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Geek Culture / Is Windows 7 Ruining Laptop Batteries?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 03:41 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 03:43
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So lately there have been some rumors and suspicions going around lately that windows 7 has been destroying laptop batteries, and i have been experiencing it myself lately. Normally, a Li-Po battery should last a good 2 to 3 years while still maintaining above 80% original capacity. Also, they tend to slowly and gradually lose capacity. i got my laptop christmas of 2009. The battery was absolutely fine, running up to full capacity and working great in general, but just about a month after the warranty expired, the battery's capacity suddenly dropped, and it went from being able to hold well over 5 hour's worth of charge to about 5 minutes. So, about a year ago i got a new battery delivered to me. Same exact story with this new battery! It worked great, then SUDDENLY dropped almost all capacity, and now my power cord is my computer's life support. Now i need to give my computer another organ transplant...


Either way, my suspicion comes from the fact that not only are the batteries lasting one year, not two or three as they are supposed to, but they are CONSISTENTLY lasting one year. On top of that, the battery is fine then SUDDENLY drops dead, unlike a normal battery. Upon research, others have the same issue. My guess is that Microsoft is under some sort of contract with HP (it only does this on HP laptops. Installing XP solves the issue. as far as i know) to say the battery is worse than it is, forcing the user to buy more batteries, giving HP money, some of it in return going to Microsoft. Again, that is my guess but, i dunno. Also, the fan speed increases when i unplug, and goes back down when i plug the computer in.

Of course, as some of you may have noticed in my past threads about batteries, in general i dont have good luck with batteries...

What do you all think about that?? Would Microsoftz do such a thing?

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 03:58
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That actually explains why my battery in my HP laptop died suddenly within a year and a half of purchasing it.

But I don't think it's a conspiracy with HP and Microsoft. The problem may actually lie within HP's battery engineering and may not be solely Windows 7's fault. But who knows, every OS has its issues with different hardware.

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DJ Almix
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 04:21
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This is actually pretty believable, as my laptop can not nearly hold the charge it used to...


I am not a fan of MLP , but that's just me
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heyufool1
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 04:24 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 04:25
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Quote: "My guess is that Microsoft is under some sort of contract with HP...to say the battery is worse than it is"

I don't know much about fair practices or whatever but that sounds illegal. It would be like nutritional info saying there is 0 calories in a chocolate bar when there is really 200.

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"

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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 04:29
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I am having a hard time connecting HP to Microsoft here...

I never liked HP laptops the build quality was shoddy

I prefer Toshiba [Albeit the more pricey ones]

As you clearly outlined it is ONLY A HP ISSUE so why add MS into the mix?

[Someone had too much jelly didn't they? ]

also it though already outlined is a HP thing... could also be that you do not manage the charging so well... you should always let it go flat I am told... but then that's an old school mobile phone story

I suppose... buy a new lappy?

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 05:45 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 05:53
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You guys may be right, it could just be HP but it seems as if XP fixes le' problemo! Havent tried it myself because windows 7 is otherwise awesome...

Quote: "I don't know much about fair practices or whatever but that sounds illegal."
Im not sure, i dont think they ever really stated the battery life on the laptop, and the person doesnt have to buy a new battery or even use the laptop for that matter so i dont see why it would be illegal... I wouldnt be surprised though if it was!

Quote: "Someone had too much jelly didn't they?"
Yeah, that would a been me... But hey, dont blame me the stuff tastes so darn good!!


Quote: "could also be that you do not manage the charging so well... you should always let it go flat I am told... but then that's an old school mobile phone story"
haha yes i think that is an old mobile phone thing! Lithium ions shouldnt be effected by charging, though it is good to do at least one full charge-discharge cycle per month...




Edit:

Actually yah, it may be just HP! After all, this here laptop who's buttons im pressing now doesnt impress me with its build quality.

