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Geek Culture / Is it worth it? (Adobe)

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Neuro Fuzzy
17
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Joined: 11th Jun 2007
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Posted: 9th Feb 2012 03:26
I'm starting to do web development and design, and... it's making me want to get the Adobe suite.

Flash is the standard for online interactive stuff, and I really don't have any utilities for drawing graphics (I've got gimp though).

Plus, after failing at blender and other open source video editing tools, I've just been using windows movie maker to edit videos. It's horrible!

I can't decide if it's worth it or not. The three things I want are:

Photoshop for web design & drawing
Flash Professional and Flash Builder for a) drawing and b) coding
after effects for video editing

Since as far as I can tell, no single student version package covers these three, I'd have to get the $900 thing. I'd have to save up for it, and the only way I'd buy it is if I can earn the money back.

So: Worth it or not?

Kezzla
16
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Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 9th Feb 2012 03:42
for web design and drawing I would use adobe elements.
it came bundled with my 200 dollar wacom tablet and for web developement and drawing it is perfect, the only real thing i can see that is missing from the pro version is cmyk color scheme, but thats just for printing anyway, and im sure you can get a freeware program that can convert it for you.

for video editing i would consider sony vegas software
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegassoftware
sony vegas pro is excellent for video and audio work and you can produce proffesional results.
vegas pro is 600 but there are cheaper alternatives depending on your needs.

so far as flash goes, i dont really know, i havnt used flash for years.

so far as worth it or not, i dont know, but these options knock the pricetag down a lot.

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
zenassem
22
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Joined: 10th Mar 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 9th Feb 2012 04:07 Edited at: 9th Feb 2012 04:40
For my needs I get by with Gimp, Paint.net, & inkscape (all free)
Paint.Net http://www.getpaint.net/download.html

I know you haven't had luck with opensource,, buthave you tried something like Aviary
http://www.aviary.com/

For other aspects of Adobe I would at least try... (Not sure if there are newer apps that supersede these).

Adobe Dreamweaver -> Kompozer http://kompozer.net/
Adobe Flash -> Synfig Studio http://www.synfig.org/cms/
Adobe After Effects -> Jahshaka http://www.jahshaka.org/
Adobe Premier Pro -> VirtualDub http://virtualdub.sourceforge.net/
Adobe Illustrator -> Inkscape http://inkscape.org/download/
Adobe Encore DVD -> DVD Styler http://www.dvdstyler.org/en/downloads
Adobe Soundbooth -> Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows
Adobe Acrobat -> PDFCreator http://www.pdfforge.org/download
Adobe InDesign -> Scribus http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus

