Basic Pro, but usable inside of Visual Studio (and DarkGDK.NET for Visual Basic and C# usage). Dark GDK's commands are orientated towards the development of DirectX based programs. Using Dark GDK would eliminate a lot of the work you'd have using C++ & DirectX. So there's a 'free' option right there for you. There are others, for example, Irrlicht, which allows you to use OpenGl, therefore you can develop on Windows, MacOS and Linux. There's also XNA, whilst it's free to use it's not free if you wish to deploy to XBLA or if you want to make money. Different SDK's have different advantages and are built with different users and purposes in mind.

App Game Kit on the other hand is designed to be a multi-platform solution to deploy to multiple OS's, especially on mobile devices. It's meant to make development on those platforms easier for Indies - for example, if you wanted to code an input for a touch screen, it really only takes a couple of lines of code. It has its 'BASIC' editor, which is App Game Kit but inside of its own editor and functions much like Dark Basic and then there's its native library, which allows you to use it inside of C++, which functions like Dark GDK and other development kits you can get for it.


If you're not interested in going multiplatform, then it might not be for you.

But in short, in AppGameKit you can achieve more with less code. For the same reason I use DBP.

But at the end of the day it's about the user's needs. AppGameKit provides a simpler and faster solution, which is great for small or even 1 man teams. My argument is "why make the development process too difficult for yourself?"

If you're interested in learning more, why not try out the demo? You use Visual Basic a lot, so the App Game Kit and Dark Basic Pro shouldn't be too difficult to get to grips with. I've played with App Game Kit and it really is simple to use and it isn't difficult to get results out of.

MrValentine
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 21:35
Just want to point out DarkGDK.NET is not free but DarkGDK is... there are two editions

also PureGDK is not free but good for users who want to jump into C++ environments etc... I am still using DBPro at present

old_School
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 22:18 Edited at: 7th Jan 2012 22:20
Ok so that cleas up a few questions but creates some more in my mind. Simplier to me = limited. So what are the limits of this vs. using a more in depth language such as C# or VB which in my eyes are allready simple languages but allow very indepth creation. You also say alot of the background work is done. Do you mean forum type stuff like Visual Studio were it creates for you based on events style building or something else? Basicly Im looking for indepth details on how this is going to save me time and allow me to build with very little limits. To be honest, that was a may reason why I stopped devolpment with FPSC was because it was limited due to bugs.

I mean I own just about every TGC product for sale but I hardly use it now because it has a history of "limitations" and bugs. I'm all for the product if it works bug free 100%, comparable to whats on the market currently, provides a good platforum, 100% supports the .Net framework and works as advertised. Problem I'm seeing is you guys are just giving general information about my questions. I need details, examples etc. I have roughly 20 gigs or more of TGC products I don't use. I don't want to add to the collection, I want something I can use.

So far Visual Studio has been the most useful tool in my toolbox. Im not aginst adding more tools to the toolbox but I want to add only useful tools. I hope that makes sense. To be honest I would love to add FPSC to the useful toolbox but I can't. So please post some more descriptive details about this product. Also if/when it supports windows phone apps, we will have to buy the "new" version or will it be included as a upgrade? Prime example, I purchased DBpro once upon a time and two weeks later a new version was released that I would have to repay for it. Did not seem to fair since I just bought DBPro. Then DBPro went free shortly after anyway. So kinda got burned on that one. So will their be addational charges for "upgraded versions"?
Jeku
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 22:42
Quote: "I'm all for the product if it works bug free 100%"


Oh, I wasn't aware that Visual Studio was 100% bug free.

Quote: "I purchased DBpro once upon a time and two weeks later a new version was released that I would have to repay for it"


When did this happen? I purchased DBP in 2003 and haven't had to rebuy it yet. The updates are free.

-------


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 23:42
Hmm. I need to do this in order.

Quote: "Do you mean forum type stuff like Visual Studio were it creates for you based on events style building or something else?"


I'm assuming you meant "forms" and not "forums". To my knowledge, AppGameKit doesn't do this. But do you really need to actually build the form for a game? You don't even have to with C# and XNA so I'd really find it an unnecessary feature in AGK.

Quote: "Basicly Im looking for indepth details on how this is going to save me time and allow me to build with very little limits."


Others have given two main reasons: 1 is its "Write Once, Deploy Everywhere" functionality, which is a FANTASTIC move for TGC to do. One such as yourself can write a game, and then deploy it to various platforms with VERY little effort; no porting, no re-writing entire sections of code, it's all just ready to go, kind of like plug-'n-play. The other is the ease of the language; I actually find it simpler than DBP!

Quote: "I mean I own just about every TGC product for sale but I hardly use it now because it has a history of "limitations" and bugs."


This one statement is very odd to me. Yes, there are certain limitations DBP has, but most of them can be worked-around. I have no idea about other TGC products though, as the only ones I've used have been DBC/DBP/AGK's free trial. But if you found the productions limiting, why did you keep buying them?

Quote: "Problem I'm seeing is you guys are just giving general information about my questions. I need details, examples etc. I have roughly 20 gigs or more of TGC products I don't use. I don't want to add to the collection, I want something I can use."


Um. Okay. Here's where I'm gonna possibly sound pretty rude. We have given pretty good details, and if you need examples, check out the AppGameKit site and Google some YouTube videos of it. Look at the dedicated forums on it on this site.