Or perhaps it is just my bad luck with batteries! Let's see, i have had battery issues with the following items: ipod shuffle, ipod touch, laptop, cameras, water carbonater (yes, it uses batteries too), among many others... My cellphone battery though has been absolutely exceptional! It is almost three years old and the charge on the thing still lasts up to a month between charges, granted it's not a smartphone nor do i use it to much but still!

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Oolite
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 06:42
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Really? Well I heard that macs cause bone deterioration and infertility if you are within a 5 mile radius of one...


The matter of a fact is this, battery technology hasn't really improved on the same level as the computers have. Battery life also depends on how you use it. I'm pretty sure that manufacturers recommend only using your laptop under battery power when you need to, along with charging to 100% and then removing it from charge. The total life of your battery is obviously going to depend on your usage aswell, i'm sure my girlfriends laptop battery is going to last a lot longer than mine because she only uses it for around an hour a day whilst I used mine for 6-7.

Think of this, why would any company want to ruin part of their product? It's detrimental to business and would only help to give whatever company a bad name. Would you buy an inferior product a second time?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 06:48 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 09:40
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Well I always rip the battery out when I use a laptop and of course power down when inserting when on the move... you can even go into hibernate mode [not sleep lol] and remove the power and insert battery... but be quick

but yeah well

Quote: "Would you buy an inferior product a second time? "


Unfortunately... product Design defeats this exact issue... some people become so attached to a product they do not care much for silly yet obvious flaws

[points at Macs and other manufacturers in general - but mainly Macs lol]

To be frank I only started to dislike Macs because of their bold yet BS claim to NATIVELY INSTALL WINDOWS what a load of garbage

EDIT

Bolded

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 08:03
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Both above posts agreed to

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 09:22
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My old HP laptop ran Ubuntu only, and the battery broke after less than a year. HP batteries are known to blow up, or at least not to be reliable.

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-Notebook-PC-Questions/BEWARE-of-old-batteries-on-your-HP-laptops-Just-had-an-explosion/td-p/230710
http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Other-Notebook-PC-Questions/HP-battery-exploded-Pavilion-dv2699ea-WARNING/td-p/438801
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/31/hp_laptop_battery_recall/

However let me state that my ACER laptop (Win7) has lasted well over a year now, and I still have around 4 hours of battery life.

TheComet


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 12:52
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Your battery will deteriorate if you over charge it, admittedly I've overcharged mine, hence after a year it's about 80% of its original capacity. Though I've now decided to do the sensible thing and remove my battery if I'm near a power source and using my laptop for hours, like programming stuff in my bedroom.

I use a Lenovo ThinkPad, I've found it to be pretty reliable and it comes with tools to keep an eye on my laptop's health, which is always a bonus. But I wouldn't suggest that it's Windows 7 that's causing the deterioration, I mean I have left my power cable in over night on a few occasions without realising it until the next morning and have played games with it in and then forgetting to unplug it when the battery is full. It's that kind of thing that'll ruin your battery.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 14:59
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Laptops regulate power to the batteries. There is no solution to your battery problems. Batteries don't last forever. Simple solution is to just use your laptop however you want and stop worrying about the battery

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TheComet
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 15:37
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Quote: "Your battery will deteriorate if you over charge it, admittedly I've overcharged mine, hence after a year it's about 80% of its original capacity. Though I've now decided to do the sensible thing and remove my battery if I'm near a power source and using my laptop for hours, like programming stuff in my bedroom. "


The charging circuitry for a battery makes it impossible to over charge it. In fact, the Lithium-Ion batteries will most definately explode if you even slightly pump too much juice into them.

It's perfectly safe to leave your laptop plugged in the wall. The laptop's power draw will be from the plug, and not from the battery when it's plugged in.