[other]
~~~~~~~~~
Autodesk Combustion -> Wax http://www.debugmode.com/wax/

a few years ago I dabbled with Microsoft's Silverlight... I never got good at it,, but it's worth mentioning
http://www.silverlight.net/
http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/


imho,, you should be able to make the money (if you still wish to have Adobe CS) utilizing the above.

~ZENassem
Slayer267
14
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Joined: 6th Sep 2010
Location: Non of your beez wax
Posted: 9th Feb 2012 04:23
Idk about you but I have Photoshop and aftereffects. They are both amazing! Get them!

THE CARNAGE PRODUCTIONS WEBSITE IS NOW UP!

www.Carnageproduct.webs.com
That Guy John
15
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Joined: 30th Apr 2010
Location: United States
Posted: 9th Feb 2012 08:14
Quote: "Flash is the standard for online interactive stuff"

Keep reading about web development... what I am saying is, NO.

You need to ask yourself.. what are your current capabilities and if you splurged the money on the adobe suite would you even know what to do with it?

Honestly, I would start out with PS elements and premier elments. Way cheaper and you will actually be able to use them.

If you are an IT student or anything within the computer science range, try signing up for the DreamSpark program. If you get approved, you will get Microsoft Expression Studio for free among other things.

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
The Wilderbeast
19
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Joined: 14th Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posted: 9th Feb 2012 08:51
Quote: "Flash is the standard for online interactive stuff"

Flash is now solely for the desktop/laptop domain - Apple never adopted flash with their iOS devices, and Android has just dropped flash in their Chrome for Android.

HTML5+JS is the future, though I'm afraid I can't recommend you any content authoring tools for it.

Chris Tate
DBPro Master
16
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Location: London, England
Posted: 9th Feb 2012 19:16 Edited at: 9th Feb 2012 19:23
Adobe software is really good; remember that they obtained and improved Macromedia software packages aswell. You do not need to buy them all, I recommend buying one.

The beauty of using Adobe software is that there is alot of support, tutorials, and in particular ready made templates, plugins and shaders. Their software is also scriptable, so if required you can automate stuff.

I'd pick one of the top packages for the whole job.

Consider that InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Flash and to an extent After Effects can ALL make a websites on their own!!!

The difference is the type of website you can make.

(Note that I work in the industry part time, and used to work for a design firm)

Illustrator: Slice based webpages with lots of image work. It also has dynamic data variables and there are some JS/VB scripts you can download for Illustrator to automate certain tasks ( As with most of their software)

Illustrator can also export SWF (Flash files) by using layers as frames. The newer versions have video creation now.

Advantages: The very best at vector art based websites (IMO). You can also object orientate with photoshop files or other image formats. I'd settle for Illustrator all the way if you are going for the arty look. You also get web optimization tools.

Disadvantage: One page at a time. No code editor. No inbuilt FTP file uploader. No dynamic content facilities.

Photoshop: Similar to illustrator in terms of what kind of website it exports; only you sacrafice Illustrators vector tools for the advanced photo manipulation tools in photoshop. Photoshop is a house hold name for a good reason; "it can do anything", you can make one face look like another, you can make a elephant look like an anteater!

Advantages: Just check out Bertmonroy's stuff. Nuff said!

Disadvantages: Difficult to create large websites with. Organizing lots of elements requires extensive skill and care. No FTP.

Dreamweaver: This the one to get if you want to create dynamic websites; it is half page designer half programming tool. It also comes with an FTP uploader, which can also synchronize and features check in check out operations like SVN. This is a good tool for collaboration, but it features very basic graphic design tools. I've used it since version 3, its a bit laggy these days but I use it for websites, XML and for printing dynamic reports (if I could not do easily in Excel)

Advantages: There is no other one to pick if you want to work with CSS, Javascript, PHP etc. Forget the other tools if you want to create forums, complex forms and advanced controls. You can download Notepad++ to do the code for Photoshop/Illustrator; but having the FTP automatically save changes to code directly on your site is essential for collaboration and speed of dynamic content production. This is standard in DW.

Disadvantages:You'd need to outsource graphics if you want to make a nice looking website. MS Word has more drawing tools than Dreamweaver; put it that way.

InDesign: Illustrator with pages, but with less artistic tools. If you are designing magazines for print and web; pick this tool because you can harmonize your sites and print work more easily. It has some hyperlink tools and dynamic variables to make life easier. The best part about this tool is background pages (parent pages); one page can use the content from another; this is vital if you are doing multipaged content. In illustrator you would have to place a reference to another document, with InDesign you can reference pages & documents, and photoshop files, images, illustrator files and by no means least PDF files.