Quote: "I purchased DBpro once upon a time and two weeks later a new version was released that I would have to repay for it. Did not seem to fair since I just bought DBPro. Then DBPro went free shortly after anyway."


TGC have NEVER charged for an upgrade. What're you talking about?

But yes. There probably will be additional upgrade fees for certain features. For example, once they knock together a 3D capable version, I saw Lee said somewhere they would probably charge for that, because they need to pay a team to maintain it. I would gladly pay for an upgrade though, especially one that adds awesome new functionality.

Not all upgrades will cost, though. I believe Lee said they wouldn't charge for any bug fixes or small features; just the "major" things.

Wow. This got pretty off topic fast.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jan 2012 00:06 Edited at: 8th Jan 2012 00:12
It depends on what you want to do, I mean yes, there are limits, but things like Dark Basic are still incredibly flexible.

Everything I've seen you produce in Visual Studio can be done in Dark Basic Pro, granted you'd need a GUI plugin, but there's a lot of plugins out there that extend the usefulness of DBP. In AppGameKit, creating an interface isn't that difficult, because you have commands for creating the interface, just like you do in Visual Basic, except this interface can be clicked on, but it also can be pushed on a touch screen. Though you don't get a GUI editor like you do in Visual Basic, unless of course one has been coded since I last played with it, which is possible.

If you've got a copy of Dark Basic Pro and are concerned about whether AppGameKit is worth the money, start playing with it. I'll give my examples in DBP as I use it and I want to encourage you to give it a go, as you sound interested. Yes, it has bugs, but so does everybody program and over the years it has become rather polished.

Whilst it is simpler to use, but I wouldn't say it's that limited. For examples of what has been done in DBP - FPS Creator was programmed in Dark Basic Pro, the Star Wraith video game series was created in it, this map editor was coded in DBP without the use of Dark Lights, for graphical capabilities check out this video (it's a landscape editor, but look at the light effects achieved), here is a MIDI creator somebody made check out the Work In Progress and Program Announcement sections to see what members here are doing with it. Obviously we can't show you everything it can do, because if we could, then it would be too limited, but hopefully those examples should show you what people are doing with it. Also, check out the AppGameKit section to see what people are doing there.

Of course to achieve the greater results you need to know what you're doing and to be realistic about what you can achieve, but then it's exactly same is for C++ and VB. As far as I've seen, for me at least, jumping to C++ of Visual Basic is less preferable and yes, I've tried it, it's just too much work to get it to do the same thing, yes there are advantages, but I don't see me using them.

However, what is it you want out of a program? I think that's the most important question to ask, because then we'd be able to tell you if AppGameKit or DBP is suited to what you want. Based on your previous creations, DBP will work and AppGameKit could be used to create the mobile friendly equivalent (obviously with a more suitable GUI).

How about this for a challenge? Open up your copy of Dark Basic Pro and try to learn to make a simple game in it or download the trial of the App Game Kit and do the same. I think the best way to evaluate a product is to try it. Perhaps see if you can recreate your Ant Farm game, just don't use the GUI plugin for DBP, generally using 'forms' like in Visual Basic or the Windows GUI in a game can make it look tacky and the GUI plugin is design more for applications than games.

If you want help or advice using DBP or AppGameKit, then obvious their respective forums will be perfect for helping your learn them and quickly. At least I've always found this forum to be fantastic at helping fix or improve code.

old_School
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Posted: 8th Jan 2012 01:10 Edited at: 8th Jan 2012 01:14
Thank you Yoda this helped me understand it a lot better. Thank you.

Edit:
Sorry Sepp did not see your reponse. Thanks for the info as well. Very helpful but I think Ill stick with VB for now. The big advantage for me using Microsoft is being able to ask Microsoft questions on MSDN and others in the field. DB AppGameKit sounds ok but fo rme I think I would run into a problem when I have questions and I cant put DB on a resume. But I do see now how it could be useful. Both sides though seem to have good advantages.
Jimpo
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Posted: 8th Jan 2012 21:55
Quote: "DB AppGameKit sounds ok but fo rme I think I would run into a problem when I have questions"

This whole forum is dedicated to answering questions!

Quote: "I cant put DB on a resume"

I put DBPro on my resume! And it shouldn't really matter, cause aren't you self employed?

If you want to make games, I strongly recommend trying DBpro over Visual Basic.

BMacZero
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Joined: 30th Dec 2005
Location: E:/ NA / USA
Posted: 8th Jan 2012 22:08
Quote: "I put DBPro on my resume! And it shouldn't really matter, cause aren't you self employed?"

I do as well. Most game companies use C-variants and they would like to hire people who have knowledge of C or C++, but if you know and can list a variety of languages, that says that you can learn new ones easily. And if you've made an actual game, that helps a good deal regardless of what language you used.

Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 9th Jan 2012 00:10
Pretty much what Jimpo and BMacZero have said. Whilst a company might not have you using DBP or AppGameKit they will like the fact you're versatile and adaptable. If you throw in Dark GDK and AppGameKit in C++ then you're showing you're capable of using an SDK to develop a piece of software...or you can use an SDK that isn't featured on the TGC website, nobody says you have to use their tools, but of course there's a slight bias in recommendations here given this is the TGC forums.

Jeku
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 9th Jan 2012 09:05
@old_school - And once again, ignoring all those with valid rebuttals to your statements


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group

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