TheComet


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zenassem
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 15:39
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I'm not sure about Laptop Batteries... (Mine was already dead after Vista). But,, windows 7 is killing my hard-drive on my Acer Aspire. I can't figure it out,, and I've followed every possible piece of advice I could find, from turning off indexing and restore, malware/virus scans, intel drivers, to no avail. I've seen a large amount of consumers with my same issue. My HD activity light goes solid (not cpu usage/ not memory) and locks me up a few times an hour. It just chugs away and remains solid for a minute or two. It's usually when I am browsing online especially anything with flash... but it's not just limited to that. I have never had this issue prior, be it Vista, Ubuntu... I'm at a complete loss.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 15:58
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Quote: "The charging circuitry for a battery makes it impossible to over charge it. In fact, the Lithium-Ion batteries will most definately explode if you even slightly pump too much juice into them.

It's perfectly safe to leave your laptop plugged in the wall. The laptop's power draw will be from the plug, and not from the battery when it's plugged in.

TheComet"


I guess I've made the wrong assumptions, I assumed the reason it took so quick for my Acer battery to die was because I left it plugged in all the time and figured that's why my ThinkPad battery is down to about 80%.

Quote: " But,, windows 7 is killing my hard-drive on my Acer Aspire. I can't figure it out,, and I've followed every possible piece of advice I could find, from turning off indexing and restore, malware/virus scans, intel drivers, to no avail."


Could it be that you're using an Acer laptop? It's just ever since owning an Acer laptop I seem to hear people keep mentioning problems surrounding their Acer laptop. Though given its not happened prior to using Windows 7, then there's the possibility Windows 7 is doing something different that your Acer doesn't like. Unfortunately, I'm not tech savvy enough to give a proper answer(see above comment for evidence).


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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 17:46
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sounds like crapware on it to me.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 18:15
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Jerico is right laptops come with all sorts of crap...

Also turn off SuperFetch... and shadow copy services... sounds like you are using an old hdd possible 4200 rpm as well...

I suggest an upgrade

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zenassem
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 18:44 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 19:03
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It could be an Acer + combonitation and Power issue,, but I have found the same issue across other mfrs that have specific Intel storage chipset.

Not sure if the crapware was in reference to my issue,, but there is little to no crapware on my acer. This was a purchased install of windows 7 not an OEM load (so no Acer specific software), I have run pcdecrapifier, as well as CCleaner, malwarebytes, spybot S&D, hijackthis!, among a few scanners. All look good.

The issue seems to come down to a combination of Win7, Intel Storage chipset, and possibly flash intense sites (they seem to trigger the HD issue more often than anything else, eg. Youtube, FB etc.) I've updated drivers, tried methods for turning off win7 features. A search for win7 HD activity solid... shows the magnitude of the problem. I've tried going through some advanced statistics from sysinternals suite (includes a more advanced taskmanager, with live diag and history),, but haven't been able to pin this one down yet.

This person kind of nails an explanation of my issue
Quote: "I too seem to have the exact same problem. I'm running Win7 build 7100 on my laptop. Everything installed smoothly. Every now and then, especially -but not exclusively- when I'm browing the Web with Firefox, the active application will stop responding and the HDD led will come on and stay on. However no actual disk activity seems to be happening. For a few seconds the rest of the system seems responsive but eventually everything will freeze leaving me with only the mouse to move around. I wait a few minutes, then everything comes back on and continues to work normally.
"


So I may have misspoke on the "Chugging away" because although the light is solidly lit for HD activity, nothing seems to be going on EXCEPT... As I am about to regain control from the lock/freeze actual HD activity happens, and the light begins flashing eventually returning normal op. This can happen (depending on what I am doing Internet, though not exclusive to having a browser open (Ie, Firefox, Chrome) from every 5-10 minutes (usually 5 when on internet) to a minimum of 3 times an hour. Never had this problem before, and it began right after a clean install of win 7 home premium.

EDIT
New research spurred on by this thread has led me to people solving my particular issue by setting Advance Power Manager setting to Maximum performance. I have just done so, and will update my findings within the hour. So perhaps this is actually related to the original Post, and windows 7 power monitoring handling issues???