Advantages:More artistic than dreamweaver and good for print. You can deal with 1000s of elements and pages all organized into pages, layers and styles. Illustrator only has one page per document. InDesign has more paragraph and text tools.

Disadvantages:No FTP, no code editor. Drawing tools are simple compared to Illustrator drawing tools.

After Effects:Photoshop with animation. Flash with pixel shaders. This is good for cinematic websites. Good for creating websites for movie trailers and stuff. It is uncommon to use this tool because it is used for large production compaigns, but it is worth a mention. I recommend this OVER Adobe Premiere for the internet; it is more creative. Premiere is more for mixing video , whereas you'd be using more special effects than video mixing when creating cinematic websites.

I won't talk about advantages and disadvantages for this one because it is simply the tool specifically for motion picture with special effects that you can render to Flash SWF files.

Flash I prefer Silverlight for programming, I'd rather use C# or Visual Basic over Action Script any day every day. Use Flash ONLY if you want to specialize in banners, animations and online adverts. Flash interfaces are over the top for average customers, unless you are 2Advanced Studios.

Advantages:Illustrator with animation frames and action script; it even has some of Photoshops filters. If you are into artistic websites with animation then choose Flash.

Disadvantages:You can build dynamic websites (forums and forms etc) with flash using action script; but the support is not as good as with HTML.

Silverlight+Expression BlendEasier to create dynamic content (forums, complex applications and games) than Flash; it is just a newer technology and thus less people use it. I prefer Flash over Expression Blend for drawing. Expression Blend is more programming based than drawing based; there are not alot of drawing tools in it.

Advantages:Better apps than Flash more easily; unless you are an Action Script expert. You can use it for free using Web Developer Express; but not Expression Blend. You get to use some of the .NET Framework as well. Silverlight apps can easily be converted into Windows Presentation Apps using Visual Studio. If you like ASP, there are some automatic ASP integration tools available. You can put Silverlight apps behind HTML text[/b]

Disadvantages:Expression blend is a bit thin on the drawing tool side. Less popular, so some people might not want you to make their website in silverlight. I think; not 100%, that you are forced to use anti-aliased text, they may have fixed this. Sometimes anti-aliased text is not good. Flash can use both forms of text[/b]

Blender, GIMP and the tools that Zenassem pointed out can be used to make up for missing features, but I'd get at least one Adobe package; it does not even have to be new; even Illustrator 10 (CS-1) and Photoshop 6 can do some really cool stuff!

lazerus
17
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Posted: 9th Feb 2012 19:18
Aye flash is being dropped everywhere for html-5

So don't bother with it.

Portfolio; Arthiccup.com
Lazerus Reborn on Polycount and a few other places.
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 11th Feb 2012 11:47
woah, awesome links & lists.

To the flash web development stuff: I've seen a ton of pages (mostly band & web designer or artsy pages) based entirely off flash, and no html5/js pages with the same amount of interactivity. Maybe I should just stick to java applets?

Also... for web html5 applications, the source code is readable, right?

I am in the dreamspark program, so I'll check out the expression studio (can't believe I didn't think of it!) All I really need is a thing for web design html+CSS. I keep getting annoyed because stuff won't center or align right until I add some css attribute that to me seems obscure and unrelated.

Chris Tate
DBPro Master
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Location: London, England
Posted: 12th Feb 2012 23:04 Edited at: 12th Feb 2012 23:04
Quote: "Also... for web html5 applications, the source code is readable, right? "


You can hide your javascript in a protected directory and link to it from your HTML page. You can also consider server side code which is invisible to the visitors

Quote: "To the flash web development stuff: I've seen a ton of pages (mostly band & web designer or artsy pages) based entirely off flash, and no html5/js pages with the same amount of interactivity.tor."


Due to the age of Flash, it is still the most popular.

Quote: " 85% of the most-visited web sites use Flash,
75% of web video is viewed using the Flash Player,
98% of enterprises rely on the Flash Player, and
70% of web games are made in Flash.[8]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_HTML5_and_Flash

But alot of people use IPhones (Not me, but alot of people...)

Quote: "Apple has been promoting HTML5 as an alternative to Flash for video and other content on the iOS, citing performance reasons for not allowing the Flash runtime to be installed on iOS.[4][24] Flash as a runtime is not available on Apple's iOS devices: iPhone, iPod touch and iPad[24] but can be compiled as a native iOS application through Adobe's iOS packager in Flash CS5 Professional. According to Adobe Labs, Adobe's iOS Packager “offers Flash developers a fast and efficient method to reuse existing code from ActionScript 3 projects to deliver native applications on iOS devices”."


Daniel TGC
Retired Moderator
18
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 06:01
The only adobe product I've not been able to replace with an opensource alternative is Adobe after effects.

But in my experience, Adobe software is not only bloated, but slow and often needlessly complicated. So you need good hardware to run most of it's applications.

For 3D art I use Blender 3D, and for 2D art I use GIMP 2.6 or Phierha. Phierha is great if you ever want to do manga or anime, or even just pixel art.

For website development I either use a CMS like Fork-CMS or Joomla, perhaps even Presta shop if I want to build an eCommerce site(see my new work in progess site, www.teachyourselfstuff.com) or I just use notepad++ it's all code anyway so I've never seen any point in dreamweaver myself.

Flash I don't bother with, if I want an animation I'd rather upload it to youtube and embed it into the site.

So no, I'd never shell out thousands for adobe software. The most I'll do is take a subscription out on After effects for £75 a month and then dump it when I don't need it anymore.
Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 13th Feb 2012 11:28
I'm no major fan of Photoshop, but I'm even less of a fan of Gimp. Personally, I like PaintShopPro9 - I have Photoshop on my mac, but really I use PSP9 on the PC for everything... I'd say that it has just the right tools without being bloated, maybe a bit like PhotoshopCS - back before Photoshop got rediculously bloated.

I would say also that for PDF handling, Adobe Acrobat is second to none... but the whole thing is too expensive, just like all Adobe software - it's difficult to justify paying for features that 99% of users won't ever benefit from. I mean, did we really need 3D model painting in Photoshop, let alone in it's very badly implimented state. It's like that has been bolted on to keep up with the other packages, I hate it, it's practically useless and really it could have been quite a useful addition, instead of mindless bloat.

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
bitJericho
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Location: United States
Posted: 13th Feb 2012 12:58
Quote: "You can hide your javascript in a protected directory and link to it from your HTML page. You can also consider server side code which is invisible to the visitors"


Not really, if it needs to be downloaded by the client it can be viewed. The best solution is to just use a javascript compiler that obfuscates the code but also speeds up downloading and running it.

http://code.google.com/closure/compiler/

RUCCUS
20
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Location: Canada
Posted: 13th Feb 2012 20:31
The only reason you'll need Photoshop over something like The Gimp is if you're getting into the more advanced aspects that Photoshop has to offer, primarily the new features in CS5. Things like Content-Aware operations, 3D model layers, etc. If you're really just starting to get your hands dirty, Id advise you to go with The Gimp for now until you feel you need the more advanced features Photoshop has to offer (which 99% of the time you wont, they'll just save you time).

Dreamweaver is certainly the route Id go if you're planning on doing a lot of web design, Ive been using it for years with no complaints. However another option to consider is Flash Catalyst by Adobe. It works in unison with all of Adobe's products and makes it very easy to get a flash-based site up and running, it has a lot of unique features that automatically implement great looking navigation and animation into your website. However as many have said, Flash is dying, and quickly. The fact that most websites out there us Flash has nothing to do with the fact that it will be extinct soon. If a fully functional, cost-effective electric car came out, gas would die out regardless of whether or not the majority of people in the world were using gas. The same goes for Flash, mobile-compliant websites are a must-have now and Flash just doesn't make it for that single reason.

If you're looking to do 3D work, I would recommend starting with Wings3D to get used to the workflow, and then if you've got the money down the road purchase a student copy of Maya. Its my pipeline of choice for sure. Blender is good if you can pick it up, but it tends to scare a lot of people away from going over the learning curve. I've got a Bachelors in Computer Animation and Ive never touched Blender once.

InDesign is great at what it does, but again, if you're looking for the cost effective route you can get a lot of the stuff you would do in inDesign done in Photoshop or The Gimp and a simple PDF export.

After Effects is a must have in my life, Ive tried all of the mainstream video editors / compositors out there and nothing really matches up to AE. If you're thinking you'll need to do a lot of video editing, bite the bullet and get After Effects, and while you're at it purchase the Video CoPilot plugins off of their site, they're awesome.

At any rate, I use pretty much the entire Adobe Creative Suite every week, but I am in charge of all of the graphic work along with programming for the iOS app Im working on so its a necessity for me. If you're going to be specializing in a certain field, you wont need the entire suite.

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