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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 19:04 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 19:05
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interesting. My initial guess would be a bad chipset driver. Locate the chipset driver from intel's site and install it and see what happens, or have you tried that?

Quote: "Advance Power Manager setting to Maximum performance"


Oh, a mystery. What type of processor, is it the i series intel?

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zenassem
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 19:13 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 23:37
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Here are my Acer 5920G Specs. With regard to the intel Storage drivers.. this as been somewhat confusing... Intel has changed the name of their entire technology... making references from tech forums and links obsolete. Even links/and names from my laptop support area with Acer.

Quote: "
Processor ~ Intel® Centrino® Duo mobile processor technology, featuring
Intel® Core™2 Duo mobile processor T7700 (4 MB L2 cache, 2.4 GHz, 800 MHz FSB)

Core Logic Chipset ~ Mobile Intel® GM965 Express

Storage Controllers ~ Intel(R) ICH8M SATA AHCI Controller - 2829
Intel(R) ICH8M Ultra ATA Storage Controllers - 2850
"


Interesting!!! ~ The 2829 has a driver date of 6/8/2010 provided by Intel,, while the 2850 6/21/2006 provided by Microsoft???

Running the Intel Driver Update Utility btw, computer hasn't locked since power since power setting change

Result... The Intel Driver Update Utility didn't report seeing the controllers at all.

Using Drivermax to get these updates ~ Manual searching (although I would prefer it) is frustrating with these low-level device drivers.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So far so good as my issue seems to be resolved! Honestly I'm not sure the drivers had as much to do it with it as changing the power scheme to high performance. That was the first thing I did, and the problem has gone away since. Other things I did.

Updated the controller drivers
There was a flash update

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 01:10
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Quote: "Laptops regulate power to the batteries. There is no solution to your battery problems. Batteries don't last forever. Simple solution is to just use your laptop however you want and stop worrying about the battery"
Haha yah i knew all that already!

Yah, now im totally convinced it's just HP!

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 05:10
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I got my new HP laptop this Christmas and I'm already noticing a drop on battery life since then. I really don't know what it is though.
AMD 3410MX Quad Core
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(Sorry just had to show it off here It's the most powerful computer I've ever had ^_^)

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Indicium
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 13:41
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If I were concerned about battery life, I'd take the battery out when I'm just sitting at the desk, and put it in when it's needed.

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TheComet
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 15:27
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It's perfectly safe to leave your laptop plugged in the wall. The laptop's power draw will be from the plug, and not from the battery when it's plugged in.

TheComet


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zenassem
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 18:53 Edited at: 29th Feb 2012 18:57
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Well going on 2 days now,, and my HD activity is back to normal, and no lockups or freezes. Not sure which thing I did actually fixed it... but thanks to Dark basic dude 79 for posting this thread, which got me motivated in looking into the issue again. It's been months that I have been dealing with it. So frustrating =)

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Indicium
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 18:56
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Quote: " The laptop's power draw will be from the plug"


If this is true, how, when the power supply is removed, does the laptop remain turned on? There MUST be some power being drawn from the battery.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th Feb 2012 20:28
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The battery is likely held on a standby mode, or is in parralel with the mains supply. That way, mains supply is distributed to both the board, and the battery for charging. When mains supply is removed, only the battery remains, and the new potential difference means it takes over power supply instantly.

I think people mean that the Li-Ion design of batteries have issues with charging itself, not use. At least, that seems to be what the various different sides on this argument are fussing over.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 06:10
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CG and Indi... try this... boot up into your laptops bios without the battery present and rip the power cord out... see how long it keeps the screen and hdd spinning for... theres about 500ms delay I find often which is plenty to kick the battery into motion

just my observation

[I said boot into bios in order to not risk your OS getting annoyed at you...]

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 1st Mar 2012 07:43
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Didnt know that was possible! You laptop must have some monstrous capacitor in its power supply to stay on for that long haha!

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